Smashfest Thursday, September 1st at 5pm. Brawl

[LooftWaffles]

Exact same reason I refuse to play with Sephiroth skin Marth. Messes me up sooooo badly

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah. I actually found a version the other day with a sword that has the length fixed.

Only textures I have on my SD card for characters though is all the default ones for Zelda/Sheik, the team colours for PT, Sonic, and Lucario, and the default ones for Samus/ZSS, just so that it's not disc-laser dependent loading times.

imo, everyone with a hacked wii should have those, no exceptions. Mostly because the default team colours for those characters are ********.

Though everyone forgets to grab the module when they set it up for the loading times. EVERYONE.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Gi, We'll have to Money Match at the Tourney, I'll have Money by then, We should live stream it too :o

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I can assure me going tomorrow! Though I might get there a lttle early due to ride issues.. say 4:00pm - 4:25 pm hope you dont mind~ :3

 

[leafshadow]

Like I said I'm there

 

[Gichan]

Hopefully I'll be there peachy. If I'm not, I swear I won't keep you waiting too long.

Anyone wanna be nice enough and bring some drinks to this? Thanks.

And it's 4:22am, just got home from work after a 15 hour shift, life's great. If my place is kinda messy tomorrow please excuse me, I've just had no time for chores. Gonna rush them when i wake up tomorrow. See you guys soon.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'll stop at a corner store and grab some soda or something. There has to be one near there.

Also, would you guys humour me and test a certain stage competitively with me? I've become convinced it can be competitive, and I'm pretty sure I'm right. As in, it's basically a combined Delfino Plaza and Rainbow Cruise with stuff that gets in the way of walkoffs.

Spoiler

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2. Honestly I used to prefer 1-1 but it has pretty severe walkoff camping issues. 1-2 however DOESN'T really have that issue. Seriously, I'll show you, give it a chance. I need some legit matches so I can make the argument to the BBR-RC.

Gi, is there somewhere for me to put my bike at your place? Even a fence to lock it up against or w/e. I probably won't be at the computer when you read this, so text me.

Spoiler

four one six eight three six two three five zero

 

[fUddO]

Ok, I know you've been trolling me for the past couple of weeks, you don't need to troll everyone else too.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'm not trolling, actually. I'm dead serious. It's on the level of Norfair and Japes when it comes to legality.

*EDIT* Anyone want to try Brawl Risk at this? Linkshot invented it and it seems pretty cool. I'm setting up a board right now.

 

[fUddO]

You obviously a on something. That whole level is a cave of mutha****in life.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Cave of life is, contrary to popular belief, NOT one of the ban criteria. And it really isn't. Unless you're a character who struggles to kill off the sides, but character weakness.

And a missed tech upwards can mean death because you'll break the block and KEEP GOING.

In case you bring it up, Temple is banned because Metaknight and Fox have unbeatable circle camping there. That is the ONLY reason.

 

[fUddO]

Pit can stop MK and Fox circle camping on Temple (Arrows and WoI). It's still banned. YI:M is banned. Summit is banned. LUIGI'S MANSION IS BANNED.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Of those.

YI:M should not be banned.

Pit's arrows cannot stop it if they have a stock lead. Arrows don't kill. (Well I SUPPOSE if they're at 300% but Fox DOES have a reflector that comes out on frame 3. And he's invincible until then)

Summit has heavy circle camping.

Luigi's Mansion should not be banned.


Also, y'know, if you actually know the stage and your character, the ceiling isn't all that much of a problem on 1-2.

Actually, I'm going to make my optimal stagelist. Right now.

 

[fUddO]

Luigi's Mansion has been heavily tested in competitive play. (Proof: Ruleset 2.0 says it was C/B, previously C http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230481) It was actually played, unlike a lot of other borderline stages, since it was probably Diddy's and Olimar's best stage.

Fox can't reflector in the middle of his Fair, Firefox, or Flash. You're also forgetting about WoI, which gives Pit one of the highest aerial movement speeds in the game, and can be refreshed instantly when you're chasing someone in a circle camping situation. Actually, I don't know why you used Fox as your example in the first place. ROB, MK, Sonic, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Pit are all better circle campers by a huge margin.

