Some Misc. Questions

[Kashakunaki]

Alright, I had a few, rather vague, questions, and I am hoping that my fellow Docers (Lol?) would be willing to lend me a hand here.

1. Is it true you can DI with the c-stick? If so, is it true that it has priority over the control stick?
2. What are the percents you can change grab Shiek?
3. Doc vs. Jigs - Could I get some tips here?

I swear, I had five other questions like the first one. Rather random, but now I can't remember them... dammit.

 

[phanna]

You cannot perform Trajectory DI with the C-stick. If someone is going to throw you, whichever way you're holding the c-stick has no impact whatsoever. The c-stick can, however, be used for Smash-DI, much like the control stick, but both only jerk you a tiny bit in a direction, and are mostly only useful for teching and getting out of combos. So to answer your question, DI with the control stick. If you want to learn more about Directional Influence, read this thread:

A Guide to DI, Smash DI, C-stick DI, Teching and Crouch Cancelling

 

[Kashakunaki]

Oh, I remember one of my other questions. What's better for breaking out of grabs? Does rotating the C-Stick work? Is button mashing A and other misc. buttons work better/faster than rotating the control stick(I would avoid this anyways because then you lose your DI power)?

I have a tournament Saturday and this information could save me.

 

[Hylian]

For breaking out of grabs rotate the control stick..Make sure you DI correctly when thrown though.

And lol @ Samus players posting in Doc forum o.O.

 

[Dogysamich]

I dunno what's so funny about it hylian, i think i mighta just helped kirby players break rainbow cruise even more.

Anywho.

To answer your questions kash

1) you got answered already
2) change? You mean chain grab? I dunno, but I know sheik is in the upper range of the normal falling speed

Average Falling Speed

159% - Falco
152% - Fox
151% - Captain Falcon
128% - DK / Roy
118% - Ganondorf / Sheik
117% - Link / Marth / Young Link
116% - Bowser
108% - Pikachu
107% - Pichu / Yoshi
103% - Ness
101% - Dr. Mario / Mario / Mr. Game & Watch
98% - Ice Climbers
97% - Mewtwo
96% - Kirby / Peach
95% - Luigi / Samus
92% - Zelda
86% - Jigglypuff
--from the stats thread--

So, from my experience, if you grab sheik @ 0% and do a quick throw (to where you're pretty sure they wont di) you want to do your first throw up so you can chain them.

If you think they'll DI the second one, throw them up again. From 2 till your done, you outta be able to downthrow.

I'll come back and talk to jiggs in about 2 and a half hours or so, i g2g to class. :/

 

[Kashakunaki]

Yes, I did mean chain grab. I am the master of Frodian Slips, mind you.

I guess I'll just experiment because I thought it was something like 10%-40%, as you suggested.

 

[DrGrimReaper]

Whoa, there's a weird term, Frodian Slips? o.o xPlain? ^_^

 

[Dogysamich]

Whoa, there's a weird term, Frodian Slips? o.o xPlain? ^_^

I think it means to say something that you're thinking sub consiously. Like if you're bangin jessica, and you call her jennifer by mistake, cause jenn is your old gf.

Emphasis on think, cause thinkin dont happen often around here, and bad things happens when it does.

___

Anyways! What you wanted, some jiggs tips.

I personally play a jiggs player frequently, but he's an "unorthadoxed" jiggs player.

He uses WOP, but it's not his main mode, it's more of a tool he uses. He still approaches with b.airs and f.airs, so I have to kinda wait for my openings, or else I run into the wall and get dominated.

He loves uptilt and rest, but misjudges it sometimes so i can jump out. IF JIGGS EVER MISSES REST, CAPE HER 3/4 TIMES BEFORE YOU SMASH. Capes only turn jiggs around, doesnt knock her out of the rest animation (like fox's blaster).

Generally speaking, you want to approach with n.airs, maybe a d.air every once in a while. Pill rushes are ok, but you have to be behind your pill a lil' bit, especially if Jiggs likes to b.air your pills.

If jiggs gets pound-crazy, be ready to throw a f.smash out there. More-often-than-not, you'll trade off, which hurts jiggs more than it hurts you.

As long as you can avoid it, dont **** around with jiggs in the air. You can contest with b.airs, but that wont save you from jiggs' air game.

One of the most important things imo is if you're getting grabs, look for a ko 'round 90%. d.throw to f.air. KOs jiggs on most stages at about 90%~100%. You can get it to combo-hit at down at about 50%, but it wont be guarenteed.

__

If you go against a WOP heavy jiggs, you HAVE to pick and choose your spots. You cant really rush in head strong, cause normally jiggs is aiming to make every b.air hit (meaning you wont really see randomly placed high ones).

