Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!

[Bazkip]

Yo we've got a 64 weekly in Montreal going on right now with The Z and Revan, figured you guys might like a heads up! http://www.twitch.tv/ssbmontreal/

 

[Morin0]

z cancelling is an unnecessary tech barrier; however, I can't imagine a world of ssb without pressing a button during a certain number of frames to cancel landing lag. It's too ingrained in my brain that I sometimes try to z/l-cancel in fgc games.

 

[Shears]

z cancelling is an unnecessary tech barrier; however, I can't imagine a world of ssb without pressing a button during a certain number of frames to cancel landing lag. It's too ingrained in my brain that I sometimes try to z/l-cancel in fgc games.

Its not unnecessary. Not at all. It changes the game significantly, auto cancelling would not yield the same game play and would turn it into a button masher. I guess no one understands the importance of form. Play sports people. Form matters. If you don't want form quit smash and go play chess.

 

[Sedda]

there is still "form" without z cancelling. pivoting, running shieldrops, DI, char specific techs, etc.

none of those are arbitrary and z cancelling is

 

[MrMarbles]

Its not unnecessary. Not at all. It changes the game significantly, auto cancelling would not yield the same game play and would turn it into a button masher. I guess no one understands the importance of form. Play sports people. Form matters. If you don't want form quit smash and go play chess.

definately wouldnt turn it into a button masher. It would however reduce the technical barrier of getting into the game without changing the gameplay in any way. But the technical barrier for 64 isn't very high anyways so who cares

 

[Shears]

It would change the gameplay and it is not arbitrary. We can have this discussion in person at SSC. Having to do something every time doesn't make it arbitrary and because you wish you didn't have to do it doesn't make it arbitrary either.

"Breathing is arbitrary" - Sedda

 

[MrMarbles]

It would change the gameplay and it is not arbitrary. We can have this discussion in person at SSC. Having to do something every time doesn't make it arbitrary and because you wish you didn't have to do it doesn't make it arbitrary either.

"Breathing is arbitrary" - Sedda

how does it change the gameplay? and dont say something along the lines of it adds "form". im talking about gameplay not inputs or the learning process. the gameplay would be exactly the same with the exception of there not being any missed z cancels which happens pretty rarely with top players

 

[asianaussie]

top level 64 gameplay would not change if z-cancels were removed

 

[Annex]

auto cancelling would not yield the same game play and would turn it into a button masher

Hey didn't you play brawl?

 

[Sedda]

It would change the gameplay and it is not arbitrary. We can have this discussion in person at SSC. Having to do something every time doesn't make it arbitrary and because you wish you didn't have to do it doesn't make it arbitrary either.

"Breathing is arbitrary" - Sedda

Lol there's never a reason not to z cancel except for maybe with jiggs dair sometimes.
It wouldn't change the game at all.
Also, breathing is one of those things that happen without you having to actively think about it. I can't remember the name of it, but it's literally just like an auto cancelled aerial

 

[KnitePhox]

Breathing and blinking doesn't count cuz you can control them and they are involuntary so they are essentially z cancelled and auto cancelled : ) doctor @ asianaussie

 

[Sedda]

Well at least there's a choice.

Maybe that's why shears misses every edgeguard. He's too busy focusing on trying to breathe

 

[Shears]

Well at least there's a choice.

Maybe that's why shears misses every edgeguard. He's too busy focusing on trying to breathe

$20 MM my pika vs your fox. Lets count how many edgeguards I miss.

 

[Sedda]

You'll win but ok

 

[Shears]

You'll win but ok

Lets make it interesting then. We play a best of 3 as if it were a MM and set an over/under for edgeguards I miss. The MM isn't on the outcome of the set, but on the number of edgeguards I miss within the set. I'm putting $20 on the under, want to match? We can determine the over/under at SSC.

