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Best? I mean, I haven't watched the others so I guess I can't comment. But the presentation certainly didn't have much in the way of anything exciting.
I mean, the whole point of a indie direct is to highlight the games people didn't or don't care about. It isn't a place to dump big game announcements, it's to focus on the smaller things and give smaller devs a spotlight they otherwise couldn't get.
 

StrangeKitten

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That doesn't really fix the problem. Because it still exists. They still got something they didn't want instead of something they actually wanted. They're going to be upset. It's completely understandable to be upset with how much Nintendo has been bungling their public relations this year.
Should people be frustrated at a lack of first party news? In a general sense, absolutely. But I don't think those frustrations should be taken out on an indie Direct. It's not like Nintendo said it was going to be a general and then only showed indie games. They said indie Direct and delivered just that
 

Dutch Raikuna

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Except the problem is that they didn't want to go to Subway in the first place, they wanted to go to McDonalds. They've been asking to go to McDonalds for months now but their mom keeps taking them to other places. That's just frustrating. Again. I'm not disappointment with the direct. I'm ambivalent. But people being mad about this is completely understandable and insulting them is just going to make things worse.
That doesn't really fix the problem. Because it still exists. They still got something they didn't want instead of something they actually wanted. They're going to be upset. It's completely understandable to be upset with how much Nintendo has been bungling their public relations this year.
Then great. Get them to vary the palate for a bit.

Look right, I want to hear stuff from Nintendo. The Super Mario Collection, whatever Monolith Soft is working on next, Smash DLC, any new collaborations etc. but still these aren't exactly normal times with what's going on in the world so I'm willing to wait.

Probably not the only one in the crowd with that view.

I know, I’m glad I’m getting back into writing again, I wish I could show some of my college classmates my new story excerpts.
Writing's tough. It's related to my job and also one of my past times. It can be real hard.
And it's thanks to you Wade and our discussions that I'm currently working through my stuff on it. Showing it to you guys has been a real morale boost for me. Hatster hope you can also join into our talks eventually.
 
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SnakeFighter64

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I mean, the whole point of a indie direct is to highlight the games people didn't or don't care about. It isn't a place to dump big game announcements, it's to focus on the smaller things and give smaller devs a spotlight they otherwise couldn't get.
OK. I've been told this so much that it's beginning to be annoying. Especially since it just sounds like to me "I agree! The direct sucked! But you see! That's because.... IT WAS SUPPOSED TO! Ha! Your criticism is invalid!" Like, I'm not upset about it but it feels like you guys are trying to make me upset. Why can't people just be allowed to be disappointed? Why can't they express that opinion without being openly insulted by ****ing Walmart? Why is the only reaction allowed being happy with it?
 

TheMightyP

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Speaking of indies, one thing that I hate is that when indie games make a spiritual successor, and disgruntled fans hail it as the "base series killer", and then amount a lot of pressure on the game that it doesn't live up to, and then the game dies because of unrealistic expectations.

Like TemTem for example.

I was worried Bug Fables was gonna go down the same route because of that Origami King interview, but thankfully, PM fans can make room for both.
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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Imagine finnaly showing off your quaint little indie game you spent time, money, and passion into only for it to be shown in the same presentation as... Idk... A Shovel Knight/Shantae Smash Reveal

The whole purpose of these indie showcases are to give these smaller indie games some spotlight that they probably otherwise wouldn't. These aren't supposed to be grandiose or anything.
 
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OK. I've been told this so much that it's beginning to be annoying. Especially since it just sounds like to me "I agree! The direct sucked! But you see! That's because.... IT WAS SUPPOSED TO! Ha! Your criticism is invalid!" Like, I'm not upset about it but it feels like you guys are trying to make me upset. Why can't people just be allowed to be disappointed? Why can't they express that opinion without being openly insulted by ****ing Walmart? Why is the only reaction allowed being happy with it?
It's not necessarily that the only option is to be happy(or whatever you're going on about), but it's moreso how you reacted. Saying "they were mostly fine, nothing really interested me though" or something along those lines is fine. Saying something along the lines of "where are all the GOOD announcments? I want Shovel Knight GIVE ME GAMES I ACTUALLY KNOW NINTENDO" comes off as entitled if I have to be blunt. Especially considering that kind of attitude misses the entire point of having an entire separate type of Direct for indie games.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Speaking of indies, one thing that I hate is that when indie games make a spiritual successor, and disgruntled fans hail it as the "base series killer", and then amount a lot of pressure on the game that it doesn't live up to, and then the game dies because of unrealistic expectations.

