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So... Balanced Brawl??

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
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Sep 9, 2005
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3,506
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246327

So they officially released Balanced Brawl... and you don't need the Homebrew Channel to access it, even... just an SD card, and a copy of Brawl.

So this could become tournament standard pretty easily...since the main reason it wouldn't be would be that some setups wouldn't have the HBC, but you no longer need that.

I don't know, this project looks incredibly well thought-out, and maybe should be considered for tourney play.

Discuss!
 

nevershootme

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Feb 9, 2008
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being an engineer and i'm a supporter of correcting bad **** happening (reverse engineering). you can use the bannerbomb trick to load gecko OS and fire it from there. sooo either method will work

-bannerbomb
-through brawl disc

and really... it's not gonna brick a wii unless that wii is ********

the problem as it stands is that people aren't so fond of supporting hacks as is... all they get a hard on for is textures and music...

I'm supporting anything... but people seriously need to try it out before making quick stupid conclusions.... and brawl+
 

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
3,506
being an engineer and i'm a supporter of correcting bad **** happening (reverse engineering). you can use the bannerbomb trick to load gecko OS and fire it from there. sooo either method will work

-bannerbomb
-through brawl disc

and really... it's not gonna brick a wii unless that wii is ********

the problem as it stands is that people aren't so fond of supporting hacks as is... all they get a hard on for is textures and music...

I'm supporting anything... but people seriously need to try it out before making quick stupid conclusions.... and brawl+
Well yeah, things that are cool about this are that you can run it on any Wii without giong through the HBC or anything... just run the game and an SD card and you're good... and that it was set out simply to try to perfect Brawl...not necessarily greatly change the game, just make more characters viable, and every matchup more even.

Most people don't like hacks because they:
1. used to require soft-modding the Wii, and thus were only available on certain Wiis, so a tournament could only consist of soft-modded Wiis
2. change the game greatly... so why not just play another game entirely?

(not saying either of these are my viewpoint)

So the fact that BB is applicable for every Wii people would bring to a tourney, and that it doesn't change the core game really make it an option for maybe tournament standard...

I personally support it...think it's a great idea, and looks to be a lot of fun.
 

DC

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
55
Waste of time imo. It will never catch on more than B+, aka it will never become big enough to be tourney standard, so people will continue to play vB and pick Meta Knight, lol.
 

GA Peach

Smash Lord
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Nov 6, 2005
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CHUG! CHUG! CHUG!
Waste of time imo. It will never catch on more than B+, aka it will never become big enough to be tourney standard, so people will continue to play vB and pick Meta Knight, lol.
i would be willing to give Balanced Brawl a try, but i think this guy may ultimately be right, haha.
 

nevershootme

Smash Master
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case in point. counterstrike... it was a mod of half life engine, people tried it, people loved it, and viola! revisions and popularity increased...

brawl+ vision: keep the spirit of what smash was (combos, stun, speed)

balanced brawl vision: correct the wrongs of vBrawl due to imbalance and ****... meaning patch this ****...

wii's are now flexible in it's hacking ability. although some wii's have the different hardware chip, but it's still exploited regardless

in today's world, people are so closed minded often and never flexible for anything. therefore, greed is good
 

chaddd

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
1,485
Balanced is an entirely different thing from "not boring".
 

Fenrir VII

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Sep 9, 2005
Messages
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At least 90% of the character changes in Balanced Brawl are just making moves more or less powerful. It's clearly pointed out in its project description that there are no changes to hitbox size or character mobility, and very few changes to attack startup/cooldown. Which means that at the highest level of play Balanced Brawl plays exactly like regular Brawl (except that grab releases have been removed). It's not a change at all from regular Brawl except for the removal of grab releases (which matter very little at the highest level of play). Even if all of MK's moves only did 1% and he only killed at 999% he'd still be the best character at the very top level of play because of his frame data
Well...not exactly...

First of all, they changed quite a few attack knockback levels and angles... such as MK's tornado not being a huge trap anymore... and etc.

MK is the best due to his better zoning game, and ability to kill... they took quite a bit of his killing power and damage tools away, so he'll have to work quite a bit harder than before to kill... and he's still a lightweight... I think that's a decent nerf for him...

Same idea with Snake... they eliminated his huge killing advantage with tilts, to most extent... and that affects quite a few matchups with most of the cast.

Whereas (from experience) Fox was only brought down by like 3 locks and CGs... so the removal of these lockas and CGs will suddenly make hima MUCH more viable character than before...

And DDD doesn't wreck half the cast anymore...

I would think you'll be seeing quite a few changes in tier position and tourney placings, to be honest.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
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NC
Diddy can't banana lock. The issue here is that one of the coolest characters in the game became less cool. What the hell is up with that?

The nanner lock wasn't even that unbalanced.
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
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Oct 27, 2008
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Haiti Gonna Hait
The changes to DDD is getting rid of his chaingrab.
I understand the infinite, but the chaingrab itself does not hurt charecters that bad. The charecters who are hurt from the chaingrab are because they lack a way to get keepthemselves safely out of it, or because they are easily gimped. Much of those problems were already fixed by the buffs to the other charecters, meanwhile, all of D3s previous 35:65 matchups are left as is, and D3 was given no tools to help this. There response was learn to tech chase, and downthrow at the edge to throw em low. I responded how if that were useful, we'd see Melee foxes and Falco's downthrowing at edges to send players to their doom much more often, to which they responded by disagreeing politely. I expressed my concern many times, only to have it said that the chaingrab was to be removed because it made stages nonviable. I stopped trying to convince them after this.
I'm against BBrawl because the people running it are idiots.

