So why do Falco's feel like they have to short hop everything?

[Tommy_G]

I was playing with Falco and analyzing some attacks. Short hop aerials are so easy to punish because of hit lag unless you use them as you're landing and it's completely spaced(an exception is N-air which still gets punished).

The majority of the time Falco hits with aerials is when he is rising. So it got me thinking. Falco has the highest and fastest jump in the game, why don't we use it.

Using a Down air with a short hop hits the opponent and makes it virtually unpunishable except at around 100% because it hits them as high as you go(unless you run in, FHDA-Full hop down air, then di away).

FHBA-Full hop back airs- also hit on the way up. Not only do they hit on the way up, but they hit the whole distance of the full hop. I am aware all of you know the back air is a sex kick but I bet none of you would have looked at it like this.

Because of Falco's fast fall speed, this can follow up with a fast fell aerial(Falling back air tech chases rolls behind falco), a DJA -Double jump aerial(if timed right, it can hit opponents on the floor holding the shield), or fast falling to the ground and phantasm tech chase, shield grab, or whatever you think works.

This of course doesn't mean to spam it...anything spammed in this game is asking to get punished. Discuss.

 

[Dreadz18x]

could it be bad habits?

 

[Blad01]

WOOT !

You stole me my FJ Dair playstyle ! NO !

... I thought that would be a unique playstyle, and now you break my dreams

Well, anyway, FJ Dair is really good. It allows you to :

1) DI away when it is counter by a shield.
2) Combo ! Try a FJ Dair at mid percentages, then you can follow with an other Dair / What you want (Second jump Uair by example).
3) Pressure a shield / Surprise your opponent. Your frist Dair is shielded, fastfall, and Dair again. Too good.

However, FJ Dair won't replace SH Dair, but it's a good alternative.

On a side note, i also really like FJ Fair + Silent laser. That's a very good spacing move.

 

[J4pu]

This actually makes a noticeable change in Falco's playstyle, I never thought about doing this but it sounds like a really good idea
You are talking about using the rising aerial so as to hit the standing opponent as you go into a FH right?

TommyG always comes in here with new things for us to do, thanks for keeping me from losing faith in the falco boards, it hasn't been bread filled but that doesn't mean it's been productive either lately.

Will try to implement next time i play

 

[Tommy_G]

Blad01, yes it is really good but it's nothing to base a fighting style on. I'm sure you do fine, but make sure you can at least know how to do short hops. Short hop back airs create a wall like nothing else.

I'm pretty sure you've tried this, if not, you need to. Chaingrab to FJD on the stage. Try it and enjoy all of the tech chase options.

The only problem I have with FJF(Full jump fair) to silent laser is that since the f-air last almost the whole time you're in the air, they can jump up and punish you. FJF works to down air and back air too. You can also double jump before you hit the ground adding another mindgame.

The main positive about this move is that its practically unpunishable. The landing is punishable though if you land inside of someone shielding.

 

[J4pu]

FJDair > DJDair right before hitting the ground > Bair from behind them when you land.
If we had a good momentum cancelling move like the shine used to be there would be tons more options like canceling the height of any jump whenever you wanted.

 

[sandwhale]

seems like an interesting variation of your game but i'm not really convinced. FJ stops you from being punished right after you attack but leaves you very vulnerable on landing even if you DI away your opponent will have enough time to come to you. also in the case where you hit your opponent a SH will enable to stay on the offensive not letting him space his game properly unlike a FJ where both postion will simply be reset. not trying to bash your idea or the sort but all tactics have disadvantages that need to be stated. the question is now do the advantages outway the disadvantages?

 

[BleachigoZX]

I think anyone with a Sword/G&W(Darn) counters this.
But i will practice.
Also Falco ditto's are boring.

Edit: We need a thread to discuss habit's/mindgames.
That would give us something to talk about.

 

[Rat]

Dammit Tommy_G! Seriously I was just thinking about this and doing it the last couple weeks. I had been practicing hitting MK with FJDairs quite a bit.


A few more things. Minus on the shorter characters, rising bair is the best rising aerial. (It's much easier to space.) One the way down, either do another Bair, a laser, airdodge or a phantasm. Also watch out for battlefields middle platform, as Falco lands on it from a full jump. This being said Sliced Bread has a lot on FJ aerials.
Also on SHs. Of course they are bad. That's why you feint with them, then go for a jab grab or Fsmash. You need to watch SK92 more.

 

[8AngeL8]

Seems interesting, but SH just keeps your options open better. By full hopping, you limit yourself to just aerials for several seconds. SH means you can laser, reflector an approaching enemy, land into a jab combo or gatling combo, spot dodge into a grab, etc. You still have the option of aerials, but you get to take advantage of his ground game as well. If you were to stay in the air, your opponents will know exactly what you're going for and they'll punish it.

 

[J4pu]

I take back what i said earlier about DJDair right before you hit the ground again, except for very rare occasions, Falco doesn't like to lose his 2nd jump, and this will set you up to be gimped.
And come to think of it my game is worse when I'm above them coming down, it gives the opponent more advantages, but it wont hurt to throw it in every once in a while.

