Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!

[KeroKeroppi]

Anybody see any good movies lately?

 

[Madao]

Lol I would have never expected so many people to be against Z cancelling, considering this version has the best Z cancelling. Bigger frame window (assuming people aren't wrong about melee only having 6), and shorter landing lag.

Lets be real here, it's all subjective whether or not Z cancelling is good. It's all about preference. It's one thing to be against it, but to say it has reduced the player base, is going too far. I've played this game for many years and I didn't start Z cancelling until a year ago lol. In fact, I used to be against Z cancelling, because I'm like "I don't want to have to always press Z everytime I land". Then I got more into this game (a year ago) after taking a long break. I decided to try and master this game, so i practiced Z cancelling. After mastering it, I realised how much more fun it was. Maybe I'm just weird, but I like games where you have to time button presses, as long as it's not too much. Games like Super Mario RPG are fun partially because of things like this.

As the creator of the auto Z cancel code, I've played around with auto Z cancelling and it wasn't as fun imo lol. The only way it would be more fun for me is if I was playing against someone who doesn't / isn't good at Z cancelling or if I'm playing against the cpu. I do wish I knew a convenient code to allow auto Z cancelling to specific players because I like giving weaker opponents a chance to win .

Idk why people say the frame window for Z Cancelling is 20. You guys should try messing with the Z Cancelling frame window code, if anyone is curious about it.

 

[Vale]

I hope that the guys working on the 64 mod for brawl (if they still are) come up with something like that. If not, might as well play 64 only.

If anything, I think auto z-cancels would be the best option. Changing the mechanic to be the reverse-cancel idea that people have suggested for the fringe cases such as Jigglypuff dair seems like it would be much harder to implement. I would like for you to explain why z-cancelling alone is a make-or-break point in playing the mod or just 64, though.

As for the progress of Reality 64, we started figuring stuff out a month or so ago and made a dent in what we needed to get done. However, it slowed down after that. Our current goal is animation changes, but none of us are really masters of it. We've also had difficulty contacting the people who have already done these kinds of mods to see if we can use their work. I personally want to say that after we get this done we could release a "this probably isn't that close but look at what we've done so far" demo, but nobody else seems on board with it.

 

[tehz]

And I can guarantee that doing that will not make a major boost in attendance. Seriously, most of you people who want z cancelling gone are just bad players and think everyone is as bad as you and needs a crutch to get better at ssb64.

I don't think most of the anti-z canceling people are incompetent players who can't imagine people who can click buttons faster than they can. It has much more to do with the lack of depth that z canceling adds to the game (aka "ya gotta do it everytime" argument).

It's a shame that 64's Z-canceling system was replaced by Melee's lame L-canceling. If Z-canceling aerials had more situations like Jigglypuff d-air, it would be amazing. Such wasted potential.

I personally know people that don't play smash64 any more and part of the reason is z canceling. I have friends that have other things to do besides practice Z cancels for a week so that I could even start teaching them how to really play.

I am kinda confused with this argument, though. I feel like there are many harder, more necessary tech skills (like smash attacks or short hops) that a new player would have to learn to get into base level competitive 64. Z-canceling isn't SK's Quarter-Circle-Back-L-R-C-Left-Canceling, so pure inputs aren't a problem. The inputs are the same as teching, and no one is saying that learning to tech is holding back community growth.

I also think Z-canceling is well designed to be learned in-game. It is very similar to teching: the situation (coming from air to ground) and input (...Z) are the same. I don't really know about the frame timing, although I feel tech-ing might have a larger frame window (20 to 11?). Most aerial moves have good feedback on whether or not you performed a z-cancel (not as good as P:M's flash, though. Also, not as good as teching). Finally, the increased mobility that comes from learning z-cancels (aka seeing that they could beat down other, less skilled players easier) should provide meta-outside-the-game reinforcement.

