Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
oh guess so cause i dunno where it is xD i live pretty close to Dallas. is the top 5 brawl thread up to date with IC? as of right now i cant find any IC on the texas power rankings
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So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?
- Thread starter momochuu
- Start date
Sieguest
Smash Master
I wouldn't know, I don't keep track of the top5 thread.
iirc There are no IC players on the current Texas PR. (Hoping Smoom will change that soon)
iirc There are no IC players on the current Texas PR. (Hoping Smoom will change that soon)
kackamee
Smash Master
I thought Hylian was on it.
Sieguest
Smash Master
Hylian doesn't live in Texas anymore.
kackamee
Smash Master
Oh yeahh. MI
Sieguest
Smash Master
Fixed for accuracy.
Kind of sad though, I never got to meet him while he was still in Texas.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
yeah hes in misouri now. lame. never met or talked to him, but yeah he's a hoss IC
Roller
Smash Legend
Clearly, you have not seen season one of Heroes.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
i saw like 2 episodes of Heros
Sieguest
Smash Master
You have no evidence of this. :3
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
researcher. psh. noob ICs FTW! has Tink been discussed in the MU thread? i have a friend who plays as him and hes gotten a lill too cocky for his skill level.
EverAlert
Smash Master
Be prepared for ultimate gayness and have infinite patience, it's a campy matchup. Think about taking them to a static stage with platforms (eg battlefield), it will assist TL but in my experience these kinds of stages simplify the mu.
Anyway, at all times what you want to be doing is staying under him and keeping him confined to platforms. Watch his landings, if he doesn't have anything in his hands or is pulling a bomb on landing, uair him; if he has a bomb then wait for him to throw it away. Also, pay attention to when he zairs. Just don't get stressed out by taking small damage and keep paying attention to his bomb/zair habits. Don't expect to get grabs, ever. You'll also be killing with bair primarily.
If the TL is aggressive or the stage doesn't allow him to be super campy, you should focus instead primarily on his zair habits and less on his bomb habits, and pay attention to how he uses boomerang/arrows. As long as you are picky about his projectile habits then the rest should fall into place, we outrange all his melee moves easily. Just don't ignore that projectiles are coming at you or you will take a LOT of damage just approaching (it is surprisingly easy to just shrug it off and tell yourself it's small damage anyway).
This should help vs most TLs, if you're playing MJG though then just quit or choose a different character.
Anyway, at all times what you want to be doing is staying under him and keeping him confined to platforms. Watch his landings, if he doesn't have anything in his hands or is pulling a bomb on landing, uair him; if he has a bomb then wait for him to throw it away. Also, pay attention to when he zairs. Just don't get stressed out by taking small damage and keep paying attention to his bomb/zair habits. Don't expect to get grabs, ever. You'll also be killing with bair primarily.
If the TL is aggressive or the stage doesn't allow him to be super campy, you should focus instead primarily on his zair habits and less on his bomb habits, and pay attention to how he uses boomerang/arrows. As long as you are picky about his projectile habits then the rest should fall into place, we outrange all his melee moves easily. Just don't ignore that projectiles are coming at you or you will take a LOT of damage just approaching (it is surprisingly easy to just shrug it off and tell yourself it's small damage anyway).
This should help vs most TLs, if you're playing MJG though then just quit or choose a different character.
Sieguest
Smash Master
EA speaks truth.
Considering that you do everything right, I say the MU is about even.
Although the MJG:IC mu 100:0 MJG favor. Bro must have a truckload of experience vs. IC.
Considering that you do everything right, I say the MU is about even.
Although the MJG:IC mu 100:0 MJG favor. Bro must have a truckload of experience vs. IC.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
thanks! i usually just iceblock him to get rid of his ranged attacks and force him to approach. i hit a cpu TL with ice block and it made him drop his bomb...so that could be something on a rare ocasion? lol
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
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- 9,311
No, it is EASILY the best neutral we have in the matchup. You don't have to worry about horizontally zoned projectiles if you are using the center platform correctly. You don't have to worry about crossover bombs like you do on bfield and sville.
The only thing on that level you have to worry about is running into attacks and being dumb. On both sides.
Which is an improvement over the other levels where you have to worry about a whole crap ton of things.
The only thing on that level you have to worry about is running into attacks and being dumb. On both sides.
Which is an improvement over the other levels where you have to worry about a whole crap ton of things.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
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right, it lets you play the vertical game the best. You can use the platform to cut off the horizontal zoning. Which leaves ONLY the vertical game as an option.
