Sangoku
Smash Master
I don't think Samus is that bad either, but comboing with her is still really difficult and anecdotal.
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Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!
- Thread starter craiigg
- Start date
NovaSmash
Banned via Administration
It seems like Michigan State is ranked in the top 5 every preseason and they end up have an "ok" season. They do usually do well in the tourney tho. One stat that caught my eye was that every 4 year player under Tom Izzo has made it to the final four.
I'm rooting for Dayton just because they are from my home state of Ohio and not far from Cincinnati where I grew up.
Shears
Smash Master
Samus for God tier.
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
lol. See, I don't approve of this opinion at all. That we like it just because nostalgia.
I never grew up with this game. I only ever played it competitively. When I first started playing online in 2009, that was literally the first time I touched the game in my life, and I quickly loved it. For me, it simply cannot be nostalgia. Nice try though.
edit: replied to this immediately upon seeing it so I didn't see mixa's reply. I see I have a friend
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TANK64
Smash Lord
Yeah I think the nostalgia thing was a joke.
...I hope.
...I hope.
NovaSmash
Banned via Administration
Don't join the douche chat.....I mean skype chat unless you like being harassed by ******s like stranded.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
i guess stranded plays with 90% range
KeroKeroppi
Smash Champion
Sup y'all? KeroKeroppi here. Reporting in from the Kam Fung parking lot.
How's everybody doing?
I just ordered a bunch of Chinese food with my gramps. What do you guys prefer when you get chinese?
I have a few favorites. I love crab rangoons, fried dumplings, and spicy chicken & broccoli.
I'll tell ya, Kam Fung has the best chinese around.
Anyway, I gotta run. I need to make it home in time to catch Marky Mark host the Kids Choice Awards.
I'll see you guys around! Cashbah!
-Kero the Great
How's everybody doing?
I just ordered a bunch of Chinese food with my gramps. What do you guys prefer when you get chinese?
I have a few favorites. I love crab rangoons, fried dumplings, and spicy chicken & broccoli.
I'll tell ya, Kam Fung has the best chinese around.
Anyway, I gotta run. I need to make it home in time to catch Marky Mark host the Kids Choice Awards.
I'll see you guys around! Cashbah!
-Kero the Great
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asianaussie
Smash Hero
call me crazy, but i actually prefer the japanese-style potstickers (gyoza?) to the chinese ones - for some reason, the thin skin goes over better with me when seared
rangoons arent very chinese, but then again the american versions of sweet-n-sour pork and mongolian beef are also heavily americanised (one time i got cheese in my mongolian beef over there... wut)
chinese food is pretty good on the whole though, having a favourite local joint is always a great fallback
see kero, your posts would be good if you didnt add cashbah and god complex into the mix
rangoons arent very chinese, but then again the american versions of sweet-n-sour pork and mongolian beef are also heavily americanised (one time i got cheese in my mongolian beef over there... wut)
chinese food is pretty good on the whole though, having a favourite local joint is always a great fallback
see kero, your posts would be good if you didnt add cashbah and god complex into the mix
mixa
Banned via Warnings
i go play a tourney match
we decide dl
he picks puff out of his own volition before i say anything
i think lol ok (thank god i don't have to explain double blind to him)
and pick fox
he immediately switches to falcon and presses start
???????
oohoho ur so smart, such a trickster
****ing online chumps
we decide dl
he picks puff out of his own volition before i say anything
i think lol ok (thank god i don't have to explain double blind to him)
and pick fox
he immediately switches to falcon and presses start
???????
oohoho ur so smart, such a trickster
****ing online chumps
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
Just played the defending VGC champ and lost 2-1
it was a fun set
sry mixa, I think I've done the same thing without thinking about it
it was a fun set
sry mixa, I think I've done the same thing without thinking about it
asianaussie
Smash Hero
just curious, do you think there's anything that makes VGC a better competitive format than singles (not necessarily smogon OU, just singles)?
aside from the obvious fact that singles has no prize support from almighty nintendo
aside from the obvious fact that singles has no prize support from almighty nintendo
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
I haven't played a whole lot of singles, aside from OU in 4th gen, as well as some local tourneys and playing with some locals around that time
That being said, despite my lack of singles knowledge I do think it is a better competitive format for a few reasons (aside form the prize support)
First and foremost, most things that are considered inherently broken in Singles is not the case in doubles. Although the likes of Rotom-W, Mega Kangaskhan, Charizard Y can be hard to beat, the fact that you can have 2 checks/counters to something like that on the field at once really limits their sweeping potential (though it is still very noticeable). If you think of a combination that seems broken in doubles, you can probably think of a pair that can take care of it in some way or another.
