Someone needs to spell it out for you...

[RedPeppers]

It's not like Brawl where anyone can win. It depends solely on luck and who happens to have the better team in that situation.

"Depends solely on luck"? Have you ever battled competitvely? Seriously there is a crapload of skill involved(building a team being one of those).

 

[jigglyppuff8]

Actually, to win at brawl, the only things you need to know how to move your character selector to Meta Knight, press A, and spam B. [/sarcasm]
BTW: Team building and prediction are basically the only strategies in Pokemon. The rest is mindgaming your opponent to a position for sweeping or utter stalling... I think...

 

[zrky]

Answers here are so obvious that we over think things.

don't you hate it when things are so easy they are actually hard

 

[StrayakaKraiz]

That was the answer.

Now how do you NOT get hit in pokemon(it IS possible, and don't say something stupid like brightpowder, shedinja, or Sand Veil)?

Edit: There is a point to this that will come eventually.

If you use a move such as fly, dive, bounce, etc., and make sure it knocks out your opponent before they can attack you. Or you can use a quick, accurate OHKO move to keep your opponent from attacking.

 

[jigglyppuff8]

Moves like Fly or Dig are considered "crap" because they give your opponent a free turn to switch out to a counter. Same with Hyper Beam and Skull Bash(only exceptions are Adaptability Porygon-Z with Hyper Beam, and Solarbeam during Sunny day). Also, OHKO moves like Guillotine and Horn drill are banned from standard competitive play, due to their cheapness and dependence on luck. There is no such thing as "a more accurate OHKO move", if it isn't a OHKO move, a Pokemon can take less than 100% damage.

 

[Deleted member]

**** you guys. Flymence FTW.

 

[PD4FR]

"Depends solely on luck"? Have you ever battled competitvely? Seriously there is a crapload of skill involved(building a team being one of those).

I have played the games for years, so I know what I'm talking about. The only competitive part is who has the better team, not more skill.By luck, I meant critical hits can turn the tide in battle. All it is is luck and who has spent more time figuring out and acquiring the better team.

Please try to think about what I am saying.

 

[Bowser King]

I have played the games for years, so I know what I'm talking about. The only competitive part is who has the better team, not more skill.By luck, I meant critical hits can turn the tide in battle. All it is is luck and who has spent more time figuring out and acquiring the better team.

Please try to think about what I am saying.

I'm not even a competitive player and know that it takes more skill then luck.
It's like saying brawl isn't competitive (No firus, don't say anything) because of tripping >_>

 

[PD4FR]

Is the only thing you heard me say "luck"?
It is MOSTLY who has the better team. Throw in a couple critical hits, and if they both play how they should, the one with the better team wins.

LOL, I'm arguing with a Smash Debater.

 

[RedPeppers]

Is the only thing you heard me say "luck"?
It is MOSTLY who has the better team. Throw in a couple critical hits, and if they both play how they should, the one with the better team wins.

LOL, I'm arguing with a Smash Debater.

I've always found smash debater a very overrated title, so many crazy posters have it. There are some very good debaters though (Firus, NJzFinest, Ulevo, derek haines, just to name a few)

Pokemon team building takes skill is what we're saying. Yes you can lose a match to haxy things happening, but you know that when you go into it. Plus 90-some % of battles aren't decided by hax. Anywho guys lets keep this on topic from now on okay?

 

[PD4FR]

LOL, I was just saying there is skill in the training, not so much in the actual competitive fights.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.

Haven't seen SS118 post in a while.

 

[ss118]

OK, I'll answer just because you mentioned me(please call me Articanus btw).

Guys, this is simple: Hit them first and hard. Anybody with a basic knowladge of sweepers should know this.

For simple answers like this, it takes the community a while to get it, don't you think?

All right, the next question has three parts:

1) What is "trapping" the opponent?
2) What can be used to ease the ability to "trap" the opponent?
3) Give me an example of "trapping" the opponent, assuming no immunities.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Perish Trapping: Mean Look + Perish Song

gg, next question

 

[PD4FR]

OK, I'll answer just because you mentioned me(please call me Articanus btw).



