Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!

[KoRoBeNiKi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf_lOg8W5j8&feature=youtu.be

Hitbox mode makes more interesting combos.

 

[malva00]

Sorry if I haven't posted too much lately. I've been addicted to the Google Docs forums XD

 

[mixa]

i think POUND is better than SHAKING

discuss

 

[Shaya]

I think everyone does.

 

[Sedda]

I'm great at pound/shake (my god that sounds awful) mindgames.

and idk. pound is like: dude that was cray xD. handshake is like:deep inside, im disappointed in myself, but gg. respect.

 

[mixa]

shaya, megane-kun does not, evidently

sedda, i think you may be right. considering that after losing, noobs will throw paper and mango will just keep his coolin rock until they concede

 

[Sedda]

yeah dude. his pressure extends beyond the set

 

[Sangoku]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, but how feasible would it be to make some kind of training program? What I mean is that in order to train something in particular, there's often a setup needed. In the easiest situation, a savestate with the correct position and percent is enough (for a particular combo practice for example), but in some other instance, Cheatengine is needed (like mixa's Yoshi shieldbreak practice). None of them are difficult to do by themselves, but they all require to waste some time upon setting up. Ideally it would be a program with all the situation you want to work on (which could be created and added), you select one, it takes you to training mode with all the correct settings (including cheats), you can easily reset the position or go back to main menu. And everything would be done with the controller (especially resetting). Utopically it would be nice for combos to get a log of when you inputted what so you could see what should have been pressed earlier/later to make the combo work.

I don't know, maybe I'm just too lazy, but would you find it useful? As I'm not a computer pro, I'm wondering how doable all that would be (and to what extent).

Some training workshop idea:
-mixa's Yoshi shieldbreak
-any other shieldbreak
-any combo
-parry: having an opponent constantly doing the same attack like Samus charge shot.
-DI

 

[Madao]

Lol, that would take even more effort and work, than it would be to individually set them up. I can't say it's a bad idea, because i like it too. Who is willing to make such a program though? For training, I just use save states + cheat engine + autohotkey to map a button to an f key for fast loading. So you want a program that automatically takes you to training mode? That part sounds really difficult, and would take more effort than it's worth. I apologize if I misunderstood your suggestion though. When you say training mode, do you mean a match or just the lobby? Lobby switching might be quick to do, but loading a match is really complicated. Although I'm sure there are quick ways to change settings. Like if you want to change characters, you can freeze the player # and when you reset match, you be w/e character you set it to.

Really I think you can already do some of those tasks by using hotkeys + memory editing.

The log idea sounds good and possibly worth the effort though. B Link was interested in viewing the input data recorded from krec files, but not much was done yet.

What are some flaws with cheat engine though? It has some really nice features, it just takes a while to really know how to use it.

 

[Sangoku]

I said "program" randomly, it could very well be some AHK combinations mapped to numbers (for example) taking you to various situations. What I'd like to have is something that loads a savestate, then set memory addresses to what you want instead of doing it manually with cheatengine.

I can indeed already do all that with hotkeys+memory editting, but the thing is it is kinda impractical, especially if I want to train something 5 minutes, then something else 5 minutes, etc.

I guess I am just too lazy lol.

What should we do to understand the krec file?

Edit: yeah in fact you're right, and I answered myself... My solution is just to make different AHK scripts that load everything for me.

 

[mixa]

I am very fond of the idea of training, but I don't see the need for such software.

Some things I've worked on:

• Falcon f-throw on Pika at 0% on DL - trying to get a 02D in all spots (possible except for the last one)
  
• Basic ledge DI - in fact, this was the first practice I was doing when I came back to smash. My first vid
  
• DI'ing vs Fox's single-hit Uair - hard to set it up since you want different angles, etc
• DI'ing vs Pika f-smash at the ledge - tricky at first but by yourself I don't see how it could be much better (vid)

I could've shared the save states, but 1. no one cares/real practice is better, 2. people should practice their own thing they themselves devised, 3. some stuff takes literally 2min to set up.

Utopically it would be nice for combos to get a log of when you inputted what so you could see what should have been pressed earlier/later to make the combo work.

When doing waveshine on Samus I recorded the game along with the TAS input plugin. Since it's a short combo, I could see what I was doing wrong (and found out I was doing 1 unnecessary input).

And by the way, Yoshi shieldbreaking doesn't require anything but save states.

 

[Madao]

Lol I wasn't sure if AHK and cheat engine alone would suit your needs. So basically you just want to switch between different scenarios very fast.

