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Imagine if after the Sans Mii Costume we got a Freddy Fazbear costume.

That'd have some real dark implications.
 
Scoliosis Jones

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Bolderousness said:
Tbh he did say that before he realized his soul was sold to more DLC. I'd say anything he said beforehand is off the table.
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Wunderwaft said:
Is it really that hard to believe Sakurai might change his mind on a character?
The project plan was finalized in 2015/2016. It's possible he might have changed his mind since then after he saw all the craze and demand for Waluigi after his AT reveal.
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I don't see any reason to think he'd change his mind, especially when he had the opportunity to add any of the characters he made into a Spirit or Assist Trophy:

1) At the beginning of development for the game
2) When planning DLC

Just because we're getting, potentially, a Season 2 of DLC doesn't mean he's going to go back on that. He had the option of adding Waluigi, Lyn, Shantae, and others. But he decided against doing that. I understand those characters have demand, but there are many characters that have demand. Plenty, I'd say. Sakurai could literally do 2 more Seasons of DLC that bring in entirely new series to Smash that expand the series even further, even dabbling into a few first party picks that aren't already in Smash, and not even touch the Assist Trophies or Spirits in game.

Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, Claude, Astral Chain protags, a new Pokemon...then, you've still got Leon/Jill/Chris, Heihachi or Jin, Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell, Dante, Sora, Sol Badguy, Minecraft Steve, Crash Bandicoot, Monster Hunter, Tracer, Doom Slayer, Dragonborn, Ryu Hayabusa...and likely several more.

Sure, we don't have information on what we're looking at for the following fighters. However, the context I see the additional fighters in, is that the subtext that they are "sold separately from the Fighter's Pass" is because they would be a part of their own Fighter Pass, not so much that they would be sold on their own. I could be wrong, and I could go on as to why, but after discussions with friends of mine, I have reason to think it's more than just singular fighters.

In addition, let's say you make Shantae, for all intents and purposes, a fighter. That Spirit, which has a gameplay purpose, is now obsolete. In adding characters that are already in Smash in a non-playable role as playable, they're effectively removing content from the game. The way Sakurai sees it, they've "joined the battle" already, so making those characters playable doesn't mean a new character is joining the battle. In the same game, this has never happened before. While a lot of other things "haven't happened before", I can't say that removing content to add content is Sakurai's style, especially when the pool of characters is still just as vibrant as ever.
 
Shroob

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Scoliosis Jones said:
I don't see any reason to think he'd change his mind, especially when he had the opportunity to add any of the characters he made into a Spirit or Assist Trophy:

1) At the beginning of development for the game
2) When planning DLC

Just because we're getting, potentially, a Season 2 of DLC doesn't mean he's going to go back on that. He had the option of adding Waluigi, Lyn, Shantae, and others. But he decided against doing that. I understand those characters have demand, but there are many characters that have demand. Plenty, I'd say. Sakurai could literally do 2 more Seasons of DLC that bring in entirely new series to Smash that expand the series even further, even dabbling into a few first party picks that aren't already in Smash, and not even touch the Assist Trophies or Spirits in game.

Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, Claude, Astral Chain protags, a new Pokemon...then, you've still got Leon/Jill/Chris, Heihachi or Jin, Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell, Dante, Sora, Sol Badguy, Minecraft Steve, Crash Bandicoot, Monster Hunter, Tracer, Doom Slayer, Dragonborn, Ryu Hayabusa...and likely several more.

Sure, we don't have information on what we're looking at for the following fighters. However, the context I see the additional fighters in, is that the subtext that they are "sold separately from the Fighter's Pass" is because they would be a part of their own Fighter Pass, not so much that they would be sold on their own. I could be wrong, and I could go on as to why, but after discussions with friends of mine, I have reason to think it's more than just singular fighters.

In addition, let's say you make Shantae, for all intents and purposes, a fighter. That Spirit, which has a gameplay purpose, is now obsolete. In adding characters that are already in Smash in a non-playable role as playable, they're effectively removing content from the game. The way Sakurai sees it, they've "joined the battle" already, so making those characters playable doesn't mean a new character is joining the battle. In the same game, this has never happened before. While a lot of other things "haven't happened before", I can't say that removing content to add content is Sakurai's style, especially when the pool of characters is still just as vibrant as ever.
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I mean I think Shantae has a 0 percent shot but couldn't they just rename the existing spirit to the game it's from and have the fighter spirit use the most recent art.
 
