sakuraZaKi
The Ultimate Sore Loser ♡
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although that may be, i still don't like the idea that hes as slow as SSBM's bowser
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So what were they thinking?
- Thread starter True Fool
- Start date
deathbrawl2
Smash Rookie
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- Dec 16, 2007
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I think that Ike has good moves but he is quite slow but if anyone gets nears is samsh attack then they will die, so if he is that bad then i think that he has strong moves and is a really good character
iron blade
Smash Ace
Ike's speed is simply a hurdle that has yet to be cleared.
Just so it's perfectly clear, I'm not whining because he's a horrible character. He is an incredibly poorly represented character. Ike does not move slow, and has no trouble hitting his enemies. Ike is not ungodly strong, nor is he this unflinching hulk of a man. He possesses no fiery explosion attack, he possesses an energy wave attack. His sword is not heavy, two-handed, or even a little longer than an average sword, in smash or FE.
It's just way too far from what Ike is supposed to be. If Sakurai wanted to make a hulking slow sword character he really should have picked Ganondorf instead.
EDIT: What is with this obnoxious speaking going on about "Smash Ike"? Every character in smash has some relation to at least one game when being made into a playable character. You can't say that smash Mario isn't based on any Mario game. Ike has two games to take from, and Sakurai took from neither. He took an idiotic explosion attack over Ike's real projectile, and he made up a bunch of weird stats for him as well.
It's just way too far from what Ike is supposed to be. If Sakurai wanted to make a hulking slow sword character he really should have picked Ganondorf instead.
EDIT: What is with this obnoxious speaking going on about "Smash Ike"? Every character in smash has some relation to at least one game when being made into a playable character. You can't say that smash Mario isn't based on any Mario game. Ike has two games to take from, and Sakurai took from neither. He took an idiotic explosion attack over Ike's real projectile, and he made up a bunch of weird stats for him as well.
RWB
Smash Ace
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Lol, try again. It's longer than it's original wielder in FE(Radiant Dawn, but still).
If it's longer than 120 cm, it's likely a two-handed sword. Even in PoR, it's FAR longer than that compared to Ike.
Never mind the fact that Ganon is a far faster swordsman than Ike could ever hope to be.
I'm an Ike fan too, but I've gotten over the fact that he is likely going to be bottom tier. I think that's what you need to do, too.
RWB
Smash Ace
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I never said it was bigger than Ike. The original wielder was a small framed woman, and it was longer than her, thats what I said. I doubt she was shorter than 130 cm.
Ragnell is a twohanded sword in design and length, that's OBVIOUS. to deny that is like saying that the blades are one handers, when they are obviously claymores.
Claymores are two-handers.
Stop trying to deny that, at least.
Stop trying to insult me, too.
Your entire argument is based on the sword being two-handed, or too big. So what if you can hold the sword two-handed, it doesn't mean it's designed for only two-handed use. The handle is long so that the sword may be swung two-handed, not because it has to be. His few attacks that do swing the sword two-handed are no faster than the one-handed swings.
The sword's length is not designed for exclusive two-handed use, or it certainly doesn't look that way in FE or Smash. A katana is designed so that it may be swung with one or two hands, a lot of swords are made that way. Certain swords are meant to be held with two hands at all times, the Ragnell is not one of them.
RWB
Smash Ace
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BY GOD! "Your entire argument is based on the sword being two-handed"
NO, this very discussion was about that and nothing else.
Oh, and your katana example is plain out stupid, as it is counted as a two-handed sword, even if it can be used in one hand.
"The handle is long so that the sword may be swung two-handed, not because it has to be."
...That's why they are called two-handed swords, bright-o. Even if I could swing around a claymore with one hand, it doesn't change the fact that the claymore is a two-handed sword.
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
I don't even want to get involved in this argument... but c'mon. "Ike isn't a proper respresentation of his character in his games".... B**** more please..... calm down.
This is a game that is suppose to be fun.. not accurate to the characters original games. Sakurai made the characters the way he thought that would work the best. He may have realized that the speed of Ike was a mistake and might change it, but he did all of the moves and such to the way that he thought that would work best for that character. Just accept that. If you don't like it... go buy a fricken FE game instead and enjoy what you think life should be like.
Basicall .... just calm the f*** down.
This is a game that is suppose to be fun.. not accurate to the characters original games. Sakurai made the characters the way he thought that would work the best. He may have realized that the speed of Ike was a mistake and might change it, but he did all of the moves and such to the way that he thought that would work best for that character. Just accept that. If you don't like it... go buy a fricken FE game instead and enjoy what you think life should be like.
Basicall .... just calm the f*** down.
