Neutral B quick hop onto platforms works in every way lol. Just fall through and rise with it for insta-canceled neut Bs. Puff loses cause Ivysaur hold all the advantages against her WoP =].
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Solar Powered: Ivysaur Q&A/General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir
- Start date
D
Deleted member
Guest
I agree that a smartly played Ivysuar will make it a difficult matchup. Puff will smack you around hard if she manages to get you in the air, but you have the attack speed and range to keep her away. Seed Bomb means they never want to be above you, and the threat of Solar Beam/Vine Whip makes it dangerous for her to be diagonally in front of you. From behind, Ivysaur has Bair, which outranges everything Jigglypuff has, including her own precious Bair. You have a quick projectile in Razor Leaf while she has none. If she breaches your defenses and starts getting close, you have Synthesis. She'll basically float in and out until you give her an opening. Do your best not to give her that opening.
-Fatality-
Smash Journeyman
Well, I feel we've summed up the Puff matchup for the most part.
Neutral B quick hop onto platforms works in every way lol. Just fall through and rise with it for insta-canceled neut Bs.
Could you elaborate on that? Sounds like very useful information.
Neutral B quick hop onto platforms works in every way lol. Just fall through and rise with it for insta-canceled neut Bs.
Could you elaborate on that? Sounds like very useful information.
-Fatality-
Smash Journeyman
Sorry for the double post, just learned how to actually reply to a post.
Could you elaborate on that? Sounds like very useful information.
Also, what tournament experiences do you guys have with 2.6 Ivysaur yet?
I'll start.
I recently won a 6 man PM 2.6 tournament at Tm 23 Smackdown playing mostly Ivy with a side of C.Falcon. While the actual PM tourney attendance was a joke, I was able to best one excellent player, and one pretty good player Grand Finals against Chinesah's Fox and DK was the hardest fought victory I've ever had, the man is an absolute beast. I played Mono Ivy in Grand Finals btw.
arata18
Smash Cadet
Fantastic job maining Ivy and making that work out in a tournament... I fell like Ivysaur (while not being godly or anything) is very fun to play and does have good spacing and comboing options. DK is a big target to hit and on the subject of puff, either of these characters does not have the hitboxes Ivy does. DK has more on Ivy cause of his long gorilla arms and feet but he is not very fast and would be easy to get dair/uair strings on. I haven't played Ivy against too many people who are actually good but everyone who has played against my Ivy has hated it. IMO Ivy is one of the most underapreciated characters because she can be comboed. Big whoop you can combo fox/falco from 0 to death and people still play them.
Now if only the smash scene in spokane would pick up that way we could get some good games and streams going...
-Fatality-
Smash Journeyman
The solar beam charge is called Synthesis btw.
Anyway, Synthesis's hitbox is extremely useful for many reasons.
1: It's Ivysaur's best Out Of Sheild or Crouch Canceled get out of my face move under pressure.
2: At lower damage percents, the move can be used following a short hop fair or bair as a combo move. Think of Synthesis in combos kinda like how marth short hop double fairs, except ivy short hop fairs or bairs and then synthesis.
3: Synthesis immediately cancels when it hits the ground, which lets you follow up hitting someone with it extremely fast, allowing for easy up smashes, grabs, vine whip, or solar beam, or just more combos.
4: Though this more of a pet thing I do, I like to B-reverse it a lot after dash jumps for fake outs and surprise attacks.
5: The move comes out extremely fast.
6: It heals you, and pushes you a step closer to your best finisher, solar beam.
Anyway, Synthesis's hitbox is extremely useful for many reasons.
1: It's Ivysaur's best Out Of Sheild or Crouch Canceled get out of my face move under pressure.
2: At lower damage percents, the move can be used following a short hop fair or bair as a combo move. Think of Synthesis in combos kinda like how marth short hop double fairs, except ivy short hop fairs or bairs and then synthesis.
3: Synthesis immediately cancels when it hits the ground, which lets you follow up hitting someone with it extremely fast, allowing for easy up smashes, grabs, vine whip, or solar beam, or just more combos.
4: Though this more of a pet thing I do, I like to B-reverse it a lot after dash jumps for fake outs and surprise attacks.
5: The move comes out extremely fast.
6: It heals you, and pushes you a step closer to your best finisher, solar beam.
Swann
Smash Journeyman
Yeah synthesis is the truth
-Fatality-
Smash Journeyman
Ok, just got back from Smash for your life 2, won a 5 man PM round robin tournament.
