So what were they thinking?

[True Fool]

If you guys have played PoR, you know that Ike is strong, fast, good skill, and good defence. Sounds like it should be a balanced character, right? Now why did they just drop speed off of him entirely? Ragnell didn't weigh him down one bit in the game either.

Honestly, Ike is a crappier version of what I was hoping the new Ganondorf would be. A slow, strong sword user, instead of all the fast/crappy ones.

 

[Okysho]

so that he wouldn't be a Marth/ Roy clone? I don't mean to drag either of them into this, but I think Sakurai is probably going to want more than one Fire Emblem rep in the game hence wanting to differentiate the speeds of the characters so they're not all the same...

 

[Kashakunaki]

Yeah, let's just make everyone as powerful as their respective franchises make them.

Oops, Mewtwo wins by blowing everyone up with his mind.

It's about concept, man. He has a relatively small frame and wields a two handed sword with one hand. Character development, much?

 

[True Fool]

Ike is not slow though. He's a freaking fast character. And don't pull that stupid Mewtwo crap, we all know you can't make a character who can just throw people from the other side of the stage.

It just doesn't make sense. If anything he should be a semi-light weight character, HP was his only semi-bad stat. It comes too close to making him not even look like Ike, the speed he moves at. He could have been Melee Link speed, Roy power(with better hitboxes), it would have made at least a little sense.

 

[Fizz-sama]

Thread isn't valid. I can see your point, but if that were the case, Marth was totally ****ed up to hell. They might as well had Sigurd instead. Marth, as great as he is, introduced the sucky leader syndrome in FE.

 

[True Fool]

Well, yes, I will agree that gameplay stats don't matter. But they just pulled slowness out of nowhere. Ike is simply supposed to be a skilled swordsman, there's absolutely nothing that hints at him being earth-shatteringly strong, or slow as molasses.

At least in his game Marth is meant to be some what strong(IIRC). But I do apologize for trying to use gameplay stats as reasoning for in-game stats. I do stand by my other points though.

 

[RWB]

Technically, Ike's wt is 9. Ragnell weighs 20.

Yeah, He's sure to be crazy speedy with a sword that weighs more than double as much as he does(not to mention, 2/3 of a friggin Wyvern). That's if we go statwise.

I think this was a good decision...

 

[GenG]

Is right that Ike's qualities in the games don't explain his slowness in Brawl, but rather to reforce one of his glaring strenghts. At first sight, without going into stats, Ike is different from other lords because is rudeness and unstylish swordmanship, and the slow and powerful moves come from there. His stubborness is pictured in the non flinching frames.

All characters in Smash Bros focus in one of their inherent qualities for balance. If Ike were like in PoR or RD, he would be broken.

 

[bksands77]

i completely agree

i was so disappointed when i found out he was a heavyweight

 

[Pluvia's other account]

We knew he was heavyweight when Sakurai showed us his moves. He even said he was heavyweight.

 

[jwj442]

People who have played the Japanese version of FE10 (Radiant Dawn, not out in the US yet) say that he's a lot slower in that game.

 

[Kirby knight]

People who have played the Japanese version of FE10 (Radiant Dawn, not out in the US yet) say that he's a lot slower in that game.

Yes, but anyone with eyes can tell Sakurai is using FE9 Ike not FE10...Also if he was using FE10 I don't think he moves would be as laggy as this current incarnation as he looks a hell of a lot stronger in Radiant Dawn.

-Knight

 

[Razed]

To all those *****ing about how Ike is different in brawl than he is in FE: you are clearly ********. Let's take... hmm... maybe any character in melee, but we'll pick Link as an obvious example here. This is what you guys sound like:

'omg link is only supposed to lose 1 heart and reappear on the stage when he falls off, not a full stock! he usually has like 12 hearts before he gets knocked out! And he can jump? wtf is that? link can only jump when u run at an edge! and when that happens, he gets hurt when he lands off a high jump! and what's more, he can't use his spin attack in the air! and infinite bombs? omg...
Link was really poorly designed, what were they thinking?'

 

[_Doorman_]

To all those *****ing about how Ike is different in brawl than he is in FE: you are clearly ********. Let's take... hmm... maybe any character in melee, but we'll pick Link as an obvious example here. This is what you guys sound like:

'omg link is only supposed to lose 1 heart and reappear on the stage when he falls off, not a full stock! he usually has like 12 hearts before he gets knocked out! And he can jump? wtf is that? link can only jump when u run at an edge! and when that happens, he gets hurt when he lands off a high jump! and what's more, he can't use his spin attack in the air! and infinite bombs? omg...
Link was really poorly designed, what were they thinking?'

I completely agree here. I like the fact that Ike is slow, but powerful. Everyone complaining seems to be letting their inner fanboy get the best of them. I for one, am glad he is slow, that way he's not a f*&king Marth clone.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Technically, Ike's wt is 9. Ragnell weighs 20.