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Guys.

Someone is trying to submit the Sans outfit on Modeler's Resource.

MY TIME HAS COME.

(Also, someone is trying to submit Tooty, Bottles, Mumbo Jumbo, and Gruntilda!)
 
D

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Scoliosis Jones said:
I don't see any reason to think he'd change his mind, especially when he had the opportunity to add any of the characters he made into a Spirit or Assist Trophy:

1) At the beginning of development for the game
2) When planning DLC

Just because we're getting, potentially, a Season 2 of DLC doesn't mean he's going to go back on that. He had the option of adding Waluigi, Lyn, Shantae, and others. But he decided against doing that. I understand those characters have demand, but there are many characters that have demand. Plenty, I'd say. Sakurai could literally do 2 more Seasons of DLC that bring in entirely new series to Smash that expand the series even further, even dabbling into a few first party picks that aren't already in Smash, and not even touch the Assist Trophies or Spirits in game.

Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, Claude, Astral Chain protags, a new Pokemon...then, you've still got Leon/Jill/Chris, Heihachi or Jin, Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell, Dante, Sora, Sol Badguy, Minecraft Steve, Crash Bandicoot, Monster Hunter, Tracer, Doom Slayer, Dragonborn, Ryu Hayabusa...and likely several more.

Sure, we don't have information on what we're looking at for the following fighters. However, the context I see the additional fighters in, is that the subtext that they are "sold separately from the Fighter's Pass" is because they would be a part of their own Fighter Pass, not so much that they would be sold on their own. I could be wrong, and I could go on as to why, but after discussions with friends of mine, I have reason to think it's more than just singular fighters.

In addition, let's say you make Shantae, for all intents and purposes, a fighter. That Spirit, which has a gameplay purpose, is now obsolete. In adding characters that are already in Smash in a non-playable role as playable, they're effectively removing content from the game. The way Sakurai sees it, they've "joined the battle" already, so making those characters playable doesn't mean a new character is joining the battle. In the same game, this has never happened before. While a lot of other things "haven't happened before", I can't say that removing content to add content is Sakurai's style, especially when the pool of characters is still just as vibrant as ever.
Click to expand...
You could argue that Sakurai chose against adding Mewtwo by making him a trophy before putting him into DLC. He very well could just make a 180 if he so chooses, at least with spirits. You can't argue otherwise, I find.

Now this is not me saying "Sakurai can add Geno, Shantae, Andy, Isaac, and lyn, therefore, he will add them." That mindset sets us up for disappointment. This is me arguing that we shouldn't keep a closed mind on who our options are. I do think at least one assist trophy or spirit is going to make it in (and you know who it is if you look at my sig), because why not? Core fan appeal is how Banjo got in.

But I agree that games not yet represented have a far stronger chance of making it in than characters who are represented already in some way like Three Houses and Gen 8. It all comes down to who we see first after Wave 1.
 
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BlueMonk

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Scoliosis Jones said:
I don't see any reason to think he'd change his mind, especially when he had the opportunity to add any of the characters he made into a Spirit or Assist Trophy:

1) At the beginning of development for the game
2) When planning DLC

Just because we're getting, potentially, a Season 2 of DLC doesn't mean he's going to go back on that. He had the option of adding Waluigi, Lyn, Shantae, and others. But he decided against doing that. I understand those characters have demand, but there are many characters that have demand. Plenty, I'd say. Sakurai could literally do 2 more Seasons of DLC that bring in entirely new series to Smash that expand the series even further, even dabbling into a few first party picks that aren't already in Smash, and not even touch the Assist Trophies or Spirits in game.

Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, Claude, Astral Chain protags, a new Pokemon...then, you've still got Leon/Jill/Chris, Heihachi or Jin, Lloyd Irving or Yuri Lowell, Dante, Sora, Sol Badguy, Minecraft Steve, Crash Bandicoot, Monster Hunter, Tracer, Doom Slayer, Dragonborn, Ryu Hayabusa...and likely several more.

Sure, we don't have information on what we're looking at for the following fighters. However, the context I see the additional fighters in, is that the subtext that they are "sold separately from the Fighter's Pass" is because they would be a part of their own Fighter Pass, not so much that they would be sold on their own. I could be wrong, and I could go on as to why, but after discussions with friends of mine, I have reason to think it's more than just singular fighters.

