So what were they thinking?

[GenG]

It's the fact that Ike is nothing like the original that I refuse to play as him. Even if they don't want to overhaul his character entirely, a few small details would make him more appealing. You know, make Aether into actual Aether and not complete garbage. I don't mean I desire the health stealing effect, just something that's remotely similar to the original. The flying momentum, the cool blue glow, the sounds, the second attack, everything. I also prefer the Ike in the cinematics much, much more than the Ike used for Brawl.

Glad you are not a MOTHER fanboy. Ness and Lucas using moves that aren't theirs? Die Sakurai etc etc

Ike in Brawl has many traits from the original. Not all of them, because it would've been broken. Smash Bros. has its own laws, for those Ike was rebuild to make him fit a certain and exclusive spot in the roster.

 

[Hong]

Glad you are not a MOTHER fanboy. Ness and Lucas using moves that aren't theirs? Die Sakurai etc etc

Actually, I am a MOTHER fan girl. Though Ness doesn't bother me for two reasons.
1) He only has the moves he does because Lucas was supposed to have them. So they just used an "A wizard did it" excuse, claiming Paula taught him.
2) Ness actually reminds me of an actual character from the series. Funky graphics, psychic abilities, yet he still maintains the neutral image of an average boy.

I've been a MOTHER fan since the debut of EarthBound in America, but I've only loved what Sakurai has done. He really had no other choice.

Ike in Brawl has many traits from the original. Not all of them, because it would've been broken. Smash Bros. has its own laws, for those Ike was rebuild to make him fit a certain and exclusive spot in the roster

I know that. If they made Samus anything like she was in her games, she'd not only have infinite jumps but every jump would have her immune to all attacks and kill anyone except Ridley on contact. I realize, since nearly everyone of these characters have super God mode powers and amazing potential towards the end of their game, that they need to be fit into Brawl. Ike, however, was poorly done. It makes me wonder how much Sakurai even cared for Path of Radiance. I wish they made him as fast as he was graphically (not stat-wise), since that's not in any way game breaking. Something like his forward B is a good example of how such can be applied correctly.

Ike is one of the coolest characters on the roster and a nice character concept, just not enough like the original for me to have any interest, since I like playing characters based on who they are, how well they were captured and my experiences with their series. Because everything we've seen so far is just like how King Dedede was like in his original games, I wish to play as him. But since Ike doesn't remind of the original at all besides his appearance, I was really lying to myself by having any interest.

 

[GenG]

Fangirl, ok. That's good to know.

Actually Fire Emblem are one of the harder (if not the hardest) franchises to implement:

1) Unlike most mascots, FE chars are RPG characters. In RPG, you have a weak character becoming a god near the end of the game, with not only physical changes but stats changes. Most mascots are anachronic: Mario, Kirby, Link, Pikachu, Dedede, Bowser, Ice Climbers... are characters that don't change drastically, they are always the same since they are not only Nintendo but videogame classics, so it's very easy to pick moves for them. That doesn't apply to FE characters. FE characters go through many stages during the games, so that's a problem when picking a character, "should we go with young Ike, general Ike, vangard Ike?". Each one have different traits.

2) FE is a ****ing pain to draw moves from. It isn't a fighting game although fighting is part of the game, and the characters have around 2 moves, 4 if they promote. Marth didn't have any move from the games. Ike has 2 moves because they are recognizable from the games and actually viable for Smash.

3) Smash characters aren't canon. Brawl Zelda isn't TP Zelda. Brawl Mario isn't Galaxy Mario. They mix moves and looks from many games, even with redesigns. Is Ike from Path of Radiance? If he is from Path of Radiance... could you know from which part of the game is Ike? It could be level 5 Ike with Ragnell and that would explain why he is so slow. Or not. Smash characters are anachronical. Sakurai looks for available characters and works a certain role in the roster for them.

4) Since characters can't be copy-pasted from their games, that's a problem. I think Metroid fans were deceived when they saw how slow was Samus in SSB64, and how fast she was in Super Metroid. She couldn't aim diagonal, she couldn't space jump forever, she even keeps shooting the grapple beam from the arn cannon which is contradictory with the games, and uses flames which she never used. But even then, that character in that fighting game felt like Samus, but in a whole different enviroment.
Actually Ike in Brawl present many traits from the original. He was strong and bold, both physical and mentally (with powerful moves). He also was persistent, single minded, always fought back (super armor frames). His style was barbaric and unpolished (Æther, powerful moves that leave him wide open), and that stood even more than the stats. He wields a heck of a blade, which is very heavy (the games state it weights 20, almost the double of Ike's weight), so it's natural, realistic, at least in the "neutral" and unbiased space of Smash Bros., to move like a normal human with a ****ity heavy sword. The first thing you see about Ike is that he is no normal lord, and that was one of the reason for why he is so popular. Even more than being "fast", but rather a mixture of bold personality, great development and efficient battle-wise. At least, for me.
Sakurai doesn't look the stat caps and the grow rates. That's irrelevant to Smash Bros. Ike's qualities are obvious at first glance.