AND this whole discussion is all stupid because Cave of Life IS part of ban criteria, or at least it was considered so when we actually used criteria to ban stuff instead of "uniting."

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Fox is faster than all of them on Temple by a large margin except MK and Sonic.

Also
75m - BANNED. Excessive runaway, overly powerful permanent walkoffs.
Battlefield - STARTER
Bridge of Eldin - BANNED. Extreme MU bias (Falco, Sonic, Pit, among others).
Castle Siege - STARTER
Delfino Plaza - COUNTERPICK. Temporary walkoffs, temporary walls.
Distant Planet - COUNTERPICK. Temporary walkoff, light circle
Final Destination - COUNTERPICK. Moderate MU bias (Ice Climbers, Diddy, others)
Flat Zone 2 - BANNED. Permanent walkoffs, overly powerful hazards, unannounced randomness.
Frigate Orpheon - BANNED. Unannounced random events that can save or remove stocks (platforms on the second transformation)
Green Hill Zone - BANNED. Permanent walkoffs.
Halberd - COUNTERPICK. Announced hazards.
Hanenbow - COUNTERPICK. Moderate circle. Has never conclusively been shown to be too strong for Sonic, which is why it is banned.
Luigi's Mansion - Counterpick/Banned. I'm not sure. The platforms don't really save lives, but in some odd situations they might. Otherwise mild circle that can be weakened by destroying the mansion.
Lylat Cruise - STARTER.
Mario Bros. - BANNED. The game just ends up revolving around using the hazards to your advantage.
Mario Circuit - BANNED. Permanent walkoffs.
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 - BANNED. Overly potent walkoffs that are technically temporary but might as well not be.
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 - COUNTERPICK. Temporary weak walkoffs, weak walls, mild circle camping, moderate MU bias.
New Pork City - BANNED. Second most potent circle in the game.
Norfair - Counterpick. Announced hazards, moderate MU bias.
PictoChat - BANNED. Unannounced hazards and transformations, including removal of a ledge.
Pirate Ship - COUNTERPICK. Announced hazards, weak blastzone camping, water camping.
Pokémon Stadium 2 - COUNTERPICK. Announced transformations, physics changes.
Port Town Aero Dive - COUNTERPICK. Announced hazards, minor walkoff.
Rumble Falls - COUNTERPICK. Hazards that can't kill, moderate MU bias (characters with poor vertical mobility).
Shadow Moses Island - BANNED. Walls that reward you for breaking them by becoming walkoffs.
Skyworld - Counterpick/Banned. Moderate circle, severe MU bias (Metaknight)
Smashville - STARTER. Random platform starting position isn't really problematic.
Spear Pillar - BANNED. Heavy permanent circle.
Summit - BANNED. Moderate permanent circle.
WarioWare, Inc. - BANNED. Heavy uncontrollable randomness which can completely change the match (invincibility WTF Sakurai?).
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) - Banned. Support ghosts and shy guys can save and remove stocks.
Big Blue - Counterpick/Banned. Moderate temporary circles. Excessive runaway. Badly hurts characters who suffer from RCO lag (which is admittedly a character weakness, but it hurts them more so than any other stage)
Brinstar - COUNTERPICK. Semi-random hazard, severe MU bias (Metaknight)
Corneria - BANNED. Permanent wall. A shame. Also semi-random hazards.
Green Greens - BANNED. Temporary walls, exploding apples (which admittedly are announced but so incredibly rare it's not practical to assume they'll appear).
Jungle Japes - Non-random hazards, weak circle, weak water camping.
Onett - BANNED. Permanent walls and walkoffs.
Pokémon Stadium - COUNTERPICK. Temporary walls, temporary circle, announced randomness.
Rainbow Cruise - STARTER.
Temple - BANNED. Strongest circle in the game, permanent walls.
Yoshi's Island - STARTER. Permanent walkoff, but it's a slope and Dedede needs UNBUFFERABLE FRAME PERFECT TIMING to CG people up it.