I beat Soft ( Fox, Falco), PB@J (Fox, Falco, Metaknight), Grayson (Ganon), and some other guy who played Falco.
Won the tournament almost completely off the back of my Ivysaur, as the only time I played my Falcon was against the ganon.
I beat Soft ( Fox, Falco), PB@J (Fox, Falco, Metaknight), Grayson (Ganon), and some other guy who played Falco.
Won the tournament almost completely off the back of my Ivysaur, as the only time I played my Falcon was against the ganon.
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
Synthesis da bess.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
I've been playing some ivy recently, after i kinda stopped playing her for a while.
Really like the fact that neutral B has a hitbox and cancels on landing. coupled with her fair/bair ending before you hit the ground i think it actually makes ivy pretty good at pressuring. overshooting to neutralB to anything is a pretty decent and reasonably safe way to get in i think.
I'm sad about the downB change though... i just read that you people all like it alot, but I have problems using it well... It might be just me, as i neither play ivy alot, nor use downB too much when playing, but i love her DownB as a fake approach. Now, everytime i try to use wavebouncing with downB I end up shooting the seed in the same direction in which i bounce (which is usualy away from the opponent.) it makes DownB rather unusable with wavebouncing... it'd be nice if there'd be a way to have both.
Really like the fact that neutral B has a hitbox and cancels on landing. coupled with her fair/bair ending before you hit the ground i think it actually makes ivy pretty good at pressuring. overshooting to neutralB to anything is a pretty decent and reasonably safe way to get in i think.
I'm sad about the downB change though... i just read that you people all like it alot, but I have problems using it well... It might be just me, as i neither play ivy alot, nor use downB too much when playing, but i love her DownB as a fake approach. Now, everytime i try to use wavebouncing with downB I end up shooting the seed in the same direction in which i bounce (which is usualy away from the opponent.) it makes DownB rather unusable with wavebouncing... it'd be nice if there'd be a way to have both.
Dair's strongest point is the mobility and versatility it gives Ivy. Fair sets up for everything (especially itself).
I like to use double seed bomb. SH seed bomb then, right as you land, send another seed bomb with more control from the ground. It lets you set up a perfect screen to dominate neutral game.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
Haha, that's nice, i gotta try that...
But you didn't really adress anything from my post ^^
How do you feel about the angled DownB being connected to aerial movement... wouldn't there be a better way to implement controlling the DownBs direction?
But you didn't really adress anything from my post ^^
How do you feel about the angled DownB being connected to aerial movement... wouldn't there be a better way to implement controlling the DownBs direction?
[quote="Yomi-no-Kuni, post: 15798625, member: 71873]"I'm sad about the downB change though... i just read that you people all like it alot, but I have problems using it well... It might be just me, as i neither play ivy alot, nor use downB too much when playing, but i love her DownB as a fake approach. Now, everytime i try to use wavebouncing with downB I end up shooting the seed in the same direction in which i bounce (which is usualy away from the opponent.) it makes DownB rather unusable with wavebouncing... it'd be nice if there'd be a way to have both.[/quote]
Just wavebounce, then hold the opposite direction again. The timing is fairly strict, but it's not difficult to learn with practice; it's totally doable in 2.6.
Just wavebounce, then hold the opposite direction again. The timing is fairly strict, but it's not difficult to learn with practice; it's totally doable in 2.6.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
allright, thanks! I was hoping it was just me 
So if i do the wavebounce and let go immediately it still goes straight up?
I still think it's kind of a nuisance that you can't aim it midair without influencing your movement, but it's fine ^^
So if i do the wavebounce and let go immediately it still goes straight up?
I still think it's kind of a nuisance that you can't aim it midair without influencing your movement, but it's fine ^^
Yes; if you don't want to practice the wavebounce + angle timing, just wavebounce and stop holding the direction; Ivysaur's deceleration isn't very high, so it's basically the same as what you did before.
At the last tournament I went to almost every Toronto Melee player was complaining the Ivysaur was broken (even if they beat me without knowing the MU, I was confused)
One of them, who's part of the PM dev team, told me to expect Ivysaur nerfs next version.
What do you guys think?
One of them, who's part of the PM dev team, told me to expect Ivysaur nerfs next version.
What do you guys think?
Swann
Smash Journeyman
The PMBRoomer that I play with got fed up with my Ivy months ago, and the recent changes she's gotten have only made his complaints stronger and louder.
Personally, I think that Ivy needs a revamp, but that's just my opinion. I still love playing her, regardless.
Personally, I think that Ivy needs a revamp, but that's just my opinion. I still love playing her, regardless.