But I guess everybody is entitled to their opinion. Ike doesn't need blue glows and sounds to be awesome, that would be even annoying.

 

[Hong]

Fangirl, ok. That's good to know.

Actually Fire Emblem are one of the harder (if not the hardest) franchises to implement:

1) Unlike most mascots, FE chars are RPG characters. In RPG, you have a weak character becoming a god near the end of the game, with not only physical changes but stats changes. Most mascots are anachronic: Mario, Kirby, Link, Pikachu, Dedede, Bowser, Ice Climbers... are characters that don't change drastically, they are always the same since they are not only Nintendo but videogame classics, so it's very easy to pick moves for them. That doesn't apply to FE characters. FE characters go through many stages during the games, so that's a problem when picking a character, "should we go with young Ike, general Ike, vangard Ike?". Each one have different traits.

2) FE is a ****ing pain to draw moves from. It isn't a fighting game although fighting is part of the game, and the characters have around 2 moves, 4 if they promote. Marth didn't have any move from the games. Ike has 2 moves because they are recognizable from the games and actually viable for Smash.

3) Smash characters aren't canon. Brawl Zelda isn't TP Zelda. Brawl Mario isn't Galaxy Mario. They mix moves and looks from many games, even with redesigns. Is Ike from Path of Radiance? If he is from Path of Radiance... could you know from which part of the game is Ike? It could be level 5 Ike with Ragnell and that would explain why he is so slow. Or not. Smash characters are anachronical. Sakurai looks for available characters and works a certain role in the roster for them.

Huh? It's really not that hard. I can make a unique and balanced, yet original moveset for any Fire Emblem character in a heartbeat (See my Black Knight one if you wish). Now, if you want to be so literal; The fact that they stated Ike has "magnificent strength" would have to mean they are referring to a higher level Ike for at the start of the game, his strength being high enough to wield Ragnell. (Which was wielded with one hand and much smaller.) It's actually much easier to make a moveset for a character with a weapon then a character without, despite what people think.
I also stated they should make Ike's speed based on his motions and not his stats for a reason, so we don't need this whole silly "he has x amount of strength at this part of the game he should be stronger blah blah blah". I mean yeah, Ike's role is very important to Smash. Though there are other popular returning characters or popular requests who could have done the same to allow Ike to be more like his original. I mean, they have never ever had to resort to using every single motion a character has used in their history. That'd be just stupid. Even the basic Mario only has like, six attacks (compressing the combo) resembling his actions in other games.

4) Since characters can't be copy-pasted from their games, that's a problem. I think Metroid fans were deceived when they saw how slow was Samus in SSB64, and how fast she was in Super Metroid. She couldn't aim diagonal, she couldn't space jump forever, she even keeps shooting the grapple beam from the arn cannon which is contradictory with the games, and uses flames which she never used. But even then, that character in that fighting game felt like Samus, but in a whole different enviroment.

But they keep the key traits of the character. Samus is a projectile expert. Link uses a variety of equipment to win. Mario is a good jumper. Sonic is really fast. Bowser is really strong but slow. Ect ect. Ike was a very well balanced, very tough lord very closely resembling the Mercenary class of old. Ike isn't very well rounded and his key move doesn't remind me of the original at all.

Actually Ike in Brawl present many traits from the original. He was strong and bold, both physical and mentally (with powerful moves).

And much faster then he was strong. I mean, can one compare Ike's attack power to someone like Boyd?

He also was persistent, single minded, always fought back (super armor frames). His style was barbaric and unpolished (Æther, powerful moves that leave him wide open), and that stood even more than the stats.

This much is true. Though Ike also had a lot of skill in the way he did things. This is proven how he does flips and such after land criticals. They missed the other half.

He wields a heck of a blade, which is very heavy (the games state it weights 20, almost the double of Ike's weight), so it's natural, realistic, at least in the "neutral" and unbiased space of Smash Bros., to move like a normal human with a ****ity heavy sword.

