So what were they thinking?

[Faustus]

To all those *****ing about how Ike is different in brawl than he is in FE: you are clearly ********. Let's take... hmm... maybe any character in melee, but we'll pick Link as an obvious example here. This is what you guys sound like:

'omg link is only supposed to lose 1 heart and reappear on the stage when he falls off, not a full stock! he usually has like 12 hearts before he gets knocked out! And he can jump? wtf is that? link can only jump when u run at an edge! and when that happens, he gets hurt when he lands off a high jump! and what's more, he can't use his spin attack in the air! and infinite bombs? omg...
Link was really poorly designed, what were they thinking?'

so, it's not just me, and you're an ******* to everyone in general -.- well, that makes me feel better.

now, I don't know if it's been mentioned or not already, but Ike has extremely strong moves, almost all of them (according to gimpyfish) kill moves. Obviously they had to balance that out somehow, so they made him very slow. simple as that.

 

[Cless]

But there is such a thing as doing something to excess. Ike is too extreme in both his strength and his lack of speed. A character's moves shouldn't take so long to come out that they are so easily punished after a dodge or block.

 

[Faustus]

I would argue with you on that, but after seeing bowser in melee, i can't help but agree.

 

[ikelegend93]

IKE FTW!!
i cant wait to use him and win against all my friends

 

[Hong]

The Ike in Brawl is more like the Radiant Dawn Ike wearing the same clothing he was in Path of Radiance. He is very similar to his Radiant Dawn self, unlike his Path of Radiance appearance. He became much stronger and more barbaric in Radiant Dawn, which is much closer to what we see in Brawl. When I try to imagine it that way, it's a lot easier. However, he is still too far on each extreme but at least it's not as far off.

 

[ikelegend93]

no duh you are so right

 

[ZaeYeL]

With all this feedback, I'd bet nintendo is hearing all about the complaints. Really I am pretty sure that Ike will be changed to atleast a bit of a speed increase. I wouldn't worry, I mean really. If he really is kept slow on the final release then, guess what; he'd probably be given the ability to splash out some combos for major damage hitting. Remember this is a demo and theres like, what a couple months til' release because of the delay. Anyway,
I personally hope they do boost his speed up to about what link (maybe a little slower) is at. Then it'l make him a more likeable character in the terms that he isn't on the **** verge of being impossible to control.

 

[True Fool]

One of the other things that concerns me, possibly more than him being bottom-tier is, what if he's broken? What if super-armor is changed to where you can't be grabbed out, and one of his attacks has super-armor on the startup frames, he'd be just near impossible to kill, especially if that Usmash gets startup super-armor.

 

[RoxasXIII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9bqdOH3js0

Ike's Final Smash begins at 2:33. Enjoy.

 

[ZaeYeL]

One of the other things that concerns me, possibly more than him being bottom-tier is, what if he's broken? What if super-armor is changed to where you can't be grabbed out, and one of his attacks has super-armor on the startup frames, he'd be just near impossible to kill, especially if that Usmash gets startup super-armor.

Yeah, if your considering he's "broken" then might as well have a factor in for the demo is that maybe Ike wasn't suppose to be like he was, (slow)>

 

[True Fool]

Yeah, if your considering he's "broken" then might as well have a factor in for the demo is that maybe Ike wasn't suppose to be like he was, (slow)>

I...can't tell what you're trying to say to me. I'm saying he failed at the demo, and it might be possible that super-armor is switched around on him to make him broken in the actual game.

Personally though, it almost looks like Ike is accidentally slow. His hidden start-up lag seems like a mistake, I would think that a slow character is supposed to look slow. And his jump as well, I mean, what the hell is up with that? Of course I don't necesarily think his speed was an accident, I just think it looks that way right now.