Second, I think it has more depth than singles for a few reasons. One reason is the new combinations and synergies you can get with two pokemon on the field. A well built doubles team is usually able to lead any combination it has, even if it has some auto leads in mind. With 6 pokemon you can thus lead with a combination of up to 15 different leads, though not every team tends to do this. That being said, you now have to be able to not only prepare for each of those pokemon on their own, but also prepare for what they can do when paired up with its partners. In the case of VGC, you can only bring 4 of your 6 pokemon, so a big part of the game is being able to optimize your team and bring the 4 that will do the most work in a game. I think that also makes Best of 3 play a lot more viable, since it opens up some strategies you wouldn't see in singles, such as scaring off a pokemon altogether just with team preview, or baiting a pokemon to make an appearance that you have an answer to, that your opponent might not realize/account for. Another interesting part of the bring pick 6 bring 4 play is that a number of successful teams have opted for 2 mega evolutions on a team, since in theory they will only need one of each based on a matchup.
Metagames also differ by region, and with all the tournaments between the US, Japan, and Europe, each metagame progresses fairly quickly. The regions are somewhat close as well, having translators for each region and connections in general. There are a lot of grassroots tournaments in between official sanctioned events which are normally streamed or recorded, and give a lot of information to feed off of for your own play. Japan has a TON of tournaments, and the top placing opponents will usually write an article and post the spreads/sets/combinations they used as well. An example of the US metagame effecting the metagame as a whole is when the winner of Virginia regionals won using an specially defensive bulky Mega Mawile, being able to take double attacks, and things such as specs fireblast(er) from Salamence, and KO a lot of things in return with its outrageous attack. This was picked up just about everywhere afterwards.
In person tourneys are better for me anyways, sure I can grind all day doing an online simulator or doing battlespot, but I'm never as IN THE ZONE when I do so.
I have a question for the singles players though. Do ev spreads ever get a little crazy? I almost never use 252/252 spreads as long as I'm not using an all out sweeper.
That being said, despite my lack of singles knowledge I do think it is a better competitive format for a few reasons (aside form the prize support)
First and foremost, most things that are considered inherently broken in Singles is not the case in doubles. Although the likes of Rotom-W, Mega Kangaskhan, Charizard Y can be hard to beat, the fact that you can have 2 checks/counters to something like that on the field at once really limits their sweeping potential (though it is still very noticeable). If you think of a combination that seems broken in doubles, you can probably think of a pair that can take care of it in some way or another.
Second, I think it has more depth than singles for a few reasons. One reason is the new combinations and synergies you can get with two pokemon on the field. A well built doubles team is usually able to lead any combination it has, even if it has some auto leads in mind. With 6 pokemon you can thus lead with a combination of up to 15 different leads, though not every team tends to do this. That being said, you now have to be able to not only prepare for each of those pokemon on their own, but also prepare for what they can do when paired up with its partners. In the case of VGC, you can only bring 4 of your 6 pokemon, so a big part of the game is being able to optimize your team and bring the 4 that will do the most work in a game. I think that also makes Best of 3 play a lot more viable, since it opens up some strategies you wouldn't see in singles, such as scaring off a pokemon altogether just with team preview, or baiting a pokemon to make an appearance that you have an answer to, that your opponent might not realize/account for. Another interesting part of the bring pick 6 bring 4 play is that a number of successful teams have opted for 2 mega evolutions on a team, since in theory they will only need one of each based on a matchup.
