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[TMNTSSB4]

I recall people being mad when she was announced, though that was mostly because they figured that there was no way that she made it in through the ballot, and that [insert person's favourite character here] was clearly the real winner.

Didn’t they save some of the ballot winners for Ultimate? Ridley and K Rool aside of course

 

[DerpingPikachu]

You’re a buncha weasels.

Not the cutes ones either, the little snidely ones.

bruh
no u

 

[N3ON]

We've been over this, SnakeFighter64 , but I guess you're still speaking about time periods for which you weren't present.

Fwiw, I know this was several pages ago, but it's nonsense.

The "Big Four" is just another version of some grouping of whoever is most demanded around a certain time. Sometimes it's "Big Four", sometimes it's "Elite Four + Champion" sometimes it's "Holy Trinity"; the naming and membership of this club are highly fluid.

For example, Geno and Banjo wouldn't have been included in Smash 4's version of this. I remember, it was Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, Palutena, and Mewtwo. Those were the E4, Mewtwo was the Champion. Even after Mega Man was confirmed, I recall him being swapped out for Little Mac. After 4 released, it was switched to Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac and Snake.

And at different times during the Brawl cycle you probably would've seen Wario, Sonic, Diddy, Dedede, Mega Man, Geno, Ridley, maybe Krystal, etc. all rotate through.

Ridley and K. Rool probably have been staples the longest, but there's no consistency or consensus with this grouping. Even now the new trinity is apparently Geno, Isaac, and Waluigi. It's all made in the moment, and really only reflects characters that at one point, had a high level of Smash popularity.

--------------

I don't think anyone was mad at Cloud besides die hard Nintendo fanboys.

Bayonetta was MUCH more controversial.

Cloud was pretty controversial when it happened because it altered the perception people held about Smash. It wasn't just Nintendo fanboys who considered it a Nintendo fest, with Nintendo-related guests. That's how a lot of people saw it. To the extent people, earlier, justified Ryu by invoking the performance of the SNES port of SFII, and writing Snake off as an exception that didn't widely apply.

It's just that people got over it fairly quickly. I think the promise of that "Smash Broadcast" helped them move past it, and we all know how that ended. :/

 

[Capybara Gaming]

View attachment 259918

This is a blursed image

I couldn't NOT post this.

 

[Megadoomer]

Didn’t they save some of the ballot winners for Ultimate? Ridley and K Rool aside of course

Yeah, though at the time, there was no way of knowing that they'd even get into the next game, since it seemed like the support for characters like Geno and K. Rool only managed to get them Mii costumes (and not even a good one, in K. Rool's case), and Ridley's support got him promoted(?) from a story mode boss to a stage hazard. (Sakurai explicitly saying that Ridley was too big for him to work in Smash, giving the detractors more fuel, likely didn't help)

I believe it was said on the Japanese ballot that the information gathered would be used for future games, but there wasn't any notice like that on the ballots outside of Japan, which likely didn't help.

 

[Aurane]

AAH I JUST WATCHED MARK PET LIXIAN

 

[Shroob]

I can imagine some people were mad at Cloud because he was third-party and some people are offended by third-parties, for some reason.

I don't recall any controversy over Bayonetta at the time of her announcement. Almost everyone I saw was excited. The controversy for her inclusion seemed to be anachronistic after she began to top the metagame and people who initially liked or were otherwise indifferent to her began to hate her because she was OP.

That was when people began to develop conspiracy theories about whether or not she really won the ballot and if Sakurai was lying or not. But people weren't doing that when she was announced/released, as far as I saw.

Really? That couldn't be further from what I saw.

"Wtf how'd she win?"

"This got in over Geno/K.Rool?"

Etc

Reddit and this site in particular were underwhelmed as hell. You had people excited sure, but even in Etika's chat during the live reveal there was an outpouring of "WHO WANTED THIS???!"

 

[Mamboo07]

You’re a buncha weasels.

Not the cutes ones either, the little snidely ones.

I'm not a weasel, I am a puffball.

 

[N3ON]

There was a lot of "this is the ballot winner? Where's x?" after Bayonetta. It was only afterwards that gameplay became a factor.

Having said that, she probably wouldn't have been that controversial (inclusion-wise), if she hadn't been a) billed as the ballot character, b) the last character revealed (who will always incur the rage of simply not being someone else) and c) grouped with Corrin.

