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Professor Pumpkaboo

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Well, that's it. :ulthero: has officially been banned from tournaments
in South Australia only.
what *******- I mean, what cowerds
 
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Raxxel

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If we get a PlayStation All-Stars 2 with an actually good roster (one that preferably includes Crash, Sora, Morgana, and Vibri at the very least), that would be what would convince me to finally want a PlayStation
Edit: I also want Cloud, Jill and Croc
AND LARA CROFT, HOW THE HELL WAS SHE NOT IN THE ORIGINAL
John Dylan Smith liked your comment. King still watches over us god bless.
 

CosmicQuark

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I wouldn't even argue Hero is top tier. Yeah, he can get some pretty cheesy kills on you, but luck is such a huge part of Hero's moveset, there's no way you can get consistent results with him, especially in a competitive match.
While I don't agree with banning Hero until we get enough quantitative results, I feel like people overestimate how luck is a detriment to Hero. When you pull up the screen, most times you'll get something you need, and if not, you can just keep flipping through until you find one in 2-3 checks. Hocus Pocus unreliable? Then don't use it. MP is supposed to be another balancing tool that is too easy to cheese. Out of MP? Just Smash attack a couple times and you're back to enough MP, within seconds, to use spells. And hey, if you're lucky, by doing Smash attacks to fill MP you may also get a crit and kill them instantly. Too many moves are instant kills, and the bad moves can just be ignored. All in theory.

In practice, so far, I've yet to see a pro player consistently play Hero in an actual match. So it still is possible that in practice the character is balanced well to where it's not as broken as it seems. But I have a feeling that's what it's like now, but that could change. While I'm not on the ban train because it's too soon, I am also not a fan of the hypocrisy of not including items (because of luck) but including Hero (where moves are based on items--like Death's scythe, healing food, fake Smash ball)--unlike in a match with items, non-Hero characters can't take advantage of them. But, that's why I don't watch competitive Smash, for the most part, the decisions are weird, and make for a boring watch for someone like me (not to mention banning almost every stage so we see the same ******* Pokemon or EarthBound stages over and over again). Which is why I mostly stay out of this debate--not into competitive play, so I don't get a vote. But, those are some of the reasons why I don't generally watch in the first place. :upsidedown:
 

Raxxel

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Well, that's it. :ulthero: has officially been banned from tournaments
in South Australia only.
Hoes mad. Character isn't even that good lmao. I don't even have normals-ass character. Ganondorf looks like a bullet train compared to me-ass character. My entire neutral relies on a resource meter-ass character. Gotta hope I get lucky in my menu or get gimped-ass character. My entire playstyle is a gimmick-ass character.

I love playing Hero btw
 

Metal Shop X

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Competitive play: *breath*

:ulthero: and the boyz & Arsene: We are going to ruin this game whole career.
 

Shadowwolflink

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As someone who isn't really into competitive Smash, I can totally get behind Hero being banned. Not because I have anything against the character, but because I think too much of his moveset revolves around random occurrences.

There would eventually be discussions similar to "would he have still been able to win that match if he didn't get this random critical hit?" or "he only won that match because he got Magic Burst twice in a row."
 

Rie Sonomura

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Sometimes I deadass still can’t believe the entirety of Dead or Alive 6’s DLC is close to $999, and since KT is behind Dissidia NT, they’re doing the same for the PC version... “free” as if

still got a ways to go before either reach Train Simulator levels of insane DLC tho
 

Dark Bagel

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Wait didn't a K.Rool win a major there? Lmao guess they're just scrubs there brb traveling to Australia to win all the majors
Obviously the only reason K.Rool took a victory there is because all wild animals are approximately 4x deadlier upon entering Australia, and crocodiles are no execption. Instead of Blast-O-Matic, his final smash there is replaced with him actually giving in to his instincts and biting down full force on the opponent, dragging them down deep below the water's surface.
 
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Wario Bros.

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So is there a certain day/time when this weekend's Pokémon World Championships shows off the reveal (assuming there is one)?
 
