SoCal Power Rankings (October 28, 2007)- Will the update ever happen?

[petoo0]

How do you know those weren't fake names released by the panel to psych people out? We're quite crafty, you know.

oh no neal. i dont mean of names ive heard from others. im saying of people i personally think made the lis tthis time around. not what others are saying. and i havent spamed on it so ill see if im right. and yes neal is top tier. <3 neal. and i eat silentbretts (emericans).

 

[kmkzSP1K3R]

interesting...

 

[nublet06]

99%!!!!!!!!!

thats like......almost 100%

 

[jake the boy]

Cmon, update the list

 

[araknophobik]

i havent heard of azn_lep at any tourny's lately
the fact that he made it, and luigi didn't is sad >_<

 

[romeo619]

Hmmzz
interesting

 

[BeatOfAzia]

What an awesome list... can't wait to face those people for a spot ^_^

 

[CAOTIC]

OK Arak, let's discuss Evilnemesis and Azn Lep. They have both been to one recent tournament since the first list was made, and admittedly neither of their results from those tournaments have been able to give them placements into the top 20 (this also applies to BoA and Aznchefii). So what if there's no recent useful results? We go back into history looking at their overall record. Azn Lep has a stronger record than the 4 of them, defeating Kaiser in 0C2 and Luninspectra in MLG. Aznchefii would be the next favorite with a strong record from within Socal. Until the day comes when the people around the bottom end of the top 20 begin to defeat people in the top 20 on a recent basis, we will continue to look at a person's overall record as a basis of entry.

As for Blitz, he's been travelling to many tournaments lately, providing us with solid data. While his results are mixed, acheivements include defeating Gabe, Champ and Pbody in recent tournaments.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Blitz? He's been getting way better recently, and he's a cool guy, but 18th? I didn't think he was better than Pat, or Luigi, or aznchef.

Over what period does consistency take place? A couple of tournaments? Four months

Do you guys have specific tourny results of Player A beating Player B, C, D, etc. higher than him that factors into your decision? Why not share?

 

[joejoe22802]

Whoa blitz? tite lol good for SA that means Im not "that" far woot.... and other than that some interesting changes

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Do money matches count for consideration?

 

[xDARKLINKx]

everyone who complains about not being on....


just go to more tourneys if you deserve to be on you have to show it not say it.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

There's an inherent problem with that, though.

For example, what if you stopped going to most tournies? You agree that you should drop off top 20? Of course not, cause it's already known you're that good. I know, a counter argument is that people just can't "know" such and such is worth it, but isn't this list being compiled by the most knowledgable players in the So Cal scene? So shouldn't they know Player A doesn't go to a bunch of tournies, but is still top 20 in So Cal?

 

[nealdt]

We draw our results from every local tourney we can. Much of the data we use can be found on my website, though we do also look at tourneys not on that site.

We do not currently consider money matches (that I'm aware of). But that may change.

And yes, go to tournaments.

 

[nealdt]

As for people who don't attend tourneys... we have to draw the line somewhere. Because no one plays at a consistent level at every event they attend. So how can we possibly draw conclusions relative to other players if people don't attend multiple events?

 

[NeighborhoodP]

So why not include money matches then? Wouldn't that represent a better chance for people not on the list and who don't attend tournies to move up?

 

[CAOTIC]

Everyone on the list has proven themselves as a top 20 contender. Some of the people that remain on the new list have done close to squat, but the panelists already know where they stand. This is because like I said earlier, we take into account results of new AND old. A person who is good yet fairly inactive isn't likely to plummet off the list as fast as you'd like, not until there is substantial evidence to suggest they do not longer belong on the list (ie - extreme inactivity).

 

[theFalcoMasta]

daaayyum 0_0 socal skill gotta be nuts if S.O.S. isn't good enough for top 20 ;_;

dont worry s.o.s. you're still the man!! (come back to tx plz , even tho i kno ur gonna stay in cali but we can always hope lol)

 

[nealdt]

And let's take the tourney inactivity to the extreme. What if all 20 of our list members stop going to tournaments? Do we just stop updating the list? How could anyone prove they belong on there if they never get a chance to beat the people who are on it? After all, it's a fallacy to just look at someone and say "they're better than so and so." Hard results are required.