So that's

Starter
* Battlefield
* Castle Siege
* Smashville
* Rainbow Cruise
* Yoshi's Island Melee

Counterpick
* Delfino Plaza
* Distant Planet
* Final Destination
* Halberd
* Hanenbow
* Lylat Cruise
* Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2
* Norfair
* Pirate Ship
* Pokémon Stadium
* Pokémon Stadium 2
* Port Town Aero Dive
* Rumble Falls
* Brinstar
* Jungle Japes

With 2 stage bans.

 

[fUddO]

Your list has so many problems I'm not even going to try.

Ok, I can't resist for the Hanenbow one. NOOOOOOOO. It is not banned just because of Sonic.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh really? If you know so much more than me please elaborate. Otherwise I'll ignore you like I do ADHD when it comes to stage discussion.

Seriously, posting "NOOOOOOOO" is not you trying. It's you pretending you know more about a stage than I do. CALLING YOU OUT.

Also $5 MM on Temple, my Fox, your Pit. You SD first stock. If you ever gain a lead on me, you automatically win. Today.

Hell, I'll go higher, because I CAN'T LOSE IT.

 

[Patches]

That stage list is absurd. And how does frigate have unannouncedrandom events. It makes a warning noise before a flip. I'm not sure when the platforms come out, so that could be random, but still. And it has a small, temporary wall.

By far not ban material.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Cruise and Yoshi's Melee as starters?


Pass whatever you're smoking Dirt

 

[-Googs]

after all that list no pictochat. lol

 

[Patches]

Its pretty sad that lylat is a starter, and ps1 got put back to counter pick.

Though, I'm not a particular fan of either stage.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Whats the beef with Lylat?

Intelligent use of recovery is the only thing people lack on that stage

 

[Patches]

I have bad luck with the stage. That's all it is.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I have atrocious luck with Lylat. Mostly because I don't pay attention to the cues from the background for the tilting.

Also patches the platforms on frigate's second transformation have the same problems as Yoshi's Island's support ghosts.

And Googs, you'll note that any stage with any unannounced random even is banned on my list.

My Starter List simply goes for the median of bias, not the traditional idea of a starter list.

Take MK vs. Icies (I don't really know this MU so if I'm not 100% perfect w/e).

Icies strikes first let's assume.

Icies strikes Rainbow Cruise
Metaknight strikes Smashville.
Icies strikes Yoshi's
Metaknight strikes Battlefield.

The match is played on Castle Siege, which isn't particularly good or bad for either character in the MU.

Take Dedede vs. Pit.

Pit strikes Yoshi's Melee (I'm not entirely sure if pit is CGable up the slope, I'm fairly sure he isn't because of WoI but I'm assuming the worst.)
Otherwise he strikes Siege.
If Pit struck Siege the Dedede would probably strike Yoshi's himself. Pit is ****ing gay there.

Actually easier way to do this.

Pit: Yoshi's Island (Melee)|Pit: Castle Siege
Dedede: Rainbow Cruise|Dedede: Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Pit: Castle Siege|Pit: Smashville
Dedede: Battlefield|Dedede: Rainbow Cruise
Stage: Smashville|Stage: Battlefield

*EDIT* Also Patches, any and all stages with unannounced random events with the potential to save or remove stocks are banned. Which is why Smashville is not banned. If Ness is using PKT2 that high up that he gets gimped by a balloon, the Ness is bad.

 

[MK26]

Frigate Orpheon - BANNED. Unannounced random events that can save or remove stocks (platforms on the second transformation)
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) - Banned. Support ghosts and shy guys can save and remove stocks.

And what's the difference between these two stages and Smashville's platform starting position determining whether an early-game gimp on Marth is successful?​

Hanenbow - COUNTERPICK. Moderate circle. Has never conclusively been shown to be too strong for Sonic, which is why it is banned.

Sonic is not the only problem with this stage. You're underestimating the runaway game, and that incredible camping position (in the bottom left corner, ie near two blastzones and with only one ledge) is enough to make the stage bannable by itself. Add in 'gimmicky' gameplay, which would eventually lead to people alternating spamming kill moves (taking advantage of hitlag extending hitboxes) and repeatedly tapping the leaves to keep those hitboxes permanently fresh, and it's probably a good thing this stage was snap-banned in Brawl's early days.​

Luigi's Mansion - Counterpick/Banned. I'm not sure. The platforms don't really save lives, but in some odd situations they might. Otherwise mild circle that can be weakened by destroying the mansion.