Cless
Smash Champion
Did anyone ever stop to think that, even if the sword is huge, it's not that heavy since it's a divine sword and all?
Divinity is "light." >_>
In FE Ragnell is heavy (it's tied for the second heaviest sword in the game), it's just that Ike has a good speed stat.
This argument should never have been about how heavy Ragnell is, but about how fast Ike is. The sword is heavy in the game, in real life, and in smash.
In FE Ragnell is heavy (it's tied for the second heaviest sword in the game), it's just that Ike has a good speed stat.
This argument should never have been about how heavy Ragnell is, but about how fast Ike is. The sword is heavy in the game, in real life, and in smash.
Cless
Smash Champion
Well, I guess Altina had crazy str, spd, and skl. Besides, I thought weapon weight had more to do with strength before speed.
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
Weight only affects speed if the weight is greater then the constitution of the character.
RWB
Smash Ace
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Not in FE9 and FE10, where it's str instead of constitution. In the GBA games, it's exactly like you say.
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
The GBA were the first games i played and just assumed it was the same in every game...
But you know what happens when you assume.... right? Makes an a** out of u and me
But you know what happens when you assume.... right? Makes an a** out of u and me
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Hell yeah she did. She's a freakin' goddess.
Weapon wieght in PoR and RD dealt with speed. If the weapon weight was higher than your strength then you're speed was reduced by that difference. In the GBA games they used CON instead of Strength, and it decreased skill as well as speed.
It still explains nothing as to why he would have such a slow swing. That is what this is about, right? The sword isn't made so that he has to swing it two-handed, because it's not that heavy, that's my point.
I don't understand what you're getting at, so what if the sword is a bit heavy? The in-game stat definitely can't be counted, as that would mean Ike weighs less than a handaxe, or as much as two daggers. And as far as story-line goes, the sword is NEVER hinted at being heavy, like I said earlier, it barely made a thud when it hit the tree. The thing isn't even long, it's the same size as the Master Sword.
Character weight, and weapon weights aren't the same thing. The in-game stat does matter, since it says Ragnell is twice as heavy as other swords. Let me tell you that the weight differences between a two-handed and a single are only a few pounds, so at the least this means Ragnell is twice as big as a small sword, which is enough to make it two-handed.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Superninjabreadman
Smash Lord
People, do me a favor, go buy an exact (or as close as you can get) replica to Ike's sword, and try to swing it around as fast as he can, with as much controll as he does.
Ike= Slow not because he has a 2h sword.
Ike= Slow because they had to lower his speed and make his power make up for it.
Its the same sorta argument as "Why is ganondorf,bowser, and DK so slow? they dont have huge weapons like Ike does). Because they're powerfull, and slow. thats what you get for being powerfull. Slowness. Face it. No character in the game is going to be Uber Strong and Fast.(or just like they we're in their game, if that was true, Zelda wouldent have a moveset.)
Ike= Slow not because he has a 2h sword.
Ike= Slow because they had to lower his speed and make his power make up for it.
Its the same sorta argument as "Why is ganondorf,bowser, and DK so slow? they dont have huge weapons like Ike does). Because they're powerfull, and slow. thats what you get for being powerfull. Slowness. Face it. No character in the game is going to be Uber Strong and Fast.(or just like they we're in their game, if that was true, Zelda wouldent have a moveset.)
When you've been swinging heavy swords all your life, they don't tend to slow you down as much. And when you're a fictional character, muscle mass is often hidden by a light-frame and a pretty face.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Maybe someone who went to E4all can comment on Ike's grab range, how is it? If he's got a good grab range that makes for some hope. I think his lag will be fixed though, so here's hoping.
TamJammerz
Smash Apprentice
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I understand completely... And it seems people here are detesting upon this.
I expect Ike to still be slow by the time February 10th rolls by, and by then, I think Sakurai and SORA would've made enough improvements to at least bring his "Garbage Tier" up a notch.
Look at Link... He's slow, but has decent speed in his attacks... But Ike is just... Slow. Too slow. He's incredibly slow and his attacking speed is too slow to compensate for it.
Come on Nintendo... They should've learned by now that Slow + Power = Garbage. The only way I would improve upon this is add some more Super Armor frames into the attacks
I expect Ike to still be slow by the time February 10th rolls by, and by then, I think Sakurai and SORA would've made enough improvements to at least bring his "Garbage Tier" up a notch.
Look at Link... He's slow, but has decent speed in his attacks... But Ike is just... Slow. Too slow. He's incredibly slow and his attacking speed is too slow to compensate for it.