Like, if that presentation had opened with Bayonetta and closed with, idk, K. Rool or Inkling or Shovel Knight or a character that conceivably could've been the recipient of the most votes, I don't think she would've drawn much ire at all.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

There was a lot of "this is the ballot winner? Where's x?" after Bayonetta. It was only afterwards that gameplay became a factor.

Having said that, she probably wouldn't have been that controversial (inclusion-wise), if she hadn't been a) billed as the ballot character, b) the last character revealed (who will always incur the rage of simply not being someone else) and c) grouped with Corrin.

Like, if that presentation had opened with Bayonetta and closed with, idk, K. Rool or Inkling or Shovel Knight or a character that conceivably could've been the recipient of the most votes, I don't think she would've drawn much ire at all.

****. Bayonetta would have been placated if they just announced a season 2.

 

[MooMew64]

Like, how could anyone be mad at Cloud? That was easily one of the most hype character additions Smash has ever had; even if you don't like Final Fantasy, you gotta respect the history of FF as the face of JRPGs in the west, as well as what him being in a Nintendo game signified for potential Smash characters at the time.

Heck, I barely knew anything about FF7 or Final Fantasy in general at the time, but I still knew how much of an icon Cloud Strife is and went "Whoah! I can't believe that just happened!" after the reveal. Now that I have played FF7, though, heck yeah Cloud in Smash is awesome! He's a super cool character, and TBH the only negative to him being here is the unfortunate lack of literally any FF content besides Cloud and Midgar. Like, seriously, they couldn't even get a couple of Spirits?

 

[Noipoi]

Y’know, looking back at smash 4’a reveals, I was really kinda alright with anyone. Even Corrin, surprisingly.

It was only after I started speculating and hyping up potential characters did I get like this.

Ive ruined myself.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yeah, though at the time, there was no way of knowing that they'd even get into the next game, since it seemed like the support for characters like Geno and K. Rool only managed to get them Mii costumes (and not even a good one, in K. Rool's case), and Ridley's support got him promoted(?) from a story mode boss to a stage hazard. (Sakurai explicitly saying that Ridley was too big for him to work in Smash, giving the detractors more fuel, likely didn't help)

I believe it was said on the Japanese ballot that the information gathered would be used for future games, but there wasn't any notice like that on the ballots outside of Japan, which likely didn't help.

those are some good points you for right there

 

[BlueMonk]

It's byleth eve

 

[Diem]

Really? That couldn't be further from what I saw.

"Wtf how'd she win?"

"This got in over Geno/K.Rool?"

Etc

Reddit and this site in particular were underwhelmed as hell. You had people excited sure, but even in Etika's chat during the live reveal there was an outpouring of "WHO WANTED THIS???!"

I guess it depends on where you hung out. I watched a lot of Two Best Friends Play and Maximilian at the time, and they were both totally hyped, as well as most of their viewership. Because there was a big push for Bayonetta, since Bayonetta 2 was recent and a Wii U exclusive, so it was both novel and practical that she could make it into Smash.

But obviously, if you were waiting for Geno or K. Rool and got Bayonetta, there'd be disappointment, as with any time a character is announced that's no the big one you want. With so many Smash community longstanding and popular characters still not in the game, Bayonetta would be controversial in that context. Which is why I'm glad that we got Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo altogether, so now there's only like, what, Geno left of the characters that everyone's waiting for? The only real thing that could possibly cause major controversy would be another Fire Emblem character... which happened.

My two big wants were two that I deemed way too unpopular and unlikely, so I got used to just seeing all the cool and mindblowing characters that made other people lose their minds, like Cloud and K. Rool, and just being happy for them. Then I got Dark Samus anyways, and Chibi-Robo as a Mii costume, so that worked out.

 

[Noipoi]

Guys, I think a new Urshifu form leaked...

Spoiler

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

7.0/Byleth is almost upon us. Less than 24 hours or so.

y'all excited?

I know I am. Most anticipated character of the pass by far for me

 

[Aurane]

Y’know, looking back at smash 4’a reveals, I was really kinda alright with anyone. Even Corrin, surprisingly.

It was only after I started speculating and hyping up potential characters did I get like this.

Ive ruined myself.