Unfortunately, a cave of life is a cave of life. This is easily the best near-legal stage to run away on, as your opponent only really has 20 free seconds to approach you vs however long it takes for him to knock down 3 of the four quarters of the mansion (and if he doesn't defend the fourth with his life [read: hope you approach] it gets destroyed and he's gotta start all over again.)​

Lylat Cruise - STARTER.

Mixed messages?​

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 - COUNTERPICK. Temporary weak walkoffs, weak walls, mild circle camping, moderate MU bias.

A cave of life is a cave of life is a cave of life. Add in a moderately fast scroll and too many places where ledges are simply missing, and you really don't have a legal stage here. Same problems as 1-1, but worse.​

Pirate Ship - COUNTERPICK. Announced hazards, weak blastzone camping, water camping.

Meh, I dislike this stage, but if people want to test it they can test it. imo water camping is just stupid. Same with PTAD/Distant Planet - I don't like them but can see the merit in looking into them.​

Rumble Falls - COUNTERPICK. Hazards that can't kill, moderate MU bias (characters with poor vertical mobility).

SPEED UP. Random action that can take a stock. Why is this not an instaban on your part?​

Skyworld - Counterpick/Banned. Moderate circle, severe MU bias (Metaknight)

You're really undervaluing the cave of life effect. When I'm not running around the top platform, I'm hiding underneath the left one and teching everything.​

Big Blue - Counterpick/Banned. Moderate temporary circles. Excessive runaway. Badly hurts characters who suffer from RCO lag (which is admittedly a character weakness, but it hurts them more so than any other stage)

Shielding is very very unsafe. Falling off a car onto the track due to shield pushback (read: untechable) is a stock every time.​

Green Greens - BANNED. Temporary walls, exploding apples (which admittedly are announced but so incredibly rare it's not practical to assume they'll appear).

I've played maybe a hundred games on this stage and I've never been hit by an exploding apple. Admittedly I've seen videos of them, but we don't know just how rare they are because they're almost non-existent. Not enough of a reason to ban the stage if both players understand the risk and are trying to avoid the apples anyway. Compared to Peach pulling a bob-omb these are relatively tame.​

Yoshi's Island - STARTER. Permanent walkoff, but it's a slope and Dedede needs UNBUFFERABLE FRAME PERFECT TIMING to CG people up it.

YIM is a stupid stage. TL dsmash shenanigans, and walkoff camping is never a good thing. Anyway, unbufferable frame-perfect timing is pretty close to what the ICs need to do, no?​

===

And while I'm here, Unity+JJ+GG+Norfair+one more stage ban is my personal opinion on the Brawl stage list

 

[Gichan]

I'm going to set one up this week for sure. Come on top players, time to help your bois level up, Joe you drive now, no excuse ya herd.

Will update as soon as I decide a date.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Ill be there

 

[Supreme Dirt]

MK26, my opinion on the stagelist has recently become FD/BF/SV, with LC as a CP.

No trolling, dead serious.

Also Gi, I'll be there.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Hmm, I wouldnt mind a fest... though... if anyone wants to help me on the lame MK MU id be grateful lol. I need to learn that if I get a % lead by camping and its working that I should continue to camp and not go agressive lol! XD Just gotta get more MK practice I guess.

Edit: Gi I'm starting to think wario may have it WORSE than Peach agaisnt MK if he doesnt get a waft on him... After seeing Ally's wario get 3 stocked by M2ks MK then the problems wario has on MK in general :/ not lookin good. If you need help on a camp game... I can help you work it out and share my mindset on camping lol~

 

[Gichan]

Ok for sure! I need to learn that **** cause a Wario who doesn't camp is fail. It's a good idea for us to share our ideas with each other and if you have a question during the match just ask and get an answer. Like with Stef on saturday night I finally got around to learning to catch a banana off my shield.