The main issue will be things like changing characters. Idk a more convenient way to do that than what I described. I also understand my cheat table is very large. Hopefully one day I will organize it and remove the unnecessary addresses. I believe cheat engine has scripts, but I couldn't be bothered trying to learn how to use them.

For krec files, you'd need to find a programmer who's willing to spend time trying to figure out how to interpret the bytes. If it's simple enough, then someone (even myself), could make a program that reads the input from the emulator and displays a picture based on what buttons are being held. Although Idk how i'd display the analog angle as that seems more complicated lol. I can't promise that I'd actually make a program like this either. I'm decent at winapi, so I know how to do memory reads and writes, but the picture display is where I have trouble. I don't really know Direct X or OpenGL well enough to make a nice program. For my combo counter, I just had a box that displays a number. I couldn't have it hover over the emulator window without effecting the fps rate.

The problem is, i can't see a convenient way to quickly set things up the way u want it. Aside from character and stage changes, the programmer would have to implement a ton of different options. I'd imagine they would have to have a bunch of textboxes and buttons.

In the meantime I think you should make more hotkeys/macros for training. With a condensed table, it wouldn't be that big of a hassle to set things like HP, coordinates, DI, etc. Idk, maybe you like to do some hardcore training or something, but I feel like it's convenient enough to just overwrite savestates, anytime I want to try something different. Like if I want to practice a combo, I'll position myself, then save, then practice and keep loading. Then maybe I'll want to practice DI so i freeze hitlag and set the DI state (you don't even need a save state for this one). For me, being able to instantly load with the press of a button is enough for quality training.

Perhaps I'm not being creative, so let me know of scenarios that would definitely benefit from this program. If I'm interested enough, I could contribute.

 

[Sangoku]

I could've shared the save states, but 1. no one cares/real practice is better, 2. people should practice their own thing they themselves devised

1. Well I care, 2. Why? On the contrary, I think sharing is better since there are things a lot of people need to train (like shieldbreaks)

And by the way, Yoshi shieldbreaking doesn't require anything but save states.

A frozen value is kept with a savestate? I didn't think it was.

In the meantime I think you should make more hotkeys/macros for training. With a condensed table, it wouldn't be that big of a hassle to set things like HP, coordinates, DI, etc. Idk, maybe you like to do some hardcore training or something, but I feel like it's convenient enough to just overwrite savestates, anytime I want to try something different. Like if I want to practice a combo, I'll position myself, then save, then practice and keep loading. Then maybe I'll want to practice DI so i freeze hitlag and set the DI state (you don't even need a save state for this one). For me, being able to instantly load with the press of a button is enough for quality training.

Perhaps I'm not being creative, so let me know of scenarios that would definitely benefit from this program. If I'm interested enough, I could contribute.

Yeah you're right, I should just learn to use AHK better. How would you navigate in cheatengine with AHK? Using mouse coordinates? On the contrary, it's because I'm not a hardcore trainer that I'd like to have things simple. If it requires 2 minutes of setup I can't be bothered training and I'd rather not do it.

Let's forget the program idea, but I still think it would be nice to have a collection of training ideas with their AHK scripts associated.

 

[mixa]

I think sharing is better

I agree. Sharing is good and I wish people would talk more about their practices and ideas. However that does not happen (it's fine) and I often I feel like I post too much about the game, so I keep the sharing to a minimum as to not feel like I'm on an autistic loop.

A frozen value is kept with a savestate? I didn't think it was.

That is for DJC practice. For shieldbreaking you don't need cheat engine.

 

[Madao]

Yeah you're right, I should just learn to use AHK better. How would you navigate in cheatengine with AHK? Using mouse coordinates? On the contrary, it's because I'm not a hardcore trainer that I'd like to have things simple. If it requires 2 minutes of setup I can't be bothered training and I'd rather not do it.

Let's forget the program idea, but I still think it would be nice to have a collection of training ideas with their AHK scripts associated.

Sorry I forgot how to use some of cheat engine's features. Cheat Engine itself supports hotkeys. Still, AHK would probably be better for you since it's more simple. Lol I just realised that you'll probably have to scroll through the table list. I didn't realise how small it is . You can use buttons like pageup, pagedown, home, and end, to navigate faster. The thing about hotkeys is, you'd have to change the settings of the hotkey whenever you want to change numbers. You can use mouse coordinates, but idk how you'll be able to find them since you don't have that auto script recorder thing. What part of setting up is the most time consuming for you? I just realised that even selecting character and stage can be quick. You could simply freeze the values beforehand and just press start. Also, I like to freeze the cpu on lv 9 since it gets up quicker. Although idk why the lv9 cpu sometimes holds the shield until it breaks. I'll look into hotkeys and see what I can come up with. It's fun using creativity to discover new things .