Metagames also differ by region, and with all the tournaments between the US, Japan, and Europe, each metagame progresses fairly quickly. The regions are somewhat close as well, having translators for each region and connections in general. There are a lot of grassroots tournaments in between official sanctioned events which are normally streamed or recorded, and give a lot of information to feed off of for your own play. Japan has a TON of tournaments, and the top placing opponents will usually write an article and post the spreads/sets/combinations they used as well. An example of the US metagame effecting the metagame as a whole is when the winner of Virginia regionals won using an specially defensive bulky Mega Mawile, being able to take double attacks, and things such as specs fireblast(er) from Salamence, and KO a lot of things in return with its outrageous attack. This was picked up just about everywhere afterwards.
In person tourneys are better for me anyways, sure I can grind all day doing an online simulator or doing battlespot, but I'm never as IN THE ZONE when I do so.
I have a question for the singles players though. Do ev spreads ever get a little crazy? I almost never use 252/252 spreads as long as I'm not using an all out sweeper.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
I honestly felt the biggest pro of doubles formats is that they are incredibly fast, making swiss rounds far easier to manage.
And as for your other points, I feel that most of the new combinations and synergies you get with multiple pokemon is merely an aspect of doubles, not an inherent advantage. There are plenty of things that you can only do in singles, and many incredibly powerful effects in doubles are significantly stymied in singles too. Additionally, VGC experts I've talked to have agreed with me that the most common (and arguably most viable) playstyle in doubles is offensive, for obvious reasons. Balance and stall strategies and mostly unviable, and while many moves do become much better (rock slide, heat wave), many moves become inherently worse (hazards, phazing), which is something that you should never overlook. As for things like megastone mindgames, those are hardly unique to doubles (running multiple mega-capable pokemon is obviously common, though I don't know if you would actually run double stones on a singles team).
The entire idea of 'broken' things in singles as compared to doubles is a rather meh argument imo, if Smogon were in charge of VGC I have no doubt there would be some bans set in place, if only for the sake of diversity. Additionally, metagame advancement is rapid in any game with changing formats and prestigious awards, so I don't believe that's anything unique to VGC as much as it's unique to a competitive game with prizes.
I'll admit that the pick-4 bit is very interesting, but in the end that still doesn't change the fact that team evaluation is no less important a skill in singles - in VGC, you would think 'more than half his team is OHKOed by my Mega-Manectric, but if his Garchomp is scarfed then...', whereas in singles you could have exactly the same train of thought, and change your playstyle and moves rather than the initial pokemon you send out. Again, this is a difference in game speed; VGC games finish in like 5 or 6 turns much of the time, but my point is that team preview brings a new dimension to singles as well as doubles.
As for EV spreads, back in ADV EV spreads really differed on many things, same for a lot of DPPt balance/stall teams, but from 5th gen on I saw a bit of a dumbing down in most Pokemon's EV spreads. Sometimes things just hit too damn hard.
Note: I'm not calling VGC players out or anything, but it's interesting to get perspectives from competitive players from other regions.
And as for your other points, I feel that most of the new combinations and synergies you get with multiple pokemon is merely an aspect of doubles, not an inherent advantage. There are plenty of things that you can only do in singles, and many incredibly powerful effects in doubles are significantly stymied in singles too. Additionally, VGC experts I've talked to have agreed with me that the most common (and arguably most viable) playstyle in doubles is offensive, for obvious reasons. Balance and stall strategies and mostly unviable, and while many moves do become much better (rock slide, heat wave), many moves become inherently worse (hazards, phazing), which is something that you should never overlook. As for things like megastone mindgames, those are hardly unique to doubles (running multiple mega-capable pokemon is obviously common, though I don't know if you would actually run double stones on a singles team).
The entire idea of 'broken' things in singles as compared to doubles is a rather meh argument imo, if Smogon were in charge of VGC I have no doubt there would be some bans set in place, if only for the sake of diversity. Additionally, metagame advancement is rapid in any game with changing formats and prestigious awards, so I don't believe that's anything unique to VGC as much as it's unique to a competitive game with prizes.