Like TemTem for example.

I was worried Bug Fables was gonna go down the same route because of that Origami King interview, but thankfully, PM can make room for both.
Bug fables won out because Modern Paper Mario is trash. Lol
 

osby

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OK. I've been told this so much that it's beginning to be annoying. Especially since it just sounds like to me "I agree! The direct sucked! But you see! That's because.... IT WAS SUPPOSED TO! Ha! Your criticism is invalid!" Like, I'm not upset about it but it feels like you guys are trying to make me upset. Why can't people just be allowed to be disappointed? Why can't they express that opinion without being openly insulted by ****ing Walmart? Why is the only reaction allowed being happy with it?
But the direct didn't suck? That's what we've been trying to tell you.

You have every right to be disapponted but getting angry over an indie direct showing indies is ridiculous and people have every right to say this.
 

SnakeFighter64

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Then great. Get them to vary the palate for a bit.

Look right, I want to hear stuff from Nintendo. The Super Mario Collection, whatever Monolith Soft is working on next, Smash DLC, any new collaborations etc. but still these aren't exactly normal times with what's going on in the world so I'm willing to wait.

Probably not the only one in the crowd with that view.




And it's thanks to you Wade and our discussions that I'm currently working through my stuff on it. Showing it to you guys has been a real morale boost for me. Hatster hope you can also join into our talks eventually.
Maybe if they had been to McDonalds at least once in the months they've been asking to go then maybe they wouldn't be so mad that mom isn't listening to them now.
Imagine showing off your quaint little indie game only for it to be shown in the same presentation as... Idk... A Shovel Knight/Shantae Smash Reveal

The whole purpose of these indie showcases are to give these smaller indie games some spotlight that they probably otherwise wouldn't. They aren't supposed to be grandiose or anything.
A game that totally deserves that? Fighting EX Layer. It is such a good fighter and deserves more spotlight. I think a Switch port would really boost it. Hopefully it gets one at some point.

But seriously, if you have a PS4 and like fighting games, play Fighting EX Layer. It's sooooo good.
 

MooMew64

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That's totally fair. Only one or only the other is a bad thing. Which is what they are doing. This whole year it's only been small stuff. We don't even know what there holiday title is or was supposed to be.
They've had plenty of bigger releases this year. In fact, pretty much all of their releases this year have sold phenomenally: Animal Crossing is a juggernaut, Club House Games is an incredible casual game, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive was loved by Xenoblade fans, Paper Mario: The Origami King is on it's way to being the best selling Paper Mario, and that's just a few things from Nintendo themselves. Speaking of Animal Crossing, it's sold a whopping 21 million units in just little under six months.

As I've said before, it's really only a vocal minority of hardcore Nintendo fans who are upset right now. Most are pretty satisfied with Nintendo's output this year, and they've been more profitable than ever. There's a real disconnect between Nintendo's core fans and the company's status right now.
 
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Dutch Raikuna

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It's not necessarily that the only option is to be happy(or whatever you're going on about), but it's moreso how you reacted. Saying "they were mostly fine, nothing really interested me though" or something along those lines is fine. Saying something along the lines of "where are all the GOOD announcments? I want Shovel Knight GIVE ME GAMES I ACTUALLY KNOW NINTENDO" comes off as entitled if I have to be blunt. Especially considering that kind of attitude misses the entire point of having an entire separate type of Direct for indie games.
Hit it on the head dude.

SnakeFighter64 SnakeFighter64 no offence but to speak for a few people I'm not gonna try to get into another discussion like this with you two days in a row. It's actually a bit mentally exhausting.

As the kid I quoted here, there's a right mature way and a wrong childish way. You're clearly doing it in the latter way. That's the point people are making here. So take a break here and wind your neck for a bit before coming back.
 

TheMightyP

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Good luck making "Origami King is trash because it's not TTYD 2.0" accept this.
I was never really a fan of this great divide tbh. There's room for both Classic PM, and Modern PM, and Bug Fables is a good way of bringing back Classic PM, while OK is by far some of the best modern PM (in some cases, it outshone the classics) had to offer.