Yeah, He's sure to be crazy speedy with a sword that weighs more than double as much as he does(not to mention, 2/3 of a friggin Wyvern). That's if we go statwise.

I think this was a good decision...

Good discussion indeed, lol.

Ike is not slow though. He's a freaking fast character. And don't pull that stupid Mewtwo crap, we all know you can't make a character who can just throw people from the other side of the stage.

It just doesn't make sense. If anything he should be a semi-light weight character, HP was his only semi-bad stat. It comes too close to making him not even look like Ike, the speed he moves at. He could have been Melee Link speed, Roy power(with better hitboxes), it would have made at least a little sense.

Failure. Alright, when you make a highly established fighting character franchise, come back and talk. Otherwise, stop while you're behind.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, we finaly have a heavyweight swordsman!

I think its good that Sakurai destroys the idea that swordsmen are always fast and quick as soon as possible. Sure, Link wasn't the fastest in Melee or 64, but neither could he really do that much damage.

Sad that I semi-mained him really...

 

[metaknightp0wns]

I dont want him to be like a falco, who is heavy fast semistrong and has massive hops, but still i would have liked some speed on ike sigh u cant have everything u want in life....

 

[Dragonbreath]

I suppose Sakurai thinks Ike's using an eastern-european Zweihander (Twohanded) sword style. Of course, the guys who used those generally went into battle with half a ton of body armor.

BTW, I noticed in one of the videos that Ike's entrance seems to be the Black Knight's warp powder from PoR.

 

[True Fool]

You degenerate flamers keep talking to me like I'm f*ucking brain-dead. I know all that crap you're spitting at me, this garbage still doesn't make sense. By his attacking animations, by his actions in cutscenes, where in the world is there any indication at all of Ike being slow? When using Ragnell, when using the Regal Sword, ANYTHING, he does not move slow.

How does Ike's fat-assery make any more sense than if Zelda was the fastest in the game, or if DK was the lowest jumper?

 

[FrozenRoy]

Random thought: Could Ike, in fact, not be a heavyweight? In DeDeDe's page, they mention Donkey Kong and Bowser as heavyweights, but not Ike.

Just a random thought that pinged in my head that seemed to fit the arguement.

 

[True Fool]

Random thought: Could Ike, in fact, not be a heavyweight? In DeDeDe's page, they mention Donkey Kong and Bowser as heavyweights, but not Ike.

Just a random thought that pinged in my head that seemed to fit the arguement.

I don't think I follow what you say. You've seen the videos, and heard from the people at E for all, right? He's cripplingly slow, his kills come from lurking in FFA to catch someone who's just been hit, or to smack someone after they hit someone else.

Unless you mean that he's been changed since E for all?

 

[FrozenRoy]

I don't think I follow what you say. You've seen the videos, and heard from the people at E for all, right? He's cripplingly slow, his kills come from lurking in FFA to catch someone who's just been hit, or to smack someone after they hit someone else.

Unless you mean that he's been changed since E for all?

Yeah, the change. I'm actually thinking they did the demo for user-feedback, which is also why they moved it back: They know it will take time for them to make the changes.
EDIT: Also, DeDeDe's update cam after E for all, odd, eh?

 

[GenG]

Actually, can Ike move SLOW and attack SLOW without being a HEAVYWEIGHT, because his weight can be over average (like Link and Samus).

 

[True Fool]

To me, an ideal Ike would be like this; Speed, falling speed and range would be around Melee Link, power like Roy's(sweet-spotted Roy), jumping height/speed like Ganondorf or Bowser(give him something kinda bad to balance him out), and weight like Samus.

It'd be fair, and it'd make sense. I think Ike being how he is now is a bad idea, because this most likely gives us two very similar characters. Ike and Ganondorf, they'd both be slow and powerful sword users.

 

[GenG]

We don't know if Ganondorf will be a full fledged swordman in Brawl. He could mix sorcery with martial arts, and leaving the sword (which we also don't know if it will be one or two handed, if he has one) for a few attacks.

 

[True Fool]

We don't know if Ganondorf will be a full fledged swordman in Brawl. He could mix sorcery with martial arts, and leaving the sword (which we also don't know if it will be one or two handed, if he has one) for a few attacks.

Well, that's why I said most likely. Link isn't a full-blown swordsman, but he's still a sword character, and he still plays in fashion to other sword characters.

I expect Ganondorf to be a sword character, and I expect him to have at least one magic attack, some kicking/elbowing maybe. Either way though, it still makes two sword characters who would be very similar. Especially considering that Ike is a little similar to the idea of Ganondorf with a sword. He has his fire as a projectile(still different from Gdorf's though), and he kicks in his neutral A combo.

But either way, I need to go for now, I'd be happy to continue this discussion tommorow.