The wt of a unit and the wt of a character has the same term, but is not in relevant scale. In the art of Ragnell, it's much bigger then it actually was. The extra handle is just kind of there to be there. It's a one handed sword used rather effortlessly.

The first thing you see about Ike is that he is no normal lord, and that was one of the reason for why he is so popular. Even more than being "fast", but rather a mixture of bold personality, great development and efficient battle-wise. At least, for me
Sakurai doesn't look the stat caps and the grow rates. That's irrelevant to Smash Bros. Ike's qualities are obvious at first glance.

Once again, I never ever once said stat growth was the factor. Just that something like Ike's Brawl incarnation is nothing like he was in the cinematics, the gameplay movement or anything. Since they state he has "magnificent strength" (same thing in the translation), he would have little hindrence wielding Ragnell even in its larger form. Kind of funny how they say his strength is so amazing, yet he doesn't look very built.

I also found it kind of unfair how you use statistical comparisons from time to time, and then go to say they aren't using statistical comparisons in the actual game (which they shouldn't). None of my reasoning has ever been about that until you brought it into light.

But I guess everybody is entitled to their opinion. Ike doesn't need blue glows and sounds to be awesome, that would be even annoying.

Really? I can refer to many fans who leave battle animations on just for the sake of seeing Aether. It's a really cool looking move in the original that I can watch no matter how many times I play it. I mean, not like it's any more annoying then how Roy screams when he does Blazer.

To each their own anyhoo.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Anyway you look at it, Ike being slower than Bowser makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[GenG]

Huh? It's really not that hard. I can make a unique and balanced, yet original moveset for any Fire Emblem character in a heartbeat (See my Black Knight one if you wish). Now, if you want to be so literal; The fact that they stated Ike has "magnificent strength" would have to mean they are referring to a higher level Ike for at the start of the game, his strength being high enough to wield Ragnell. (Which was wielded with one hand and much smaller.) It's actually much easier to make a moveset for a character with a weapon then a character without, despite what people think.

Yes, you can make a moveset for the BK. Anybody can make a moveset for the BK because he is so brutal, heavy and menacing. But what about those characters with less inherent qualities like Sigurd? Could you make a consistent moveset for him without being repetitive and adding original features to him? Without deviating too much from the character? Swords imply range, and range implies balance. Making moves for unarmed characters is easier because they are restricted to their own body: Kicks, punches, flip kicks, knees and so on. Swords are complex and delicate, even more when a character only uses swords.

A thing about fan movesets is that they only create individual moves, not movesets. Moves are meant to interact together, in combos for example. Don't know if your BK moveset has this though, I saw it months ago.

But they keep the key traits of the character. Samus is a projectile expert. Link uses a variety of equipment to win. Mario is a good jumper. Sonic is really fast. Bowser is really strong but slow. Ect ect. Ike was a very well balanced, very tough lord very closely resembling the Mercenary class of old. Ike isn't very well rounded and his key move doesn't remind me of the original at all.

Ike was balanced in PoR, and Mewtwo is one of the fastest Pokémon, and Rest doesn't do damage in games... Ike was balanced in PoR, but in Brawl sports many of his most known qualities: Being able to wipe out entiere armies even in Hard mode, through the Smash-translator, means he is strong and resistant, with a brute sword style and bold personality. They didn't want to make a character that could've mistaken with any other swordmen in the game, and they sticked with their most features or the ones that made him stand in a different scale than the rest of lords. All lords are fast when they promote. Even Hector looks fast in his animations. So Hector should be fast in Smash? I don't think so. Only a few lords can be like Ike. I think you are not looking at the whole picture and all the implications.

Aether doesn't look like the one in PoR? You must be joking. It's the same exact thing except the "blue glow omg" which isn't part of the move anyway (is more like a pre Aether taunt) and the second hit which would make the move even more complex. I didn't believe Aether was possible to translate to Smash and I'm happy with the result. It's Smash Aether.

Once again, I never ever once said stat growth was the factor. Just that something like Ike's Brawl incarnation is nothing like he was in the cinematics, the gameplay movement or anything. Since they state he has "magnificent strength" (same thing in the translation), he would have little hindrence wielding Ragnell even in its larger form. Kind of funny how they say his strength is so amazing, yet he doesn't look very built.

A lot of Smash characters are practically build from scratch and many of them weren't true to the cinematics of the games (Marth didn't have any moves to start with, Falcon never was seen out of the car, and Zelda kicking in midair since when?) but rather to their personalities and roles in their games after being "translated" into Smash Bros. Is a very complicated issue, to create a moveset for a character and making it believable.

