Why do people say this match up is in Diddy's favor? I simply do not know how to handle it, half the time I approach I get grabbed, I can't get kills until 200%, I get killed at 100%, and it is hard to play campy because of the waddle dees.
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So, Explain what to do against D3
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
Le_THieN
Smash Lord
I don't think Diddy has as steep of an advantage as I projected a few months ago (I think I even went as far as calling it 7 : 3 in Diddy's favor for a week or so), but I do maintain that while the match-up is realistically closer to even, Diddy still has the slight edge.
As is the case with most heavyweights, their hurt-boxes are bigger and you can therefore rack up a great deal more damage at a quicker rate. If DeDeDe starts camping with Waddle Dees, power-shield them and walk or run past them, for the only reason they are even a minor nuisance is biggest they detract from your glide-tossing. Or, if you're fond of mild changeups, you can consider just short-hopping and throwing the banana since you'll get a good deal more horizontal range out of it.
My other rule thumb against DeDeDe is to never approach him without having already created an opening for yourself by tripping him. It may turn into a projectile-fest for a few seconds per stock, but you will have far greater success than DeDeDe in projectile pressure in the long run due to the sheer fact that you can manipulate the speed and trajectory of both your projectiles to better suit the circumstances. If you still get frustrated and feel compelled to approach, at least be armed with a banana peel.
As far as KOing D3 goes, I recall that you had some significant issues with killing characters due to an over-reliance on F- and D-smashing. Have you bothered to observe my earlier advice of literally not using your KO moves period and just let your tilts and aerials do the heavy lifting? - I just went back and watched my first Loser's Semifinals set against Foursaken (D3) at OH SNAP! on Battlefield, and I knocked off his first stock with a completely fresh, unused D-smash close to the middle of the stage when he was at exactly 113%. This tactic requires a great deal of discipline, but you will reap beautiful dividends later on.
If I had to recommend a smash attack for you to abuse, it would most definitely be U-smash. It has amazingly swift start-up, deals a solid 16% damage fresh, and has greater hit-box range in the rear. On top of that, the final hit of the attack has interesting properties all on its own: it deals the most damage, elevates Diddy high enough off the ground where most low attacks (and grabs, including D3's) will actually whiff, and the horizontal hit-box in front of Diddy will actually extend outward to a slight but noticeable degree. It has generally low knock-back and relatively short cool-down frames, which greatly expands the number of follow-up options you have out of it (U-tilt, any aerial, etc.).
I would heavily encourage everyone to make U-smash, tilts, grabs, and aerial follow-ups your main sources for damage-stacking, and literally only use F- and D-smash strictly for KOing.
Lastly, platform camping. I highly enjoy playing D3 on stages with platforms, because once I get underneath him, I can camp him and follow his missed techs and subsequent rolls on the tiny platforms with glide-tosses all day long. His D-air might be an answer, but that requires him to at least short-hop off the platform or at least be falling towards it. In both scenarios, he is still susceptible to eating banana peels and follow-ups. The other reason platforms are amazing is because they are low enough to where D3 will still trip on them if they are on either platforms, because he is so fat. This also includes Falco's chain-grab and Meta Knight's D-throw, for both these actions causes both characters hurt-boxes to extend upward.
EDIT: OH SNAP! v4.0 Loser's Semifinals: Foursaken (D3) vs. Le THieN (Diddy), Match #1
As is the case with most heavyweights, their hurt-boxes are bigger and you can therefore rack up a great deal more damage at a quicker rate. If DeDeDe starts camping with Waddle Dees, power-shield them and walk or run past them, for the only reason they are even a minor nuisance is biggest they detract from your glide-tossing. Or, if you're fond of mild changeups, you can consider just short-hopping and throwing the banana since you'll get a good deal more horizontal range out of it.
My other rule thumb against DeDeDe is to never approach him without having already created an opening for yourself by tripping him. It may turn into a projectile-fest for a few seconds per stock, but you will have far greater success than DeDeDe in projectile pressure in the long run due to the sheer fact that you can manipulate the speed and trajectory of both your projectiles to better suit the circumstances. If you still get frustrated and feel compelled to approach, at least be armed with a banana peel.