This is the realization practically everyone goes through once they put in enough time into Smash speculation.

 

[MooMew64]

Y’know, looking back at smash 4’a reveals, I was really kinda alright with anyone. Even Corrin, surprisingly.

It was only after I started speculating and hyping up potential characters did I get like this.

Ive ruined myself.

When I was a kid and looked at the Brawl Dojo every day, I didn't care about who got in, I just liked seeing new characters. It's how I discovered Pikmin: One day I woke up and saw this weird little dude with plant guys was in the game, and then I played him in Brawl, mained him for a while, and then played Pikmin 2 and realized Pikmin is super dope.

Smash 4 was when I started to obsess about reveals, and lemme tell ya, it wasn't healthy. It was a mentality that I kind of carried over into Ultimate's prerelease, and hoooo boy it still wasn't healthy. I've had a huge change of heart about how to look at it recently and am back to those Brawl Dojo days of just not caring, because it's just a silly video game, lol. Not the end of the world if someone I don't like gets in.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Like, how could anyone be mad at Cloud? That was easily one of the most hype character additions Smash has ever had; even if you don't like Final Fantasy, you gotta respect the history of FF as the face of JRPGs in the west, as well as what him being in a Nintendo game signified for potential Smash characters at the time.

Heck, I barely knew anything about FF7 or Final Fantasy in general at the time, but I still knew how much of an icon Cloud Strife is and went "Whoah! I can't believe that just happened!" after the reveal. Now that I have played FF7, though, heck yeah Cloud in Smash is awesome! He's a super cool character, and TBH the only negative to him being here is the unfortunate lack of literally any FF content besides Cloud and Midgar. Like, seriously, they couldn't even get a couple of Spirits?

Like seriously. I know Square licenses are expensiv. But they couldn’t at least use the pngs of the summons that are ALREADY IN THE GAME?

 

[Shroob]

I guess it depends on where you hung out. I watched a lot of Two Best Friends Play and Maximilian at the time, and they were both totally hyped, as well as most of their viewership. Because there was a big push for Bayonetta, since Bayonetta 2 was recent and a Wii U exclusive, so it was both novel and practical that she could make it into Smash.

But obviously, if you were waiting for Geno or K. Rool and got Bayonetta, there'd be disappointment, as with any time a character is announced that's no the big one you want. With so many Smash community longstanding and popular characters still not in the game, Bayonetta would be controversial in that context. Which is why I'm glad that we got Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo altogether, so now there's only like, what, Geno left of the characters that everyone's waiting for? The only real thing that could possibly cause major controversy would be another Fire Emblem character... which happened.

My two big wants were two that I deemed way too unpopular and unlikely, so I got used to just seeing all the cool and mindblowing characters that made other people lose their minds, like Cloud and K. Rool, and just being happy for them. Then I got Dark Samus anyways, and Chibi-Robo as a Mii costume, so that worked out.

I mean, that's great but it also doesn't mean Bayo didn't have a giant target on her back from the moment she was shown off.

Ignoring the datamine and the op gameplay for a bit, this fanbase was more upset than not at her inclusion, that's just a fact.

 

[Noipoi]

When I was a kid and looked at the Brawl Dojo every day, I didn't care about who got in, I just liked seeing new characters. It's how I discovered Pikmin: One day I woke up and saw this weird little dude with plant guys was in the game, and then I played him in Brawl, mained him for a while, and then played Pikmin 2 and realized Pikmin is super dope.

Smash 4 was when I started to obsess about reveals, and lemme tell ya, it wasn't healthy. It was a mentality that I kind of carried over into Ultimate's prerelease, and hoooo boy it still wasn't healthy. I've had a huge change of heart about how to look at it recently and am back to those Brawl Dojo days of just not caring, because it's just a silly video game, lol. Not the end of the world if someone I don't like gets in.

I mean, I don’t get super mad or anything. I just think “dammit, I wanted whoever” instead of being genuinely hype for any new character like I used to.

It’s sad really.

 

[N3ON]

****. Bayonetta would have been placated if they just announced a season 2.

Not really, not if they still planned on billing her as a ballot winner and not actually delivering a character based on the ballot. It only would've mitigated things a bit tbh, in terms of her reception. Especially since the lasting animosity revolved around her gameplay.

