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[Shroob]

He's hard-owned by Disney, so your example is just plain awful. I don't really care about what random person tries to make a bad argument that he's a SE character. They don't get to license him out at any point. The most involvement SE has deals with moveset, and as the creators of the game, who else would Sakurai turn to anyway? That's just common sense. If Sakurai needs help, he always goes to the company who actually develops the games. It's always been the case, and always will. Doesn't make him a SE character in that way.

No matter what, Disney will be involved. And since he's a game character in reality, it makes it hard to take an example of a company who has plausible game characters.

Either way, the core point is that speculation isn't an issue whatsoever. Things like requests were crazy for a long time now. People request characters who effectively have no chance, so to be honest, I don't see how it matters one bit if they originated from a game or non-game to begin with. The chances never "changed" in that regard.


So something that wasn't even a specific thing from the start? The only thing it was was "just Nintendo all-stars", which got changed as soon as Melee by having those who are definitely not all-stars, and then 3rd parties in Brawl. This didn't even become a legitimate thing till Ultimate, the first time he spoke on what his ideal game design was. Never mind things do change and always did, so this isn't a remotely sound argument. It's a major fallacy of "precedence rules and can never change." You don't need to like it, but you're not presenting a sound argument for why here.


Which isn't a good reason to avoid it either way. Nor why it would be a bad thing. It's unconvincing at this point.

You're not going to change my opinion on this as a heads up.


I'm down for pretty much any video game character joining the game, but I am staunchly against 4th party additions of any kind. This is a series about video games and has always been strictly about video games. If I wanted to play a Xenomorph, I'd launch up Mortal Kombat, or if I wanted to play with Goku, DBFZ.

 

[Z25]

Square Enix and Disney literally both said it’s squares call on Sora.

if that’s the truth then Square clearly owns the controlling rights and he’s a square rep first and foremost if he gets in but that’s just my opinion

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're not going to change my opinion on this as a heads up.


I'm down for pretty much any video game character joining the game, but I am staunchly against 4th party additions of any kind. This is a series about video games and has always been strictly about video games. If I wanted to play a Xenomorph, I'd launch up Mortal Kombat, or if I wanted to play with Goku, DBFZ.

4th parties don't exist either way. They're all 1st or 3rd parties.

It's not been "strictly about video games". That wasn't a thing till, get this, Ultimate where his specific thing is "a game about gaming characters". Honestly, the series had its own specific thing in each game. 4 is the first game with no real theme alone.

• Super Smash Bros.: Nintendo All-Stars
• Melee: More Nintendo characters, didn't matter if they're All-Stars. Just a few notable ones and some fun extras that had cool gameplay.
• Brawl: 3rd Parties and further filling out the core roster.
• 3DS/Wii U: No real theme to begin with. At best some fun neat characters to fill out the roster, while still having hard cuts. Maybe at best showing off how the roster's own Character Select Screen doesn't matter what franchise they're from alone. Whatever works. Each game does have a slight focus, RPG mode for 3DS, and Massive Multiplayer for Wii U, but the closest thing to a theme could at best be "Game System options" now.
• Ultimate: The first game to be about Gaming Characters specifically. This is the first time he actually calls it this.

So no, what you're saying is a vastly misleading thing. Ultimate not getting non-gaming characters makes sense, because it's the first time in the series that focuses on the direction of strictly "gaming characters". Not before that. What you're talking about is a pattern, but nothing to back it up.

Again, you don't need to like that idea, but pushing a narrative that doesn't exist for the whole series is silly. There wasn't even going to be a theme back in the original design, as they just added "Known characters" to help it sell. If you want an overarching theme, it's "tons of cool characters to play as" is its core point from day one. And it's the only one that actually strictly fits every game as a specific theme.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

No, I just feel like "Once a series about video games, always a series about video games."


If I want fighting games with Wacky Pitacky real world/other media crossovers, I don't lack choices in that. If I really wanna get my Walking Dead fix, I can play Tekken; conversely, I never want to have to say that about Smash.

But licensed games are a big part of video games and gaming history. How about this modification. They have to be a character from a series where a game was made based off of the IP with the purpose of making a game, and not promoting a film or TV show. So things like FighterZ, Goldeneye, Epic Mickey, and Batman: Arkham count. But things like Shrek on the Xbox don’t.