 

[Hydde]

You degenerate flamers keep talking to me like I'm f*ucking brain-dead. I know all that crap you're spitting at me, this garbage still doesn't make sense. By his attacking animations, by his actions in cutscenes, where in the world is there any indication at all of Ike being slow? When using Ragnell, when using the Regal Sword, ANYTHING, he does not move slow.

How does Ike's fat-assery make any more sense than if Zelda was the fastest in the game, or if DK was the lowest jumper?

But you dont get the point..... it seems that sakurai wanted to give Ike oriinal properties. The way Ike moves in FE is almost the same thing as everylord does. Is like another Marth.

Its clear that Sakurai wanted to have a heavy swordman. The point is not if he was fast in FE.... the point is taht in this game in other words, BRAWL, he was very much likely like marth.... so...have to guys with almost the same physics would be a waste of a spot.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

ikes start up lag is what really kills him...

 

[True Fool]

But you dont get the point..... it seems that sakurai wanted to give Ike oriinal properties. The way Ike moves in FE is almost the same thing as everylord does. Is like another Marth.

Its clear that Sakurai wanted to have a heavy swordman. The point is not if he was fast in FE.... the point is taht in this game in other words, BRAWL, he was very much likely like marth.... so...have to guys with almost the same physics would be a waste of a spot.

But why Ike? I would think that it would make more sense to change Marth. Marth got a shield later in the game, why not let him use it? And Marth's Melee style doesn't even fit him correctly, Marth is a stabber, not a slasher.

Sure, you can't have a swordsman without some slashing moves, but why couldn't they give him a stab for a fsmash, or a ftilt? Was it for the sake of having a ready moveset for Sigurd to use as well?

I may just be nitpicking, but to someone like me who's played all of these games, it's strangely annoying.

 

[GenG]

But why Ike? I would think that it would make more sense to change Marth. Marth got a shield later in the game, why not let him use it? And Marth's Melee style doesn't even fit him correctly, Marth is a stabber, not a slasher.

Sure, you can't have a swordsman without some slashing moves, but why couldn't they give him a stab for a fsmash, or a ftilt? Was it for the sake of having a ready moveset for Sigurd to use as well?

I may just be nitpicking, but to someone like me who's played all of these games, it's strangely annoying.

Wrong, wrong. Actually most people think Marth is a stabber because they don't play all the game. When Marth obtains the Falchion, he becomes a slasher. Think about Roy, Eliwood... but without the promotion. Marth doesn't promote, but is the only one capable of wielding the Falchion.

 

[Kashakunaki]

You degenerate flamers keep talking to me like I'm f*ucking brain-dead. I know all that crap you're spitting at me, this garbage still doesn't make sense. By his attacking animations, by his actions in cutscenes, where in the world is there any indication at all of Ike being slow? When using Ragnell, when using the Regal Sword, ANYTHING, he does not move slow.

How does Ike's fat-assery make any more sense than if Zelda was the fastest in the game, or if DK was the lowest jumper?

It's funny you should talk along those lines, the lines of logic, because it is due to that very idea that Ike is slow! A *clears throat for Monty Python impression* a 180 pound man cannot carry with one hand a 25 pound sword!

But seriously, he is approximently, what, 6 feet 2 inches tall and probably weighs around 180 pounds, for the sake of arguement, and yet he wields a two handed sword with one hand that probably comes in around somewhere at 25-30 pounds?

LOGICALLY a man would not be able to move with grace and agility with that kind of ratio. I don't give a rats *** how fast he was in Path of Radiance, it's character development, it's concept, it's reasoning, it's sacrafice, it's logical.

I'm not saying don't be upset, by all means go ahead, I'm just pointing out it wasn't a stupid decision.

 

[Windlord]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but honestly since when has Smash Bros followed the rules of logic?

he is how he is, and they made him that way for a reason, I'm sure after awhile people will egt used to his speed, and perfect his attacks, and he'll balance out.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This thread reminds me of a thread in the Melee Mewtwo speficic board somewhere in 2005.

Anyways, I agree with most people here that think Ike should've been a more fast character. If anything, he should be a bit more like Roy, except a bit stronger and less speed and there you'd already have a whole different character as Marth, seeing as Ike's moves are mostly all unique (at least unique from Marth).

Ike's stats in FE9 where totally different from his Brawl incaration. In PoR, Ike's Strenght caps at 26 while his Skill caps at 27 and his Speed is maxed at 28. His Speed also has 5% more growth rate, so there's no way that Ike'll be stronger than he's fast in PoR. Hell, there are even reports of people complaining about Ike's medicore Strenght when he's unpromoted and even I admit I most of the times use the Energy Drop (raises Str+2) for Ike.

FE10 isn't out yet, and probably will not be for a while for me cause I live in Europe. But yeah, I've heard he's somewhat slower in that game but that still doesn't mean that he wouldn't be able to keep up with Bowser, which I here hear people complain about.