So clearly, decay due to inactivity is required in order for the list to mean anything.

 

[nealdt]

And SOS isn't on the list because he hasn't gone to a single tourney since coming to CA. Except for a bi-weekly, from which he was disqualified for going AWOL. This in no way reflects our opinions toward SOS' skill level; we simply feel he has to prove himself before getting on.

We know he has the potential to be high on the list. We just gotta see it in action.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

I don't want to sound like an ***, but a lot of people take these rankings pretty seriously. That's why knowing what tournies are counting mean a lot. For example, of the tournies at Neal's site, only UCSD and the Nexus one have been big and recent, good enough tournies to get real sample sizes. Basically, what are the upsets that jumped people up on this list or made you add new people? What definitively told you that Player A was better than Player B?

This problem is magnified because of the fact that there aren't a lot of pretty competitive tournies in any given month in So Cal (I'm talking something statistically significant here, not compared to other areas). So in these few opportunities people get -- like Nexus, for example -- if they don't get bracketed up against a top 20 player, and get knocked out by DSFs and ****, well, nothing is really proven.

And if there's not enough tangible evidence to advocate extreme moves, why update? This new update is basically considering all that happened in the six weeks (or whatever the time was) since the last update, and I'm just wondering if there has been enough of a sample size to justify a definitive belief in an update.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

We know he has the potential to be high on the list. We just gotta see it in action.

Why isn't that enough right there? What's so hard about saying, "Well, we got a pretty respected panel, and we all agree SOS is easy top 20 in So Cal. His [insert ranking] right now is an approximation, and if he played in more tournies he could easily be higher, but you can just take our collective word for it: he's easily justified [insert placing]. I'm sure most of you would agree."

 

[jake the boy]

What was the recent tourney that Azn_Lep attended?

 

[nealdt]

Actually, we consider five of the tourneys listed to be relevant: Biweekly 9/16, UCSB, Nexus 2, Triweekly 10/21, and NCT2. There's also another biweekly we considered, the Mikomicon tourney, and the most recent triweekly. I'd say that's a pretty varied base of evidence to consider.

As for "why update"... why not? You're the one who seems to have the serious problem with everything we're doing. We think we're doing quite fine. And it's been almost two full months since the last list. So why not update?

 

[nealdt]

Why isn't that enough right there? What's so hard about saying, "Well, we got a pretty respected panel, and we all agree SOS is easy top 20 in So Cal. His [insert ranking] right now is an approximation, and if he played in more tournies he could easily be higher, but you can just take our collective word for it: he's easily justified [insert placing]. I'm sure most of you would agree."

What's so hard about accepting "We know SOS is easy top 20 in SoCal. His lack of a rank right now is due to complete inactivity in the region, and if he played in more tournies he could easily be higher."?

Are we really going to go through all this every time we make an update? Someone is always going to be upset. The system will never be perfect. So are you going to whine about every little change each time we make one?

 

[nealdt]

What was the recent tourney that Azn_Lep attended?

A tri-weekly, I believe.

 

[CAOTIC]

NeighborhoodP: http://infinityfx.net/teamwc/viewtopic.php?p=83#83

I catalogued all of the tournaments since the start of this list. The only tournaments I haven't are the Biweeklies, but the panelists know the results and discuss them as they usually aren't posted by the hosts. San Bernadino Tournaments are also of the same nature, (as in we discuss the results).

I try to catalog as many tournaments as possible and ask for the results of other tournaments through other panelists.

Which ones mean the most? Check the first post for an answer.

 

[Arash]

believe me, this list was agonizing to nail down, but i think we did a good job

and yes, it gets harder for us if people only go to one tournament between updates

 

[Evilnemesis]

San Bernadino Tournaments are also of the same nature, (as in we discuss the results).

Good to know my tournaments are considered "worthy" to be counted as part of the decision making. =]

 

[DieSuperFly]

Off with his headdddd

 

[NeighborhoodP]

"We know SOS is easy top 20 in SoCal."