As far as KOing D3 goes, I recall that you had some significant issues with killing characters due to an over-reliance on F- and D-smashing. Have you bothered to observe my earlier advice of literally not using your KO moves period and just let your tilts and aerials do the heavy lifting? - I just went back and watched my first Loser's Semifinals set against Foursaken (D3) at OH SNAP! on Battlefield, and I knocked off his first stock with a completely fresh, unused D-smash close to the middle of the stage when he was at exactly 113%. This tactic requires a great deal of discipline, but you will reap beautiful dividends later on.
If I had to recommend a smash attack for you to abuse, it would most definitely be U-smash. It has amazingly swift start-up, deals a solid 16% damage fresh, and has greater hit-box range in the rear. On top of that, the final hit of the attack has interesting properties all on its own: it deals the most damage, elevates Diddy high enough off the ground where most low attacks (and grabs, including D3's) will actually whiff, and the horizontal hit-box in front of Diddy will actually extend outward to a slight but noticeable degree. It has generally low knock-back and relatively short cool-down frames, which greatly expands the number of follow-up options you have out of it (U-tilt, any aerial, etc.).
I would heavily encourage everyone to make U-smash, tilts, grabs, and aerial follow-ups your main sources for damage-stacking, and literally only use F- and D-smash strictly for KOing.
Lastly, platform camping. I highly enjoy playing D3 on stages with platforms, because once I get underneath him, I can camp him and follow his missed techs and subsequent rolls on the tiny platforms with glide-tosses all day long. His D-air might be an answer, but that requires him to at least short-hop off the platform or at least be falling towards it. In both scenarios, he is still susceptible to eating banana peels and follow-ups. The other reason platforms are amazing is because they are low enough to where D3 will still trip on them if they are on either platforms, because he is so fat. This also includes Falco's chain-grab and Meta Knight's D-throw, for both these actions causes both characters hurt-boxes to extend upward.
EDIT: OH SNAP! v4.0 Loser's Semifinals: Foursaken (D3) vs. Le THieN (Diddy), Match #1
ADHD
Smash Hero
I started to win against every d3 I faced after I learned the matchup. Basically just don't get grabbed and camp your *** off. Alpha, the highest d3 should live is like 160, you have a habit of decaying all your KO moves early on in the stock. Waddle dees are slow, and laggy and diddy's peanuts/bananas can work their way around waddle dees either way.
Luigi player
Smash Master
Just space your glidetoss so that he can't grab you. Waddle Dees aren't good projektiles (imo). Just watch out for a Gordo and camp if you want. Once you've got Dedede tripped you can combo him really well.
I think Dededes biggest + is that he can chaingrab you to the edge and then edgeguard you with bair.
Be sure to have a banana behind you so that he can't chaingrab you across the stage.
I think Dededes biggest + is that he can chaingrab you to the edge and then edgeguard you with bair.
Be sure to have a banana behind you so that he can't chaingrab you across the stage.
Count
Smash Champion
Ftilt is your friend in this matchup, IMO.
ADHD
Smash Hero
I don't see how, it may have range but dedede has better range and if it fails you can still get grabbed.
mastermiind
Smash Apprentice
this is realy good help i never though about doing this kinda stuf against him o and what does imo mean
ice_cream_man
Smash Journeyman
in my opinion
~^.NoiR.^~
Smash Ace
make him come to you and then punish him. Use 1 banana as a wall and peanuts as a air wall. Punish when you see that he is vulnerable. Watch how NL does it against DSF
Count
Smash Champion
I dunno I've had success following my glidetosses up with ftilts even against good d3s. I don't really like my other glide toss options except smashes for the KO because of shield grabs.