I'll admit that the pick-4 bit is very interesting, but in the end that still doesn't change the fact that team evaluation is no less important a skill in singles - in VGC, you would think 'more than half his team is OHKOed by my Mega-Manectric, but if his Garchomp is scarfed then...', whereas in singles you could have exactly the same train of thought, and change your playstyle and moves rather than the initial pokemon you send out. Again, this is a difference in game speed; VGC games finish in like 5 or 6 turns much of the time, but my point is that team preview brings a new dimension to singles as well as doubles.
As for EV spreads, back in ADV EV spreads really differed on many things, same for a lot of DPPt balance/stall teams, but from 5th gen on I saw a bit of a dumbing down in most Pokemon's EV spreads. Sometimes things just hit too damn hard.
Note: I'm not calling VGC players out or anything, but it's interesting to get perspectives from competitive players from other regions.
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AtotheZ
Smash Lord
Thankfully if Garchomp is scarfed, EQ won't KO Mega Manectric after Intimidate in doubles (thank you based spread damage reduction)
You are right that the speed is definitely a reason for doubles, especially with every match in VGC being under a 15 minute timer with a 45 second clock, making decision/play time a lot less than if it were a normal flat rules double match (1 hour for the match, 100 seconds per move). And though stall strategies may look mostly unviable at first glance, they can actually be incredibly viable in a format where you have to face the timer as well. In 2012, Worlds runner up Wolfe Glick RNG'd his whole team to be shiny (animations are counted on the clock), made his team incredibly bulky, and incorporated recovery options like Chestorest and Lefties. He also had some other cool combos, such as Leaf Storm/Power Swap Exeggutor to either give the opponent his -2 or Swap for their intimidate to reactivate it. He's mainly the reason they added 5 minutes to the clock the year after, which did help a little, but I had some matches go to time myself using things like Recover Jellicent which is incredibly hard to break when its counters are out of the way.
More recently a Japanese player used the likes of Slack Off Hippowdon and Roost Mega Aerodactyl to win a tourney, and while he did still have sweeping options in Mega Aero and Scarf Hydreigon, having the stall portion as an option clearly helped in some of his matches.
I personally do prefer the little to no bans for VGC, although I recognize it as different for Singles. Dark Void Smeargle is unhealthy for the metagame though, so I wouldn't mind that being banned again. Still, without bans the metagame is relatively diverse, usually the Worlds metagame is the most centralized and even then there are a lot of viable team archetypes that can do incredibly well.
Playstyle and move changes are still very common in Doubles, not as much in a Best of 1 setting, but for Best of 3 scouting for team items/gimmicks and adapting to the opponents play style is just as important as it is in singles. As short lived as a single match is I often have to switch up my play style or even scout for certain items/moves in one match in order to get a W.
Also, most VGC matches are closer to ~10 turns, 5 or 6 turn matches would be either games where someone gets swept from the get go or is not playing defensively at all.
Here are some of the articles I was talking about if you're interested, the Hippowdon one has some showcase battles as well.
http://www.eggyemporium.com/slider/...ade-offline-tournament-1st-place-team-report/
http://nuggetbridge.com/reports/eggscelent-execution/
You are right that the speed is definitely a reason for doubles, especially with every match in VGC being under a 15 minute timer with a 45 second clock, making decision/play time a lot less than if it were a normal flat rules double match (1 hour for the match, 100 seconds per move). And though stall strategies may look mostly unviable at first glance, they can actually be incredibly viable in a format where you have to face the timer as well. In 2012, Worlds runner up Wolfe Glick RNG'd his whole team to be shiny (animations are counted on the clock), made his team incredibly bulky, and incorporated recovery options like Chestorest and Lefties. He also had some other cool combos, such as Leaf Storm/Power Swap Exeggutor to either give the opponent his -2 or Swap for their intimidate to reactivate it. He's mainly the reason they added 5 minutes to the clock the year after, which did help a little, but I had some matches go to time myself using things like Recover Jellicent which is incredibly hard to break when its counters are out of the way.