I agree. Sharing is good and I wish people would talk more about their practices and ideas. However that does not happen (it's fine) and I often I feel like I post too much about the game, so I keep the sharing to a minimum as to not feel like I'm on an autistic loop.

Lol i agree with you on this. Sometimes I wonder what I should share and what I shouldn't. Especially considering hardly anyone even reads my posts lol... I really do feel like people don't share / talk enough.

 

[Sangoku]

Next time you guys are afraid of sharing something in the void, send it to me via pm. I'm always interested in reading your ideas, especially training ideas.

Is it hard to learn Cheatengine's hotkeys? Anything that requires to open Cheatengine is consuming for me lol. That is, if it's just a savestate, it's obviously not very long. But when you have to change memory addresses it gets a little bit longer.

mixa: training shieldbreak on the opponent is better because it doesn't have the disadvantage of the shield getting smaller.

 

[Madao]

Well idk if you already do this, but I pinned cheat engine to my task bar, so i can right click it and open up my table. So far I know how to use a hotkey to either set a value or freeze a value. You can make multiple hotkeys use the same button. The thing about setting up numbers is, they take time to type in regardless, unless you don't plan on using different numbers. To set hotkeys, you can right click a specific variable and click on set/change hotkey.

Well Idk what values you change other than maybe hp, di, and coordinates. What other things do you need?

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

I thought you said you already tired that one. http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-64-index-read-here-first.350305/

You're also using the old client. Here, Download this and try it instead. http://www.mediafire.com/download/d4jpc0lnqm7aqcx/Project64k_0_13.zip

Sorry, I meant I redownloaded the one I had. So which one could I download when I get home? The one from the index or the 'New Client' (what does that mean? A newer version of pj64k?) sorry for asking too many questions

 

[Sangoku]

Donwload the one in the index. The new client is only the kaillera.dll file, but it is included in the version of Project 64k linked in the index.

Madao: I think percentage and coordinates are the two most important parameters. I'll give the hotkeys a try when I can, thanks.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

Thank you @M!nt and @ Sangoku I hope it fixes the problem, I'm going to try it immediately when I go home :D

 

[mixa]

mixa: training shieldbreak on the opponent is better because it doesn't have the disadvantage of the shield getting smaller.

I don't know what you mean here.

 

[Sangoku]

You hit a few times the shield, then miss. Now if you start nairing again the shield might break after 2 nairs (for example), which isn't good training. And even after you broke it, since it doesn't recover fully you'll break it sooner than needed.

 

[The Star King]

Gave in to the avy fad. Am I cool yet

shut up future Kero

I think everyone does.

IDK I think I would slightly prefer handshakes. Doesn't matter much to me though.

If you say "everyone" has a certain preference, there's always that one guy who feels the need to contradict you

shaya, megane-kun does not, evidently

sedda, i think you may be right. considering that after losing, noobs will throw paper and mango will just keep his coolin rock until they concede

But then Mango loses RPS! WHO'S THE REAL WINNER HERE?

 

[Skrlx]

It's not a fad. GOSH.

 

[The Star King]

THIS ISN'T A PHASE MOM. TIFA AND l ARE IN LOVE.

 

[Fireblaster]

So this saturday I went to a pretty crappy local tournament in CT for all 3 smash games. There was this one other player in the 64 bracket that seemed to know how to play. Turns out he was a player I remember from a while ago, Zero iXi, on kaillera. There was also like this 13 year old looking boy who had played me online very recently and I might have convinced an interested player into getting into 64 online.

Zero went nuts when I told him that Killer lived in Stamford. He had no idea that they both lived in the same town.

Worst part of the tournament was the asshole TO (Just some chump that works at the gaming store that hosted the tournament) that wouldn't let me use my 22 inch CRT for ssb64 because it was "too small" and instead he wanted to use the big widescreen HDTV at the venue. Several other players and I were trying to explain to him how lag severely affected the game and he just deflected those concerns with "You just gotta compensate for the lag man". As the venue was closing up, I was explaining to someone else who asked why smash players prefer CRT's. In the middle of my explanation, the TO bursts in with "Yeah there's some lag or something but it's very insignificant and unnoticeable".

****ing douche. How can you work at a retro gaming store and give out false information like that?

 

[NovaSmash]

I remember Zero iXi aka Jin iXi, he was pretty good, thought he quit smash completely.