In addition, let's say you make Shantae, for all intents and purposes, a fighter. That Spirit, which has a gameplay purpose, is now obsolete. In adding characters that are already in Smash in a non-playable role as playable, they're effectively removing content from the game. The way Sakurai sees it, they've "joined the battle" already, so making those characters playable doesn't mean a new character is joining the battle. In the same game, this has never happened before. While a lot of other things "haven't happened before", I can't say that removing content to add content is Sakurai's style, especially when the pool of characters is still just as vibrant as ever.
Click to expand...
He has no obligation to remove spirits if a character gets in. He can just give them a little (subtitle) or something. The point is that since planning the base roster and DLC, its entirely possible he could have changed his mind on some characters. If Sakurai wants to put a character in I doubt he would let a spirit stop him, though an assist trophy might be a different story. Its also inaccurate to say he had the opportunity to include those characters when he had limited time to implement new characters in the base game and a limited amount of slots for the first fighter pass.
 
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BlueMonk said:
a limited amount of slots for the first fighter pass.
Click to expand...
In addition, we know that DLC has been planned since Spring of last year. AKA before the Waluigi, Isaac, Rex backlash.
 
SnakeFighter64

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Opossum said:
This just seems like such a backwards way of looking at things to me. We play as characters, not franchises. I'd take an interesting character from a pre-existing series long before some schlock like Earthworm Jim or something just because it's new.
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Fire Emblem. Has. Been. Done. I've seen the whole "fantasy weapon weilder/anime protagonist/down special counter shlock". You're gonna try to tell me that if he adds a Three Houses character it won't feel exactly like the other 7 characters in the game.

Also, Earthworm Jim would be amazing.
Shadowwolflink said:
"I don't like it so it's wrong and it doesn't belong in my Smash game"

Just admit it, that's exactly what this argument is.
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It's not because I don't like it. It's because I'm tired of it.
Bolderousness said:
But we're saying Three Houses doesn't just give you a different character. It's soundtrack has hip hop, trap, and dubstep, the general structure of Fodlan and the academy can make interesting stages, and its cast all have visually unique characteristics and designs.

Like the only thing it shares with other FE games from a first impression standpoint are turn based strategy rpg, the artist, and the fact that it's from Fire Emblem.
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Fighting game characters fill a niche. In typical games it's archetypes. Military, Ninja, Boxer, martial artist, etc. In Smash, those archetypes are replaced by the franchises they come from. Even if they play completely differently, they still look similar, act similar, have similar strategies, they fill the same archetype.
Wyoming said:
Not implying Fire Emblem fans do this, but why is it a fan-rule that Zelda characters can't be in due to being one-shots yet this doesn't apply to Fire Emblem?

Always found that confusing me.
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I don't like that either. I don't think it should apply to Zelda when it clearly doesn't apply to anything else. I just don't think we should jump to include a new character from the newest game before it's had any chance to prove itself. It needs to be beloved. It needs to have a legacy.
 
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The OK Ko finale was amazing. Touching but also wild. What a great show, I wish it got more love
 
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SnakeFighter64 said:
Fighting game characters fill a niche. In typical games it's archetypes. Military, Ninja, Boxer, martial artist, etc. In Smash, those archetypes are replaced by the franchises they come from. Even if they play completely differently, they still look similar, act similar, have similar strategies, they fill the same archetype.
Click to expand...
So if I understand your logic, Ganondorf having the same moveset as Captain Falcon for three games is fine because they're from different series?
 
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I'm gonna be honest, at this point I unironically want a FNAF mii costume. After the memes the Sans costume has created, I just really want it. lol I mean, all FNAF Games (except VR and maybe World) are coming to Switch so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

TL;DR: I need a Freddy Mii Costume for memes.
 
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SnakeFighter64 said:
How do the two relate. At all.

And no. It's not okay. Because Ganondorf doesn't do anything he does in his home series.
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But your previous logic implies that movesets don't matter because series representation is what's ultimately important. But now movesets do matter, and we have argued that Three Houses has characters who function very differently from the generic anime sword user. So which is it? Franchise or moveset?
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Shroob said:
I mean I think Shantae has a 0 percent shot but couldn't they just rename the existing spirit to the game it's from and have the fighter spirit use the most recent art.
Click to expand...
Again, to Sakurai, that character "joined the battle" already. They just aren't playable. They serve a different purpose is all.

Guynamednelson said:
Probably because he couldn't consider them at all, since Nintendo had a list of approved characters?
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That list is a fabrication and is complete fan speculation. There's nothing to suggest he had a list in reality.