 

[Althalus89]

The reason I think they made Ike so slow is that he compared to other main characters in FE games isn't a Lord from royalty but actually a hardened mercenary that's leading a company of many skilled fighters.
He's got strong will and rudeness unlike toehrs(exept for Hector) so naturally he's needed to show that alot compared to Marth & Roy whom both come from royal families and use rapier's while Ike does use two-handed swords in one hand(look at the weight and lenght of Ragnell ffs).
(btw WTF is up with Roy being so strong? He's the son of the second weakest lord I know, Eliwood...)
FInally sry bout the cursewords but I think they show my feelings a bit more

 

[Iceman12]

I...can't tell what you're trying to say to me. I'm saying he failed at the demo, and it might be possible that super-armor is switched around on him to make him broken in the actual game.

Personally though, it almost looks like Ike is accidentally slow. His hidden start-up lag seems like a mistake, I would think that a slow character is supposed to look slow. And his jump as well, I mean, what the hell is up with that? Of course I don't necesarily think his speed was an accident, I just think it looks that way right now.

You're probably right, but Sakurai and his team probably noticed it at some point after the demo. If he just gets it removed on a couple of his ground moves or aerials, I think he'll be golden. But, they would probably tone down his power for a couple quick start up moves.

 

[Tom-Sawyer]

Ike is not slow though. He's a freaking fast character. And don't pull that stupid Mewtwo crap, we all know you can't make a character who can just throw people from the other side of the stage.

It just doesn't make sense. If anything he should be a semi-light weight character, HP was his only semi-bad stat. It comes too close to making him not even look like Ike, the speed he moves at. He could have been Melee Link speed, Roy power(with better hitboxes), it would have made at least a little sense.

Well, shouldn't Mario die in two hits? they aren't going to make move sets best entirely on their role in the game.

Where did peach's move set come from?
They create each one to be unique and fun. Maybe Marth has yet to be announced.

 

[Alondite]

^^You know in FE10 they made Ike much slower and stronger? His average speed barely saves him from getting doubled by the average enemy. Did you know that Ike is supposed to be a heavy character in SSBB. Most heavy characters aren't exactly speed demons. Why should Smash show how Ike played in FE9 if even his own sequel doesn't remotely depict how he played in FE9? Ike was never reffered to as a fast swordsman in the FE9 story. He wasn't exactly reffered to as slow, but his style was "rough around the edges."

Um.....actaully Ike is still quite fast in RD. His spd growth is fairly low, but his bases are good, and it's not impossible for him to cap spd in either class, ESPECIALLY with bexp. The simple fact is, they screwed Ike up. There's no beating around it, they screwed him up, badly. If SSBB Ike were a FE character, in RD say, his stats may be something like.....

Str: 50
Ski: well.....considering his low speed makes his attacks hard to land with....let's just say 15
Spd: 10 tops...look how slow he is. Average people in FE have stats of 0 or 1....and he looks far slower than the average person. Saying 10 spd is even giving him a lot.
Def: ....well, I've heard he's faily heavy....30-35 maybe?

the other stats don't matter...but when you look at what his stats REALLY are...there seems to be some conflict. When bringing in a character, they should at least ATTEMPT to make his/her abilities reflect what they actaully are. They did that pretty well with everyone else (save a few).

 

[Iceman12]

FE not equal to Brawl, take that into consideration as well. I'm sure Ike will be fine. I'm going to end up using him in whichever form he comes. With proper amounts of training, any character can become decent, at least in my eyes, so I'm taking that approach with Ike. I've always loved power characters, and I think Ike will suit my style nicely.

 

[Noxin]

Yeah, let's just make everyone as powerful as their respective franchises make them.

Oops, Mewtwo wins by blowing everyone up with his mind.

It's about concept, man. He has a relatively small frame and wields a two handed sword with one hand. Character development, much?

i actually did lol when i read th first part of this

 

[Alondite]

FE not equal to Brawl, take that into consideration as well. I'm sure Ike will be fine. I'm going to end up using him in whichever form he comes. With proper amounts of training, any character can become decent, at least in my eyes, so I'm taking that approach with Ike. I've always loved power characters, and I think Ike will suit my style nicely.