Really? I can refer to many fans who leave battle animations on just for the sake of seeing Aether. It's a really cool looking move in the original that I can watch no matter how many times I play it. I mean, not like it's any more annoying then how Roy screams when he does Blazer.

Aether is a cool move, but I was talking about the glow. The blue glow and its sound aren't even part of the move. They aren't necessary to make Aether.

Plus, Ike's Final Smash is way better that Aether could ever be...

I've been thinking about Aether being a variation of the mercenary critical hit in the GBA games.

Scary thought...

 

[GreenKirby]

They were thinking Arby's

 

[True Fool]

So really, no one thinks it's stupid to have Ike as the slow swordsman when we're going to get TP Ganondorf (he has a sword)? Ganondorf with a sword will be faster than Ike. Unless they want to make Ganondorf on his own tier below Ike's little individual bottom-tier he has going there.

I don't mind him being kind of slow, that's okay, but when all of his ground attacks have a startup equal, or WORSE, than Melee Bowser's Fsmash, there's a huge problem. He can be slow I guess, but then we have two slow sword users, unless they want Ganondorf to follow his TP stats, godly fast, can leap gigantic heights, and have strong, fast attacks.

 

[RWB]

Well, Ganondorf being faster than Ike makes sence.
Ganondorf is taller->(Likely)Better running speed.
Ganondorf is more muscular->Carries his blade easier.
Ike having a blade that's more than twice as heavy as Ganondorfs(likely)->More power than Ganondorfs close combat.

In actual medieval combat, Size was always an advantage.... unless they shoot at you.

And why does everyone think Ganondorf has to have a sword? Sakurai could just as well ignore that and make Ganondorf spellbased.

 

[Lgndknight]

making Ganondorf spellbased would probably cause some extreme fans to egg his house. They were planning on giving Ganon a sword in Melee, but they had crunch time and couldn't do it. now they have a few glorious months to do some stuff, or they can push the release date back more if they have a hard time with the sword.

 

[A.J!]

well, first of all. having ike being slower than ganondorf, makes no sense. ike is pretty fast, at least not slow. ganondorf is heavier, and stronger. ike should be more of a balanced character i think.

i allso think sakurai should keep in mind the attack animations from the fire emblem when he designs FE characters. only two animations ike has bouth in ssbb, and in FE POR is aether, and his critical strike.

 

[RWB]

well, first of all. having ike being slower than ganondorf, makes no sense. ike is pretty fast, at least not slow. ganondorf is heavier, and stronger. ike should be more of a balanced character i think.

i allso think sakurai should keep in mind the attack animations from the fire emblem when he designs FE characters. only two animations ike has bouth in ssbb, and in FE POR is aether, and his critical strike.

Well, Ganondorf being faster than Ike makes sence.
Ganondorf is taller->(Likely)Better running speed.
Ganondorf is more muscular->Carries his blade easier.
Ike having a blade that's more than twice as heavy as Ganondorfs(likely)->More power than Ganondorfs close combat.


Ganondorf if we follow TP, is speedier than Ike(Ikes animations aren't all that fast).

 

[Cyberbot5000]

They could keep ganondorfs A attacks to fists and swords and B attacks to spells

 

[Windlord]

Ganondorfs show move extremely slow with fast slashes. in the final battle of TP he just kinda strolls around until you get close or attack him then he's like "instant parry!" and then a quick slash. that would make him about even with Ike if Ike is at least faster in movement speed, and ganon is a bit fast in movve speed I think they would turn out in the same "Tier"

 

[Alondite]

Yeah, let's just make everyone as powerful as their respective franchises make them.

Oops, Mewtwo wins by blowing everyone up with his mind.

It's about concept, man. He has a relatively small frame and wields a two handed sword with one hand. Character development, much?

His frame is fairly small yes, he's probably only 5'9 or so, an no more than 150 lbs (in PoR anyway....RD Ike is likely closer to 200 lbs), but he is strong enough to wield Ragnell, which using other FE weapons as comparison (Armads in this case), has got to be at least a few hundred lbs. Remember when Hector dropped Armads off his shoulder and it smashed into the ground? Yeah, it's heavy, and Ragnell is heavier. Also, Ragnell is NOT a 2 handed sword. I don't know where you people are getting that from. Sakurai said it was, he was wrong. Now my RD translation might be a bit off, but if memory serves me correct, Ragnell and Alondite were forged by the Goddess for Altina to be wielded at the SAME TIME. ONE in each hand. They were forged to be 1-handed swords, and they are. Anyone who wields them uses 1 hand, so that whole "big heavy 2-handed sword slowing him down" is complete BS. Ike is fast, and SSBB should reflect that. His style is awkward and powerful, but not slow.