What they should've done is been more vague about the ballot effects on Smash 4, but more clear that it would've had effects in future games, and therefore peoples' hopes wouldn't have rested so heavily on some destined DLC character that would never truly arrive.

Plus, perhaps you, uh, forgot, but they didn't have "seasons" back then. All they'd have to do is not say the roster was done, and people would've continually expected more.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

When I was a kid and looked at the Brawl Dojo every day, I didn't care about who got in, I just liked seeing new characters. It's how I discovered Pikmin: One day I woke up and saw this weird little dude with plant guys was in the game, and then I played him in Brawl, mained him for a while, and then played Pikmin 2 and realized Pikmin is super dope.

Smash 4 was when I started to obsess about reveals, and lemme tell ya, it wasn't healthy. It was a mentality that I kind of carried over into Ultimate's prerelease, and hoooo boy it still wasn't healthy. I've had a huge change of heart about how to look at it recently and am back to those Brawl Dojo days of just not caring, because it's just a silly video game, lol. Not the end of the world if someone I don't like gets in.

I always cared. But more in a “I really want this guy” way not “**** this guy who got in instead” way. I was like that with every fighting game. When someone who wasn’t who I was rooting for got in I was just like “shoot. Maybe next time”. I only ever got upset at new smash characters when people started saying that they should do Steve instead of Banjo. And after banjo got in.... that kind of evaporated. Well, then Byleth happened. But that was the result of a whole other mental storm because 2019 was just such a ****ty year for me. And if it hadn’t Byleth would have probably just bounced off.

 

[Megadoomer]

7.0/Byleth is almost upon us

y'all excited?

I know I am. Most anticipated character of the pass by far for me

I'm pretty excited.

Cuphead in Smash, baby! This might be the only time that a Canada-made character is (sort of) playable in Smash. (unless we get Alexandra Roivas from Eternal Darkness, Juan from Guacamelee, or Commander Shepard from Mass Effect)

Looking forward to Byleth too. I didn't pay much attention to the music when playing through Three Houses, so I'll be interested to hear the songs that are picked (though I think there was one big exclusion that people are annoyed about - I think the name was God-Shattering Star) and see what their classic mode is like. I've never really gotten into Fire Emblem characters in Smash (I'm terrible with counters and Robin's resource management), but I'll give Byleth a try.

 

[MooMew64]

I mean, I don’t get super mad or anything. I just think “dammit, I wanted whoever” instead of being genuinely hype for any new character like I used to.

It’s sad really.

I used to get mad about it, unfortunately. However, after prayer, I've thankfully long since moved past those days and don't treat it so seriously anymore.

I mean, I still might get a little bummed out if it ain't someone I like, but at the end of the day? It's not a big deal. I'll just be happy for those who got their character instead.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Like, how could anyone be mad at Cloud? That was easily one of the most hype character additions Smash has ever had; even if you don't like Final Fantasy, you gotta respect the history of FF as the face of JRPGs in the west, as well as what him being in a Nintendo game signified for potential Smash characters at the time.

Heck, I barely knew anything about FF7 or Final Fantasy in general at the time, but I still knew how much of an icon Cloud Strife is and went "Whoah! I can't believe that just happened!" after the reveal. Now that I have played FF7, though, heck yeah Cloud in Smash is awesome! He's a super cool character, and TBH the only negative to him being here is the unfortunate lack of literally any FF content besides Cloud and Midgar. Like, seriously, they couldn't even get a couple of Spirits?

I had no emotion for Cloud since I had literally ZERO knowledge of anything from or related to him

7.0/Byleth is almost upon us. Less than 24 hours or so.

y'all excited?

I know I am. Most anticipated character of the pass by far for me

most hype character I predicted to happen in this pass

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Not really, not if they still planned on billing her as a ballot winner and not actually delivering a character based on the ballot. It only would've mitigated things a bit tbh, in terms of her reception. Especially since the lasting animosity revolved around her gameplay.

What they should've done is been more vague about the ballot effects on Smash 4, but more clear that it would've had effects in future games, and therefore peoples' hopes wouldn't have rested so heavily on some destined DLC character that would never truly arrive.

Plus, perhaps you, uh, forgot, but they didn't have "seasons" back then. All they'd have to do is not say the roster was done, and people would've continually expected more.