I know that, and that wasn't the purpose of what I was saying. I was saying that a character in SSBB should be somewhat similar to how they are in their games. Ike was always fairly fast with decent power in PoR (this is the PoR Ike after all...) You can have a fast character with good power, and still have it balanced. There are ways to do it, such as say, having lag on the end of his attacks rather than before?

 

[GenG]

I know that, and that wasn't the purpose of what I was saying. I was saying that a character in SSBB should be somewhat similar to how they are in their games. Ike was always fairly fast with decent power in PoR (this is the PoR Ike after all...) You can have a fast character with good power, and still have it balanced. There are ways to do it, such as say, having lag on the end of his attacks rather than before?

This is no PoR Ike. This Ike has the PoR suit (and maybe his PoR build), but it's not Ike from any specific game. It's the same for the rest of Smash characters.

 

[Alondite]

This is no PoR Ike. This Ike has the PoR suit (and maybe his PoR build), but it's not Ike from any specific game. It's the same for the rest of Smash characters.

That's a completely ridiculous thing to say. Of course it's Ike from PoR. Where else would he have come from? Link is TP Link, Mario is the same Mario that's in every one of his games, same goes for Sonic. Ike is taken from Fire Emblem, stop trying to make excuses for Sakurai and just admit that he screwed Ike up.

 

[GenG]

That's a completely ridiculous thing to say. Of course it's Ike from PoR. Where else would he have come from? Link is TP Link, Mario is the same Mario that's in every one of his games, same goes for Sonic. Ike is taken from Fire Emblem, stop trying to make excuses for Sakurai and just admit that he screwed Ike up.

Link has a TP design and Melee moves, Mario is not from any Mario game in particular and Sonic is a mixture of his new design with old traits. Smash characters aren't drawn from any game in particular. Smash Ike can has his PoR design (and he wears the ranger suit in the RD epilogue) and RD stats.

Stop being emo just because Sakurai doesn't give a **** about stats and caps. Please.

 

[SlayerOfEvil]

Why do people keep *****ing and complaining about Ike? GD, he's a power character, and he is the way that the Smash team had him in mind. Don't like him? SHUT UP AND DON'T USE HIM PEOPLE. I swear there's an Ike complainer everywhere I go on these forums.

God.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

If we kept evereyones speed/strength the same as it was in their games....

If we got cloud in. he'd be top tier. Super fast. super sword reach and super strong.

Same goes for Ike. except hes Confirmed.

 

[Iceman12]

Why do people keep *****ing and complaining about Ike? GD, he's a power character, and he is the way that the Smash team had him in mind. Don't like him? SHUT UP AND DON'T USE HIM PEOPLE. I swear there's an Ike complainer everywhere I go on these forums.

God.

Lots of people don't like Ike from what Gimpyfish said in his thread, but I think he's just a bada$s, and its a quick fix according to someone in another thread on the Ike boards, is just to remove some key frames from most of his attacks. Although, I'll definately main him anyway he comes, I've got a couple buddies who are okay at 1 on 1 who will help me train.

 

[Alondite]

Link has a TP design and Melee moves, Mario is not from any Mario game in particular and Sonic is a mixture of his new design with old traits. Smash characters aren't drawn from any game in particular. Smash Ike can has his PoR design (and he wears the ranger suit in the RD epilogue) and RD stats.

Stop being emo just because Sakurai doesn't give a **** about stats and caps. Please.

Stop being emo? Yeah ok, because I'm being emo because i'm upset that my by far most wanted character got completely screwed over? Mario is not from any game in particular? It's THE SAME MARIO IN EVERY GAME. Of course it's the same Mario. And don't give me crap about Ike's RD stats, beacause he's EVEN FASTER in RD than he is in PoR. He's by no means a power character. He's balanced, an just happens to be good in everything. What is the point of even taking characters from games if you are in no way going to design them around how they are in their own games? Saying "x character isn't frmo any particular game" is total bs. If Ike's not from PoR or RD where the hell is he from? He hasn't been in anything else.

 

[Iceman12]

So you won't use Ike because he got made into a power character and you don't like it? That really doesn't make a lot of sense. You can make Ike work if you really want to, imo.