 

[Chaosblade77]

I have to disagree with the people using the in game stats for Ike's speed. Sure, I have not done a lot of research on how fast Ike is in Brawl (although I am definitely interested now), but he certainly should not be classed as "Extremely Slow, Extremely Powerful" because that totally destroys anything that relates to the Ike in FE, other than looks. That said, this is mostly based off what I have read on this thread and my FEoR experience.

I agree with the person who said that Ike's movement in game as far as animations go is what should have been used. No, he wasn't extremely fast like Fox would be in both running or attack speed. However, from the looks of how Ike (not promoted, mind you) attacks in game, his biggest weakness is going to be his post attack lag, not pre-attack lag. Another weakness would probably be his dodging, it would fit his awkward style.

I can also see Ike with poor recovery. That does fit him, and I have no complaints about that. I do think he should have been slightly weaker and have delays after the attacks, not prior to them. It would make him a much more viable character than the "very slow, very powerful swordsman" pin that has been attached. In my opinion, that does not fit him at all.

 

[BigRick]

There's nothing wrong with the power swordsman type of character, it's actually a pretty good concept, and a smart way to keep a FE swordsman without screwing up the ridiculously good hitboxes.

However, Sakurai is too dumb to understand that if you put plenty of start up to every move a character has, he will never land a hit.

 

[RWB]

Also, Ragnell is NOT a 2 handed sword. I don't know where you people are getting that from. Sakurai said it was, he was wrong.

Length... longer than Altina so likely over 150 cm... Long, even for a Two-handed sword. (The general length is between 120(!)-130 cm...)
Weight... Heavier than armads... Far heavier than any sword in existence.
And it has a longer hilt than a Two-handed sword.

Nope, not a two-handed sword.
Nevermind that the general two-handed sword is both shorter, far lighter, and... has a shorter hilt than Ragnell.

 

[Pyr0]

3 Handed swords =P

 

[Jackal478]

Ike seems too fit in very well.

I mean. Just because Mario always beats Bowser in the games doesn't mean Mario should be invincible to Bowser. -.-

 

[Sentenal]

I consider myself fairly knowledgable about FE, and I really think they got Ike all wrong. Ike is indeed one of the fastest characters in game. But, Ike should NOT be strong. For half the **** game in FE9, Ike's offense sucks balls. Mediocre at best strength, combined with being locked into swords. Ike has pissed me off in hard mode, at least until he promotes, that I almost started to hate him. Ike should have been a fast character, who doesn't have powerful attacks. Its like, they made Ike the reverse of what he should have been.

And he should be made different than Marth. But making him slow as balls isn't the only way to do that. For one, Ike would actually have a ranged attack thanks to the Ragnell, while Marth doesn't in Melee. And his fighting style is pretty different than Marth's melee style as well, so they could have drawn some moves from that area as well.

Yeah, endgame, with 20/20 stats, Ike has good stats in everything. Of course they aren't going to model him after that. That would be broken. But, they could at least model him as to how he plays in the game; fast, but ****ty power. He would be usable that way.

Oh yeah, build=/=weight, in FE. Ragnell does not weigh twice as much as Ike >_>

 

[True Fool]

Just on the topic of how heavy the sword itself is, have you seen the cinematic scenes in which Ragnell and Alondite are involved? BK tosses Ragnell, and the thing barely makes a thud. And I see BK swing the Alondite against Greil very fast, as well as him and Ike moving fast during their fight in the intro.

The swords are heavy, but apparently not heavy enough to slow either of them down, or even make a loud noise, or a deeper cut, when they land in a piece of wood.

In-game statistics, story-line statistics, either way, the logic in Ike's Brawl stats are flawed.

 

[Sentenal]

More on the topic of how much the sword weighs, omg, Ike apparently is only twice as heavy as a Daggar. Must be some beastly daggers they use. And a simple throwing axe? wow, those are heavier than Ike too?


And @people who say "It makes sense for someone using a two-handed sword to be slower." Yeah, and it also makes sense for someone to die after getting hit with a missile. Or sliced down the middle by a sword. So, if we are all about logic, shouldn't Ike OHKO people, because if you get slashed with a sword, logically, you're gonna die. Or at least have some body part cut off. O wait, Smash brothers isn't like that! My bad.