For simple answers like this, it takes the community a while to get it, don't you think?

All right, the next question has three parts:

1) What is "trapping" the opponent?
2) What can be used to ease the ability to "trap" the opponent?
3) Give me an example of "trapping" the opponent, assuming no immunities.

1. Keeping them from switching out.
2. High speed.
3. Have high speed and then use spider web, or another move like that.

 

[Firus]

There is a point to this that will come eventually.

No offense, but why don't you just...get to that point now?

I think the point of this thread is perfectly valid (despite the fact that I'm not all that competitive) and I understand why you'd want to stir up competitivity. But asking silly, simple questions isn't going to help that. If there's a point make it apparent, otherwise this thread shouldn't exist.

It's not like Brawl where anyone can win. It depends solely on luck and who happens to have the better team in that situation.

Wouldn't luck mean anyone can win?

And uh, *COUGHtrippingCOUGH*.

But yeah, critical hits do matter to an extent but there's a lot of skill and thought beyond building and training a team. This should be easy for competitive players, but knowing your type matchups is important. If you use Dark Pulse against Skuntank you're not doing a good job. And another thing is thinking about the appropriate move for the situation aside from that. Like if you're choosing between Shock Wave or Psychic on...say, Jigglypuff (as an example, because I happen to know Jigglypuff can learn both of those moves, even though you'd never actually use Jiggs competitively). On one hand, Psychic does 90 damage but let's say there's a Sandstorm and your opponent has Sand Veil (and let's also clarify that there's no type advantage/disadvantage either way). Shock Wave does 30 less damage but is guaranteed to hit. So you've got to decide which to use. Take a risk and possibly do more damage, or play it safe and do less?

The example probably wasn't necessary, point is, picking moves isn't always a matter of "I've got one move that's sensible to use, only thing that matters is luck."

don't you hate it when things are so easy they are actually hard

Haha, yeah. Like when someone asks you to define a simple word even though you know what it means, you just can't define it?

It's like saying brawl isn't competitive (No firus, don't say anything) because of tripping >_>

Aw...c'mon. You know it's not.

I've always found smash debater a very overrated title, so many crazy posters have it. There are some very good debaters though (Firus, NJzFinest, Ulevo, derek haines, just to name a few)

Yeah, it's probably due to the fact that just about anyone can get it now that essays aren't part of the submission process. Not that I'm complaining, because I understand why they removed the requirement, and also I got into the Debate Hall once you no longer needed to do something for it. But that's probably why.

By the way, thanks for the compliment. I really appreciate it.

 

[J-man24star]

OK, I'll answer just because you mentioned me(please call me Articanus btw).



For simple answers like this, it takes the community a while to get it, don't you think?

All right, the next question has three parts:

1) What is "trapping" the opponent?
2) What can be used to ease the ability to "trap" the opponent?
3) Give me an example of "trapping" the opponent, assuming no immunities.

Trapping the opponent is using Mean look or spider web to keep the opponent from switching out for a better matchup, some of the time, the Trapper will have baton pass to pass to a better matchup, an added spice is Toxic
ex: Crobat Traps Electivire with mean look, uses toxic to weaken Electivire, and passes to Gliscor, who uses EQ to destroy Electivire!

 

[PD4FR]

[/QUOTE]Wouldn't luck mean anyone can win?

And uh, *COUGHtrippingCOUGH*.

But yeah, critical hits do matter to an extent but there's a lot of skill and thought beyond building and training a team. This should be easy for competitive players, but knowing your type matchups is important. If you use Dark Pulse against Skuntank you're not doing a good job. And another thing is thinking about the appropriate move for the situation aside from that. Like if you're choosing between Shock Wave or Psychic on...say, Jigglypuff (as an example, because I happen to know Jigglypuff can learn both of those moves, even though you'd never actually use Jiggs competitively). On one hand, Psychic does 90 damage but let's say there's a Sandstorm and your opponent has Sand Veil (and let's also clarify that there's no type advantage/disadvantage either way). Shock Wave does 30 less damage but is guaranteed to hit. So you've got to decide which to use. Take a risk and possibly do more damage, or play it safe and do less?