 

[Shroob]

4th parties don't exist either way. They're all 1st or 3rd parties.

It's not been "strictly about video games". That wasn't a thing till, get this, Ultimate where his specific thing is "a game about gaming characters". Honestly, the series had its own specific thing in each game. 4 is the first game with no real theme alone.

• Super Smash Bros.: Nintendo All-Stars
• Melee: More Nintendo characters, didn't matter if they're All-Stars. Just a few notable ones and some fun extras that had cool gameplay.
• Brawl: 3rd Parties and further filling out the core roster.
• 3DS/Wii U: No real theme to begin with. At best some fun neat characters to fill out the roster, while still having hard cuts. Maybe at best showing off how the roster's own Character Select Screen doesn't matter what franchise they're from alone. Whatever works. Each game does have a slight focus, RPG mode for 3DS, and Massive Multiplayer for Wii U, but the closest thing to a theme could at best be "Game System options" now.
• Ultimate: The first game to be about Gaming Characters specifically. This is the first time he actually calls it this.

So no, what you're saying is a vastly misleading thing. Ultimate getting non-gaming characters makes sense, because it's the first time in the series that focuses on the direction of strictly "gaming characters". Not before that. What you're talking about is a pattern, but nothing to back it up.

Again, you don't need to like that idea, but pushing a narrative that doesn't exist for the whole series is silly. There wasn't even going to be a theme back in the original design, as they just added "Known characters" to help it sell. If you want an overarching theme, it's "tons of cool characters to play as" is its core point from day one. And it's the only one that actually strictly fits every game as a specific theme.

It doesn't make any sense at all when Sakurai has gone on record to say characters who didn't debut in video games would never get in, then laugh about people's choices like Goku and Spongebob.


How is this even an argument when it's a philosophy that Sakurai has gone on record multiple times to state, some as late as only a year or so ago?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Square Enix and Disney literally both said it’s squares call on Sora.

if that’s the truth then Square clearly owns the controlling rights and he’s a square rep first and foremost if he gets in but that’s just my opinion

Nah. That’s just Disney being courteous. There have been Kingdom Hearts games with no involvement from Square at all, and the copyright is specifically attributed to Disney.

 

[Wademan94]

I think we still have a good number of video game characters to go before even worrying about dipping into other media.

 

[Shroob]

But licensed games are a big part of video games and gaming history. How about this modification. They have to be a character from a series where a game was made based off of the IP with the purpose of making a game, and not promoting a film or TV show. So things like FighterZ, Goldeneye, Epic Mickey, and Batman: Arkham count. But things like Shrek on the Xbox don’t.

I feel like the only 4th party character really in the running could be Geralt, and that's a big IF.


The Witcher is based on a book series, but the games are, at least from what I heard, vastly different from the book. It's a massive gray area.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I feel like sora CAN happen in Smash. He'd just end up being the least represented series that isn't final fantasy.


Although considering he's a Final fantasy character himself he would be adding to Clouds content in a way.

 

[Wademan94]

I feel like sora CAN happen in Smash. He'd just end up being the least represented series that isn't final fantasy.


Although considering he's a Final fantasy character himself he would be adding to Clouds content in a way.

He’d likely need to come with little to no Disney references.

 

[Shroob]

I think we still have a good number of video game characters to go before even worrying about dipping into other media.

That's another thing.

We're arguing about Ultimate getting 4th party characters when there's still thousands of games out there with 0 representation. We look at Ultimate's almost 90 characters and think it's a lot, but it's really not, especially since a lot of 3rd parties in Ultimate have multiple iconic series with currently 0 representation, alongside companies yet to be represented.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

He’d likely need to come with little to no Disney references.

It's happened before so it wouldnt be that odd. He's in the final fantasy gatcha game with Riku and Axel and any Disney references is just kept vague.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Look, I got Cloud with **** all. I'll settle for Sora with **** all.

 

[Shroob]

Look, I got Cloud with **** all. I'll settle for Sora with **** all.

You got less than **** all with Cloud.


They removed the Chocobo hat and probably will make us pay for it a 2nd time.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Do "fanrules" still matter to the Smash community? Since Melee, they have been pretty held on... till Sakurai chipped that mindset.

"Only Nintendo-made characters can be in Smash!" Snake broke that rule, opening the floodgates.