 

[Sedda]

You're taking the edgeguard thing to heart. You can't deny that you miss edgeguards all the time. If you wanna mm that's fine but these rules are dumb

 

[Shears]

I contest I don't miss any edgeguards more than normal. In fact, I even counted bark vs LD and bark missed more edgeguards than me. I don't miss an unusual number of edgeguards against anyone other than LD. Take a step back and actually look at it instead of hopping on the missed edgeguard bandwagon. What you think you observe isn't necessarily what is actually being observed. I call this the lucky number fallacy. Its where someone believes something happens more only because that thing made a bigger or first impression. For example, my roommate in college believed the number 26 was a lucky number. The reason 26 was lucky to him was initially because of some personal reasons that made an impression on him. Then, subconsciously he began to pay attention to 26 more than other numbers. He would tell me that he can prove 26 is lucky to him based on the frequency of which it appears. He claimed whenever he looked at a clock, a radio, a receipt, anything that had numbers, it almost always had a number 26 on it and therefore it was lucky. I explained to him that 26 isn't more frequent than any other number and instead he just pays attention to 26 and ignores other numbers. When he looks at a clock or anything with a number and doesn't see 26 he doesn't register it as anything important, and therefore forgets he ever saw any number at all. But when he looks at a clock or anything with a number and it happens to have 26, he ends up remembering it and continuing the belief that its lucky only because he has subconsciously given significance to the number which in turn leads him to consciously pay attention to it. This is no different than how my edgeguards are perceived. I missed some edgeguards that were either really bad, or appeared bad because it always looks easier than it is (against LD at least). These misses left an impression that whenever I miss an edgeguard you end up remembering it, because of the impression and attention given to my misses. But when you see bark, banze, dexter, and everyone else who plays LD miss an edgeguard you ignore it or forget (usually not intentionally) because it isn't something you are looking to observe. When I play everyone says, look at the edgeguards shears misses, but when someone else plays its just look at the match. You are observing equal misses in edgeguards you are just only paying attention to the ones I miss. Lucky number fallacy, one of the many common weaknesses in humans.

 

[Sedda]

Tldr but when I come home today I'll compile a list of moments of you missing edgeguards within the last month.

We've even made it a game of over/under of how many you'll miss in a game. Idk why it's hard to admit that's the weakest point of your game, but people automatically get defensive when you say something negative about the way they play

 

[Shears]

Tldr but when I come home today I'll compile a list of moments of you missing edgeguards within the last month.

We've even made it a game of over/under of how many you'll miss in a game. Idk why it's hard to admit that's the weakest point of your game, but people automatically get defensive when you say something negative about the way they play

I'm not saying its not the weakest part of my game. And I miss a ton of edgeguards against LD. But you're looking at it selectively. Everyone else against LD misses an equal number of edgeguards yet they don't get the criticism I do. Make a meme out of it, sure, I also SD a lot and we've made memes of it too. The problem though is its less of an edgeguard problem and more of an LD problem but because no one else plays LD in tournament every week and just sees what they would do differently on video in hindsight, they don't seem to get it.

Shears misses an edgeguard against LD at Xanadu->sucks at edgeguarding
Banze/dexter miss edgeguards against LD at Apex->Kahnu matrix gif, LD is neo
Bark misses an edgeguard against LD at Xanadu->no reaction

Its funnier to say I suck at edgeguarding than say nothing at all or treat it like normal other existing cases. I get it. I'll live with it, but doing/saying something because its a funny meme or punch line is different than believing it to be 100% true always.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

My luigi edge Guards LD 8/10 times lmao

 

[ballin4life]

If everything was autocanceled this would be a different game.

A better one, with more players

definately wouldnt turn it into a button masher. It would however reduce the technical barrier of getting into the game without changing the gameplay in any way. But the technical barrier for 64 isn't very high anyways so who cares

It's pretty damn high especially for a newcomer. I personally know multiple people that used to play casually but are not willing to spend a week practicing hitting Z every time they land.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

A better one, with more players



It's pretty damn high especially for a newcomer. I personally know multiple people that used to play casually but are not willing to spend a week practicing hitting Z every time they land.

My older brother forcefully doesn't want to learn Z-Cancelling and it makes me sad like every time I see no Z cancel from him I go "You know you can make fox get up quicker" and he just says I dont care, stop trying to make me play your way.
He's really good too but he for some reason wants to avoid learning any kind of new technique or even getting into high level tournaments

 

[Sedda]

I'm not saying its not the weakest part of my game. And I miss a ton of edgeguards against LD. But you're looking at it selectively. Everyone else against LD misses an equal number of edgeguards yet they don't get the criticism I do. Make a meme out of it, sure, I also SD a lot and we've made memes of it too. The problem though is its less of an edgeguard problem and more of an LD problem but because no one else plays LD in tournament every week and just sees what they would do differently on video in hindsight, they don't seem to get it.