Basically, I said all of that to kinda maybe show that learning Z-cancelling should in no way be what stops a new player from moving from ******* around with friends to playing "competitively" or at a high level. It may be the first tech-skill a newer player has to truly choose to practice, and they might not want to take Super Mario Fighters 64 that seriously, but the actual physical requirement of pressing Z and learning the skill wouldn't be the problem.

[Woow, z-canceling arguments are dumb D:]

 

[Combo Blaze]

you can just spam z in this game, you dont even have to time it (although accidental shields would happen)

its dum

 

[ballin4life]

And I can guarantee that doing that will not make a major boost in attendance. Seriously, most of you people who want z cancelling gone are just bad players and think everyone is as bad as you and needs a crutch to get better at ssb64.

Obviously having an auto z cancel code at one tournament would not lead to any major boost in attendence (plus people who go to tournaments are typically already good anyway)

Your second sentence indicates to me that you are not paying attention. People who are good at smash64 are already able to z cancel very well. It is only an impediment to newcomers.

Lets be real here, it's all subjective whether or not Z cancelling is good. It's all about preference. It's one thing to be against it, but to say it has reduced the player base, is going too far. I've played this game for many years and I didn't start Z cancelling until a year ago lol. In fact, I used to be against Z cancelling, because I'm like "I don't want to have to always press Z everytime I land". Then I got more into this game (a year ago) after taking a long break. I decided to try and master this game, so i practiced Z cancelling. After mastering it, I realised how much more fun it was. Maybe I'm just weird, but I like games where you have to time button presses, as long as it's not too much. Games like Super Mario RPG are fun partially because of things like this.

Hey look, someone who played this game "for many years" and had never even heard of z canceling. For every person like you there are several who remain in the dark, or decide not to spend the time learning. These people then can't even begin to try all the crazy combos and tactics that make this game fun to me.

I am kinda confused with this argument, though. I feel like there are many harder, more necessary tech skills (like smash attacks or short hops) that a new player would have to learn to get into base level competitive 64. Z-canceling isn't SK's Quarter-Circle-Back-L-R-C-Left-Canceling, so pure inputs aren't a problem. The inputs are the same as teching, and no one is saying that learning to tech is holding back community growth.

Teching is much easier for a newcomer to learn. You also don't have to tech every 2 seconds in the game. You DO need to Z cancel all the time so a new player pretty much has to spend a bunch more time learning Z canceling since it is used so frequently (compared to more difficult techs like shine canceling etc).

But my real point is that teching actually adds strategy, as do smash attacks and short hops. I never claimed that newcomers would have no tech skill to learn. But Z canceling is a useless barrier to newcomers.

Basically, I said all of that to kinda maybe show that learning Z-cancelling should in no way be what stops a new player from moving from ****ing around with friends to playing "competitively" or at a high level. It may be the first tech-skill a newer player has to truly choose to practice, and they might not want to take Super Mario Fighters 64 that seriously, but the actual physical requirement of pressing Z and learning the skill wouldn't be the problem.

It's not the hardest tech in the world, but it is a huge barrier between newcomers and experienced players. Newcomers can't even do moves the way an experienced player can!

It's especially bad in a game like smash bros that actually made many inputs easier compared to other fighting games. This decision by itself makes it much easier for a casual player to pick up smash since all the special moves are on B - you don't have to teach someone "Well for Mario you do quarter circle forward and B to do his fireball, but for Link you need to do half circle forward to do the boomerang, and for Falcon Punch you do a Z motion". Newcomers can just pick up and play smash bros much more easily.


Anyway this is a bit of a sore point for me because, like I've been alluding to, my friends used to play smash64 casually with me. But none of them want to spend a bunch of time practicing tech skill. So they eventually got frustrated with the fact that I can move way faster and now they don't play at all.

 

[NovaSmash]

It wasn't much of an impediment to me when I first started so I just don't understand how it could be that hard for other people.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzw6MqNgVow new yoshi clip from gonbenokuni, cool

 

[Madao]

Hey look, someone who played this game "for many years" and had never even heard of z canceling. For every person like you there are several who remain in the dark, or decide not to spend the time learning. These people then can't even begin to try all the crazy combos and tactics that make this game fun to me.