But anyways, Ike in Brawl seems to be REAL strong and REAL slow, which at first doesn't quite seems like the Ike in Fire Emblem but in a cutscene from Fire Emblem 10 he's able to sweep away lost of soldiers with one swipe of Ragnell with almost no effort at all. Also, in FE9 you really never had to worry about Ike surviving if you would just impulsive send him into a group of enemy soldiers after promotion. Ike is also one of the stronger Lords in the Fire Emblem universe, and is often said to have a very unique but bland sword play style in FE9 by enemy characters.

So I think Sakurai went this route with Ike being the Rambo of Smash who could easly survive in wars (Free For All battles) but his swordmanship is a little too reckless for one vs. one fights. Also note that most mayor enemies/ rivals of Ike would also be translated as slow but powerful characters like the Black Knight and King Ashnard, so in Smash the player would assume that Ike won from them in their respective game by outspeeding them but still have the tremendous strenght to take them out in the first place, like Link (who seems to have avarage speed mostly in the LoZ games) being slow wouldn't make sence in the first place but after seeing his main nemenis Ganondorf being even (somewhat) slower it works out a lot better.

So having a slow Ike in Brawl still works in someway, but I personally would use that style for Ganondorf and giving Ike a bit more balanced stats but hey; I'm not making the game.

 

[Saph66]

Ike was not using Ragnell in that video, its some normal triangular blade. You can see it clearly after he slashes the soldiers. lol

 

[scotchtape622]

I don't really care too much. I just want to see and idle Ike to see his sword stance

 

[Lgndknight]

argh! we get a decent sword user who is a heavy and you complain? You don't HAVE to use him

 

[Diddy Kong]

But most of us WANTED to use him, mainly cause of how he works in Fire Emblem. =/

 

[Aninymouse]

Ever go to a Fire Emblem forum and see what they think of Ike in general? You may be surprised that most Fire Emblem fans who have played at least all the English games (if not more) do not care for Ike's broken status in Path of Radiance. Besides the first chapter that Rhys isn't with you with all the pirates, it's a cinche to fight every enemy on the map from start to finish JUST using Ike. He has great stats. The broken aspect of him comes out after promotion, though, in the form of Aether. Ragnell, though not broken by itself, when added to what Ike already is makes him unstoppable. Every time I've beaten PoR I killed the lastboss in one or sometimes two attacks from just Ike.

Within his own game, he is nigh-unstoppable after the first few chapters.

His power in Brawl mirrors this.

Keep in mind, Ike's running speed is actually pretty close to average. It'sthe lag on his moves that makes him "slow." He runs realistically, and all things considered SWINGS that huge two-handed sword fairly realistically, too. Ike isn't supposed to be a Super Hero, he's just supposed to be a mercenary (who's way too idealistic and stoic, but that's another story).

 

[Hong]

It's the fact that Ike is nothing like the original that I refuse to play as him. Even if they don't want to overhaul his character entirely, a few small details would make him more appealing. You know, make Aether into actual Aether and not complete garbage. I don't mean I desire the health stealing effect, just something that's remotely similar to the original. The flying momentum, the cool blue glow, the sounds, the second attack, everything. I also prefer the Ike in the cinematics much, much more than the Ike used for Brawl.

 

[RWB]

Ever go to a Fire Emblem forum and see what they think of Ike in general? You may be surprised that most Fire Emblem fans who have played at least all the English games (if not more) do not care for Ike's broken status in Path of Radiance. Besides the first chapter that Rhys isn't with you with all the pirates, it's a cinche to fight every enemy on the map from start to finish JUST using Ike. He has great stats. The broken aspect of him comes out after promotion, though, in the form of Aether. Ragnell, though not broken by itself, when added to what Ike already is makes him unstoppable. Every time I've beaten PoR I killed the lastboss in one or sometimes two attacks from just Ike.

Within his own game, he is nigh-unstoppable after the first few chapters.

His power in Brawl mirrors this.

I'll just mention that this goes for all the starter characters in PoR. All the other starters are higher up on the tier list, because they are just mad. Hello Madwoman(Titania), Powerhouse special edition(Boyd), and Defensive dodge maniac(Oscar). >_>

Oh, and Ike is in no way broken(Aether makes him broken? a move that doesn't activate more than like... 15% of the time), just really good(which is why he is high tier). Hector was far more so, and he really wasn't broken, anyway.

This is coming from an Ike fan, mind you.

Keep in mind, Ike's running speed is actually pretty close to average. It'sthe lag on his moves that makes him "slow." He runs realistically, and all things considered SWINGS that huge two-handed sword fairly realistically, too. Ike isn't supposed to be a Super Hero, he's just supposed to be a mercenary (who's way too idealistic and stoic, but that's another story).

Indeed.