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
can d3 chaingrab u over a bannana? if not then make sure to always have on lying in the middle. the other one should be in ur hand and wait for oppening. alpha if u going to smash early to build percents, make sure u let them re new before kill percent
saberhof
Smash Master
alright easy matchup i have played it many times...
its a trap setup for DDD, he cannot trap you in anything unless its a grab, how to avoid being grabbed?...you jumpp. :D now....
basic trap set up for diddy to get close to DDD: jump with a banana in hand, pull out the second one in the air and let it fall...he may not go get it, but you have 2 options from here, throw the banana at him, or fall to the ground and rush him after he gets to the floor....dedede cannot get you if hes in the air...even more if you have a banana in hand...
now another note, would be glide tossing to the ground going backwards then side b GRAB leaving the banana there, never attempt the kick :O...he will think you are going to try the kick or throw the banana at him, i dont think he will react that fast to hit you with everything going on...very odd odds lol...
theres lots of ways not to get grabbed, its all traps...cause ddd is all grab and dee tossing :O...
never rush a ddd unless you really know him and know he plays :O...its an easy match up for me...
all of the above = Mindgames....
its a trap setup for DDD, he cannot trap you in anything unless its a grab, how to avoid being grabbed?...you jumpp. :D now....
basic trap set up for diddy to get close to DDD: jump with a banana in hand, pull out the second one in the air and let it fall...he may not go get it, but you have 2 options from here, throw the banana at him, or fall to the ground and rush him after he gets to the floor....dedede cannot get you if hes in the air...even more if you have a banana in hand...
now another note, would be glide tossing to the ground going backwards then side b GRAB leaving the banana there, never attempt the kick :O...he will think you are going to try the kick or throw the banana at him, i dont think he will react that fast to hit you with everything going on...very odd odds lol...
theres lots of ways not to get grabbed, its all traps...cause ddd is all grab and dee tossing :O...
never rush a ddd unless you really know him and know he plays :O...its an easy match up for me...
all of the above = Mindgames....
CHOMPY
Sinbad: King of Sindria
I had some trouble against good King D3 players like Lain C018. Though Ive beaten C018 most of the time but I could not win one game against Lain. That was only because my C-stick wasnt working right that day.
But what you can do against a King D3 that puts up his shield is to a peanut gun cancel, then single dribble foward then grab D3. The more you use that techniqe, the less likely he will put his shield and you can throw your bananas from there. Alot of times, I like to space my tilts so I dont get grabbed and the tilts are more effective to use than smash attacks when King D3s percentage is low.. Save the smashes when King D3 is at 100% or higher. Spiking or Diddy him doesnt really work effectivly since he has muliple jumps and his Up B move can jump.
But what you can do against a King D3 that puts up his shield is to a peanut gun cancel, then single dribble foward then grab D3. The more you use that techniqe, the less likely he will put his shield and you can throw your bananas from there. Alot of times, I like to space my tilts so I dont get grabbed and the tilts are more effective to use than smash attacks when King D3s percentage is low.. Save the smashes when King D3 is at 100% or higher. Spiking or Diddy him doesnt really work effectivly since he has muliple jumps and his Up B move can jump.
Lain and I did two money matches at the last MWC event. First money match he beat me 2-0. Second money match I beat him 2-0.
We did some friendlies way way later in the day and I think he beat me like 3 or 4 to 1, but he went 0-1 (or 2?) with Ice Climbers.
I lost to Joshu in brackets 2-0.
We did some friendlies way way later in the day and I think he beat me like 3 or 4 to 1, but he went 0-1 (or 2?) with Ice Climbers.
I lost to Joshu in brackets 2-0.
GDX
Smash Hero
all i can say is you better start saving them kill moves against the penguin
mnkey
Smash Cadet
i agree save it and it will make killing so much easier.. and i watched quite a few of your vids and i gotta say your really good but like people were saying you you deplete your ko percentage by using your fsmash and dsmash... try to gimp him its really easy since his jump is floaty and slow it leaves him open for a lot of potential early kills.. also waddle dees are crap dont pay attention to them slow, weak and you can just run through them its nothing.
just some quick notes
he has trouble picking up the banana with that dash attack.
dtilt and ftilt win.
you can try to bait him into picking up bananas, and punish accordingly. He might have trouble picking it up anyway, which will give you extra time.
dont use dsmash till your kills.
thats about it. i've been really inactive lately. what with my new sig shop...
he has trouble picking up the banana with that dash attack.
dtilt and ftilt win.
you can try to bait him into picking up bananas, and punish accordingly. He might have trouble picking it up anyway, which will give you extra time.
dont use dsmash till your kills.
thats about it. i've been really inactive lately. what with my new sig shop...