Anyway this is a bit of a sore point for me because, like I've been alluding to, my friends used to play smash64 casually with me. But none of them want to spend a bunch of time practicing tech skill. So they eventually got frustrated with the fact that I can move way faster and now they don't play at all.

Lol well ya in the beginning, I didn't know about Z cancelling, but I've known about it for a few years though. I just wasn't serious enough to actually practice it. I'll admit, I guess I had too much faith in humanity. That's a sorry reason to turn away from a game. It kind of reminds me how some of my favorite online games were unpopular due to people being too lazy to register... I now I understand your point of view after I see that you mention that you know people who don't play anymore because of it. That would be like a person quiting Mario Kart DS because they couldn't be bothered trying to learn how to snake. I remember playing that in high school and since most people didn't snake, I would just goof off and let people get ahead of me. Then I'd hustle and start abusing items while snaking and catch up :D .

The funny thing is, even back in the day, my bro used to Z cancel and he'd almost always beat me. I never even noticed LOL. I wish he hadn't kept so many secrets from me, especially considering he liked having a challenge. The irony was, he would have had more fun had he taught me xD.

What I get from these arguments is that Z Cancelling isn't noob friendly. That's the problem with people these days. All they seem to care about is winning, rather than having fun. Tbh I don't like noob friendly games. Even when I'm bad at a game that isn't noob friendly, I still enjoy them more. Now it kind of makes more sense why games like dive kick was successful.

I will agree that auto Z Cancelling would be more fun if you're playing against noobs. If not, then I'd prefer good old manual.

 

[Shears]

Are the melee boards and pm boards complaining about L-cancelling being a thing? I feel like at this point people are just complaining to complain. That necessary tech skill that is fairly simple to learn and perform and needs to be done every time, in my opinion, is important and its part of someones transformation into a competitive player. Its called form. Every sport has it and its something that needs to be done ALWAYS and is beneficial ALWAYS. There isn't ever a scenario where having bad form in shooting free throws was a good thing. Certainly you can succeed without good free throw form like you can succeed without good z-cancelling, but its always better to have good free throw form than bad free throw form like its always better to z-cancel than to not z-cancel. Removing z-cancelling is like making the game 100% mind games (inb4 someone says its 90% because there is still character matchups and stages etc. quit with the bull**** its effectively an attempt to bring the game towards the 100% mind game approach you damn commies). In track its not about who gives the most effort and who has the best muscles and who has the best turnover and reaction, its about who gives the most effort and who has the best muscles and who has the best turnover and reaction AND who has the best form. Two genetically equal runners give equal effort while at equal shape and conditioning, the winner will be the one with better form. Two smashers with equal mind games give equal effort playing equal characters, the winner will be the one with better form. Executing a combo with precision and accuracy is no different then executing a z-cancel with precision and accuracy. Its always good to z-cancel so z-cancelling is useless. Its always good to outspace your opponent and do damage into a combo that kills them, so outspacing your opponent and doing damage into a combo for a kill is useless. From now on, you communist anti-z-cancellors are not allowed to do combos or play the game, you take turns calling out what you will do and decide the game verbally like chess, you can frame advance the game so you can maintain a visual idea of whats happening without having to perfectly imagine it in your mind.

Don't make me start a thread and poll...

 

[Sedda]

If anything, I think auto z-cancels would be the best option. Changing the mechanic to be the reverse-cancel idea that people have suggested for the fringe cases such as Jigglypuff dair seems like it would be much harder to implement. I would like for you to explain why z-cancelling alone is a make-or-break point in playing the mod or just 64, though.

It's not "make-or-break" exactly, but it doesn't make sense competitively, which I forgive in the original game due to its age and its actual purpose. It's an unnecessary skill barrier, and if you have the ability to be in the year 2014 as we are, and look back at this game from OUR point of view (competitive) to change some things, Z cancelling would be the biggest one.