 

[True Fool]

I'm glad someone's on my side finally.

 

[Kirby knight]

More on the topic of how much the sword weighs, omg, Ike apparently is only twice as heavy as a Daggar. Must be some beastly daggers they use. And a simple throwing axe? wow, those are heavier than Ike too?


And @people who say "It makes sense for someone using a two-handed sword to be slower." Yeah, and it also makes sense for someone to die after getting hit with a missile. Or sliced down the middle by a sword. So, if we are all about logic, shouldn't Ike OHKO people, because if you get slashed with a sword, logically, you're gonna die. Or at least have some body part cut off. O wait, Smash brothers isn't like that! My bad.

I really don't see the point your trying to make, Unless of course your saying SSB shares nothing in common with real life physics at all. It's obvious it does though it's not exactly canon.

-Knight

 

[A.J!]

I really don't see the point your trying to make, Unless of course your saying SSB shares nothing in common with real life physics at all. It's obvious it does though it's not exactly canon.

-Knight

if the sword doesn't slow him down in the FE game, it shouldn't do so in brawl eihter. yea the sword is heavy but it doesn't seem to affect him in the FE game, so then it shouldn't affect him in brawl either.
brawl isn't "real life physics"

 

[Kirby knight]

if the sword doesn't slow him down in the FE game, it shouldn't do so in brawl eihter. yea the sword is heavy but it doesn't seem to affect him in the FE game, so then it shouldn't affect him in brawl either.
brawl isn't "real life physics"

If they used the exact Ike from PoR he would be broken, period. Characters in Super Smash Brothers are not exactly canon to their respective franchise. Sakurai tries to incorporate as much of a character as he can, but it's obvious some things are going to be left out and those characteristics that do make it will be modified to fit SSB accordingly.

Seriously All Sakurai had to do was see Ragnell's WT to Ike's Build (His physical size) and it's obvious something had to be done to balance it. I agree that Sakurai went overboard with the lag he put on Ike, but don't you dare tell me that "if it's in his game it should be in smash the same exact way"

I mean Kirby has infinite flight in most of his game, so by your notion Kirby should have infinite flight in brawl because he had it in his game.

Also if you could read what I said, I said it's not exactly canon, meaning Brawl's physics are not exact with real world physics. ._.

-Knight

 

[Elec Man EXE]

I agree that it had something to do with the fact that the guy is using a 2 handed sword thats very heavy. It just makes sense. Regardless of what the FE games tell us, about characters wielding heavy weapons with no penalty. Brawl =/= FE. And while not "real life physics", Brawl does have some realism to it. Thus, huge 2 handed sword = slow to wield. And Ike himself isn't slow. His running speed is comparable to other characters, I do believe. Plus he's got that speed dash attack to boot. Its just the attacks that are slower. And that makes sense. You try swinging around a heavy sword. His strength lets him run and jump fairly unhindered, though. You could even say thats partly based on FE. Its not like they made him slow at everything.

But I also think that general game balance may have had a part, too. I mean, do we really need another fast swordsman? We've already got Meta Knight to fill the "crazy speed" category, Marth (really, he's not getting cut) to fill the faster role, and Link to fill the middle of the road role. Pit could fit into the fast category too, depending on whether you consider daggers in the sword category. I think they consider that when making characters as well. Why make a character similar to another, when he has the opportunity to be more unique.

Whether or not they went overboard and made him too slow, I think making him a slow powerhouse swordsman was a good choice, and well thought out, not just "Hey, why don't we make him slow, that'll be fun".

 

[Poisoncomic2]

I know that Ike is slow (startup lag) and powerful in Brawl. I know that most people fear that would render him useless. But has any one mentioned if he has that resistance armor in most of his moves? I mean, that would offset his slow startup for attacks, allowing him to actually punish his opponents if anyone was foolish enough to attack him while he was attacking (attacking him before his attack=/= interrupting his attack). Anyone?

 

[Elec Man EXE]

I know that Ike is slow (startup lag) and powerful in Brawl. I know that most people fear that would render him useless. But has any one mentioned if he has that resistance armor in most of his moves? I mean, that would offset his slow startup for attacks, allowing him to actually punish his opponents if anyone was foolish enough to attack him while he was attacking (attacking him before his attack=/= interrupting his attack). Anyone?

Thats true, but I believe the point thats been made is that anyone who is knowledgable about the game will know to not even try. Rather, they'll just avoid and punish after the attack. Or roll behind you and grab you. Sure, you'll punish them if they're idiots and try to attack you. But who of the "good" players is going to be foolish enough to do so?

