SMASHERS UNITE! ... in Celebration. Brawl is Online, and I'm just paranoid ;)

[Hydde]

That reggie smile in the video is the best that have happened to me in the whole week!

 

[SmashChu]

I think he may online, but they didn't announce it at E3 becuase Sakurai will announce it on his own(though the website). I don't think Nintendo is dumb enough to deny this game online.

 

[Elysium]

If this petition were to result in the delay of Brawl's release, you would all die.

If the delay meant an amazing Online mode, then first we would get a look of extreme disbelief, and then we would throw our metaphorical caps in the air like Graduation.... or something similar.

 

[Hydde]

If Brawl end having a "Big online game" like reggie said........... the greatness of this game will be something not seen before in nintendo history...

I think people is not realzing this!!!!.

 

[AttackstorM]

If Brawl end having a "Big online game" like reggie said........... the greatness of this game will be something not seen before in nintendo history...

I think people is not realzing this!!!!.

exactly my friend

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

If the delay meant an amazing Online mode, then first we would get a look of extreme disbelief, and then we would throw our metaphorical caps in the air like Graduation.... or something similar.

First off, SSBB will more than likely feature online play, so this whole paranoia-based thread is pointless. Provided Nintendo does come through with online features, maintaining a solid Internet connection is no walk in the park. If you are under 18 years old and live with a parent who has a solid income to afford a sturdy, smooth connection then yeah, you will enjoy playing online with a similar demographic. However, if you are over 18 and no longer live at home, you either need to be a student (at a school with awesome connections) or be making good money to afford a fast line on top of rent, food, etc. Most pro smashers are in this age group.

Online competition will be fun for those who can participate. There will be a large number of smashers playing online. I am merely pointing out that these over-the-top dreams of playing everyone on Smashboards and hosting country-wide online tournaments will never happen. There are many like myself who have either a less-than-reliable broadband connection or even-less-reliable dial-up connection. Players travel to play Halo 2 at MLG despite XBox Live being one of the best online game services out there.

 

[Kazuya]

People do not seem to notice the difference between a man saying he would like to have online features, and an outright confirmation.

For example, I can say "I would very much like to be given sums of gold." Unfortunately, it does not guarantee it.

""My plan is to include Wi-Fi connection compatibility and online functionality. One of the primary reasons Super Smash Bros. Brawl was created was that Nintendo, when taking Wii online, wanted to have Smash Bros. to do that..."

That is the quote from Sakurai that I think most people are referencing. It is from an article dated May 10, 2006 at IGN.

It isn't an outright confirmation...plans change.

I know, lucky Sakuri said that Brawl WILL have online mode.

Check Panda's translation thread.

Honestly, be realistic here - if Brawl is SUPPOSED to compete against:

Halo 3, Tekken 6, Mass Effect, Too Human, Little Big World - then it HAS TO HAVE ONLINE PLAY.

The game WILL not be released without it, I guarantee that not only as a Games Programmer but as a normal non-paranoic human being.

 

[-sonny-]

Sorry if someone's already said this, I just really don't feel like reading through all of the posts.

I also forget the name of the person who started this topic, but I don't really agree with what you're saying at all.

Just because they don't mention it doesn't mean that the chances of it not being in Brawl are lowered. They're not saying anything on the topic of WiFi in Brawl to increase hype. This is for sure one of the most anticipated games in a PRETTY long time, so of course they're not going to go around spilling all of the big secrets so early before the game is even released! Details like online are most peoples biggest interest, so they're not going to be saying anything on it for a while.

 

[Wiseguy]

Those who don't regularily visit my Character Predictions thread may not know this about me, but I have a nasty habit of disappearing for a day or two, returning, and posting a massive wall of text as in responce to posts that were submitted in my absense. This would be one of those posts....