 

[Sedda]

Some training workshop idea:
-mixa's Yoshi shieldbreak
-any other shieldbreak
-any combo
-parry: having an opponent constantly doing the same attack like Samus charge shot.
-DI

This is a really nice idea to practice those aspects of the game specifically. These are the kinda things that you can miss in games because there isn't any reliable way of practicing them. I can't help you guys make this, but I know it would help players out for sure.
Things like random tech'ing (or no tech) practice for new players to learn how to tech chase on reaction and cover options. I cant remember if lvl 9 cpus tech at all.

 

[bloodpeach]

CPUs tech.

I've actually been toying with the idea of a training program for a while. But it'd be a lot of effort and wouldn't be significantly better than cheat engine + save states.

Something I will probably actually build one day is a program to record, playback and compare inputs. Maybe when I have enough time and motivation to learn the Win32 API.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

How do I make a Gif as profile pic :3

 

[Madao]

CPUs tech.

I've actually been toying with the idea of a training program for a while. But it'd be a lot of effort and wouldn't be significantly better than cheat engine + save states.

Something I will probably actually build one day is a program to record, playback and compare inputs. Maybe when I have enough time and motivation to learn the Win32 API.

Lol not that I pay attention too often, but when do CPU's tech? I'm actually going to try observing the cpu right now lol.

Winapi isn't that hard or time consuming, unless you try to do fancy things. It's nice that you can use the same base for many winapi programs. I don't think writing an external program is reliable for input recording. Maybe you know something I don't, but how can you guarantee frame by frame recording precision? My suggestion would be to have it built into the emulator, kind of like the krec recording thing.

This might be a silly question, but what do you mean by compare inputs?

 

[Sangoku]

They tech when they fall from really high or something like that.

 

[Sedda]

Yeah I don't practice with cpu's because I feel like they never tech lol

 

[AtotheZ]

Yeah I don't practice with cpu's because I feel like they never tech lol

That actually threw off my game vs irl players, I would continue attacking and miss them while they tech, instead of waiting for the tech and punishing properly.

 

[rjgbadger]

How do I make a Gif as profile pic :3

you can't do this anymore. you used to be able to rename your gif as a jpeg, and it would still be animated on the site. They fixed that recently, though. :'c

 

[Fireblaster]

How do I make a Gif as profile pic :3

PM me the image you want as profile pic

 

[bloodpeach]

Lol not that I pay attention too often, but when do CPU's tech? I'm actually going to try observing the cpu right now lol.

Winapi isn't that hard or time consuming, unless you try to do fancy things. It's nice that you can use the same base for many winapi programs. I don't think writing an external program is reliable for input recording. Maybe you know something I don't, but how can you guarantee frame by frame recording precision? My suggestion would be to have it built into the emulator, kind of like the krec recording thing.

This might be a silly question, but what do you mean by compare inputs?

Frame by frame precisionis a big hangup. I think it should be possible with some small modifications to an input plugin though. I'm hesitant to mess with anything within the emulator thoug; it's already unstable enough.

By comparing inputs I meant comparing the timing between input sequences. So like if your training against a recorded combo, you can see that you pressed a button late or early or whatever.

 

[Madao]

Actually I just realized it's more simple than I thought, although it isn't a guarantee that it will be absolutely perfect. You could simply keep track of a frame counter variable in the game lol. So you can ignore what I previously said about building it into the emulator. In fact I don't even tihnk pj64k was open source, although I'd be glad if I was wrong, because then I'd be more likely able to port Kailera to PJ64 1.6.

I've already messed with winapi to try and make a few external ssb64 tools. For my combo counter (it's pretty bootleg xD), I had a temporary variable that checked to see if the value changed for the combo counter variable (this was to remove redundancy and only call the display function when the value changes).

I guess I somewhat had the right idea about your comparing the inputs. I was wondering how you will display it. I'm guessing a basic frame chart?

Another question is, what emulator are you designing this program for? Since different emulators have different addresses for the n64 ram data. PJ64 is a hassle because the memory location is not static, I had to hex edit a non packed version of pj64 to get static addresses. Fortunately pj64kve isn't packed so I was able to hex edit that one.

If you're actually serious about this, I can help with winapi or ssb64 memory related stuff. I wouldn't know how you could playback these inputs though.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

@M!nt ok so I downloaded it and when I try to play PJ64k it says this :

Any solutions?

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

My old project 64k just fixed itself! But if you can still help me with the new that'd be great too, recording games sounds awesome!