 

[GenG]

Saying "x character isn't frmo any particular game" is total bs. If Ike's not from PoR or RD where the hell is he from? He hasn't been in anything else.

He is from Smash Bros. Based on his games obviously but with traits that don't set him in any game in particular. I think this is easy to see for everyone. Because Eruption is not a FE attack, and Aether is incomplete, and he has the ranger suit and Ragnell at the same time, but traits from RD in which his speed growth is noticeably smaller than strength. Ike is faster in RD as far as stats go, but he is easily doubled by many enemies, meaning he is not so fast. Also, he isn't that fast in the CG movies, possibly the most important source for defining his movement.

Mario neved had the FLUDD, the Fire Balls and the Cape in any game, with moves that he never displayed before. It's a new Mario.

Yes, Marth is faster than Ike in Smash Bros., even when Ike possibly doubles Marth's speed in his games. This is not Fire Emblem, it's Smash Bros. Samus runs akwardly in Smash Bros (the same Samus that could move at incredible speed), Mewtwo is one of the fastest Pokemon and I don't remember Ness being so slow at level 99 in MOTHER 2. You can't expect the exact rules for a certain game to be valid in a fighting crossover, as there is balance and the need to make the characters different from each other.

 

[fire_wulf]

Mario neved had the FLUDD

sorry to dissapoint you... FLUDD came from Super Mario Sunshine for the gamecube.... quite fun if you ask me.... you should probably try playing it... It will be really cheap if you buy it now.

 

[GenG]

sorry to dissapoint you... FLUDD came from Super Mario Sunshine for the gamecube.... quite fun if you ask me.... you should probably try playing it... It will be really cheap if you buy it now.

What I meant is that Mario never appeared in a single game with all of them: The FLUDD, the cape and the fire balls come from different games.

 

[fire_wulf]

What I meant is that Mario never appeared in a single game with all of them: The FLUDD, the cape and the fire balls come from different games.

Fair enough... by that i mean Ike's Fair... lol.. bad joke..

But in that case... you are completely correct... none of the moves appeared in the same game at the same time

 

[Alondite]

He is from Smash Bros. Based on his games obviously but with traits that don't set him in any game in particular. I think this is easy to see for everyone. Because Eruption is not a FE attack, and Aether is incomplete, and he has the ranger suit and Ragnell at the same time, but traits from RD in which his speed growth is noticeably smaller than strength. Ike is faster in RD as far as stats go, but he is easily doubled by many enemies, meaning he is not so fast. Also, he isn't that fast in the CG movies, possibly the most important source for defining his movement.

Mario neved had the FLUDD, the Fire Balls and the Cape in any game, with moves that he never displayed before. It's a new Mario.

Yes, Marth is faster than Ike in Smash Bros., even when Ike possibly doubles Marth's speed in his games. This is not Fire Emblem, it's Smash Bros. Samus runs akwardly in Smash Bros (the same Samus that could move at incredible speed), Mewtwo is one of the fastest Pokemon and I don't remember Ness being so slow at level 99 in MOTHER 2. You can't expect the exact rules for a certain game to be valid in a fighting crossover, as there is balance and the need to make the characters different from each other.

You are totally missing the point. The point is, Ike should not be a power character. There is no logical reasoning behind it. As for RD Ike being doubled....yeah that's total BS. I've beaten it on every difficulty and that never happens, even from enemy Laguz and Swordmasters. Oh and PoR Ike (which this is, obviously from his build) never fought in any cunscenes, but how about battle animations? Yeah...thought so. They used Ranger Ike because that's how he appears in all the official artwork, it's more recognizable. Yes I am aware that other characters are not the same as in thier games too. Samus is based off the SM Samus, who kinda did move awkwardly. I'm pretty sure if she was completely redone based on MP Samus, she would play considerably different. Mewtwo was just royally screwed up. What you seem to be missing is, putting a character into the smash universe does not totally change thier abilities. Sakurai changed ke just for the sake of making him different, because he wanted a slow, power swordsman.

