So do you guys think we do better or worse in MK ban?

[culexus・wau]

Serious Question guys.

with MK ban tournaments poppin up again I feel that this is a worthwhile topic to be discussing.

I'm not really sure myself, so what do you guys think?

 

[EPsilon933]

1 of our 3 worst matchups is gone. That's a good thing, right?

With MetaKnight gone, I supposed everyone but Diddy Kong, Wario, and Falco will be freed from MK's reign and can put up a fight too. More King Dededes and Snakes and Marths may appear

 

[RT]

There will theoretically be more Snakes and D3s.

So it would not be very beneficial.

In theory.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Short term: Very beneficial.

Long term: Probably not.

Chances are if someone has been maining MK for 3 years their secondaries aren't going to be up to the same level as MK. So, even if it is Snake and D3 they will probably not be as well practiced.

Now we are well aware of our shortcomings and have been playing Lucario for the lifespan of the game. So, basically former MK mainers would be playing us with another character not at their peak and we'd be playing with our peak performance.

Over time though you can practically assume D3s will perfect the infinite on Snake (and the Usmash from DThrow on us...). So, yeah, that's gonna suck.

However... I bet something crazy is going to happen like G&W and Olimar giving the top tiers a hard time minus MK. We are evenly matched against those two, so in the end it may not be so bad for us.

 

[D. Disciple]

*Looks at thread, shrugs shoulders and goes back to lurking*

"Won't know until they actually do it."

 

[tekkie]

i'd rather play against a bad dedede/snake than a good mk

 

[D Who?]

I agree with Disciple. But I think D3 would become a much more seen character. Snake would stay the same or go down a lil cause of more D3, and Marth would be get picked up more. That just what I think. I don't see Snake getting more popular. (I could be wrong)

DK will get a boost in tournys too. He just has D3 to worry about and thats it. (Granted that's still bad)
Olimar would get a boost too, but I feel like Oli holds his own very well against MK
TL would benefit alot
Pit would also benefit alot
ROB would get a boost
And I think we will see more Falco's and StarFox characters in general.
And I don't think anyone else really matters.

As for Lucario, I think he'll stay where he is. Lucario has a solid match up against IC and can hold his own vs Ditty. I don't know anything about Wario so I can't be certain. Lucario, Falco IMO is about ever or a very slight advantage for Falco so that shouldn't be so bad.

But I would like to see this happen. I feel like the more and more I play, the more I see the game catering to MK.

 

[C.J.]

I think D3 would become a much more seen character.

DK will get a boost in tournys too. He just has D3 to worry about and thats it. (Granted that's still bad)

Wa t

 

[D Who?]

Wa t

Dk is a heavy character with a very well rounded move set. He has a good recovery and alot of power in his attacks. Not to mention he has range on them too and a really good bair. His upB gives him superarmor for a few frames. So he can upB for a hard read. He kills early and is heavy with decent DI. Now, D3 has a wicked CG on him.
Here is what DK's say about his MU chart
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273168
It's solid vs top tier.

I hope you're not confused anymore.

Also, I didn't say you'd see more of him, I just said he'd get a boost. He would be a more usable character.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I got some thoughts for this. I'll post when I get back today.

 

[Steam]

Luc would get better IMO... I think experience aside MK is our worst matchup. in practice it isn't because everyone just works their *** of at that matchup... with MK gone we can turn a much greater focus on snake/D3. we'll see them a lot more in friendlies/tournament and just improve at the matchup now that everyone isn't working their *** off to keep the MK matchup winnable.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

One thing we do not explore much in the MU vs. Snake is... Double Team.

Seriously Mortar, Grenade, NAir (sometimes), and probably some other stuff we could easily Double Team and prevent Nade traps and from Snake pressuring our shields.

