Social Social Thread - Please Read Last Post

[Wademan94]

This is the kind of mentality I’m talking about. We let it happen to our fictional characters and now people are doing the same thing to history’s literal biggest monsters.

Can you really not tell that he’s joking?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I mean


Murder is Murder.


Don't care if you wear a big symbol on your chest, you're still a murderer. Looking at you Hal Jordan.

What he did was wrong. Now he knows that. He’s admired to it and he’s been punished for it, he literally became The Spectre to serve penance for it. And he still lives with the guilt and does everything he can to make up for it... well... until Flash rebooted the universe.

 

[Shroob]

What he did was wrong. Now he knows that. He’s admired to it and he’s been punished for it, he literally became The Spectre to serve penance for it. And he still lives with the guilt and does everything he can to make up for it... well... until Flash rebooted the universe.

But he still did it.

You can throw someone in jail for life, they can find a new calling in life, admit what they did was wrong, and repent, but they still did it.


The title Hero is flimsy, because "Oh, the Hero's soooooorry, that's okay, we'll forgive what you did. You killed dozens? It's okay, see? He's repenting guys."

 

[TheCJBrine]

This is the kind of mentality I’m talking about. We let it happen to our fictional characters and now people are doing the same thing to history’s literal biggest monsters.

I’m being satirical (just I think Bowser genuinely loves Peach but has a childish/crazy way of trying to get in a relationship with her, and I do like to jokingly pretend he’s the good guy since he’s my favorite villain ).

By your logic I shouldn’t love Bowser at all, and definitely not Porky, our great King P.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Can you really not tell that he’s joking?

Man. It’s so hard to tell on the Internet when people are joking or not anymore. Things that should be jokes are people’s legitimate beliefs now.

But he still did it.

You can throw someone in jail for life, they can find a new calling in life, admit what they did was wrong, and repent, but they still did it.


The title Hero is flimsy, because "Oh, the Hero's soooooorry, that's okay, we'll forgive what you did. You killed dozens? It's okay, see? He's repenting guys."

weren’t you just trying to tell me about redemption arcs? It’s like your arguments did a 180 flip as soon as we came even close to agreeing.

And even then... he technically didn’t do it anymore. Because again, Flash rebooted the universe.

 

[Wademan94]

You also need to recognize that all the biggest monsters in history are still HUMAN. Don’t take this as me justifying any of their horrible actions, but you need to recognize if we continue to refer to these people as inhuman monsters, then we’ll fail to see any of their traits in us and that any one of us could turn out like them if we allow that to happen. It’s so easy to hate others, to cloud yourself in your own misguided perceptions, to give into fear and let it control our lives, which is why we need to work harder on being the best we can be, to look out for each other and for ourselves, to learn from our mistakes and grow from them. We’re all human, capable of great pain, but also capable of great love.

 

[Shroob]

Man. It’s so hard to tell on the Internet when people are joking or not anymore. Things that should be jokes are people’s legitimate beliefs now.

weren’t you just trying to tell me about redemption arcs? It’s like your arguments did a 180 flip as soon as we came even close to agreeing.

And even then... he technically didn’t do it anymore. Because again, Flash rebooted the universe.

What I'm saying is you put too much stock in what it means to be a Hero and what it means to be a villain. Morality is not black and white.


I say this with love, Snake, but this is your most "Video games inspire violence!" Mom-like point of yours it's ridiculous. Next you'll tell me you have a mini van.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I’m being satirical (just I think Bowser genuinely loves Peach but has a childish/crazy way of trying to get in a relationship with her, and I do like to jokingly pretend he’s the good guy since he’s my favorite villain ).

By your logic I shouldn’t love Bowser at all, and definitely not Porky, our great King P.

Again. LIKING a villain is not a problem. But AGREEING with them or thinking they aren’t evil and are just “misunderstood” is. Seeing the good in someone and trying to bring it out of them? Sure. Great. Former villain going on a redemption arc and becoming heroic? Fantastic! But that doesn’t make them any less evil in that original context.

 

[Shroob]

Again. LIKING a villain is not a problem. But AGREEING with them or thinking they aren’t evil and are just “misunderstood” is. Seeing the good in someone and trying to bring it out of them? Sure. Great. Former villain going on a redemption arc and becoming heroic? Fantastic! But that doesn’t make them any less evil in that original context.