Pointless fighting on who the "true fans" or what the "true series" is.
 

SnakeFighter64

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But the direct didn't suck? That's what we've been trying to tell you.

You have every right to be disapponted but getting angry over an indie direct showing indies is ridiculous and people have every right to say this.
And I'm not angry. I just want people to understand why other people are and have a little empathy. Because trashing them like this is only gonna make things worse and make the community more toxic.
 

osby

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Maybe if they had been to McDonalds at least once in the months they've been asking to go then maybe they wouldn't be so mad that mom isn't listening to them now.
This analogy doesn't work in the slighest.

You don't have to watch small directs if you're not interested. Acting like Nintendo is forcing you to sit through them is frankly childish.
 
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I was never really a fan of this great divide tbh. There's room for both Classic PM, and Modern PM, and Bug Fables is a good way of bringing back Classic PM, while OK is by far some of the best modern PM (in some cases, it outshone the classics) had to offer.

Pointless fighting on who the "true fans" or what the "true series" is.
Tbh I wish I could play the original 2 just so I can see how good they are for myself.... but.... I don't own a gamecube or 64 and would likely cost me my lungs to buy. RIP Wii VC cause that was the only other option.
 
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And I'm not angry. I just want people to understand why other people are and have a little empathy. Because trashing them like this is only gonna make things worse and make the community more toxic.
No one is trashing them, people just don’t like it when others set their expectations way too high and assume we’ll get things we weren’t promised, only to get upset and blindly call a presentation bad because it didn’t have what they wanted personally.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I just watched the ending of Persona 4 play out and this song pops into my head.
I have no idea why.

Did it though? Because most people enjoyed both.
As far as I can tell most of the people that played OK were people who never played the first three and have nothing to compare it too.
 

MooMew64

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My view on Paper Mario is this:

Origami King is fun.

TTYD is fun.

They are both, at the end of the day, just video games. There is no objective right or wrong as to which is best because entertainment is subjective. Just respect each others opinions and stop the silly fandom tribalism.
 
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TheMightyP

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Tbh I wish I could play the original 2 just so I can see how good they are for myself.... but.... I don't own a gamecube or 64 and would likely cost me my lungs to buy.
64 is really easy to get if you have a Wii U.
TTYD... emulate it. Unless you want to sell your kidney.
64 had the better exploration (except Dry Dry Desert, that place is ass), but TTYD had the better everything else.
 

SnakeFighter64

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Hit it on the head dude.

SnakeFighter64 SnakeFighter64 no offence but to speak for a few people I'm not gonna try to get into another discussion like this with you two days in a row. It's actually a bit mentally exhausting.

As the kid I quoted here, there's a right mature way and a wrong childish way. You're clearly doing it in the latter way. That's the point people are making here. So take a break here and wind your neck for a bit before coming back.
How many times do I have to say I'm not angry? I don't care about the direct like at all. I just think you guys are being mean! Was it kind of disappointing to me? Well, yeah. There wasn't really anything for me in it. But I don't care because I wasn't expecting anything. People expecting Zelda or anything like that? Ridiculous, unless you're talking about Cadence of Hyrule. But people who are upset because they are sick of seeing small stuff and want a big direct to blow their socks off because the world sucks right now and they want nintendo to make it feel better? That's not unreasonable. Are they overreacting? Absolutely. But are you guys making it worse by insulting them? 100%. Just be nice.
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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How many times do I have to say I'm not angry? I don't care about the direct like at all. I just think you guys are being mean! Was it kind of disappointing to me? Well, yeah. There wasn't really anything for me in it. But I don't care because I wasn't expecting anything. People expecting Zelda or anything like that? Ridiculous, unless you're talking about Cadence of Hyrule. But people who are upset because they are sick of seeing small stuff and want a big direct to blow their socks off because the world sucks right now and they want nintendo to make it feel better? That's not unreasonable. Are they overreacting? Absolutely. But are you guys making it worse by insulting them? 100%. Just be nice.
Again, I haven’t seen anyone here being outright rude. It’s totally fine to be disappointed because you didn’t get what you want, though “it’s not what I wanted” is a pretty poor argument when it comes to saying why what you got is bad.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Tbh I wish I could play the original 2 just so I can see how good they are for myself.... but.... I don't own a gamecube or 64 and would likely cost me my lungs to buy. RIP Wii VC cause that was the only other option.
Comparing the first three games to the later games is like night and day, man.