D3's Waddles are another thing we could use to our advantage. I honestly rage a little whenever I see a Lucario mindlessly throwing Aura Spheres at Waddles. Unless you're clinging with them or something you're just degrading a great kill move vs. D3. Jab them or something if you've got room. FREE MOVE REFRESHMENT. Also if both his Waddles are in hitstun D3 cannot pull out another one. If they don't know that just throw a blue ball at him during that laggy animation.

That basically forces him to approach and well... Aside from his FTilt, BAir, and Grab his approaches are pretty darn limited.

Aside from those two with the MK ban we really don't have a counter in the high/top tiers...

D3's going to be annoying if RC still remains unbanned though... Then we have to Deal with D3 on Halberd, if not there Delfino, if not there relentlessly chasing us on Castle Siege's transformations, if not there we'll get CGed all across FD... -.-

Anyone wanna teach me ICs to handle D3s? lol j/k

We are lucky though, since we do pretty well on just about any stage. Most high and top tiers have some sort of counterpick stages that they get ***** on.

 

[D. Disciple]

What do you mean we don't explore double team against Snake?

 

[phi1ny3]

aside from some unusual mixups, I feel I would be too scared to use DT consistently against snake personally. Mortars and grenades tbh don't put snake in enough vulnerability to make it a reliable answer, and while it would be useful as a mixup for getting down to the ground when recovering against mortar (and occasionally punishing snake), it's not entirely worth it (it's sorta useful if they bug the entire place imo, but once again, very situational).

I do agree with the waddle comment though, keeping a good kill option fresh is a good idea. Throwing AS for camping/slowing D3 down and revealing his method/pattern more is not bad either though, camping D3 hardcore is imo a good strat for the MU, as long as you aren't stupid and are aware when you should stop throwing because the distance for him to be able to punish is surprisingly large.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

What do you mean we don't explore double team against Snake?

The ever so common situation where Snake tries to trap you with two nades on the ground or in the air.

Shield health is super duper important in this MU because of that stupid FTilt.

 

[Metakill]

Everyone practice A LOT just for the MK matchup.
My snake get better, my reflexs, my camping game and my way to get back to the stage. JUST for MK.
And all of that work for my Vs. every other character in the game.
Now... without MK, the people now will be SO lazy, something that everyone want... "Now I don't have to practice Vs. MK, my hardest matchup, all will be more easy".

MK make Brawl more fun 'cuz is the goal for all... BEAT THAT ****ING BAT OF THE HELL!

 

[Steam]

that logic is so bad... lol

 

[EPsilon933]

Let me reword his logic

MetaKnight, being as broken as he is, pushes forces players to improve. Then you have players playing well, which is more fun

 

[culexus・wau]

ey I was saying DT was good against snake for like

forever.

I just need to stop ****ing up the timing in earlier %s lol

 

[Steam]

I would think bad matchups in general force people to improve. seems like a really lame excuse.

oh and it only forces the non-MK users to improve.

 

[RT]

Fighting against MK is a literal never ending battle. For every one possible approach that you cover, he has three other options. He just has so many options and so many moves that are versatile. And when all else fails, start planking or scrooging. My MK is pretty garbage, but I still do okay with him in friendlies. It's just so dumb.

 

[IceDX]

Its bad, good thing i live in mexico (no ban here for the foreseable future)


Mk is really fun btw, to play as and against is only a pain on wifi i guess..

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think he would do the same in retrospect.

We lose our 2nd or 3rd worst MU, I still think Snake is the worst, We would see more of the other characters which would depend on where the meta goes.

More diddys is better than more Snakes for example. Pocket DeDeDe being common or not, basically it depends where people who used to main him go for a new character.

It could go either way, I more so see it being better for him overall but if people focus on specific characters it would be worse for him.

 

[Steam]

I think once all the effort that we have to put into MK to keep it winnable goes to other characters... we'll be a lot better... same goes for pretty much everyone :L

D3 really isn't that bad. Snake is lame tho.

 

[John12346]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this already, but the nades blow up after exactly 3 seconds. It even says so on the grenade itself.