They nerfed Snake's (already hideous) Jab rather then a super-nerf on his Utilt... you know... nerfing dair, nair, dtilt, ftilt, bair, uair, grenades, c4, or mines would have been a brighter idea. I mean.. nair and dair KO really really early (earlier then Jab IIRC. I at least know dair does..) and do a whopping 29% each.... yet a Jab that should never be hitting is broken?

/main beef with BBrawl. I'm sure if I bothered to look at other characters I'd laugh my *** off as well.

Wait.. was it BBrawl or Brawl+ that made Yoshi's fair give a DK side-B effect? That's just... laughable....

Now Brawl+ truly isn't -horribad-. It's just laughable as a competitive scene.

Seriously, what M said.

"Play Melee"
Yeah, this thing is awful.
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
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Nov 11, 2008
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8,994
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Georgia
LOL

i looked at the changes to the chars

everyones like 8 ines at most

then you get to cf and its like

30 lines
looool

the only thing i agree with on that whole list is the nerf to uthrows bkb


luigi was already broken enough no need to give him a spammable projectile
 

Purple

Hi guys!
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You know how people begin to like matchups after they play it alot?

Wouldn't balanced brawl kind of just be like..

"oh well... it's even... erm..."

every matchup?

that's kind of dull..
 

Retroend

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before i say anyhting, i have to say this, i haven't tried balanced brawl, cause i was waiting for the final product and school cam ein. however i did watch videos about it, and i was impressed (although not as impressed as brawl+) but still looked really good. i hope to give it a try soon. i hope it meets its expectations.

being an engineer and i'm a supporter of correcting bad **** happening (reverse engineering). you can use the bannerbomb trick to load gecko OS and fire it from there. sooo either method will work

-bannerbomb
-through brawl disc

and really... it's not gonna brick a wii unless that wii is ********

the problem as it stands is that people aren't so fond of supporting hacks as is... all they get a hard on for is textures and music...

I'm supporting anything... but people seriously need to try it out before making quick stupid conclusions.... and brawl+
i support brawl+ all the way!

Waste of time imo. It will never catch on more than B+, aka it will never become big enough to be tourney standard, so people will continue to play vB and pick Meta Knight, lol.
Yeah, this thing is awful.
oh yea, i remember seeing your posts about ddd losing his chaingrab. seriously, why should that stay there? half the cast couldn't face that fat penguin because of that chaingrab. i'm glad its gone for good.
 

tubes

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Oct 30, 2008
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Atlanta, GA
I normally wouldn't give two ****s about this but I wanna try edge guarding with multiple air raptor boosts.
 

Ruuku

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Kissimmee, FL
retro, the final product of BBrawl is ready anyways. they won't update it for several months or when there's enough call for a change

and falcon's knee is 30%???
Well, Zelda's toe does 20% in regular brawl and it's easier to hit. So I think C. Falcon needs it.
 

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
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At the highest level of play, killing potential doesn't matter if your opponent can't hit you or hits you at a very very slow rate (slow enough that you get them to their killing % before they get you to your killing %). It doesn't matter if MK can only kill Falcon at 900%, since it's mathematically impossible for him to get through MK's fair due to the frame data (ignore perfect shielding)

The same logic applies to DDD. Notice how the top tier characters who get chaingrabbed (Snake, Wario, Diddy) all do reasonably well against DDD. That's because they have the tools to play safe and not get grabbed/outranged (whether through projectiles, superior range, mobility, grab mixups, etc), because they're GOOD characters. BAD characters don't have the ability to fight DDD due to his range because they have no possible way of getting through it. Even if DDD can't chaingrab you it doesn't matter if you can't approach without being bair'd/grabbed

I don't really know how MK's tornado change would affect anything (now it apparently makes people fly out instantly instead of being stuck inside) but it probably wouldn't be too big. Snake's reduced killing power affects stuff a lot though against characters like Diddy who can hit him but have to wait like twice as long Snake does to kill. In the end though the top metagame of Balanced Brawl would just be MK, playing almost exactly as MK would at the top level of regular Brawl, and the few good characters which can play evenly with MK, which were all made worse than they were before with the exception of Diddy Kong, making it even HARDER to beat MK outside of dittos
Well, I don't know, to be honest.. You can pull the MK vs CF matchup, and sure, that match was and I'm sur still is hard... but that's not the case in every matchup.

The thing is, MK is not unhittable... he just had the most superior moveset in the game. Not that his killing potential is taken away, and a nearly unbeatable move (against some characters) is gone, he is severely weakened... and may very well have very bad matchups that move him away from being at the top...

For instance, the Marth Vs MK match was fairly even, with it being in MK's favor almost entirely because MK could kill Marth much easier than the other way around...

Samus was unable to fight MK mainly because of tornado, and her lack of killing power... now, tornado is weakened, and Samus received such huge buff that they are considering her one of the best... everything might change...

Even in vBrawl, characters like Fox had very close matchups with MK, but were slightly overpowered in the matchup...

if you take away tornado (against some chars) and MK's killing power, many of the characters who were roughly even before may move up and actually become counters to MK... because he can no longer kill them easily, so the war of attrition plays out...

And I feel this would be greatly amplified in tournament match, because matchups state that each character is played perfectly.

I'm going to try this out sometime soon... it seems interesting.
 

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
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Sep 9, 2005
Messages
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MK is unhittable in theory by most characters, and tornado is not even nearly an "unbeatable" move. I suggest you catch up with the current Brawl metagame if you want to have an informed opinion
Don't be arrogant

in theory does not turn into reality in game, for one. Secondly, "most characters" is not "all characters" so my point could easily be valid... and he not be the top character in the game...

Tornado is beatable, I understand this... especially as a Fox player. But it has the potential to make some matchups nearly unwinnable by itself. I did say against some characters, and I feel that it is a nearly unbeatable strategy against some characters...
 
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