I think the question here is:



Why does it matter? People aren't stupid, they can differentiate the heinous actions of dictators of the past and present... and Bowser.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

You also need to recognize that all the biggest monsters in history are still HUMAN. Don’t take this as me justifying any of their horrible actions, but you need to recognize if we continue to refer to these people as inhuman monsters, then we’ll fail to see any of their traits in us and that any one of us could turn out like them if we allow that to happen. It’s so easy to hate others, to cloud yourself in your own misguided perceptions, to give into fear and let it control our lives, which is why we need to work harder on being the best we can be, to look out for each other and for ourselves, to learn from our mistakes and grow from them. We’re all human, capable of great pain, but also capable of great love.

There is a fine line between what you’re describing and the kind of thing I’m against. At the moment, I think I can say that we agree. But in all of that learning and growing we have to be careful not to start agreeing with them, because that is also a sure fire way to become just like them. It’s a difficult balancing act.

What I'm saying is you put too much stock in what it means to be a Hero and what it means to be a villain. Morality is not black and white.


I say this with love, Snake, but this is your most "Video games inspire violence!" Mom-like point of yours it's ridiculous. Next you'll tell me you have a mini van.

And what I’m saying is it feels like your ignoring the actual content of my posts because I said something that upset you

 

[PLATINUM7]

I feel like the tragic hero would be an interesting spanner in the works for this discussion.

Again. LIKING a villain is not a problem. But AGREEING with them or thinking they aren’t evil and are just “misunderstood” is. Seeing the good in someone and trying to bring it out of them? Sure. Great. Former villain going on a redemption arc and becoming heroic? Fantastic! But that doesn’t make them any less evil in that original context.

Agree with them to what capacity? A villain can have agreeable ideals but go about fulfilling them in a bad way.

Also, I'm hesitant to even use bad the way I did. I wrote wrong way initially but changed it because things are subjective.

 

[Shroob]

There is a fine line between what you’re describing and the kind of thing I’m against. At the moment, I think I can say that we agree. But in all of that learning and growing we have to be careful not to start agreeing with them, because that is also a sure fire way to become just like them. It’s a difficult balancing act.

And what I’m saying is it feels like your ignoring the actual content of my posts because I said something that upset you

Except I'm not upset in the slightest.


I don't see the point as to why a character being evil matters. They don't exist, they're not real. Yet, this seems like such a big deal to you despite them being nothing more than drawings, or pixels. They don't actually exist.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I think the question here is:



Why does it matter? People aren't stupid, they can differentiate the heinous actions of dictators of the past and present... and Bowser.

Well I can’t think of any other reason why we have people marching in the streets chanting Nazi slogans, justifying the murder of innocent people, and thinking it’s okay to ignore people who need help for the sake of self enrichment.

 

[Shroob]

Well I can’t think of any other reason why we have people marching in the streets chanting Nazi slogans, justifying the murder of innocent people, and thinking it’s okay to ignore people who need help for the sake of self enrichment.

........so you're saying this is all because fictional bad guys exist?


Gee, I didn't realize Hitler never existed.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

........so you're saying this is all because fictional bad guys exist?


Gee, I didn't realize Hitler never existed.

It’s not because they exist. It’s because it wasn’t made clear that they are bad guys and are not to be agreed with lest you also become a bad guy. It’s because we made them to empathetic without also clearly delineating that their actions and beliefs are hurtful. Media is getting better about that. But it’s still not perfect and frankly the damage might already be done. Not to mention we still have the problem of the heroes in media stooping to the same lows as the villain and still coming out on top.

 

[Wademan94]

Okay, not everyone is stupid obviously, but you have to admit that there are too many stupid people in the world right now that it’s causing a lot of issues for everyone else.

We need to start using “too many _” as a response to “not all _”.

 

[Shroob]

It’s not because they exist. It’s because it wasn’t made clear that they are bad guys and are not to be agreed with lest you also become a bad guy. It’s because we made them to empathetic without also clearly delineating that their actions and beliefs are hurtful. Media is getting better about that. But it’s still not perfect and frankly the damage might already be done.

.......and if I play GTA5 tonight, I'm more likely to go into an Arbys and gun down the place, right?

 

[PLATINUM7]

People aren't stupid,

Spoiler: beeg image

I'm seeing an increasing amount of criticism of media these days that so much as presents something bad, even if the work condemns the actions it presents.