Exactly my point, and apparently it went over your head. If everyone knows it, put him in. Common sense? If PC Chris moves to So Cal, you're saying you wouldn't put him in until he attended tournies? :|

And if you haven't noticed, I don't care about the individual movements in and of themselves... I'm examining the rationale and what specifically triggers this and this. It's easy to get general, but considering this is two months' time, there should be a simple list: "Player A knocked out Player B, which is huge; he gets upgraded for this." Instead it's all general and unspecific, to the point that you may as well not have one at all.

 

[DieSuperFly]

Off with his head!

 

[CAOTIC]

Can you plzzz plzzzz take me off the list........plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz begggggzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz kneelzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz begzzzzzzzzzz if you guys dont take me off the list im gonna flame this thread........ and i wont quit flamezz it...... so take me off =\

LOLZ then you'll just get warned and banned and Neal will delete your posts. Ken already tried to take himself off a list - didn't work

NeighborhoodP - It's still foolish to place SOS in a position anywhere in the top 20 that isn't justifyable. Part of being knowledgeable is through the use of factual data - not assumptions. For all we know he could not even be top 20 worthy. All we're asking is an honest effort from SOS and that will be that.

Potential =/= proof

 

[NeighborhoodP]

What the hell? How is it not justifiable? He has ALREADY proved it. Just because he didn't prove it here doesn't mean it's not justifiable. That is horrible logic. My example still stands: PC wouldn't be in top 20 because he hasn't proved anything in So Cal, right?

 

[DieSuperFly]

offf withh his headdd

 

[CAOTIC]

PC =/= SOS

Contact us on AIM if you want to discuss it further.

 

[nealdt]

Exactly my point, and apparently it went over your head. If everyone knows it, put him in. Common sense? If PC Chris moves to So Cal, you're saying you wouldn't put him in until he attended tournies? :|

But PC Chris has very specific data to back up his deserved ranking. What has SOS done recently that we can use? We don't know how to compare his victories against random Texas people. And we DEMAND results. It's our #1 criteria.

Check out Arizona's power rankings thread. Zelgadis is nowhere to be seen even though he moved there. So clearly we aren't the only panel to require tourney results before adding a player to the list.

And if you haven't noticed, I don't care about the individual movements in and of themselves... I'm examining the rationale and what specifically triggers this and this. It's easy to get general, but considering this is two months' time, there should be a simple list: "Player A knocked out Player B, which is huge; he gets upgraded for this." Instead it's all general and unspecific, to the point that you may as well not have one at all.

You make many assumptions for someone who has no idea what process we use. We only consider specifics: who you beat, who you lose to, and with what frequency. There's nothing general or unspecific about it.

You also don't seem to realize that we volunteer our time to do this. CAOTIC has put in a ton of work collating tournament results for us to use in making our decisions. I personally don't have time to create a detailed list of every single point we bring up, and I doubt the other panelists do either.

 

[nealdt]

DSF: nothing an IP ban won't take care of. You don't have to care about the list, but spamming and flaming is unacceptable no matter what the cause. Please don't call my bluff. If you really want off, bring it up on AIM, not here.

 

[Silent Wolf]

whats the point of having a list if ppl can just ask to be taken off? it would be pointless having rankings, lol.
norcal takes ppl off i think.
and i think zelgadis isnt on the AZ list cause he moved back to norcal, i think. but then again, hes not on the norcal list either.
nvm, it hasnt been updated since he moved back.

also, if youre mission statement says that this is to give a general idea of how ppl in socal stand, then taking people off the list would be ********, and the mission wouldnt be complete.

i like ur new avatar cao. <3

 

[nublet06]

And SOS isn't on the list because he hasn't gone to a single tourney since coming to CA. Except for a bi-weekly, from which he was disqualified for going AWOL. This in no way reflects our opinions toward SOS' skill level; we simply feel he has to prove himself before getting on.

We know he has the potential to be high on the list. We just gotta see it in action.

he also went to OC2.....but im not trying to say he should be on the list. because he shouldnt. i dont even remember who he played.....but. yeah. and plus he lost to mike Y at the bi weekly. so if he was good enough to be like automatic top 10 or something he prolly should of won that match.

he is good....but needs to earn his spot like everyone else. i dont see him complaining about not being on.....so why are other people.