"Only Characters that had Games on Nintendo Systems can be in Smash!" Cloud broke that rule! Opening the floodgates ever further!

"Only Video Game Characters can be in Smash!" ...for now?

What do you think would make Sakurai give in and "break this rule?"

 

[PLATINUM7]

You got less than **** all with Cloud.


They removed the Chocobo hat and probably will make us pay for it a 2nd time.

Bundle it with the Chocobo theme and I'll happily begrudgingly pay.

Do "fanrules" still matter to the Smash community? Since Melee, they have been pretty held on... till Sakurai chipped that mindset.

"Only Nintendo-made characters can be in Smash!" Snake broke that rule, opening the floodgates.

"Only Characters that had Games on Nintendo Systems can be in Smash!" Cloud broke that rule! Opening the floodgates ever further!

"Only Video Game Characters can be in Smash!" ...for now?

What do you think would make Sakurai give in and "break this rule?"

Only video-game characters isn't a fanrule. That comes straight from Sakurai's mouth.

Also Cloud had games on Nintendo consoles.

 

[Shroob]

Bundle it with the Chocobo theme and I'll happily begrudgingly pay.

I was honestly thinking the exact same thing.

Final Fantasy

Now with THREE songs

For an additional .79 .99 cents!

 

[PeridotGX]

Do "fanrules" still matter to the Smash community? Since Melee, they have been pretty held on... till Sakurai chipped that mindset.

"Only Nintendo-made characters can be in Smash!" Snake broke that rule, opening the floodgates.

"Only Characters that had Games on Nintendo Systems can be in Smash!" Cloud broke that rule! Opening the floodgates ever further!

"Only Video Game Characters can be in Smash!" ...for now?

What do you think would make Sakurai give in and "break this rule?"

Sakurai: I watched Avatar: The Last Airbender on Netflix. It was dope, so I decided to add Aang. That's it, it's a good show, and I decided to pay it tribute.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sakurai: I watched Avatar: The Last Airbender on Netflix. It was dope, so I decided to add Aang. That's it, it's a good show, and I decided to pay it tribute.

I'm down for that.

 

[Z25]

Damn the Rick and Morty got very unexpected really fast

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It doesn't make any sense at all when Sakurai has gone on record to say characters who didn't debut in video games would never get in, then laugh about people's choices like Goku and Spongebob.


How is this even an argument when it's a philosophy that Sakurai has gone on record multiple times to state, some as late as only a year or so ago?

Which doesn't really change that Smash 64 and Melee did not have a "gaming character" theme either. Not only has Sakurai never once said it, he never spoke on "non-game characters are impossible because they're from a non-game" till about Smash 4(and he didn't say those words either). So it's pretty hard for it to be a theme during Melee and 64. I think he might've said something about it as soon as Brawl, but I can't remember. The first game he actually called it as a theme was Ultimate, a game about gaming characters.

The problem here is you're trying to push it as a theme for the whole series, when that's not a statement he's made.

"The game is about gaming characters" is a theme in Ultimate specifically.
Sakurai thinking non-game characters weren't plausible did not even exist yet, till at earliest Brawl(when 3rd parties actually got in), and he never really directly talked about it till 4. As 4 didn't really have this as a game theme? Well, calling it a series about gaming characters only is still vastly misleading.

Him "laughing" is just his normal thing. Any questions that are awkward make him laugh. He's just a guy who laughs. He vastly avoids trying to make fun of people's ideas. Even his article about clones in Smash 4 was misinterpreted heavily that he was angry at people for simply not being fans of it. People take these things way too much the wrong way when he doesn't try to ever put people down.

His first actual character he spoke of that isn't from a game first is James Bond. He was only dismissed for the fact of licensing(licensing is also really the only thing he's said that made non-game characters impossible anyway), guns(which as we know no longer matters), and resembling a real life person(this actually makes more sense due to the series having fictional characters to begin with, but he refers more to an actor being used, not cause "real life" alone).

So no, I don't see this theme either.