Masahiro Sakurai has secured a firm release date, and I do not think that he would do that if there was any wiggle room in what he has in place for the game as a whole. He and his staff have everything already planned out. They just have to follow through, tweek things a little bit, and then mass produce the game and have it shipped to stores by Dec. 2. I remember that the last update on smashbros.com before the new site was on Nov. 26 and Sakurai said that he has been working on the game for 18 months (I believe), which means as of now the game has been in development for 26 months. By December, the game will have been worked on for more than 30 months. The original smash bros. had a very small budget and was in development for less than a year. With this in mind, I believe the programmers have been trying to perfect everything so that the game is so smoothe, as well as new modes and perfecting multiplayer action. They also know that Melee was a best selling title for the gamecube, they will predict this game to be very, very popular and also to be easy potential for being the best selling title for the Wii.

A release date does not necessarily mean that a game cannot be delayed further. As I like to point out, Metroid Prime Hunters had a late 2005 release date until it was delayed for several months so that online play could be included.

My suspicion is that Nintendo is keeping quiet on this file because Sakurai's team doesn't know if they can include a online mode AND have the rest of the game perfect for the end of the year. But again, it's just a suspicion. We know very little either way at this point.

With all of this in mind, I have no doubt that Brawl will have online play. Sakurai is awesome and seems to love toying with people (have you seen last friday's post on smashbros?), so I think the reason that there is so much information being concealed is due to building up anticipation and wonder for the game.

Sakurai rocks, no doubt about it. I have no doubts that he will do everything in his power to make Brawl the best Smash yet. But I am concerned that the suits at Nintendo will decide that the game has consumed enough time and money to be a guaranteed hit, and force Sakurai's team to release the game on squedule - online or no online.

Sakuarai might love his showmanship, but Nintendo signs his paychecks and Nintendo is in the bussiness of making money. And keeping a lid on a potential killer ap for their new console when gamers are in the process of deciding which console to buy is a stupid bussiness decision, plain and simple.

what is the goal for the amount of people for the petition?

I honestly haven't decided. What do you guys think? I think if we can reach a few thousand signitures by late August it might be worth sending in. Thoughts?

That's different though. Iwata announced Super Smash Bros. 3 - as it was then called - before Sakurai was even on board. They got Sakurai back to work on it AFTER the game was announced. You cannot hold Iwata's promises against Sakurai. It isn't fair.

I don't begrudge Sakurai in the least. But when the President of Nintendo promises something, I think he should be kept to his word. Nintendo should give Sakurai all the time, money and resources he needs in order to include online multiplayer.

Also, Metroid Prime Hunters (and others) had release windows set. Not release dates. Late 2005 is not a release date. December 3, 2007 is a release date. They cannot just pull a stunt like delaying it a few weeks before. Also, Super Smash Bros. Brawl will be a big holiday title. A GIANT holiday title. You can delay something untested like Metroid Prime Hunters (which had a lot of hype but was by no means a killer app). It is different with something like Brawl. It needs to be a holiday release.

Fall 2005 is a release date, it's just a very vauge one.

There is no doubt that Nintendo would catch alot of flake for delaying their biggest game of the year, so they may very well decide to release the game on squedule - online or no online. But I think we can all agree that they they will attract far more criticiisms and negative press if they break their promise to include online multiplayer. Let's hope that cooler heads prevail.

Also, the reason we've seen so many Mario Party games since Melee's release, but Brawl has taken so long is because Mario Party games:

a) suck
b) get boring fast
c) are easy to make

It is like Starcraft. It has been out for about a decade, with only a minor expansion pack. Now, the sequel has finally been announced. Why? Because people are still playing the original.

In the same way, people are still playing Melee. So, why would they want to churn out a ****ty sequel when they can devote the time and effort to one that we will love.

I don't deny that Mario Party games are utter crap in comparison to Smash, and I'm not advocating that Nintendo start churning out half baked sequels. What I'm saying is that rather than waiste precious resourses on a half dozen crappy party games, Nintendo should have been spending the last six years on a game that actually matters: Super Smash Bros.