"Grenade, Delay 3.0"

Also yes, DT is very helpful in the Snake matchup, for sure.

 

[culexus・wau]

its not exactly 3 seconds

theres a decimal of random numbers after the 3

I remember.

 

[Host Change]

I think with Meta Knight disappearing from the scene, it helps out basically everyone. People can play their old mains and do a lot of other things. I'm not completely in favor of the MK ban cause, but now in my state he's banned from pretty much all the tournaments.

I think it would help Lucario significantly. That's one less problem for Lucario mains. Even though I just recently picked up Lucario as my secondary, I'm about to find out a lot firsthand now that MK is gone in Alabama. Honestly, I can see a lot of characters developing all kinds of new metagames now that the main reason preventing people from using a character is gone. Only time will really tell, but it will be interesting to see...

 

[D. Disciple]

Why did Alabama ban MK?

 

[Steam]

For the same reason Colorado did.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

WAIT some states actually banned MK already?

Does anyone know an exact listing of states?

 

[Host Change]

Why did Alabama ban MK?

The Alabama Smash League voted 11-2 to get rid of him. Everyone pretty much agreed he was broken and that it would help growth of our league to get rid of him. Our state has been trying to do a lot to bring new people into the community including doing things on campus at colleges all around the state. I'm not really sure what all states did ban him so far, but I just know that people are probably going to follow our example. Unity is considering banning him alltogether, and I know they are interested in the results of our tournaments this fall to see how MK gone affects the competitive scene.

Personally, as a newer player myself (started playing competitive in April) I'm kind of happy to see MK gone, but now everyone's going to try to pick up Marth, Snake and Falco. I don't really have a problem with people picking up Falco, but Snake is still somebody I have a lot of problems against compared to other top tier characters...

 

[Steam]

Colorado's banning him and we're looking to be about twice as active/arge as we were before

 

[Browny]

Lmfao

I will laugh so hard if banning mk revives brawl and prove that the BBR was wrong for over 3 years. Talk about epic fail.

 

[RT]

I'll laugh if this poll actually does something...it's only the 5th public poll about it, and the first four were for the ban. I guess that's how democracy works...

 

[Steam]

well now we actually have John#'s data that kinda shows MK's stupid dominance

 

[Browny]

His data is horribly skewed though, it merely determines the correlation between good players, and how many use mk.

That doesnt make MK any less broken and banworthy, but his work does not show this beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[RT]

After witnessing someone using MK and winning quite a few sets by timing out at least one match this weekend...it's ********. Even with all these limitations on his broken techs, all these attempts at removing stages in his favor, all these rules...he can still win a match just by running away. And no one can catch him, unless you use him too.

Three years later and four votes later...still no progress. So dumb.

I really wish people would just run tourneys with no restrictions on his planking, IDC, scrooging, RC/Brinstar legal, and just see what happens. Like...let the MKs go all out and show how dumb of a character he is. And then finally ban him.

 

[Browny]

That wont happen though, people dont have the mental fortitude to play like that for 8 minutes, and ESPECIALLY since everyone would hate them.

The problem is, people can abuse his broken **** as a clutch at any time they want, and it only takes a few moments to be in a massively advantageous position. The fact that MK is so dominant while people only use him properly for like 20% of the match, is a scary thought indeed.

 

[RT]

The sad part is that this ruleset revolving around one character has been going on for about two years now...I could be wrong, but I don't think any other fighting game has rules that limit a character so much...they usually just ban the character outright.

 

[Browny]

The difference is, no other fighting game is so desperate to prove its legitimacy as a fighting game, they dont conform to these unwritten rules, because banning the best character is 'scrubby'.

I still fully maintain that the bbr has done nothing but harm brawl. All of their benefits are acheived in other game communities without this ******** 'do what we say or you are a scrub' false projection of authority.

By acting as the 'elite', they attract the best players thus the only reason it exists is for the self-gratification of its members.