You can try pill rushes, but they'll get kicked. You still want to throw pills though, but you'll have to actually keep your distance for the most part. Back wavedashes offa fulljumped pills are nice.

Another option to have is to time jiggs with f.airs. When jiggs is about to land from wop'ing, try to time the landing with an f.air. Dont do this too much, though or else YOU'll get timed.

___

One more thing, you obviously want to take jiggs to a small stage. Yoshi's story or Green Greens works wonders. I personally dont mind fighting a jiggs on Final D either, since i <3 FD all night long. Corneria generally works too, if that's your bread'n'butter stage.

But whatever you do, ban mute city. The only reason why I wouldnt ban mute city against jiggs is if you know the guy your playing against can get REAL gay with a slob stage.

But mute city is jiggs heaven.

You also need to be cautios of Kirby64 and Jungle Japes. Kirby64 lets jiggs abuse her recovery (obviously), but jungle japes is bad because of the high ceiling and the rapids.

If you get dragged to jungle japes, try to hang out on the right side of the stage, so that you can use the current. And if you have Jiggs at a high percent, try to stay to the left so she CANT use the current.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Alright, awesome. I appreciate the tips. There is a mean *** Jiggs player I was having troubles with. Now, I knew a lot of this already, but not in a way that I, "know this is what I need to do." I often counter Jiggs on Corneria, but I think I'm going to start with Yoshi's story. I appreciate the tips.

 

[SmashMac]

Well, like Phanna said the c-stick is used for Smash DI. You usually angle it diagonally downwards and towards the stage within a 5 frame 'time-frame' of being hit (in other words, if you hit it diagonally and towards the stage which should be the opposite direction in which you're being it and you do this within either 5 frames before or 5 frames after the attack, you'll smash DI the attack and it changes I believe your momentum of how far you'd be sent from the attack). I use the c-stick to smash DI and the analog stick to DI my trajectory diagonally upwards and towards the stage (as do many others). It's best to hit both sticks to DI as fast as possible though and preferably withing a 5 frame time-frame of being hit. So in other words, use both the sticks to DI.

You can d-throw chain-grab Sheik safely and easily from 20 - 60% but if you're really good you can actually start d-throw chain-grabbing her at 0%.

And against Jiggs this is what I do:
1.) Spam pills RIGHT (as in spam pills at different angles and times as to keep her away from you).
2.) Use the down air a lot when you're in the air. Even rising full-jumps to down air is great.
3.) F-tilt for spacing. U-tilt for priority.
4.) NEUTRAL air and do it so that you go through her. It stays out so long and the sex get's stronger so that by the time they think it's over they usually get hit by it because they let their guard down (for whatever reason).
5.) Grab a lot and d-throw to a u-air.
6.) D-smash/F-smash and F-air are your kill moves but only use F-air if you know it will hit, and if they're sheilding it, L-cancel it to a jab and then d-smash to **** their sheild.
7.) Do the SH b-air DJ bair a lot and space it out so that the tip of your bair usually hits her (the last part of the hitbox of the bair). It's a good wall of defense.

Hope that helps. It's all I have time for right now. Spam pills vs. Jiggs man and space them out correctly. That's one of the major things you'll need to do vs. her to find an opening and bypass her wall of aerials.

 

[Dogysamich]

I've got 10 cents to add to smashmac's post, and it goes along with it, but kinda contradicts it.

Like he said, you want to spam pills, and he specifically said spam them right.

However, I'll say that if jiggs is b.airing all of your pills from a safe distance, slow down on the pills some.

A nice jiggs trick is to FH b.air through your first pill, which leaves them right in your face, in the air, while you have little or no time to react.

This shouldnt really discourage you from using pills; you pretty much have to.

But just be forwarned that jiggs can get 2 b. (or f.) airs in one full jump, easy.

 

[Luma]

as far as i know u can only perform asdi with the c-stick

 

[St. Viers]

luna: you can do it with both, but as the C-stick out prioritizes the analog for ASDI, why use the analog stick and then have horrible regular DI?

 

[Luma]

u got me wrong
u cant do smash di with the c stick, just asdi
(+ u can have good di and sdi with the analog stick if u'r fast enough ^^)

ps: my name is LuMa...

 

[The GERM]

this is bob
llol funny thing i was playing king best puff in the world at a tournament match last match last stock on yoshi story he was at 140 i was at 130 i downsmashed him on the right side of the stage facing right and he survived it crazy good DI huh.everytime we see each other he says nice downsamsh and i say nice DI ***** he won that match....

 

[Kashakunaki]

Rofl. That's hilarious, Bob. I can't imagine surviving something like that.