More recently a Japanese player used the likes of Slack Off Hippowdon and Roost Mega Aerodactyl to win a tourney, and while he did still have sweeping options in Mega Aero and Scarf Hydreigon, having the stall portion as an option clearly helped in some of his matches.
I personally do prefer the little to no bans for VGC, although I recognize it as different for Singles. Dark Void Smeargle is unhealthy for the metagame though, so I wouldn't mind that being banned again. Still, without bans the metagame is relatively diverse, usually the Worlds metagame is the most centralized and even then there are a lot of viable team archetypes that can do incredibly well.
Playstyle and move changes are still very common in Doubles, not as much in a Best of 1 setting, but for Best of 3 scouting for team items/gimmicks and adapting to the opponents play style is just as important as it is in singles. As short lived as a single match is I often have to switch up my play style or even scout for certain items/moves in one match in order to get a W.
Also, most VGC matches are closer to ~10 turns, 5 or 6 turn matches would be either games where someone gets swept from the get go or is not playing defensively at all.
Here are some of the articles I was talking about if you're interested, the Hippowdon one has some showcase battles as well.
http://www.eggyemporium.com/slider/...ade-offline-tournament-1st-place-team-report/
http://nuggetbridge.com/reports/eggscelent-execution/
asianaussie
Smash Hero
I have to admit I have little to no personal experience in VGC, but that's actually quite interesting. Especially Exeggutor... I never thought Power Swap would have a use in doubles when it's hardly functional in singles.
Those articles were interesting. Not interesting enough to make me pick up VGC (time issues tbh), but they have raised my somewhat skewed opinion of the format somewhat. Each to their own, I guess.
Those articles were interesting. Not interesting enough to make me pick up VGC (time issues tbh), but they have raised my somewhat skewed opinion of the format somewhat. Each to their own, I guess.
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
Yeah, it's definitely an interesting format to explore. If you ever feel a bit more interested feel free to shoot me a message on here if you want to battle/test stuff out/ask any questions
Shears
Smash Master
You forgot about the people that accuse you of using macros because you beat them or the people that fake DS when they screw up and start losing. Also the douchebags that quit the second they get one win even if its against a secondary and then start talking **** despite losing the previous 10 matches. Smash should be played on console, because then if someone pulls gay **** you can just physically beat their ass. Damn commies, smh...
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
Sometimes.
Seeing these two juxtaposed made me laugh.
Accusing people of macros and accusing people of fake DS are similar in that 99% of these accusations are false.
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KeroKeroppi
Smash Champion
lol check out these novices
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
I can still do a back tuck on flat ground
Lol nick in his glory days.
rjgbadger
Banned via Warnings
why wear shoes on a trampoline? I never wore shoes on the trampoline when I had one as a kid
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
There are some beginner articles here, but I never read them
http://nuggetbridge.com/beginners/
I just got good by grinding showdown/battlespot, watching videos of good players, and reading articles here http://nuggetbridge.com/ and here http://www.eggyemporium.com/
For good battles/analysis in the form of videos I'd check out these guys
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAEIgjwXkuzwmkdgvuX3n5w/featured
https://www.youtube.com/user/CybertronProductions/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=1
https://www.youtube.com/user/nuggetbridge
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC98jx4xfo_g5V58OjZ0OAgw/videos
Some streams as well
http://nuggetbridge.com/forums/streams/
From the streams, I'd keep my eye on Pokeman_Academy, NYC Elite 4, Yoshi_x3, NB_Nostrom, Daflo1860, nuggetbridge and Bearsfan092
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncTU_VkwTCQ so I found this video.....wat
Sedda
Smash Champion
What is going on!!
KeroKeroppi
Smash Champion
nmu
Got a job potentially with the NBA or Bank of 'Murrica decisions decisions
NovaSmash
Banned via Administration
NBA as in the National Basketball Association?
TempleofDreams
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 16
Shears
Smash Master
So @
KuroganeHammer
couldn't lock them.
KuroganeHammer
couldn't lock them.
hello.So @
Oh, that reminds me actually. I need to check out all of 64's Frame Data.
mixa
Banned via Warnings
he's becoming more and more japanese with each passing day