[/QUOTE]

I guess you're right.

 

[PD4FR]

Was I right about the 1,2,3, Articanus?

Darn, double post.

 

[ss118]

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the moves Spider Web or Mean Look, so you can just stop guessing stuff like that now.

Ah **** it, I might as well give you the answer to part 1:

"Trapping is putting the opponent into the situation where they are guaranteed to lose a pokemon."

Now please answer the following questions:

1) What are the requirements to "trap" the opponent?
2) Give an example of "trapping".

 

[PD4FR]

I dunno, blackmailing it?

Someone else answer, LOL.

 

[Firus]

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the moves Spider Web or Mean Look, so you can just stop guessing stuff like that now.

Ah **** it, I might as well give you the answer to part 1:

"Trapping is putting the opponent into the situation where they are guaranteed to lose a pokemon."

Now please answer the following questions:

1) What are the requirements to "trap" the opponent?
2) Give an example of "trapping".

I tried to be a cheap*** and just Google the answer, but I can't find anything on it.

Answer, please? I'm actually kind of interested in hearing about this. I've never heard of it.

 

[Chagen46]

I tried to be a cheap*** and just Google the answer, but I can't find anything on it.

Answer, please? I'm actually kind of interested in hearing about this. I've never heard of it.

EDIT:Never mind

 

[RedPeppers]

OK, I'll answer just because you mentioned me(please call me Articanus btw).



For simple answers like this, it takes the community a while to get it, don't you think?

All right, the next question has three parts:

1) What is "trapping" the opponent?
2) What can be used to ease the ability to "trap" the opponent?
3) Give me an example of "trapping" the opponent, assuming no immunities.

Okay lets see:
1)Trapping the opponent is putting them at definite disadvantage, so that no matter what they do they will either: lose a poke, take significant damage, be inflicted with a status some other undesirable effect.
2) I'm gonna hazard a guess, and say entry hazards Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, Spikes. Being creative when team building is another way; if you come up with a unique effective set for a pokemon your opponent can become confused and taken advantage of.
3) Say.......... I can predict that my opponent is using Close Combat with an Hariyama, and I switch to a switch to my Starmie(which is packing Psychic btw) I can absorb the blow, and I have "trapped" my opponent into either switching and taking sigificant damage, or losing his Hariyama.

How's that?


Edit: You posted the answer to part 1 while I was posting, so I missed that. Glad to see I correct in the fundamentals though. Anywho I tried.

 

[Druggedfox]

bring as many CB rayquazas as possible without your opponent finding out?

I can't believe no one quoted this... that sentence was possibly the most correct thing said this whole thread with some of these replies that I'm reading

Now to answer Articanus' question, if that's the definition of trapping then consider this...

You have to be faster than everything on their team, able to ohko the pokemon that is currently in against you, and 2hko everything else before they can KO you. An example would be:

Let's assume Stealth Rock is out. You want to revenge kill a blissey so you send out infernape. He has a skarmory, vaporeon, and a gyrados in the rear. So you obviously CC the blissey. If he stays in, his blissey is guaranteed dead. If he switches in gyrados you can Stone edge, and with SR and max attack it is a guaranteed KO after the Close Combat. If he brings in vaporeon, you can just CC again. If he brings in Skarm, you just fire blast after hitting with CC. Thus you have effectively "trapped" your opponent. Unless the opponent switches in gyrados, then switches to vaporeon or something... it is an effective way to get a guaranteed KO on at least one thing. If your opponent switches in gyrados, they probably won't switch out immediately anyway >_> Not the perfect example, but I'm pretty sure that's the gist of what Articanus is getting at.