 

[Alondite]

Length... longer than Altina so likely over 150 cm... Long, even for a Two-handed sword. (The general length is between 120(!)-130 cm...)
Weight... Heavier than armads... Far heavier than any sword in existence.
And it has a longer hilt than a Two-handed sword.

Nope, not a two-handed sword.
Nevermind that the general two-handed sword is both shorter, far lighter, and... has a shorter hilt than Ragnell.

Technically, Ike's wt is 9. Ragnell weighs 20.

Yeah, He's sure to be crazy speedy with a sword that weighs more than double as much as he does(not to mention, 2/3 of a friggin Wyvern). That's if we go statwise.

I think this was a good decision...

The size of the sword means absolutely nothing in the Fire Emblem universe. The blade was FORGED TO BE USED ONE-HANDED, therefore, it's a one-handed sword. The long hilt is for decorative purposes, which is obvious if you look at it. Also, yes, Ike Wt is 9, and Ragnell's is 20......but his average Str is what...25-26? Yeah, that means that he's more than strong enough to weild Ragnell like it's a plastic butter knife. Attack speed = Speed - (str - weapon wt) only if weapon wt is higher than str. Ike's str is higher than Ragnell's wt, therefore is attack speed = his spd stat. He's not a slow character.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I was broken hearted to hear he is a terrible character, he looks sooo cool.

 

[RWB]

"The size of the sword means absolutely nothing in the Fire Emblem universe. The blade was FORGED TO BE USED ONE-HANDED, therefore, it's a one-handed sword. The long hilt is for decorative purposes, which is obvious if you look at it."

And longswords are counted as two-handed weapons even though they are generally supposed to be wielded in one handed. Katanas are also two-handed weapons, yet Lyndis wields it in one hand.

And the point isn't that Ragnell IS a two-handed sword. It's that it is as big as one, and heavier. Therefore it's alike to a two-handed sword, and that's what matters.

 

[GreenKirby]

I was broken hearted to hear he is a terrible character, he looks sooo cool.

Cause clearly everybody who played as him said he was. >_>

 

[Sentenal]

If they used the exact Ike from PoR he would be broken, period. Characters in Super Smash Brothers are not exactly canon to their respective franchise. Sakurai tries to incorporate as much of a character as he can, but it's obvious some things are going to be left out and those characteristics that do make it will be modified to fit SSB accordingly.

You guys aren't listening. I'm not saying make Ike how he plays at 20/20, endgame, fully supported. I'm saying model his character like how he plays in the game. Ike looks like he does in FE9, and thats it. He won't play a **** thing like him, other than using a sword called the same thing he used in his game. They completely changed every characteristic about Ike, gameplay wise. He has gone from one of the fastest/weakest in his game, to the slowest/strongest in this. WTF. Please, explain.

Seriously All Sakurai had to do was see Ragnell's WT to Ike's Build (His physical size) and it's obvious something had to be done to balance it. I agree that Sakurai went overboard with the lag he put on Ike, but don't you dare tell me that "if it's in his game it should be in smash the same exact way"

Build has nothing to do with a weapon's weight. They are two completely different stats.

I mean Kirby has infinite flight in most of his game, so by your notion Kirby should have infinite flight in brawl because he had it in his game.

No, by my logic, Kirby should have alot of jumps in this. Making a character exactly like how they are in Brawl is broken. But they at least modeled Kirby right. He floats/jumps alot, and sucks people up. They completely got Ike backwards.

I agree that it had something to do with the fact that the guy is using a 2 handed sword thats very heavy. It just makes sense. Regardless of what the FE games tell us, about characters wielding heavy weapons with no penalty. Brawl =/= FE. And while not "real life physics", Brawl does have some realism to it. Thus, huge 2 handed sword = slow to wield. And Ike himself isn't slow. His running speed is comparable to other characters, I do believe. Plus he's got that speed dash attack to boot. Its just the attacks that are slower. And that makes sense. You try swinging around a heavy sword. His strength lets him run and jump fairly unhindered, though. You could even say thats partly based on FE. Its not like they made him slow at everything.

The weight system in Fire Emblem 6 is different from 9, but did you know that the Sword of Seals is roughly the same size (well, it is bigger)/weight as Ragnell? So why is Roy about to swing it around so much faster in Melee than Ike is in Brawl?