Come on Nintendo... They should've learned by now that Slow + Power = Garbage. The only way I would improve upon this is add some more Super Armor frames into the attacks
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Tiers don't exist yet for Brawl, there have been no tournaments. But yes, I know what you're saying, and super armor would probably be ideal, but we just don't know yet :\. With Jumpfest coming up in Japan, they would have to be completely oblivious with all things human to not see they need to give Ike speed buffs.
HappyBirthday
Smash Cadet
Whether he should be slow or not Ike should be slow the arguement here doesn't make sense. In FE you don't actually control Ike's actions you just tell him what to do. There is no way to know how weighed down he feels/ should feel
Cless
Smash Champion
Sure there is. They have stats for it.
orintemple
Smash Lord
From what I hear the only way to improve upon that for Ike would be to add Super Armor to all of his attacks for the entire attack XDI understand completely... And it seems people here are detesting upon this.
I expect Ike to still be slow by the time February 10th rolls by, and by then, I think Sakurai and SORA would've made enough improvements to at least bring his "Garbage Tier" up a notch.
Look at Link... He's slow, but has decent speed in his attacks... But Ike is just... Slow. Too slow. He's incredibly slow and his attacking speed is too slow to compensate for it.
Come on Nintendo... They should've learned by now that Slow + Power = Garbage. The only way I would improve upon this is add some more Super Armor frames into the attacks
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
He'll have a fair amount of super armor I assume. They at least need to speed up his f-smash, up smash, and at least a couple of his aerials. Hopefully Sakurai will pay attention to fan feedback from the Japan E4A (Jumpfest?).
Cless
Smash Champion
It's not the Japanese E for All. It's the Jump Comics convention.
SmashBro99
Smash Champion
I was suprised to hear that Ike is so slow, oh well.
Since the topic seems to be going towards the bad character direction, I feel I should reiterate. I'm not complaining because he's a bad character. If one of my favorite characters is bottom-tier, that's fine, there's nothing I can do about it. But I'm complaining that he is incredibly poorly represented character. He shouldn't be a power-house, super-armor frame touting slow-bag.
But on the subject of him being a playable character, slowness and super-armor a plenty, I do think that he needs some great super-armor on his start-up frames. And you shouldn't be able to grab someone out of super-armor either, it hurts the potential of super-armor terribly. And if his start-up frames are completely hidden, similar to how they are now, his super-armor could be very useful in punishing characters with post-lag.
But on the subject of him being a playable character, slowness and super-armor a plenty, I do think that he needs some great super-armor on his start-up frames. And you shouldn't be able to grab someone out of super-armor either, it hurts the potential of super-armor terribly. And if his start-up frames are completely hidden, similar to how they are now, his super-armor could be very useful in punishing characters with post-lag.
rubiksfriend
Smash Apprentice
Nintendo must have realized there is a competitive scene and what a failure Bowser is. Ike seems like a Bowser right now: doomed to fail, unless you are Gimpyfish.
vato_break
Smash Master
is ike slow or is he just laggy?
Stealth309
Smash Apprentice
Just slow. Gimpyfish says that Ike has very little lag, even from aerial attacks.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I dunno, I'm bumping a somewhat old thread I admit, but this thread sums up so much I was thinking about Ike I just have to say I agree.
Another thing is, Ragnell is by no means a fire-based sword, yet Sakurai seems to be turning it into an ultra-heavy Sealed Sword as we can see by the special move Eruption. The other thing is how they could have at LEAST given Ike a projectile since Ragnell technically can shoot magical beams. Ragnell doesn't slow down Ike at all anyway, because Attack speed in FE9 is determined by strength, so really why make him so freaking slow?
To be honest, if this Ike was Hector, I'd be incredibly happy. In fact, as we call no-flinch frames super armor, wouldn't it make a TON more sense that someone like HECTOR who actually has armor have a bunch of no-flinch frames, and be slow moving and have tons of disjointed hitboxes of raw power? But noooooo, they chose Ike for it. =(
I play a bunch of Nintendo series, and by far, I am shocked by how much Ike has been completely misrepresented in everything except his appearance. Yes, it's disappointing that Ike appears very unbalanced, but why did he not only have to be unbalanced, but be nothing like he was in FE9?
I'm not saying he won't be fun to play though. My guess is he'll probably be incredibly valuable in SSE due to massive killing strength. And at least his voice is manly. =P
By the way, it's not like Marth and Roy were represented all that well, but at least it's not like someone completely disregarded their attributes and threw them out the window in exchange for new ones that make no sense. Although Roy didn't get a ranged attack...but eh, SSBM came before FE6 so that's excusable. FE6 and FE1 don't have particularly well-developed lords to my knowledge anyway, so there's more leeway for them. However Ike is actually developed, so it's really sad when I see it not taken into account.