Shears misses an edgeguard against LD at Xanadu->sucks at edgeguarding
Banze/dexter miss edgeguards against LD at Apex->Kahnu matrix gif, LD is neo
Bark misses an edgeguard against LD at Xanadu->no reaction

Its funnier to say I suck at edgeguarding than say nothing at all or treat it like normal other existing cases. I get it. I'll live with it, but doing/saying something because its a funny meme or punch line is different than believing it to be 100% true always.

Dexter didn't miss near as many edgeguards and bark is better at edgeguarding.

Also the matrix thing is a joke that I came up with and it doesn't have anything to do with recovering. Kahnu is just a filthy criminal

 

[Shears]

Dexter didn't miss near as many edgeguards and bark is better at edgeguarding.

Also the matrix thing is a joke that I came up with and it doesn't have anything to do with recovering. Kahnu is just a filthy criminal

Count barks misses next time. I have, its equal to mine.

 

[Hentenaar]

I've never missed an edgeguard against LD. But I've also never gotten him off the edge

 

[MrMarbles]

I can't edgegaurd LD for ****

 

[MrMarbles]

so i just realized that the first tier list for this game wasn't made until 2008? i always assumed it was made way back in the day. Can someone explain to me why ness was 3rd in 2008? i feel like it must have been known that he sucked by then.

 

[SheerMadness]

Not sure where you're getting that info Marbles.

I think the tier list where Ness was 3rd was from some unofficial GameFAQs tier list in the early 2000s. There were several other forums that were more active for 64 than smashboards up until 2006ish. Maybe smashboards just didn't have an official list until 2008?

But yah having been around back then I can certainly tell you it didn't take the competitive community until 2008 to realize Ness sucks.

 

[MrMarbles]

Not sure where you're getting that info Marbles.

I think the tier list where Ness was 3rd was from some unofficial GameFAQs tier list in the early 2000s. There were several other forums that were more active for 64 than smashboards up until 2006ish. Maybe smashboards just didn't have an official list until 2008?

But yah having been around back then I can certainly tell you it didn't take the competitive community until 2008 to realize Ness sucks.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSB_tier_lists_(NTSC)

 

[KnitePhox]

Hahahahahah. Ha.

 

[Shears]

That list was someones opinion and because it was written down on the Internet casuals read it and believed it and so it was copied in a lot of places and it's what everyone who wasn't competitive believed.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

That list was someones opinion and because it was written down on the Internet casuals read it and believed it and so it was copied in a lot of places and it's what everyone who wasn't competitive believed.

Ness as third

I wonder whether a certain old Ness main from smashboards popularized it.

Also, LD is hard to edgeguard for a Fox. It's odd

 

[Morin0]

But yah having been around back then I can certainly tell you it didn't take the competitive community until 2008 to realize Ness sucks.

what do you mean? full hop dair over and over is a good technique

 

[Olikus]

tier list with ness 3rd was waaay back. 2002 or something.

 

[Capos]

The interesting thing about that list is that if it was just one guy and didn't reflect the community opinion, the rest of the list is pretty much dead on.

 

[Shaya]

I know I readily agreed with it back in 02/03 lol.

 

[Shears]

I'm adding a page to http://onlinessb.com that will consist of references and documentation about the game. I would like to compile a list of instructional youtube videos/playlists/channels, technical data, glossaries, indexes, etc. Currently I have a link to the yoshi armor break chart created by Bloodpeach. If anyone can shoot me any lists of data, links to any documentations, etc. and the people involved in creating this information or compiling it that would be great. Having a source of all things ssb can be helpful for newcomers and anyone who wants to double check a fact sheet or something of that nature.

http://onlinessb.com/data.html

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I'd recommend maybe linking to that basic/intermediate thread for every character link..which I cannot find right now

 

[Morin0]

I particularly like this part of the website: http://you.onlinessb.com/pages/Ness.html

 

[FeenieTheTrite]

I don't know how I came across this, but I found this interesting N64 cartridge sale on a random web search. It reminds me of all of the creepypastas I used to read a few years back.

This is a local ad for some random town in the world, and they want you to pick it up in person. It's very unlikely that anyone here would even be able to pick this up, so I blocked out the address for the privacy of the poster.

Spoiler

Dem Eyes