So I need help

[Vlade]

So guys rather than asking in the Q&A thread or discussing it in the Bakery, I decided to just make a new thread.

As the title says, I need help. My main problem is the Ice Climbers matchup. I do alright against the resident ICs main here but I feel if I come up against a good ICs main I'm going to really struggle to do anything at all. My main strategy has been to TRY and get a percent lead then just camp platforms with falco's awesome vertical jump and when I have separated nana I just get her offstage and spike her, but it feels I need something more than that. For one, what is the safest way to separate them?

I was playing a resident Diddy main in tournament yesterday, and I won. But it was quite close and I don't think I was playing the matchup correctly. If I were to verse the best diddy in Australia right now I don't think I'd know what I'm doing. All I really know is reflecting bananas every now and then as well as gimping his barrel recovery with bair.

Please share your knowledge on these matchups guys, I know we have a matchup thread and we'll get round to discussing them but those are usually just summarising the pros and cons that each character has in the matchup, not discussing specific tactics and such.

 

[Teran]

Imo a truly safe separation tactic is nigh on impossible against ICs.

Playing against ICs is really a game of cat and mouse. The best separation tactic imo (although certainly not safe at all), is bthrow. Don't start trying to grab them though, or even thinking of going for this method, just think of it as an option if the opportunity somehow arises.

Iunno, I tend to just laser, platform camp, maybe a couple IAPs here and there. Cat and mouse, it's really just a case of punishing their mistakes imo.

 

[DEHF]

side b is really well in seperating the ICs, then use bair when they're in the air.

against diddy I would practice using his bananas it would help you out the match up a lot

 

[Teran]

Falco's glide toss is pretty hilarious imo.

 

[Vlade]

I've been using Jump Cancelled throws actually

Yeah the main thing I've been using to seperate the ice climbers is bthrow but it's just to risky to grab them because you have to be so close :S

I'll keep the IAP trick in mind. And how should I be using bananas anyway?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I liek how Vlade is like "Screw the Rules, I have mod power".

Even M2K couldn't do that.

Vlade2gud

 

[Teran]

Diddy's only good because of his stage control with bananas.

You don't need to pull off super banana combos, you just need to keep the bananas either in your possession, or really just shut them down.

Without bananas limiting your movements, Diddy really isn't that daunting of a character, especially when he can't dribble too.

 

[DEHF]

you can use it in different ways. one of the tricks I like to do is jump, drop a banana in front of him, then going over him and bair him into the banana with the same jump.

You can also glide toss f smash and other stuff.

 

[Vlade]

I'll keep those things in mind, I've probably been way too obvious with my banana usage actually

Teran are you suggesting to do what Falco does with ROB's gyro? Just laser + IAP for a long while?

 

[Teran]

You can do that, but unlike ROB's gyro Diddy's bananas are quite the usable offensive item. The only problem is though that you'll need full control over the banana because Diddy's dash attack is amazing at picking them up safely. Basically when you use them offensively, make it count.

You should definitely use them against him though, bananas set up for great manoeuvres like the glide toss > fsmash that DEHF pointed out.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

glide toss > fsmash is pretty telegraphed, I say glide toss > grab, but def dont be predictable with the glide toss cuz its easy to see coming.

 

[Denzi]

Glide toss is obviously better than JC throws, lots of extra distance. Also if you can get Banana control before you get a CG you end up with a lot of free damage. Jab destroys Diddy's CQC, and double jabs even more so because it removes the spotdodge option. And learn to DI Fsmash. (Apparently Fair hits through barrels and drags him down, but I personally have never liked it.)

Ic's are tough. Laser them out of their desynchs, don't telegraph side B, and just play more carefully than you would vs anyone else. BPG is a good way to seperate, and don't forget that you can 0%-death them with the right timing on dthrow.

 

[swordsaint]

pffft.

the icies matchup is ********, desynched ice blocks force falco in to the approach
the new ice shots cancel the lasers, and the ones already shot melt and go under lasers. falco can't camp icies
why the hell would you go above them as well? do you WANT to be uaired?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Arty has some good matches up vs lain iirc, especially the first shows a nice view on the MU :3

Diddy is just a pain imo, his ground game is amazing, and even then his aerials aren't bad, so he can hold his own in the air (cough fair)

 

[Arty]

IAP is soooo good in that matchup. It splits them apart so well, is very hard to punish, and gives you some space. IAP and camping is the reason that I feel that FD is the best neutral to go to against the IC. You have so much room to IAP and camp. Falco doesn't really need platforms against the IC b/c Up-air ***** Falco. Also when you see a grab opportunity don't be afraid to take it. Falco can do a good amount of damage, even a 0-death with his CG.

 

[Bloodcross]

Take out the Nannie, then don't take out Poopo. :D

IAP is amazing in this MU, I agree. Now just to clarify, does IC Utilt hit you out of Phantasm?

 

[Z'zgashi]

I've actually never played against a seasoned ic so I don't really no. I would say be defensive and take out nana asap, but u probably already do that lol