Xbox fans got a Halo sequel to their most beloved franchise fairly late in the console's lifespan. Gamecube owners got Mario party after Mario party after Mario Party....

Sorry, I don't mean to be a hater. I love my Gamecube and I love Nintendo. All I'm saying is that Nintendo owes it it's most loyal fans to get this game right, and that means online play.

I signed and e-mailed nintendo power! I hope this goes through, online would be awesome...no more 'sorry I can't make it this time' for tournaments...

You really think they would have online tournaments?

Not big ones. Also, I'm not really familiar with how online play works, so IDK. And you know, if a bunch of people on these forums set up a time to play or something, then maybe it could be possible. I hear something about a DS tournament for Mario Kart... it didn't seem very organized...

I just hope that searching for someone to play isn't like mario kart ds, where it just randomly finds someone. You should be able 2 scan through servers or something...

This is why even a basic online mode could rock. Through the magic of the internet, the Smash community can simply coordinate through online forums, and xreate our own timed matchups and tournaments.

I'm not sure what you are talking about....

The Tokyo Game Show is bigger than E3. Especially now that E3 is dead. IN AN INTERVIEW with Miyamoto on IGN they asked him if it was going to be online. Miyamoto said he wasn't able to make any announcements other than the release date because that is all handled by The Dojo.

Feel free to go to ign to find the same interview.

Sakurai has a deal with Nintendo giving them at The Dojo exclusive rights to announcements for the game. Unless it is news that is directly involving the publisher such as the release date.

E3 wasn't dead this year, it was just lying in the ditch bleeding, fighting for every breath...

I read the interview in question, and it basically ammounts to "no comment". Not very reassuring, in my humble opinion.

I know that Sakurai has been given unprecidented freedom in what inforamtion he released to the public. But if Nintendo really wanted to reinterate their promise to include online kultiplayer in the biggest game of the year, why would Sakurai refuse such a simple request? Sakurai likes his freedom, but I can't see him purposefully provoking the people who sign his paycheck on something so minor as this.

It seems to me that if Nintendo is keeping quiet, it's becuase they choose to do so.

Sakurai has a deal with Nintendo giving The Dojo exclusive rights to announcements for the game? You say that like Smashbros.com is a news site, and not a Nintendo owned site. SmashBros.com is used as Nintendo's essential marketing tool for Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Now that they've got the daily updates going, they've got people checking in constantly to keep tabs on their game.

It isn't an exclusive news outlet. It is their own site. They probably do not want to release anything through interviews because it makes Sakurai's little development journal (SmashBros.com) a waste of time. He has people in fits waiting for new announcements, and I am sure they can tell by the number of page views on SmashBros.com just how many people are interested in their game.

ANd yet Sakurai apparently had no problem with Reggie unveiling the release date and the 15 second trailer before the update.

I really don't see the problem. Reggie could have simply said. "We still plan to have online multiplayer in Brawl." And then Sakurai could have elaborated on the specifics in his blog when he so desired.

Honestly though, wtf have they been doing these six years while ssbm was sitting on its ***? SSBM is probably the most released title for the GC, so why wouldn't they work on it day and night for the Wii? I'm sorry, but this game will lose a majority of its appeal and one of its main selling points if online isn't in it. I mean every freaking game is online nowadays, so why shouldn't one of the most successful franchises in game history have one. If it isn't going to have online play in the year 2007 and on, either postpone until you do or just scrap the whole thing. That's how I feel about it: I don't want to be given the illusion that this game will be an online masterpiece and then when Nintendo has our attention, "umm, we were just joking about that, it will just be too hard to have one of the basic mechanics of modern gaming implemented into a state of the art and innovative game such as SSBB." I mean fighting games have been online for years on other ****ty systems, even street fighter 2 is online now, and a company such as Nintendo would be laughed out of the room not only by other companies and developers, but a large majority of its fanbase.