I also don't think he intentionally will add a non-gaming character anytime soon. At least not during Ultimate, the only game with "gaming characters" as a theme. But then we remember he isn't choosing the Fighter's pass anyway, so that's up to Nintendo. The only thing we know is Nintendo seems to prefer the same thing, if Reggie's statement still matters, since he noted that Sakurai and Nintendo were trying to make it the best game about game characters. That's an actual reason why it wouldn't happen, cause Nintendo, the ones in charge, are on that notion. Which doesn't apply to any games after Ultimate either cause who knows what'll change. Literally every game has had massive changes in what's acceptable in the roster anyway. How big of a leap could they make? Who knows.

 

[Shroob]

Which doesn't really change that Smash 64 and Melee did not have a "gaming character" theme either. Not only has Sakurai never once said it, he never spoke on "non-game characters are impossible because they're from a non-game" as soon as Smash 4. So it's pretty hard for it to be a theme during Melee and 64. I think he might've said something about it as soon as Brawl, but I can't remember. The first game he actually called it as a theme was Ultimate, a game about gaming characters.

The problem here is you're trying to push it as a theme for the whole series, when that's not a statement he's made.

"The game is about gaming characters" is a theme in Ultimate specifically.
Sakurai thinking non-game characters weren't plausible did not even exist yet, till at earliest Brawl(when 3rd parties actually got in), and he never really directly talked about it till 4. As 4 didn't really have this as a game theme? Well, calling it a series about gaming characters only is still vastly misleading.

Him "laughing" is just his normal thing. Any questions that are awkward make him laugh. He's just a guy who laughs. He vastly avoids trying to make fun of people's ideas. Even his article about clones in Smash 4 was misinterpreted heavily that he was angry at people for simply not being fans of it. People take these things way too much the wrong way when he doesn't try to ever put people down.

His first actual character he spoke of that isn't from a game first is James Bond. He was only dismissed for the fact of licensing(licensing is also really the only thing he's said that made non-game characters impossible anyway), guns(which as we know no longer matters), and resembling a real life person(this actually makes more sense due to the series having fictional characters to begin with, but he refers more to an actor being used, not cause "real life" alone).

So no, I don't see this theme either.

I also don't think he intentionally will add a non-gaming character anytime soon. At least not during Ultimate, the only game with "gaming characters" as a theme. But then we remember he isn't choosing the Fighter's pass anyway, so that's up to Nintendo. The only thing we know is Nintendo seems to prefer the same thing, if Reggie's statement still matters, since he noted that Sakurai and Nintendo were trying to make it the best game about game characters. That's an actual reason why it wouldn't happen, cause Nintendo, the ones in charge, are on that notion. Which doesn't apply to any games after Ultimate either cause who knows what'll change. Literally every game has had massive changes in what's acceptable in the roster anyway. How big of a leap could they make? Who knows.

I think you read into this one autistic boy's(me) words a bit too deep, partner.

You way overanalyzed what I said when it can be boiled down into one sentence:


"That's your opinion".

 

[Wademan94]

Sakurai: I watched Avatar: The Last Airbender on Netflix. It was dope, so I decided to add Aang. That's it, it's a good show, and I decided to pay it tribute.

Aang in a Smash style game would be amazing, I can see him swapping between elements for down special and adding the effects into his moveset along with different specials.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Sakurai: I watched Avatar: The Last Airbender on Netflix. It was dope, so I decided to add Aang. That's it, it's a good show, and I decided to pay it tribute.

Aang has actually been my secret "impossible" pick for a looong time.

Aang in a Smash style game would be amazing, I can see him swapping between elements for down special and adding the effects into his moveset along with different specials.

Avatar has enough unique characters to have its own fighting game.

I always imagined Aang primarily fighting with his staff and airbending, using other elements for specific moves. I like to keep things simple.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Welp, I put in my Mario Kart Wii disc for the first time in years and this thing I see is that the save data I had in my childhood is completely gone.

...Guess I gotta go unlock every again.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Bundle it with the Chocobo theme and I'll happily begrudgingly pay.

Only video-game characters isn't a fanrule. That comes straight from Sakurai's mouth.

Also Cloud had games on Nintendo consoles.

That don't star him nor were they about his stories.

 

[PLATINUM7]

That don't star him nor were they about his stories.

They did star him though.
Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy and Curtain Call and Final Fantasy Explorers all had Cloud in some compacity. They might not have been titles in the Compilation of FFVII but they were still games on Nintendo consoles that featured Cloud Strife.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'll never have a reason to watch One Piece...but I'll always listen to their rap

 

[Shroob]

That don't star him nor were they about his stories.