 

[clubbadubba]

It wasn't much of an impediment to me when I first started so I just don't understand how it could be that hard for other people.

Everyone here probably felt the exact same way when they started out that it wasn't too bad to learn. But for every person like you and me and anyone on this forum, there are a lot more people out there didn't want to put forth the effort to learn it because to most people practicing tech skill by yourself is boring. I can add to ballin's example's by saying that I've tried to teach multiple people but most people decide they would rather do something else than do training mode or vs computers. If people could skip a whole week of mundane training mode stuff a higher percentage of people would get past that initial tech barrier and start to learn the game.


In other news, have you guys seen that Northwestern University football players have won the right to unionize? I think its pretty cool and I totally agree with the decision. Universities threw away amateur athleticism when they started giving athletes scholarships. Partial amateurism doesn't work, just look at the olympics.

 

[Mr Bushido]

Anybody see any good movies lately?

Machete Kills was hilarious.

I personally enjoyed the Wolf of Wall Street quite a bit despite hearing how overrated it is. I also liked the redneck feel of Dallas Buyers Club.

Speaking of overrated, Gravity was total ****. So was American Hustle IMHO.

 

[yOLORIN]

Anybody see any good movies lately?

lone survivor, 12 years a slave, gravity, prisoners, oblivion, walter mitty are all great movies that isaw fairly recently

 

[Gammelnorsk]

frogtown II was a good movie

 

[Shears]

Lego Movie

 

[rpotts]

Machete Kills was hilarious.

I personally enjoyed the Wolf of Wall Street quite a bit despite hearing how overrated it is. I also liked the redneck feel of Dallas Buyers Club.

Speaking of overrated, Gravity was total ****. So was American Hustle IMHO.

Mr Bushido for Ebert-tier movie critic.

Wolf of Wall Street was good, but I just didn't feel like it went anywhere, especially given how much time they had to work with. Dallas Buyers Club was super good, just watched it the other night. Didn't even notice it was Jared Leto until my girlfriend pointed it out, he was so good. American Hustle was so bad I couldn't finish it. Heard Gravity was good but haven't seen it.

I want to go see Grand Budapest Hotel, a couple friends of mine tell me it's worth it.

 

[prisonchild]

I watched taken which I enjoyed, I don't usually watch movies and when I do I rarely watch thrillers/action movies.

I'm planning on watching the wolf of wall street though, I love leo

 

[KeroKeroppi]

Jared Leto is the ****ing man.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Wanna hear a cool story? About 2 weeks ago some drunk idiot tried to beat the **** out of me because my friend was looking at his girlfriend. He got kicked out of the establishment lol. But the guy was waiting for me outside when we left like 10 minutes later. What would you do if someone twice your size has you cornered and starts lunging at you?

Thankfully the idiot was from Massachusetts and couldn't comprehend what Live Free Or Die means lol.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Gravity is hella overrated. Special effects/direction were excellent of course but I found the acting to not be the best of either of them and the plot to be both sub-par and predictable.

Dallas Buyers Club and The Past were my favorites of the year.

 

[Cobrevolution]

something similar to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Bhl3yjzsQ

 

[Shears]

Punch him in the throat before he makes a move on you. Then when he gasps for breath, punch him in the nose and break it, the blood and tears along with gasping for breath will disarm him and make him useless. At this moment you run away.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Punch him in the throat before he makes a move on you. Then when he gasps for breath, punch him in the nose and break it, the blood and tears along with gasping for breath will disarm him and make him useless. At this moment you run away.

I play videogames and type all day; my strongest muscles are in my fingers lol

 

[Cobrevolution]

NO EXCUSES

 

[kys]

Wolf of Wall Street was good, but it felt like the last hour dragged, and the humor kept repeating itself. It was great for the first two hours, and then I was ready for it to be over.

Gravity was great because it was different. It was a refreshing movie experience, and the 3D was actually good. F the haters.