However, Nintendo does this kind of crap to get our attention and then either delivers and people freak or they don't and people are just like "wow, Nintendo didn't deliver again. . ." It wouldn't surprise me if they were just saying that so people get all worked up and create buzz. "Hey, Mario isn't going to be in SSBB," and then everyone is like "WTF, this game is stupid," and then they do it so everyone is happier. Negative publicity is still publicity.

I feel just as strongly as you do on this matter, though I think scrapping the entire project is bit of an exageration. Brawl will still be great if there were no online, it just wouldn't the perfect Smash Bros sequel we have been waiting 6 years for.

I hope you're right about the "bait-and-switch" conspiracy theory. However, I suspect that there is more to it than just publicity. Nintendo might be aware that the game won't be ready this year, so they put out a release date to encourage gamers to buy Wiis, then later in the year they have an announcement: "Oh, snap! We need a few more months to include online".

http://kotaku.com/gaming/clips/reggie-taunts-us-with-september-wii-surprise-282063.php

Watch the end of this new video. Notice how Reggie mentions a game coming this year that will be big online, the guy asks if he is talking about brawl, reggie just smiles.

Like I said, they CAN'T announce it. Dojo has to. Or at least give them permission to.

I can just see the phone conversations now...

Reggie: Yo Sakurai. I'm getting ready for my big E3 press conferance and I'm trying to prove Nintendo's commitment to online play. I know you're in charge of all information related to Brawl, but I was wondering if I could just drop a hint like "Brawl is online, and it's going to be fan-freaking-tastic".

Sakurai: No.

Reggie. No?

Sakurai: No.

Reggie: ... err... but this is kinda important. Brawl is our biggest game is the year and-

Sakurai: Bite me douche-bag. *Click*





As for that online game Reggie mentioned, it's probably Super Mario Strikers, which is due for release next week, I beleive.

I think this issue is being overblown. Brawl having online capabilities will not automatically unite every smasher who has an Internet connection. Take mine for example: it's relatively fast but rather inconsistent; data packets come in large spurts rather than in a smooth stream. Brawl will be a hit whether it has online play or not because the Internet as a whole SUCKS.

Brawling online might not unite all Smashers or bring World Peace, but it wouldmean that people with a solid internet connection can play Smash whenever they want, as it was meant to be played: with other human beings. To me, and many others, very important.

There probably would be, since I've seen a few online SSB64 tournaments via Kaillera. Plus Brawl will probably be played more, so I wouldn't be surprised if we got massive numbers of tournies online=several every week.

Maybe not like a tourney mode, but like one organized over the SWF or something. And if there was a tourney thing, Sakurai would be doing the more heavier players a awsome new online feature. All I need is functional online, and online confirmed and I'm good. Ranking systems and online tournies aren't needs, but wants that would be awsome. Hopefully it doesn't lag TOO bad...

QFT

Hello, I'm a new user here but your thread has compelled me to act on this cause. I took the liberty to submit this thread to www.Digg.com, a popular news site that you might have heard of. By "digging" this thread you can get this message out to the millions ( maybe not millions but a lot) of digg users.

This can possibly be your third phase. All you have to do is register a Digg account and digg this article: http://digg.com/nintendo_wii/Nintendo_Fans_Unite_Help_us_get_Super_Smash_Brothers_Brawl_online

I hope this helps the cause.

So far 6 diggs... we need more people!

That is the best suggestion I've heard in a while! Gentlemen, we have our Phase 3. I'll update the original post ASAP.

It'll be online, Sakuri said so months ago - so why the thread?

Sakurai said MAYBE there will be online:

"One of the primary reasons that this game was even created was because Nintendo staff said that when taking the console online, probably the best title to do so would be Super Smash Bros. Because of that, we're going to try very hard to do that. But, at the same time, I think it would be a lot of work for us to allow four players to play simultaneously and try to find out who's number one. So, we're mainly focusing on bringing multiple people together to play simultaneously in perhaps new and different ways."

