Actually, the reason I didn't take too long to respond was because it'd take too long, and I seriously did not want to spend more time than I did. You know I was late to Numerical Analysis because of this argument, and lost a bunch of important notes for the exam? Now you know. But fine, I'll go for it.
"some shot" does not equal bad shot. If you meant bad shot, then Samus and Jiggs shouldn't be included. There shouldn't be some vague "eh, it depends" if you're thinking about this seriously (then again, if you were thinking seriously you wouldn't say "recovery isn't important"). An average recovery for most doesn't mean a bad recovery for most.
Jiggs should be. Samus probably not. I'll get to Jiggs afterwards.
I'm saying eh it depends because there are too many variables for this. What character the opponent is using, if or not they're using Pikachu, or if they're recovering high or low. Its seriously different for each character, and not to mention there's no quantitative data except for personal experience.
Also, saying its average relative to the cast matters ****, since I'm saying the average is ****.
It's not great but it's above average. Jigg's floatiness and rising pound turn most medium recoveries into "high recoveries", whereas Link getting thrown the same distance would result in him effectively trying to go for a low recovery. I still think you're not getting the importance of falling speed factored in. Otherwise Samus's recovery would be bad as well.
I don't think you notice, but Jiggs first 3 jumps are low, and the last 2 make her lose height. She can't really get more height than what she's forced to recover from, and if she's pounding she's pretty much frozen herself for an easy edgeguard (and pound's range is pathetic in 64). If she wants to recover, she has to pound when she's a mile away, then jump only.
The real reason her recovery is bad though is mostly because of her range. Only nair is pretty good, and I don't know if recovery is the best time to nair.
You're only thinking of upB again. I'm talking about the whole idea of returning to the stage after getting knocked off it. And you ignored my point about how infrequently Link's upB is actually better compared to how many times it is worse. It's safe, sure, but it doesn't go far enough, and ultimately doesn't save as many lives. Other characters will make it back even if you edgeguard...you completely ignored most of my posts about countering and getting around edgeguards.
1) If it comes to second jumps, nearly every character will make it back except Ness (and Link will be within range), so that really doesn't matter for this.
2) Yes, I probably did. I tl;drd your whole post cause I felt lazy. I'll get to that later
3) If you're talking about predicting though, which you keep rehashing, I don't think you realize its fairly easy to prepare for multiple options. Not like there's many options to go for, unless you're recovering high. What are they? Drop and sweetspot, go straight for the stage? Fly back a bit and sweetspot? Pretty easy to prepare for.
We don't see people getting guaranteed deaths every time they get knocked off the edge. At ANY level of play. Going with your idea that good edgeguarding should prevent anyone from coming back totally contradicts the many videos of high level players where recoverers often DO come back. And if you think high level players aren't good edgeguarders, then I don't know why I'm even discussing this with you.
I will give in that you can recover if:
1) You're recovering high (nearly everyone will make it back)
2) You are within second jump range and was sent there from a distance and it will take time for them to get there. (nearly everyone will make it back)
Neither one of these show that recovery matters, because if nearly everyone can make it back in these situations, character balance in recovery, which is primarily what started it, is not affected by these.
Other than this, you're going to need to link me, because I don't even know who you consider high level players.
You're just taking the few points you find weak and responding to them, then conveniently disregarding the rest as "too long; didn't read". The point is, "recovery isn't important" is a ridiculous statement and you know it.
I mentioned it was laziness, but at the last sentence, I lold.
Okay, maybe you just don't know how to recover at all. You probably just wait until you're in range of the sweetspot, and then go for it and get owned. Or maybe you only play Link all the time, who doesn't really have a choice but to do that. If you're a good player, you'll realize there's more options than that (again unless you're Link). Note: Ness has huge spacing options, but his recovery is bad because is slow and predictable from any position, no matter how you space, fastfall, or sweetspot it.
Not much to say here, this is just here to increase the overwhelming length of the post and throw in a few petty insults.
You act like edgeguarding is infallible at stopping recoveries. This viewpoint is dead wrong and I doubt anyone but you is going to say otherwise (unless we're talking Ness/Falcon). Hell, there's a whole article on SmashWiki
dedicated to countering edgeguards (though they are missing a good deal, you get the point that recovery is serious business, not some joke).
...that article is for Brawl.
If you meant that recovery isn't important in comparison to say, avoiding and landing hits, then I totally agree with you. But you've got to admit making blanket statements like "recovery isn't important" is just silly
I mentioned I was exaggerating. It was actually to troll Hamburglar because it was pretty...********. I'm committing ad hominim, but he just up and compared it to ATs (and DJC even...wow), so I'm pretty sure he's not very good in the game.
@S2J - Probably. Its pretty weird, sometimes its easy to edgeguard, sometimes, he tricks you. Probably has one of the safer ones.
Oh, and Samus' recovery would be good if she could double jump after planting bombs. Planting a bomb kills her second jump so I've found. And I can concede on that, while having bad recovery matters little in 64, having good recovery is a very, very nice thing to have.
PS. Rap Music is smelly
. Feel free to ignore them--I'm just a compulsive responder.