Not only that, but there aren't gaps in platforms for a TL to throw bombs to cover a cross over. So you're able to chase much more safely.
Not only that, but there aren't gaps in platforms for a TL to throw bombs to cover a cross over. So you're able to chase much more safely.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
i do best against TL on FD
Me explaining why I like FD against TL is like describing why you like your favorite color.
And I agree with Cheese. Why don't you be sarcastic to Cheese while you're at it Lux?
Go win against a TL and then say your opinion is better.
And I agree with Cheese. Why don't you be sarcastic to Cheese while you're at it Lux?
Go win against a TL and then say your opinion is better.
kackamee
Smash Master
But BF is better then SV against TL. I say that with the utmost confidence.
Sieguest
Smash Master
Too much animosity in this thread. To throw in my own personal tidbit, I am a bit awkward playing on YI (I don't play on it nearly enough) and I'm much more comfortable with BF. As of right now I would personally take TLs to BF just because I know how to maneuver the stage better and not get hit by stuff.
Once I become more acquainted with the shenanigans on YI I may start using it more.
Once I become more acquainted with the shenanigans on YI I may start using it more.
ch33s3
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
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I get it all the time because they can't ban it against me or they get taken to Brinstar by my Feta Knight. SV makes it so they have to risk getting grabbed to land, ANYWHERE. BF they can take uair damage and go back to camping infinitely. YI you can at least PC sometimes, so I guess it's better than BF.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
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Some of us don't secondary that character
But seriously, we need to do a better job about sharing why we have some opinions about things.
For example:
There was a matchup between a high level snake and a high level IC being played.
The IC player had lost the previous match on SV because he had grabbed him like 6 times but couldn't CG snake to save his life. He had already won on BF, so CPing to there was out. Obviously FD was banned. When we were talking over what we should do for the matchup and the counterpick, we opted to take him to Delfino. We went there because all the IC's say it's a good counter pick level against Snake.
The reasoning was that we could out camp him by taking the higher levels and using stage control. We could also utilize the walkoffs to minimize the importance of 0-death infinites.
What we didn't know was that by going to Delfino, the moving platforms makes spiking an opponent MUCH safer because there is no stage to tech. If we had known that, given that he grabbed the snake 7 times, we should have won that match.
But we didn't know that because people just arbitrarily say certain levels are better than others without explaining reasoning why. So we lost.
It's no fun when we're losing, so let's win
But seriously, we need to do a better job about sharing why we have some opinions about things.
For example:
There was a matchup between a high level snake and a high level IC being played.
The IC player had lost the previous match on SV because he had grabbed him like 6 times but couldn't CG snake to save his life. He had already won on BF, so CPing to there was out. Obviously FD was banned. When we were talking over what we should do for the matchup and the counterpick, we opted to take him to Delfino. We went there because all the IC's say it's a good counter pick level against Snake.
The reasoning was that we could out camp him by taking the higher levels and using stage control. We could also utilize the walkoffs to minimize the importance of 0-death infinites.
What we didn't know was that by going to Delfino, the moving platforms makes spiking an opponent MUCH safer because there is no stage to tech. If we had known that, given that he grabbed the snake 7 times, we should have won that match.
But we didn't know that because people just arbitrarily say certain levels are better than others without explaining reasoning why. So we lost.
It's no fun when we're losing, so let's win
r3d d09
Smash Master
1. go with what you're comfortable with. not what people say is better for the match up
2. know what characters can do on that level. ex. TL on YI has a really weird kill when he's * i think* on the right side of the map, on a slant and he f tilts or d tilts. it just kills you. just an odd angle shenanigans.
3. practice on other maps to become more comfortable on them.
4. know if your opponent hates certain stages, take them there. You should be able to take them there because you've practiced enough to be comfortable with all legal stages
2. know what characters can do on that level. ex. TL on YI has a really weird kill when he's * i think* on the right side of the map, on a slant and he f tilts or d tilts. it just kills you. just an odd angle shenanigans.
3. practice on other maps to become more comfortable on them.
4. know if your opponent hates certain stages, take them there. You should be able to take them there because you've practiced enough to be comfortable with all legal stages
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
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Obviously the names were removed and the players were labeled as their characters to maintain a degree of anonymity
1. Is contradicted by 3&4. If it's the best, you're only putting yourself at a disadvantage by not being comfortable with it.