D

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Obviously the only reason K.Rool took a victory there is because all wild animals are approximately 4x deadlier upon entering Australia, and crocodiles are no execption. Instead of Blast-O-Matic, his final smash there is replaced with him actually giving in to his instincts and biting down full force on the opponent, dragging them down deep below the water's surface.
Nah, the real reason is that their tier lists are upside-down just like everything else there.
 
D

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Sometimes I think that the characters I love the most from Smash are cursed.

>The Metroid newcomers are received by the competitive scene in a negative way outside of ZSS (the one who I don’t really care about).
>K.Rool started being liked but now most people hate him.
>Ken is seen as a mediocre fighter by some.
>Now Hero is straight on banned from some tournaments.

At this rate, I could easily expect Crash to be either way “worse than Hero” for many or just the worst character in the game
 
D

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Well, that's it. :ulthero: has officially been banned from tournaments
in South Australia only.
First people say :ultjoker: is busted
Then people say :ulthero: rng is op and he must be banned
How worse can it get for:ultbanjokazooie:?
 

Guh-Huzzah!

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Sometimes I think that the characters I love the most from Smash are cursed.

>The Metroid newcomers are received by the competitive scene in a negative way outside of ZSS (the one who I don’t really care about).
>K.Rool started being liked but now most people hate him.
>Ken is seen as a mediocre fighter by some.
>Now Hero is straight on banned from some tournaments.

At this rate, I could easily expect Crash to be either way “worse than Hero” for many or just the worst character in the game
Focusing on only the negative side of things isn't going to get you anywhere.

>Ridley is finally playable after all these years, alongside Dark Samus.
>K. Rool's moveset has loads of fun references and callbacks to the DKC games.
>Ken has a much different personality compared to Ryu, as seen in his unique animations.
>Hero is pretty much a giant *** love letter to the DQ series.
 
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BlueMonk

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Sometimes I think that the characters I love the most from Smash are cursed.

>The Metroid newcomers are received by the competitive scene in a negative way outside of ZSS (the one who I don’t really care about).
>K.Rool started being liked but now most people hate him.
>Ken is seen as a mediocre fighter by some.
>Now Hero is straight on banned from some tournaments.

At this rate, I could easily expect Crash to be either way “worse than Hero” for many or just the worst character in the game
I don't think many people hate King K. Rool... and from what I've heard, the Australian smash scene isn't exactly known for their skill. I wouldn't really worry about their Hero ban, it will probably be reverted anyways considering the backlash.
 

CosmicQuark

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Sometimes I think that the characters I love the most from Smash are cursed.

>The Metroid newcomers are received by the competitive scene in a negative way outside of ZSS (the one who I don’t really care about).
>K.Rool started being liked but now most people hate him.
>Ken is seen as a mediocre fighter by some.
>Now Hero is straight on banned from some tournaments.

At this rate, I could easily expect Crash to be either way “worse than Hero” for many or just the worst character in the game
First people say :ultjoker: is busted
Then people say :ulthero: rng is op and he must be banned
How worse can it get for:ultbanjokazooie:?
I don't think Banjo & Kazooie or Crash are likely to encounter these problems--they're very traditional platforming characters and a faithful adaptation of their moves would probably not lead to gimmicks perceived as overly broken. If anything, their problem would likely being considered low-tier, as some pro players have speculated based on what we saw from Banjo & Kazooie's limited gameplay. Though, in that example, their Wonderwing move could either be considered a high-tier or broken move, depending on how its implemented. I think Joker and Hero's issue is the difficulties of adapting a RPG character to a fighting game--the more faithful the moves are, the less balanced it may be in a fighting game, and finding that balance may be trickier than platforming characters that already fit the type of game Smash is.

My hope is that Banjo & Kazooie are all-around characters--jack of all trades, master of none, like they are in their games. Either in the middle, or slightly above the middle. I do not see it likely them being high tier.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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I think Joker and Hero's issue is the difficulties of adapting a RPG character to a fighting game--the more faithful the moves are, the less balanced it may be in a fighting game, and finding that balance may be trickier than platforming characters that already fit the type of game Smash is.
I think the problem is you have to adapt to the characters and since no one wants to, they go the coward way out and say they suck/ ban them
 

FalconFire93

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Well, that's it. :ulthero: has officially been banned from tournaments
in South Australia only.
They need to learn how to counter against him with some practice, in other words “Git gud.”