Amd I'm going to play some MK at these lol.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I've actually been seriously thinking about either switching to MK to win, or returning to Ganondorf to have fun. I mean, sure Dedede is fun, but when two of the people I play with a lot play Samus and Mario... There tend to be a lot of ragequits when at low %s 1 grab = 60%, and at high %s it means death. And then fUddO can't really just play DK when he needs a break from Pit.

Also I've got a character I'm working on to take on MK. He goes slightly better than Dedede against MK (mostly because he has a much better option than all of Dedede's against Nado) and gets cool points. Need help practicing him for sure.

Gonna do up yet another "I play this character for this MU" chart, mostly for my sake so I can see it, but I'ma include bans, CPs, and strikes.

A large part is because there are a bunch of characters I legitimately don't know what to ban against. WTF do I ban against Peach? Wario (not rainbow cruise, I WANT cruise, Dedede absolutely wrecks Wario there)?

Spoiler

Using Unity Ruleset.

Foe|Me|Strikes|CP|Ban
||Lylat Cruise/Yoshi's Island|Final Destination/Pokémon Stadium|Rainbow Cruise
||Yoshi's Island/Smashville|Castle Siege/Delfino Plaza|Smashville
||Final Destination/Smashville|Rainbow Cruise/Brinstar|Final Destination
|idk|I don't know, I'm|free at this MU
|//|Smashville/Lylat Cruise|Final Destination/Halberd|Brinstar
||Yoshi's Island/Lylat Cruise|Delfino Plaza/Castle Siege|?
||Final Destination/Smashville|Rainbow Cruise/Brinstar|Final Destination
|idk|
||
||doesn't really matter|Delfino Plaza/Castle Siege|Smashville
||
|
|idk
|
|

Really don't feel like finishing this atm.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Peach vs D3 is tough to say whats good. I would suggest pick a stage with far away blast lines it will allow you to live MUCH longer if your DI is good.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I was actually thinking Rainbow Cruise or Siege, tbh. Mostly because they're my standbys for CPing. Delfino could work but I just don't like how Peach can basically shut out D3 from getting on the moving part each time it transforms.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Seige is not too bad, as D3 has some issues on the first part. 2nd part peach can stay in the air and statues all day if she really wants to. 3rd she may have trouble koing due to blast line... but thats kinda like FD in a way.. X3

Del is tricky... each part brings its own risk and reward

RC I wouldnt suggest. Outside the boat where you can Infinite her, she has much better air mobility mainly floating where she wants, she has arguably the stage control at all times due to turnips and the ability to keep D3 out. Many plats she can use to her adv, and when the stage falls.. multi jumpers and Peach can prolong their ko. As long as you dont touch the stage even if you are at the blast line you wont star ko. Meaning if you dont think you will make it to the end.. constantly jump or in peachs case float and you wont sd. :3 I believe warios bike also works following he does not touch the ground with it.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I know about the whole upper blast zone thing.

And there are lots of walls there to infinite Peach. Not to mention I can get BAir kills retardedly early there. Also I'm not to worried about having Peach above me anymore, I can just truck right through DAir with UTilt if I'm on a platform (invincibility on hit is awesome) or UAir.

With any luck I can get a stock up on the boat (small blastzones) and get decent damage on Peach before I lose my first stock. Then, on the final top part, there's a lot Dedede can do there, CGing Peach off walkoffs being the least.

Also the first part of Siege isn't all that bad. The size can hurt because of the pressure, but autocanceled DAirs to UTilts are pretty damn good. And the third part doesn't really hurt or hinder Dedede. The second part is the best, because spending too much time on the bottom level can mean death if I grab you, and the platform layout is pretty nice. If you stick to the sides, I can hit you with minions, and possibly catch you with an UAir.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Gi, I'm at this Fest, maybe Bring Ryan with me + XP.
I'll bug Puffmaster about this >.>

 

[Gichan]

Ryan is the diddy player right? PLEASE bring him.

Anyone else coming this sat?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I am obviously.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I'll see what I can do! :3

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Hopefully I'll do better at this than the last one.

*EDIT* Would anybody mind playing a bit of Melee at this? Haven't really played in ages and need the practice.