2. It's dsmash in either corner. Again, don't run into something stupid.
3. Agreed
4. Typically they hate certain stages because it swings matchups towards your favor.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Dont fight TL on bf with ics unless you wanna lose.
Youll get either sv or yi as the first match neutral.
Youll get either sv or yi as the first match neutral.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
why does TL win on bf?
I think BF is better than smashville against TL.
Well I dunno TL is hard on any stage really lol. When I played kingtoon in tournament at Pound we went battlefield first and he won 1 stock iirc and then I CP'ed FD(he banned brinstar I banned pokemon stadium) and 2 stocked him then he cp'ed lylat and I won by timeout.
For BF and Lylat there is a specific way you need to play it. You really really need to play super careful and get the first hit and it's way easier, it feels impossible if you don't have the % lead. If you manage to get it on BF then just stand under the platform that he's on. He'll jump and throw bombs down or z drop them and all you have to do is just walk around under the platforms and stay under him. He'll try to go to the other edge to shoot arrows at you and stuff, but just stay under the platform he is on and he can not hit you with projectiles. If he drops through the platforms you can grab pretty much every single one of his options just by shielding. Watch for when he uses his second jump and if he ever lands on the one of the bottom two platforms(which he will eventually, you can poke the top platform safely with uairs) do a SH nair and try for the IB reset to grab. If he's holding a bomb just wait. You can bait him to throw the bomb by just doing an empty sh and this is what creates the opportunity to get a grab.
The reason I think battlefield is better for ics is because on smashville when the platform is off to the side he's just going to throw **** at you and all you can only just sit there and try and avoid everything while he is at 0 risk. He can jump pretty much the entire duration of the platform passing over the stage and he moves too fast in the air to really safely catch him. You almost never get the chance to combo into grabs with nair like you do on BF. The only thing you can do is platform cancel which is good until they realize you know how to do it lol.
In general, you are going to want a secondary that you are VERY good with(like co main, the only reason I can use GW against TL is because I mained him for over a year, pocket characters won't work). Lain told me at pound he just MK against the top TL's now, and I don't blame him. You have to know the match-up inside and out to win, and even then it's a struggle on any stage except FD. I beat the highest placing TL at pound in tournament going IC's all 3 games, but I only won by 4% game 3 and I have played the match-up a ton. Unless you live by a really good TL I just wouldn't go IC's vs MJG,Jerm,KT,Jash..anyone else really feel free to use IC's but the top tl's as far as I know are good at the match-up.
Well I dunno TL is hard on any stage really lol. When I played kingtoon in tournament at Pound we went battlefield first and he won 1 stock iirc and then I CP'ed FD(he banned brinstar I banned pokemon stadium) and 2 stocked him then he cp'ed lylat and I won by timeout.
For BF and Lylat there is a specific way you need to play it. You really really need to play super careful and get the first hit and it's way easier, it feels impossible if you don't have the % lead. If you manage to get it on BF then just stand under the platform that he's on. He'll jump and throw bombs down or z drop them and all you have to do is just walk around under the platforms and stay under him. He'll try to go to the other edge to shoot arrows at you and stuff, but just stay under the platform he is on and he can not hit you with projectiles. If he drops through the platforms you can grab pretty much every single one of his options just by shielding. Watch for when he uses his second jump and if he ever lands on the one of the bottom two platforms(which he will eventually, you can poke the top platform safely with uairs) do a SH nair and try for the IB reset to grab. If he's holding a bomb just wait. You can bait him to throw the bomb by just doing an empty sh and this is what creates the opportunity to get a grab.
The reason I think battlefield is better for ics is because on smashville when the platform is off to the side he's just going to throw **** at you and all you can only just sit there and try and avoid everything while he is at 0 risk. He can jump pretty much the entire duration of the platform passing over the stage and he moves too fast in the air to really safely catch him. You almost never get the chance to combo into grabs with nair like you do on BF. The only thing you can do is platform cancel which is good until they realize you know how to do it lol.
In general, you are going to want a secondary that you are VERY good with(like co main, the only reason I can use GW against TL is because I mained him for over a year, pocket characters won't work). Lain told me at pound he just MK against the top TL's now, and I don't blame him. You have to know the match-up inside and out to win, and even then it's a struggle on any stage except FD. I beat the highest placing TL at pound in tournament going IC's all 3 games, but I only won by 4% game 3 and I have played the match-up a ton. Unless you live by a really good TL I just wouldn't go IC's vs MJG,Jerm,KT,Jash..anyone else really feel free to use IC's but the top tl's as far as I know are good at the match-up.