 

[True Fool]

Logic, it's logic, it's lovely LOGIC! Low speed does not equal startup lag. Ike in RD (because that's what all you ****ers are throwing around) has lowish speed, high strength and skill. Oh, skill, what does that do again? Oh yeah, makes it EASIER to hit people. What does speed do? Oh yeah, make it easier to dodge and hit multiple times.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, something seems wrong, I wonder what it is? Oh yeah, according to Ike's "new" stats, he should have high power, little startup lag, bad post lag, sub-par movement speed, and decent defense. Hm, hey Ike, your lag is on backwards, teehee.

 

[Alphanova]

Ike should not be slow. period. If ragnell is weighing him down so much, how is it that he's able to easily throw it up in the air to catch it and slice someone with his aether? Although i will admit that it must weigh him down a bit, he always has his sword propped up on his shoulder.

I mean, take Link for example, he somehow carries: bombs, a bow, arrows, a boomarang a sword AND a his huge hylian shield all on him, yet he moves at medium speed. Ike carries nothing but a 2-handed sword he can wield in one hand and he's slow and suffers lag.

Ike shouldn't be slow, Link should be with his stats IMO. If neither of those works, well, hey, you could just include the black knight or ganondorf in the game, they're plenty slow.

 

[Earthbenderjump5]

To all those *****ing about how Ike is different in brawl than he is in FE: you are clearly ********. Let's take... hmm... maybe any character in melee, but we'll pick Link as an obvious example here. This is what you guys sound like:

'omg link is only supposed to lose 1 heart and reappear on the stage when he falls off, not a full stock! he usually has like 12 hearts before he gets knocked out! And he can jump? wtf is that? link can only jump when u run at an edge! and when that happens, he gets hurt when he lands off a high jump! and what's more, he can't use his spin attack in the air! and infinite bombs? omg...Link was really poorly designed, what were they thinking?'

i freaking love this.

if i had more then 500 characters to post, it would be in my sig.

 

[Zeta_Stryker]

Logic, it's logic, it's lovely LOGIC! Low speed does not equal startup lag. Ike in RD (because that's what all you ****ers are throwing around) has lowish speed, high strength and skill. Oh, skill, what does that do again? Oh yeah, makes it EASIER to hit people. What does speed do? Oh yeah, make it easier to dodge and hit multiple times.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, something seems wrong, I wonder what it is? Oh yeah, according to Ike's "new" stats, he should have high power, little startup lag, bad post lag, sub-par movement speed, and decent defense. Hm, hey Ike, your lag is on backwards, teehee.

He's not slow. He's just similar to Link.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

ike should at least have just a tad more speed and a little faster start-up lag...

IMO, if he doesn't have some speed or better start-up lag, might as well just place him on bottom tier where mewtwo is on melee.

plus, how can ike be slow if he can carry a enormous sword with no effort at all, and jumping so fast to catch his sword when doing aether?

 

[Dark Sonic]

I guess they were just trying to make Ike different from Marth.

I think they overdid it though.

 

[iron blade]

yea, the amount of startup lag ike has on almost all of his moves is ridiculous. the moves themselves are actually quite fast, but the startup lag really needs to change.

 

[W.Jr]

im wondering how good he is. I know he is strong

 

[True Fool]

In Radiant Dawn, since that's what you all are using as an excuse, Ike is slow. Ike has high strength, skill and defense. If you were making him play anything at all in Smash like he does in FE he would have little start-up lag, big post-lag, decent knockback (not this crazy sh*t he's got now), bad walking/jumping speed, and good weight (again, he wouldn't be crazy with a bunch of super armor sh*t).

If you want Path of Radiance Ike, it still doesn't match up. PoR Ike would be balanced, in just about everything, maybe even having crappyish knockback. They royally f*cked up this character. And don't even give me that "People in smash play different than they do in their games." Every character but Mewtwo seemed right on the money as far as stats go. There is not a single character who has been more distorted, and improperly represented as Ike, with the possible exception of Mewtwo.