Subzer0_king68
Smash Cadet
All of Alberta's melee players have also been complaining about ivy as well
God dammit why are Canadian smashers such *******?
Out of curiosity, is it Brawl players or Melee players that are complaining? Here in Toronto it's only the Melee players complaining about PM Ivysaur
Though maybe that's because the only Brawl player who plays PM uses Ivysaur and just gets to murder-**** me whenever I go offstage
Sudai
Stuff here
The only complaints I've heard about Ivy are Melee mains who play fast fallers. After I explain her weaknesses they usually stop complaining because they realized they just didn't know wtf to do in a MU where if you don't know what to do, you get **** on.
Why would you tell them her weaknesses?
I want to show everyone in Toronto how to edgeguard Ivysaur because whenever I watch a match with an Ivy in it I feel like slapping the non-Ivysaur player because they can't edgeguard, but I don't tell them what to do because that will cripple me. I'm probably going to show them what to do if Mewtwo gets released, as that will be when I switch mains
Sudai
Stuff here
Because I prefer to play against the best competition I can so that I can learn work arounds to the things that beat me as opposed to abusing a lack of knowledge. I don't think either ideology is better than the other I just prefer to have the highest level of gameplay I can as that's whats most fun to me. That's why I enter tournies.
I prefer taking any advantage I can get.
That being said, I'm overjoyed when I lose to someone and the reason they beat me is because they figured out how to edgeguard me.
Sudai
Stuff here
Yeah I figured that was your style when you asked why I'd tell people how to counter me.
I get overjoyed when I figure out counters to people's counters. Gotta advance that metagame.
I get overjoyed when I figure out counters to people's counters. Gotta advance that metagame.
CyberZixx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,189
Please tell me how to edgeguard Ivy. She gets back for free vs me and lives up to 150% each stock.Why would you tell them her weaknesses?
I want to show everyone in Toronto how to edgeguard Ivysaur because whenever I watch a match with an Ivy in it I feel like slapping the non-Ivysaur player because they can't edgeguard, but I don't tell them what to do because that will cripple me. I'm probably going to show them what to do if Mewtwo gets released, as that will be when I switch mains
Sudai
Stuff here
Hang on the ledge. She can still grab it with her up-b but she can't hang forever and is eventually forced to pull up. If you're on the edge when she pulls up, she's forced in to a small little hop back on to the stage. She has some options out of that hop but she's not invincible during it and is susceptible to ledge hopped aerials.
CyberZixx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,189
My problem is how antsy I am in that situation where I am grabing the ledge and ivy is hanging on it. I use Marth and was trying to dair her as she comes up. The timing for that seems difficult as I never got it. Any idea how many frame it takes her to zip up?
Sudai
Stuff here
Its not enough for you to spike her reactionary.
Sudai
Stuff here
Not being a marth player but playing against a lot of marths back in Melee, I think ledge hop NAir, moving through Ivy to try to knock him back off stage is your best bet.
Sudai
Stuff here
NP. Like I said before, I'm all about advancing the meta to get the highest caliber games possible. :]
So true. I teache my friends the ivy match-up so the can own other pocket ivys and I'm able to fight against player who knows the match-up. Better training for me.
EDIT: Not sure if this is a known technique, but i found out, that Ivy got a chaingrab on some chars. Nothign specials against floaties obviously, but for example against Falco, he deals 0-70% with nearly no problem. Wolf on FD goes to 90%. Just grab and DThrow. The First Regrab has to be frame-perfect i guess (had to train alot with 1/4 speed) and after 40% you have to walkgrab/dashgrab. BF-Plattforms will interrupt (Falco) by 70%.
Tested on Falco, Fox, Wolf, Sheik and Falcon (shiek won't work well), at the moment just against CPUs but I'll try against humas later, too.
EDIT: Not sure if this is a known technique, but i found out, that Ivy got a chaingrab on some chars. Nothign specials against floaties obviously, but for example against Falco, he deals 0-70% with nearly no problem. Wolf on FD goes to 90%. Just grab and DThrow. The First Regrab has to be frame-perfect i guess (had to train alot with 1/4 speed) and after 40% you have to walkgrab/dashgrab. BF-Plattforms will interrupt (Falco) by 70%.
Tested on Falco, Fox, Wolf, Sheik and Falcon (shiek won't work well), at the moment just against CPUs but I'll try against humas later, too.
Usually I'll tell them to go ask one of the 3 people in Toronto that actually knows how to edgeguard me
Neutral B is a better shine than shine =D.