Seems interesting, but SH just keeps your options open better. By full hopping, you limit yourself to just aerials for several seconds. SH means you can laser, reflector an approaching enemy, land into a jab combo or gatling combo, spot dodge into a grab, etc. You still have the option of aerials, but you get to take advantage of his ground game as well. If you were to stay in the air, your opponents will know exactly what you're going for and they'll punish it.

The reason why this is possibly a good idea is because you don't get instantly punished if they shield your aerial, but rather after your attack clanks with their shield you put massive distance between yourself and them, even though the direction you are moving isnt especially advantageous

 

[Tommy_G]

Short hopping isn't bad with certain techniques, but with a lot of aerials it leave you open to be punished because of the delay when hitting with it(of course with the exception of N-air but even that gets punished)

Spacing SHBAs-Short hop back airs- and SHDAs -Short hop down airs- over and over again(without hitting them) creates a wall that usually makes them roll into you to set up a down smash(Falco's most damaging move) or anything else if you're fast enough.

Short hop with almost any aerial into their shields is like asking to get grabbed, side tilted, up tilted, any smash attack if the smash is fast enough, or any B attack if the B attack is fast enough. THIS IS WHAT ***** US AGAINST GAW. If Falco's learn to not jump into people, certain match ups are a lot easier. This isn't melee. Falco can't jump into people's shield and expect it to be ok.

Full jumping aerials and hitting on the way UP(Not Down) hits them and puts you so you can't be punished for hitting them. You should be fine every time you do it as long as you don't land into them with an aerial every time. Use phantasm to get away on FD; it's unpunishable. All other stages have platforms.

Angel, it's good that you're thinking, but don't completely shut down the full hop idea. Like any technique, it might be really good, but it's nothing to base a whole play style off of.

I take back what i said earlier about DJDair right before you hit the ground again, except for very rare occasions, Falco doesn't like to lose his 2nd jump, and this will set you up to be gimped.
And come to think of it my game is worse when I'm above them coming down, it gives the opponent more advantages, but it wont hurt to throw it in every once in a while.

DJDA should only be done if they're shielding expecting an attack. When you do it, it's extremely important to DI away and phantasm to be safe. Fast fall air dodging to the floor is good too as long as you get to the floor.

 

[Blad01]

Blad01, yes it is really good but it's nothing to base a fighting style on. I'm sure you do fine, but make sure you can at least know how to do short hops. Short hop back airs create a wall like nothing else.

... Your hurt me :/

Of course i know how to short hop X] As i said :

However, FJ Dair won't replace SH Dair, but it's a good alternative.

When i said FJ Fair > Silent laser, i was talking about a mindgame defensive move : You Fair in the air to prevent an aerial approach, or just make the opponent trying to approach you, then you DI back, silent laser, and follow with what you want.

Anyways, FJ are just good to mix up your playstyle and to become even more unpredictable ^^ (Since Falco is :/).

(PS : Oh yeah, and of course my last post was exaggerated XD I wouldn't base a playstyle on Full Hop, don't worry for me Toomy_G )

 

[Tommy_G]

... Your hurt me :/

Of course i know how to short hop X] As i said :



When i said FJ Fair > Silent laser, i was talking about a mindgame defensive move : You Fair in the air to prevent an aerial approach, or just make the opponent trying to approach you, then you DI back, silent laser, and follow with what you want.

Anyways, FJ are just good to mix up your playstyle and to become even more unpredictable ^^ (Since Falco is :/).

(PS : Oh yeah, and of course my last post was exaggerated XD I wouldn't base a playstyle on Full Hop, don't worry for me Tommy_G )

Actually it was a bad use of the pronoun 'you'. When I said 'you' the second time, I ment all falco mainers. Sorry dude, didn't mean it directly to you. From the posts I've seen from you, it looks like you know what you're doing. (all of these you pronouns directed to you that time. lmao)

BTW I think FJDA is better than short-hop-down-air-into-someone's-shield. I hit someone with a short hop reverse back air(strong hit) and they side stepped to stop the sliding and Ftilted me. I was like O_O wtf...

I think anyone with a Sword/G&W(Darn) counters this.
But i will practice.
Also Falco ditto's are boring.

Edit: We need a thread to discuss habit's/mindgames.
That would give us something to talk about.

I think I've tried before but I'll make another thread much later...when I feel like I need to. I don't think I can make a good thread if I'm not in the mood for it.

 

[LSDX]

We SH because you cannot chaingrab in the air :3

 

[PND]

I've been known to FJ bair/dair on occasion, but only as a chase. Or in Doubles, but that's another story.

 

[Tommy_G]

Jigglypuff?...This Is Falco!

*Kicks into death pit*

 

[PND]

*rising pounds back out of deathpit*

Hi guyz. Whaz goin on?

 

[Falkito]

could you show avideo?

im really interested about this technique

 

[J4pu]

or you could try doing it yourself since it rquires no imagination or practice at all,
Step 1: Don't be a scrub
Step 2: Press jump
Step 3: use aerial before you ascend over your opponent
Step 4: Profit? maybe, maybe not

 

[AvoiD]

Good job, Tommy ;].

But is there a good enough use for it? I don't really understand the point, and if you already proved it, my bad. I prob' missed it.

:D

 

[J4pu]

the point is that it is a change in playstyle that not many Falcos have been doing
it gives more options and makes you less predictable, it was not meant to replace the SH aerials just ot be added in at times.