 

[ZephyrZ]

On a completely unrelated note, I've been fascinated by this amazing creature lately.

Everyone loves Octopi, Squids and Cuttlefish but the chambered Nautilus gives us a brief look into what the past ancestors of those things may have been like in life. They fill their shells with gas to control their buoyancy and help them float up and down, which is a remarkable piece of adaptation.

Really makes me want to go to some gift shop somewhere and buy an ammonite fossil. They're so common they can actually go for really cheap.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Is something up with Smashboards today? There's been a triple identical post and now a double identical post in a relatively short timespan.

EDIT: Make that two triples.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Is something up with Smashboards today? There's been a triple identical post and now a double identical post in a relatively short timespan.

EDIT: Make that two triples.

For me I know the issue is on my end. My laptop ends up having internet issues at around this time every night.

I had another tab open that was also struggling to load at the same time I made that triple post.

 

[Zinith]

ahem

EVIDENCE PLEASE!!!

 

[SnakeFighter64]

.......and if I play GTA5 tonight, I'm more likely to go into an Arbys and gun down the place, right?

Absolutely not. Two completely different things. Besides, at the age when those kinds of things can seriously hurt your development you shouldn’t even be playing Grand Theft Auto.

 

[Wademan94]

“It was then that, even for just a moment, peace had been achieved.”

 

[Shroob]

Absolutely not. Two completely different things. Besides, at the age when those kinds of things can seriously hurt your development you shouldn’t even be playing Grand Theft Auto.

I don't see how they're different at all.



I just think you got your soccer mom hat on to be blunt. Worrying that comic book villains or Nintendo villains are out here corrupting the youth is the same as worrying about video games corrupting the youth.

 

[Metal Shop X]

How funny that you should post this like 4 days after I started feeling a wave of nostalgia for Undertale and Deltarune. I'm glad you loved them! They really are amazing games. Also, good news about Deltarune: I checked Toby's Twitter and he said that development of Deltarune is going well. Hopefully we'll play the finished game like, I dunno, three years from now if I had to guess.

Yeah, saw that tweet some days ago, and honestly, might be a bit cheesy, but it made me really happy to see him being so, well, excited for the game!

In the chaos that is 2020, it's always nice to see peoples still trying their best to make others have a goooood time, ya know what i'm sayin'?

Brief, hope it continue well for him. Tho, can we get a update with images or stuff on October? Plz Toby?

 

[Aurane]

Dude I'm so worried about the boy down the street playing Super Mario because he's gonna be inspired by Bowser and burn my house down and leave turtles everywhere. My god, this generation is out of control.

 

[Zinith]

Absolutely not. Two completely different things. Besides, at the age when those kinds of things can seriously hurt your development you shouldn’t even be playing Grand Theft Auto.

........................

....okay. Snake, I think there's an individual you might want to get super familiar with before you get in "media debates"

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I don't see how they're different at all.



I just think you got your soccer mom hat on to be blunt. Worrying that comic book villains or Nintendo villains are out here corrupting the youth is the same as worrying about video games corrupting the youth.

Then you explain this **** that’s going on! You explain why people think it’s okay to murder another human being under any circumstances. You explain why people think discrimination is okay and that people in minority groups deserve the ****ty treatment they get from society. You explain why literal Nazis have a controlling voice in our government. You explain why people think it’s okay to let people starve and die on the streets just so they don’t have to pay more taxes. Because the only explanation I can think of is that something ****ed up these people during their developmental phase.

 

[PLATINUM7]

There certainly are pieces of media that encourage people to do bad things.

They tend to be propaganda.

For things like cartoons and games, you need to do what Zinith keeps saying and provide evidence that they actually caused someone to do something.

Also, just because I'm doing an education degree, I read a lot on how people learn to do subtle things from media (well, just about anything really) but they are far and removed from the villainous things we are talking about.

 

[Wademan94]

I didn’t think it’d be possible to see a miracle happen twice in one day...

 

[SnakeFighter64]

........................

....okay. Snake, I think there's an individual you might want to get super familiar with before you get in "media debates"

Okay. I know all about that guy. I know how much of an idiot he was. And I know that you really need to take things in a case by case basis and that every child is different. But even as a child I thought it wasn’t a good idea for people to play certain games when they weren’t above the age rating on the box. It’s there for a reason.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I didn’t think it’d be possible to see a miracle happen twice in one day...
View attachment 284185

I think we just have to end Smashboards now.