Like it's not just the gameplay that changed, the tone of the series changes completely. The first three games could balance being a comedy but also a surprisingly serious and epic tale. The later games either have no story or treat everything like a joke.
 

osby

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As far as I can tell most of the people that played OK were people who never played the first three and have nothing to compare it too.
This doesn't make their opinions invalid. I don't have to play through every single Fire Emblem game to say that yes, Three Houses was a good game.

Playing old games doesn't make your judgement better than the others and acting like it does is a great way to turn new fans away from the classic titles. This behavior is one of the reasons why hardcore fans have a bad reputation as being entitled "no fun allowed" guys.
 
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TheCJBrine

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tbh if insiders never said anything I'd likely not care much about Nintendo's lack of Smash news/Mario news and whatever, I'm just waiting for Smash CP7 and the Mario remasters. Animal Crossing and Paper Mario were good though, and I understand COVID-19 hit Nintendo like a truck it seems.

The people who are serious about Smash in an indie direct are just silly, in the live chat most asking for Smash seem like they're joking (including me heheh), but then it appears there's genuine disappointment regarding "That's it? No Smash?" sometimes afterwards (though I'm aware that statement itself is usually a joke).

Anyway, when All Hallows' Eve Eve comes, buy and play Pikmin 3 Deluxe. pls buy it. don't let it die, Nintendo...
 
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TheMightyP

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As far as I can tell most of the people that played OK were people who never played the first three and have nothing to compare it too.
I think you're massively overstating the people who didn't play the first 3 and bought Origami King. And what about those who did and still liked TOK? Saying something like that is a copout, it's like saying most of those who didn't like TOK are just TTYD fanboys, regardless if they even like TTYD or not.
 

Wademan94

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And it's thanks to you Wade and our discussions that I'm currently working through my stuff on it. Showing it to you guys has been a real morale boost for me. Hatster hope you can also join into our talks eventually.
I’ll second that, you’re more than welcome to join my server Hat N' Clogs Hat N' Clogs if you wish.
 

Hadokeyblade

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This doesn't make their opinions invalid. I don't have to play through every single Fire Emblem game to say that yes, Three Houses was a good game.

Playing old games doesn't make your judgement better than the others and acting like it does is a great way to turn new fans away from the classic titles. This behavior is one of the reasons why hardcore fans have a bad reputation as being entitled "no fun allowed" guys.
I never said it did make their opinions invalid.

I've seen a lot of people who just hate the older games despite never playing them because it's a valid criticism to say the modern games are trash and they take offense to that
 
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Wademan94

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I’ve been following others play though TOK, and while I will say it is the best out of the modern games, it still doesn’t resonate with me that much and I’m not interested in getting it myself, I’m more than content watching others play it. Good for those who do enjoy it though, I wish I could find as much enjoyment in it as you guys do. I’m still gonna work on my ideas for Star-Drawn Journeys as something to beef up my portfolio though.
 

SnakeFighter64

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They've had plenty of bigger releases this year. In fact, pretty much all of their releases this year have sold phenomenally: Animal Crossing is a juggernaut, Club House Games is an incredible casual game, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive was loved by Xenoblade fans, Paper Mario: The Origami King is on it's way to being the best selling Paper Mario, and that's just a few things from Nintendo themselves. Speaking of Animal Crossing, it's sold a whopping 21 million units in just little under six months.

As I've said before, it's really only a vocal minority of hardcore Nintendo fans who are upset right now. Most are pretty satisfied with Nintendo's output this year, and they've been more profitable than ever. There's a real disconnect between Nintendo's core fans and the company's status right now.
That's incredibly dismissive.
Again, I haven’t seen anyone here being outright rude. It’s totally fine to be disappointed because you didn’t get what you want, though “it’s not what I wanted” is a pretty poor argument when it comes to saying why what you got is bad.
Objective quality is an artificial construct. All it means is that a majority of people like it. As an example, I've loved Ben 10 all my life. And all my life I was told it was a bad show. But then, low and behold, Kuro the Artist blows up and people come out of the woodwork and people start praising the show. It's a meaningless phrase.

And either way, I don't care. I just want people to stop being mean because I've been on that end a lot in my life. I know what it's like to be continually disappointed. So I can't be mad at people for expressing that disappointment.
 
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