Okay. To be fair. At the time, EVERY other fighting game was doing multiple seasons. And they still are. I was not completely foolish for thinking there would be one.

 

[Aurane]

I'm gonna go to bed. Today was just kind of boring to be honest.

 

[N3ON]

Cuphead in Smash, baby! This might be the only time that a Canada-made character is (sort of) playable in Smash. (unless we get Alexandra Roivas, Juan from Guacamelee, or Commander Shepard)

What about Altaïr from the Altaïr series?

 

[Noipoi]

I used to get mad about it, unfortunately. However, after prayer, I've thankfully long since moved past those days and don't treat it so seriously anymore.

I mean, I still might get a little bummed out if it ain't someone I like, but at the end of the day? It's not a big deal. I'll just be happy for those who got their character instead.

Ayy this. If someone’s happy then that’s all that matters.

Spoiler

Besides, I got one character in the base game and one in the first dlc. I’m guaranteed to get three outta three

 

[Z25]

I’m glad that Ash kept his actual battling smarts this season and Mr Mime kicks ass:

 

[Megadoomer]

What about Altaïr from the Altaïr series?

I actually wasn't aware of that; then again, I don't follow the Assassin's Creed games too closely. (I've been meaning to play Assassin's Creed 2 or 3, but open world games tend to leave me paralyzed by the amount of choices that I have - it took me about two years to beat Breath of the Wild because the scope of the game's world made the game seem more daunting to me than it actually was)

 

[Z25]

Uh-oh I’m not sure I like where this is going:

 

[SnakeFighter64]

What about Altaïr from the Altaïr series?

But isn’t Ubisoft a French company?

 

[N3ON]

Okay. To be fair. At the time, EVERY other fighting game was doing multiple seasons. And they still are. I was not completely foolish for thinking there would be one.

Again, this is revisionist. Seasons weren't a thing for Smash 4 DLC. They didn't come as a bundle until they were all released, we weren't informed how many there would be until they all released, it wasn't a thing. Their plan was clearly a piecemeal one which lacked the foresight of Ultimate.

So calling anything past Bayonetta as "Season 2" is an arbitrary classification, because Nintendo would've just released more characters without any novel distinction as compared to the first seven. People were just expecting characters until they were told it was done.

 

[Megadoomer]

Uh-oh I’m not sure I like where this is going:

This sort of thing happens more than you'd realize. Britain named its military defense satellites Skynet, which seems ominous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(satellite) This predates the Terminator movies by fifteen years, and it's presumably a coincidence, but they kept that name until 2012.

Plus, there were at least two news stories in recent years that seemed like they were ripped from movies - archaeologists digging up a pitch-black sarcophagus (no word on whether or not the people who found it were cursed), and I recall reading a story that seemed like it was taken straight from the plot of the Thing (the John Carpenter movie) about an unknown life form being found deep within the arctic ice. (can't find the article, but I remember a LOT of tweets saying that this is how the Thing started)

EDIT: Found it; it was in the Antarctic, not the Arctic: https://twitter.com/RealWilfordB/status/1175075179191578625

 

[Zinith]

You’re a buncha weasels.

Not the cutes ones either, the little snidely ones.

Even the snideliest of weasels are the best

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Again, this is revisionist. Seasons weren't a thing for Smash 4 DLC. They didn't come as a bundle until they were all released, we weren't informed how many there would be until they all released, it wasn't a thing. Their plan was clearly a piecemeal one which lacked the foresight of Ultimate.

So calling anything past Bayonetta as "Season 2" is an arbitrary classification, because Nintendo would've just released more characters without any novel distinction as compared to the first seven. People were just expecting characters until they were told it was done.

It’s not revisionist. I don’t remember why, but at the time I remember calling Mewtwo-Bayonetta “season 1” and waiting patiently for a second to start.

 

[N3ON]

I actually wasn't aware of that; then again, I don't follow the Assassin's Creed games too closely. (I've been meaning to play Assassin's Creed 2 or 3, but open world games tend to leave me paralyzed by the amount of choices that I have - it took me about two years to beat Breath of the Wild because the scope of the game's world made the game seem more daunting to me than it actually was)

Fwiw I totally understand why it seems like Cuphead counts more.

But isn’t Ubisoft a French company?

Do you consider Banjo American or British?