But I also think that general game balance may have had a part, too. I mean, do we really need another fast swordsman? We've already got Meta Knight to fill the "crazy speed" category, Marth (really, he's not getting cut) to fill the faster role, and Link to fill the middle of the road role. Pit could fit into the fast category too, depending on whether you consider daggers in the sword category. I think they consider that when making characters as well. Why make a character similar to another, when he has the opportunity to be more unique.

MetaKnight is completey different from the other swordsmen. You got Marth, who if he plays like he does in melee, is a quick and has long reach. Not Ikeish. Link chunks bombs and boomaranges around. Not Ikeish. They could easily model Ike so he is quick, but keep him unique to Marth and Link.

 

[Kirby knight]

You guys aren't listening. I'm not saying make Ike how he plays at 20/20, endgame, fully supported. I'm saying model his character like how he plays in the game. Ike looks like he does in FE9, and thats it. He won't play a **** thing like him, other than using a sword called the same thing he used in his game. They completely changed every characteristic about Ike, gameplay wise. He has gone from one of the fastest/weakest in his game, to the slowest/strongest in this. WTF. Please, explain.

To prevent him from being to similar to Marth, perhaps? Ask Sakurai.I'm honestly not happy overall with the choices Sakurai had made with Ike, as such I most likely won't play as him at much.

Build has nothing to do with a weapon's weight. They are two completely different stats.

Obviously, however Ike can't just wield a big *** sword like it does in PoR with no repercussions.

-Knight

 

[Chaosblade77]

To prevent him from being to similar to Marth, perhaps? Ask Sakurai.I'm honestly not happy overall with the choices Sakurai had made with Ike, as such I most likely won't play as him at much.

He could have less pre-attack lag and still differ from Marth. Their styles have nothing in common. I agree with Ike being somewhat slow, not due to his FE speed, but because of his "poor" swordsmanship as he progresses through the game. However, giving such lag before his attacks renders him useless.

I would rather his speed be in the Marth-Link range with other faults, since his attacks are going to be different anyway. That over having him basically unplayable.

Obviously, however Ike can't just wield a big *** sword like it does in PoR with no repercussions.

-Knight

There were repercussions but by the time Ike gets Ragnell he has the speed to use it well. Speed and Skill are two of his best stats, not strength. You have Ragnell for what, two chapters? Ike will be near maxed at the very least if you use him (and he is definitely worth using, so he should be) at that point. My Ike usually maxes Skill, speed, defense, and hitpoints, strength is not rare, and even resistance once. Anyway I disagree that those stats/growths should specifically affect how Ike plays in Brawl, however, they should have some effect.

If he is going to be Ike, he should resemble Ike with more than looks.

---

My ideal Ike would probably play about Roy speed. His strength wouldn't change much, but he would have more post-attack lag (instead of preattack) than Roy does.

The logic there is that if he is that strong, getting the big swing isn't the hard part, it's the after affects of the swing: keeping control after it if it is so heavy, then getting ready for your next attack.

He would also have the ranged attack, which wouldn't be as powerful as it was in PoR, but it would still be there. Side-B in my opinion. Probably something like Falco's blaster, I would give it some small knockback and low damage.

His recovery wouldn't be great, he would probably be bad from below at edge grabbing, sort of like Capitan Falcon's up-B in Melee. I just think that would be a natural weak point for Ike.

 

[RWB]

The weight system in Fire Emblem 6 is different from 9, but did you know that the Sword of Seals is roughly the same size (well, it is bigger)/weight as Ragnell? So why is Roy about to swing it around so much faster in Melee than Ike is in Brawl?

Actually, weapon weights are just the same in FE6. However, Sword of Seals is a 8 in wt, compared to 20 of Ragnell.

And no, Ragnell is MUCH bigger than SoS, even in ingame animations. Perhaps Durandal of FE7 would be a better comparance.... As Ragnell is that length?

 

[Diddy Kong]

No Ragnell isn't all that big. Seriously, it's even smaller than the Iron Blade in PoR, and most likely even lighter too.

I personally don't mind Ike having some lag in his moves, as it fits his reckless side but being so laggy that he's even slower than BOWSER is going too far. Besides, Ike wasn't that strong in Fire Emblem... >_>

 

[GenG]

No Ragnell isn't all that big. Seriously, it's even smaller than the Iron Blade in PoR, and most likely even lighter too.

I personally don't mind Ike having some lag in his moves, as it fits his reckless side but being so laggy that he's even slower than BOWSER is going too far. Besides, Ike wasn't that strong in Fire Emblem... >_>

Ragnell's blade is dense. Very heavy no matter the size.