 

CosmicQuark

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I think the problem is you have to adapt to the characters and since no one wants to, they go the coward way out and say they suck/ ban them
I think that's overly dismissive. I think that it's true that people are quick to say "ban", rather than trying to adapt, which should be what's optimal. But if a character is too broken that it becomes difficult or improbable to adapt to, I have no qualms about the discussion of should they be banned in competitive play--where seemingly innocuous things are banned for a variety of reasons. We're definitely not at that point yet--first we'd have to have the quantitative data to see if they're actually balanced, and if they are, then it becomes an issue of adapting. And even if they are broken, it's not enough to say they are banned--certain moves could be banned instead of the whole character. But just flat out saying Hero can be adapted to is too much of a strong statement this early on, as those who say he should be banned. To call them cowards is uncalled for.
 
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ZephyrZ

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I can't remember where, but I saw somewhere that all the Pokemon may get cut from Smash because TPC is stingy or something, because some Pokemon don't have their shiny forms or something
Nah, that's fake news. All the Pokemon are getting cut next game, but it's just so that they can improve the overall quality of the game's animations.
 
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IsmaR

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As someone who isn't really into competitive Smash, I can totally get behind Hero being banned. Not because I have anything against the character, but because I think too much of his moveset revolves around random occurrences.

There would eventually be discussions similar to "would he have still been able to win that match if he didn't get this random critical hit?" or "he only won that match because he got Magic Burst twice in a row."
I get the point of the message you're trying to get across, but this is a terrible example.

Magic Burst depletes all MP, with its effectiveness relying entirely on having near full MP to begin with (low MP Magic Burst is basically so situational/bad that it's never worth using, especially when you already need to be careful due to not having enough MP to even recover off stage).
 

Potato_

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So none of you are ACTUALLY gonna read why that tournament banned Hero right? Cause they flat out acknowledged it's not because he's "op" or not.

We want to emphasise that this ban is not because hero is too strong, but because he is anti-competitive. We believe that tournaments are meant to provide an opportunity for players to demonstrate their skill and that, as a general rule, the player who plays more skilfully should emerge victorious. Hero's design has a very strong potential to de-emphasise player skill which isn’t fair for those who work hard to improve their abilities for competition.
They even acknowledged the common counter that "Luigi, Peach, G&W have rng too!".

Additionally, even other random effects in the game, such as G&W's Hammer or Peach's turnips, still require the player to connect with the move. Although it is not a central issue, many of Hero's random tools, such as magic burst edgeguards, unblockable kamikazees or psych up critical shield breaks are frequently unavoidable and decide whole stocks. Random kill power and mobility buffs as well as free Zoom recoveries have no counterplay and can significantly effect the outcome of a match.
Their reasoning is perfectly fine, even if I don't think Hero needs to be banned I can see why they made the decision.
 

TheMightyP

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So none of you are ACTUALLY gonna read why that tournament banned Hero right? Cause they flat out acknowledged it's not because he's "op" or not.



They even acknowledged the common counter that "Luigi, Peach, G&W have rng too!".



Their reasoning is perfectly fine, even if I don't think Hero needs to be banned I can see why they made the decision.
I have more of an issue in how quickly the decision was made without adequate time to actually determine if RNG carries Hero as hard as people claim. Some of the reasoning isn't that great either, Kamikazee's easy to dodge, Crit F-Smash actually has negative shield damage, and getting hit by a psyche crit is honestly on the shielder considering how slow the move is, Zoom DOES have counterplay with how slow the startup is, and the landing can be caught by an anti-air, really the only issue he has is Magic Burst, but even that's rare to get.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I get the point of the message you're trying to get across, but this is a terrible example.

Magic Burst depletes all MP, with its effectiveness relying entirely on having near full MP to begin with (low MP Magic Burst is basically so situational/bad that it's never worth using, especially when you already need to be careful due to not having enough MP to even recover off stage).
You can also get hit out of Magic Burst. Meaning you can lose ALL your MP and get NO reward, which for a character with such a bad disadvantage state, is the worst possible thing that can happen beyond Kamikaze last stock
 
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