That's it. We can't get any better than this.

 

[Shroob]

Then you explain this **** that’s going on! You explain why people think it’s okay to murder another human being under any circumstances. You explain why people think discrimination is okay and that people in minority groups deserve the ****ty treatment they get from society. You explain why literal Nazis have a controlling voice in our government. You explain why people think it’s okay to let people starve and die on the streets just so they don’t have to pay more taxes. Because the only explanation I can think of is that something ****ed up these people during their developmental phase.

Do you think this is new?


Because hun, this has been happening before you were born. Men and women died in wars over this **** in the past, thinking this is the fault of fictional comic book or video game characters is a disrespect to the people who put their lives down to fight against crap like this.

 

[Aurane]

hun

Here we go again.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Do you think this is new?


Because hun, this has been happening before you were born. Men and women died in wars over this **** in the past, thinking this is the fault of fictional comic book or video game characters is a disrespect to the people who put their lives down to fight against crap like this.

Well then how are we supposed to make it better?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Okay, what the heck?

Bowser is at least a good dad. Of all the "evil" dads in fiction he's definitely like, top of the list for me.

As far as morality debates go, currently our most evil character in my opinion is Ridley. If Porky was here he'd probably be up there with Ridley cause good lord are they just ungodly evil. They're not even forced to he the incarnation of evil like Ganon, nor do they have an iota of good in them. They just want death, destruction, and to demoralize anyone who may be so lucky to be spared from their wrath of pain.

Bowser actually had morals. Many games have showed that even he thinks certain evils are unspeakable and beyond him, and it rings true. Of all the evil characters, I'd say he's at the bottom of the list. Even K. Rool is higher just because he went insane with spite at the thought of some monkeys beating him and is perfectly willing to kill, where Bowser has never done so nor has he tortured anyone. His punishments are just being left in isolation in his dungeon and maybe a beating at best. His tyrannical monarchy is bad, but in his wars and conquests, no one has died to my knowledge. He is a forgiving and benevolent King to his subjects and a good father to his son for the most part.

But I won't be bias. Bowser has threatened to kill Mario and Luigi and in the Galaxy games, his plan was to destroy and recreate the universe so that he and Peach could rule over a new one together. That is pretty damn despicable. But it's generally outweighed by his softer sides and in contrast to everything else we've seen seems a little uncharacteristic if I'm honest. I can't recall any other instance Bowser wanted to literally kill anyone (other than Mario, of course). Though according to guides, he was also brainwashing/going to mind control the inhabitants of Peach's Castle and the residents of the Painting Worlds to serve under his army, and that's also pretty bad. And even within the context of his plans in Galaxy, he probably didn't really think too much on his plan and figured recreating the universe would mean reviving the exact same residents residing within it before. Cause what good is ruling a universe with nothing to rule over?

But like I said before, these are bad, sure, but he has a softer side to him. The other evil ones haven't shown these glimpses of any sort of good or signs of redemption at all. They are cold-hearted, is what I'd describe them as, which makes them a tier above Bowser for me, and his little gray area makes him really interesting to me along with all that charisma.

I know this was more so a "fans of these characters makes them just as wiling to do those things" or whatever the hell that point was, but I just really wanted to weigh in on this particular aspect of it and explain why Bowser is probably the least evil of the inarguably evil characters.

 

[Shroob]

Well then how are we supposed to make it better?

Learning from our mistakes.


But that's not easy, because as the saying goes


"History is doomed to repeat itself".

 

[PLATINUM7]

Do you think this is new?


Because hun, this has been happening before you were born. Men and women died in wars over this **** in the past, thinking this is the fault of fictional comic book or video game characters is a disrespect to the people who put their lives down to fight against crap like this.

What if stories weren't inspired by actions but actions inspired stories?

Well then how are we supposed to make it better?

Don't be a ****.

 

[Zinith]

Okay. I know all about that guy. I know how much of an idiot he was. And I know that you really need to take things in a case by case basis and that every child is different. But even as a child I thought it wasn’t a good idea for people to play certain games when they weren’t above the age rating on the box. It’s there for a reason.

You just implied a few posts back that media creates violent extremists. And if you ruled out Shroob not being effected due to his age, where does that leave you with? This is exactly what Jack Thompson was trying--and failing--to prove