There's a giant difference between "NUuuuuuuuuuuuu characters have to be on Nintendo platforms because I SAID SO!"

and

Sakurai literally poking fun at people asking for characters like Spongebob and Goku


The whole "No non-gaming characters" isn't a fan rule, it's straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I actually forgot King boo was even in Mario kart Wii lol

 

[PLATINUM7]

I actually forgot King boo was even in Mario kart Wii lol

King Boo was one of my favourites in Mario Kart Wii.

 

[Shroob]

Mario Kart Wii is a game I have terrible memories of lol.


I thought I loved it, but.... once people found out Funky was the best character, it was hard to play online, especially with my early Wii ****ty internet.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That don't star him nor were they about his stories.

Which isn't the point. The point Sakurai made, which was mistranslated as "must have a game appearance on Nintendo" and later was corrected as "It'd be a courtesy to have a Nintendo appearance" is that he treats it as something of note when determining who to choose. That's all it ultimately means.

That don't star him nor were they about his stories.

...Though this is correct. He's not a massively important character nor is any of those games about him. But that's not a requirement anyway.

It's still a fanrule they need to be on the system. Sakurai's personal rule first starting from Smash 4(or Brawl if I forgot) is they need to be from a game franchise first. Nintendo apparently agrees.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Mario Kart Wii is probably the most frustrating racer I've ever played.

Going from first to last by a blue shell, red shell, green shell, red shell, red shell, star, bumped off the edge, green shell, star, bumped of the edge again combo was not fun.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Mario Kart Wii is a serious case of nostalgia for me.

I have memories of it good and bad, wonderful and infuriating. It was the game that really made me love playing as King Boo, so that's a plus.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Its weird to me how Daisy is such a late game unlockable in Mario kart wii. You'd think she would be there from the start.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Alright shoot here's my Avatar fighting game fan roster 'cause I'm bored and need to get my mind off things. I'm also including general play style archetypes because I'm a nerd.

I know a couple of you are into this fan roster stuff.

Spoiler

Aang (Balanced) Agile and uses mostly air bending but has a lot of tricks up his sleeve)
Sokka (Balanced) Zones with his boomerang but otherwise fights with his space sword)
Katara (Zoner) Fights largely at mid range with her water whip.
Toph (Grappler) Throws slow but powerful boulders as projectiles, but aside from that mostly fights up close. Has a command grab where she encases her body in stone before grabbing and throwing her opponent.
Zuko (Rushdown) Wields two swords alongside his fire bending high damage output. Has a Blue Spirit alt.
Iroh (Grappler) Has a special where he breaths fire, but aside from that doesn't use any bending.
Azula (Balanced) Using lighting and fire balls to fight at a long range while also having good mobility and combos.
Tai Lee (Rushdown) Great mobility and combos, but low damage and range.
Mai (Zoner) Throws knives for fast projectiles that can lead into combos, but has low damage output otherwise.
Suki (Balanced) Fights up close with her two fans, sword and even some hand-to-hand grappling.
Jet (Grappler) Has very good mobility for a grappler. Has a command grab using his two hooks to grab and throw his opponent.
Ozai (Boss/"Akuma") Excels at all style of play, but when unlocked as a playable character has low HP for balance reasons.

Dream Momo (Joke character) Fights with a katana and has dream Appa appear for certain attacks.

Hey and it's got a near perfect male/female split to. Didn't even think of that when I made it. Nice.

Anyway hypothetical Zuko main gang rise up.

 

[Shroob]

Its weird to me how Daisy is such a late game unlockable in Mario kart wii. You'd think she would be there from the start.

Waluigi says, "Waa, at least she was there at all. They left me out of 7!"

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Waluigi says, "Waa, at least she was there at all. They left me out of 7!"

7 was a dumb game because of its really bizzare roster choices lol

8 too had really bizzare roster choices, they went with the Koopalings, pink gold Peach and cool crossover characters when they could have added characters like Egadd or any of the Mario RPG characters like Bow and Peasley.

Why has Egadd never been added to any of these games? lol

 

[PLATINUM7]

Koopalings were a good choice for Mario Kart and I will continue to stand by that.

I don't want to go back to a roster without .