Dallas Buyer's Club was excellent. Great acting, told a great story, and it really felt like the late 1980s.

For guilty pleasures, I loved Escape Plan because it was Sylvester Stallone and ARNOLD in a movie that wasn't terrible. A decent choice on redbox if you find yourself free on a random weekday night.

 

[clubbadubba]

W.O.W.S. was based on a true story. It didn't ever feel like it ended or had anything to say, but hey that's what you get when you use real stories that don't have satisfying endings I guess.

karajan you should learn how to do Bruce Lee's finger punch

 

[Shears]

I'm pretty sure this was fingers only

Also you don't have to run away, if you can get one shot to the throat before he hits you, then a quick shot to the nose you are free to do whatever you want. Run away, kick him while hes down, push your thumbs through his eyes grab onto his skull and tear it in half vertically. Be creative and just have fun with it.

 

[Sangoku]

There are no muscle in your fingers.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

There are no muscle in your fingers.

Muscles move fingers. STOP FLAMING

 

[Sangoku]

You're welcome.

 

[The Star King]

Be creative and just have fun with it.

The true words of a madman.

 

[Battlecow]

Mud was hella good

I don't watch as many movies as I used to and it makes me sad, TFW no time

Am I the only one who feels like most TV is garbage? Not, like, these days--I think most people agree that we're in a golden age of television (dramatic TV, at least, and IMO comic as well) but just all time. There are a few good shows, but even the very good ones have major flaws when you compare them to the level of narrative deftness present in like a book or (more relevantly) a movie. Which sucks cuz shows have a lot more room to spread out and tell a complete story than movies cuz movies have 0 time in which to develop a character/plot

But the people running TV shows just suck, even on like HBO. Like I've been watching that show True Detective cuz my girl likes it but god damn it's stupid. Better than the shows that aren't super duper critically acclaimed (AKA 99% of shows) but still stupid. Cliché on cliché, all this pop "philosophy" that makes me wanna stick my finger down my throat, symbolism that face****s you with its obviousness, DUMB ****. Acting's good though.

Only truly great accomplishment in the history of the medium is The Wire.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

The only thing that you should be sticking down your throat is your Hori Pad.

 

[The Star King]

Most of any media is garbage. Something like books is much older, so we have the good ones that stood the test of time to read. The garbage doesn't get remembered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law

 

[Battlecow]

Good movies come out every year (AT LEAST a couple, maybe more)

Good books come out every month (it's easier to write a book than to produce a show, granted, but still)

There has been one truly good dramatic TV show in history, in my opinion (completely subjective, and I've also liked a couple of other shows in a slightly more guilty pleasure way). Sturgeon's law would apply if I was watching random crap/new shows/whatever, but I'm only even trying out the absolute cream of the crop, the critical darlings + popular hits. If I searched out the top movies and books of a given year using similar methods, I would almost certainly be entertained and impressed a majority of the time--I'm not that hard to please where those media are concerned, and in fact I haven't read a recent novel I didn't love in a long while. But TV just plain sucks when you compare it, probably because of budget constraints or the volume of work you have to produce or whatever

 

[Shears]

Breaking Bad was the last good show on television.

Does anyone watch The Walking Dead? That has to be the worst written, acted, and directed soap opera on television. Days of Our Lives has a better cast and more intriguing plot.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

Breaking Bad ****ing sucked.

 

[Battlecow]

Breaking bad was actually really good in parts (mostly in a cheap thrills kind of way), but it had big obvious flaws (mostly the female characters, but often in the pacing, etc) that made it unpalatable sometimes even as a guilty pleasure parts.

Like Walter Jr.'s big contrived emotional outbursts every couple episodes. Oh my god, could you get less interesting?

 

[Shears]

Breaking Bad ****ing sucked.

Your mom's face.

And Kirby.

If you're ok with comedies Family Guy and Its Always Sunny are great. Also Rick and Morty on Adult Swim is very quick paced, smart, and funny. I don't put comedies in the same rankings as other tv shows.