Again, that still doesn't refute the fact that he could have made characters that are or have been AT's into Playable characters. However, he decided not to.
Bolderousness said:
You could argue that Sakurai chose against adding Mewtwo by making him a trophy before putting him into DLC. He very well could just make a 180 if he so chooses, at least with spirits. You can't argue otherwise, I find.

Now this is not me saying "Sakurai can add Geno, Shantae, Andy, Isaac, and lyn, therefore, he will add them." That mindset sets us up for disappointment. This is me arguing that we shouldn't keep a closed mind on who our options are. I do think at least one assist trophy or spirit is going to make it in (and you know who it is if you look at my sig), because why not? Core fan appeal is how Banjo got in.

But I agree that games not yet represented have a far stronger chance of making it in than characters who are represented already in some way like Three Houses and Gen 8. It all comes down to who we see first after Wave 1.
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This is fair. However, the difference, I would argue, between Trophies in Wii U and Spirits in Ultimate, is that Spirits serve a gameplay and story purpose. The entire concept is that they have their function because they aren't playable. Trophies had no such purpose aside from being collected.

Going by Sakurai's logic (not mine btw lol) if a character like Shantae (just an example) became playable, then she wouldn't be a spirit anymore. This means her Spirit, by his logic, wouldn't exist. It's bizarre, but I'm basing that entirely on the logic of what they were created for from the guy who directs the game.

I don't see it happening, but that doesn't mean it can't. But from my point of view, everything he has done so far suggests he decided not to do that. The 2nd batch of DLC is likely because of the sales and success of the first set, which notably, has nothing but entirely new content to Smash. I would predict the man would continue with the model they have been rolling with since the beginning. That's mainly why I'm not convinced that this setup is going to change.
BlueMonk said:
He has no obligation to remove spirits if a character gets in. He can just give them a little (subtitle) or something. The point is that since planning the base roster and DLC, its entirely possible he could have changed his mind on some characters. If Sakurai wants to put a character in I doubt he would let a spirit stop him, though an assist trophy might be a different story. Its also inaccurate to say he had the opportunity to include those characters when he had limited time to implement new characters in the base game and a limited amount of slots for the first fighter pass.
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I don't quite agree it's all that inaccurate. He had a limited amount of picks he could have made considering time constraints, and yet, despite folks wanting Waluigi or Lyn, he didn't choose to upgrade them when he absolutely could have. He didn't do it then, and I see no reason to think he would do it now.

(Bruh, the amount of times I had to save this in order to respond to everybody who quoted me was nuts. Jeez lol)
 
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SnakeFighter64

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Bolderousness said:
But your previous logic implies that movesets don't matter because series representation is what's ultimately important. But now movesets do matter, and we have argued that Three Houses has characters who function very differently from the generic anime sword user. So which is it? Franchise or moveset?
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It's not just one or the other. It's a complicated balance of both. If there were only like, 2 other Fire Emblem characters in this game, then sure. Fire away. But we have EVERYONE. Which includes all 7 characters he's done in the path from one of Nintendo's b-tier, arguably c-tier, franchises. So in this particular instance, representation trumps moveset uniqueness and Fire Emblem is rendered out of the running.
 
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Scoliosis Jones said:
This is fair. However, the difference, I would argue, between Trophies in Wii U and Spirits in Ultimate, is that Spirits serve a gameplay and story purpose. The entire concept is that they have their function because they aren't playable. Trophies had no such purpose aside from being collected.

Going by Sakurai's logic (not mine btw lol) if a character like Shantae (just an example) became playable, then she wouldn't be a spirit anymore. This means her Spirit, by his logic, wouldn't exist. It's bizarre, but I'm basing that entirely on the logic of what they were created for from the guy who directs the game.

I don't see it happening, but that doesn't mean it can't. But from my point of view, everything he has done so far suggests he decided not to do that. The 2nd batch of DLC is likely because of the sales and success of the first set, which notably, has nothing but entirely new content to Smash. I would predict the man would continue with the model they have been rolling with since the beginning. That's mainly why I'm not convinced that this setup is going to change.
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The issue with arguing canon is that World of Light isn't even consistent with its own ruleset. Remember, Kirby escaped Galeem in the intro. But in WoL, there are dedicated battles where you fight Kirby vessels, which is contradictory. I seriously don't think we gotta worry about consistency with the rules of this game's narrative.
 
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