 

[sonofthesky]

1) What is "trapping" the opponent? Traping your foe, and forcing them to lose something. See chess.
2) What can be used to ease the ability to "trap" the opponent? Resistences? Magnet pull, stat moves.
3) Give me an example Magnetzone traps Skarmory. Skarmory dies from thunderbolt.

 

[M.K]

1) What is "trapping" the opponent?
2) What can be used to ease the ability to "trap" the opponent?
3) Give me an example of "trapping" the opponent, assuming no immunities.

1) Using a move or ability that effectively halts the transition from one Pokemon to another.

2) A move like Block or Mean Look, or abilities like Arena Trap and Magnet Pull help to trap an opponent.

3) Dugtrio vs. Pachirisu. If Dugtrio has the Arena Trap ability, Electvire is unable to switch out, and therefore can be easily sweeped by Dugtrio's EQ. If Dugtrio did NOT have the ability, then he could use a move like Sand Tomb to trap the opponent within the realm of weakness.

 

[ss118]

Obviously you two are right: the opponent's pokemon cannot switch and thus they are "Trapped", cannot switch to an appropriate counter. However, I was looking more for an answer like this one:

You have to be faster than everything on their team, able to ohko the pokemon that is currently in against you, and 2hko everything else before they can KO you. An example would be:

Let's assume Stealth Rock is out. You want to revenge kill a blissey so you send out infernape. He has a skarmory, vaporeon, and a gyrados in the rear. So you obviously CC the blissey. If he stays in, his blissey is guaranteed dead. If he switches in gyrados you can Stone edge, and with SR and max attack it is a guaranteed KO after the Close Combat. If he brings in vaporeon, you can just CC again. If he brings in Skarm, you just fire blast after hitting with CC. Thus you have effectively "trapped" your opponent. Unless the opponent switches in gyrados, then switches to vaporeon or something... it is an effective way to get a guaranteed KO on at least one thing. If your opponent switches in gyrados, they probably won't switch out immediately anyway >_> Not the perfect example, but I'm pretty sure that's the gist of what Articanus is getting at.

Not even Shed Shell could stop this: mind you, Choice Scarf on Gyarados would ruin this, but then the surprise is gone and it is severily weakened(you can set up on it so it has to switch out, but next time it comes in it takes even more SR. In my opinion, this is the key to consistently winning battles. If we continuously trap the opponent, who's to say they will ever have time to retaliate: if they keep dieing over and over, then there's obviously no way they will hit you, and no "hax" will ever occur.

The meaning of this thread is finalalized as of this post. I leave it for you all to trash what you want. Hopefully I can see smarter RMTs in the forums to be able to rate. That way I don't feel like I have to write six paragraphs to fix the team.

 

[RedPeppers]

Been interesting to say the least. Thank you for the help Articanus, it's interesting to hear what someone so good has to say.

 

[Deleted member]

last time I played I fought a scarf lucario, and I kept trying to force him to switch out but I couldn't do it cause I'm ******** -_-

 

[ss118]

Your team must be insanely weak to Agility Lucario then. lol

 

[Terywj [태리]]

LOO I'm too bored here nowadays to come up with teams like I used to back then.

-Ter

 

[SkylerOcon]

I should post an all Jigglypuff team, just to irk this guy...

 

[Pink Reaper]

Do it Mr. Ocon, that would be ****.

 

[Zook]

I should post an all Jigglypuff team, just to irk this guy...

'This guy?'

C'mon, guys, Articanus is cool. Don't diss him.

 

[ss118]

This Articanus guy needs to piss off from what I hear!
=P
By the way, no team you make will ever compare to my team "L.O.L.". So give it up nubs.

 

[Deleted member]

Your team must be insanely weak to Agility Lucario then. lol

actually everything I have can OHKO lucario, I just wanted heatran to come into something and attempt to buffer something with heatproof.