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle...4ZSbL-W-mLxzmPYn0SKZJccHvdv-Atby&page=archive

I will make you all a deal. If SSBB doesn't have online multiplayer I will give everyone in this thread $30. And if it does, everyone in this thread gives me $3. Deal?

Sure thing. Just send me the $30,000 and I'll refund you once you win the bet.

almost 300 on the petition!...is the goal 500-1000?

I'd say 1000 at least, but that's just me.

Im sure sakurai knows what hes doing. He probably already has Online mapped out in his head. Sakurai thinks for the people.

I trust Sakurai, but I'm worried that Nintendo won't give him the time he needs in irder to include online.

If this petition were to result in the delay of Brawl's release, you would all die.

You'd have to catch me first! *runs away*

That reggie smile in the video is the best that have happened to me in the whole week!

Really? You must be having a rough week...

A smile is just a smile, people. Not a confirmation. Now if he had winked too...

I think he may online, but they didn't announce it at E3 becuase Sakurai will announce it on his own(though the website). I don't think Nintendo is dumb enough to deny this game online.

Let's hope your right.

If the delay meant an amazing Online mode, then first we would get a look of extreme disbelief, and then we would throw our metaphorical caps in the air like Graduation.... or something similar.

I'll have my metaphorical cap ready, just in case.

If Brawl end having a "Big online game" like reggie said........... the greatness of this game will be something not seen before in nintendo history...

I think people is not realzing this!!!!.

"Greatness of this game will be something not seen before in nintendo history"? I don't remember Reggie saying that, though it would be true in the case of Brawl.

First off, SSBB will more than likely feature online play, so this whole paranoia-based thread is pointless. Provided Nintendo does come through with online features, maintaining a solid Internet connection is no walk in the park. If you are under 18 years old and live with a parent who has a solid income to afford a sturdy, smooth connection then yeah, you will enjoy playing online with a similar demographic. However, if you are over 18 and no longer live at home, you either need to be a student (at a school with awesome connections) or be making good money to afford a fast line on top of rent, food, etc. Most pro smashers are in this age group.

Online competition will be fun for those who can participate. There will be a large number of smashers playing online. I am merely pointing out that these over-the-top dreams of playing everyone on Smashboards and hosting country-wide online tournaments will never happen. There are many like myself who have either a less-than-reliable broadband connection or even-less-reliable dial-up connection. Players travel to play Halo 2 at MLG despite XBox Live being one of the best online game services out there.

Pro gamers are still the minority, last time I checked.

Also, I know plenty of university students who can afford rent, food, and a monthly subscription to World of Warcraft. My point being that

I know, lucky Sakuri said that Brawl WILL have online mode.

Check Panda's translation thread.

Honestly, be realistic here - if Brawl is SUPPOSED to compete against:

Halo 3, Tekken 6, Mass Effect, Too Human, Little Big World - then it HAS TO HAVE ONLINE PLAY.

The game WILL not be released without it, I guarantee that not only as a Games Programmer but as a normal non-paranoic human being.

I've read Saumerai Panda's thread. All it says is that Sakurai will try to include online. And that was the last we've heard of it for over a year.

I agree that Nintendo must include online if they want to compete with Microsoft and Sony. But I'm far too paranoid not to consider the possibilty that Nintnedo could make this huge mistake, given theiur still shaky track record when it comes to online gaming.

edit:

Sorry if someone's already said this, I just really don't feel like reading through all of the posts.

I also forget the name of the person who started this topic, but I don't really agree with what you're saying at all.

Just because they don't mention it doesn't mean that the chances of it not being in Brawl are lowered. They're not saying anything on the topic of WiFi in Brawl to increase hype. This is for sure one of the most anticipated games in a PRETTY long time, so of course they're not going to go around spilling all of the big secrets so early before the game is even released! Details like online are most peoples biggest interest, so they're not going to be saying anything on it for a while.

Nintendo already spilled the beans two years ago when they announced that the game was online. So, why wouldn't they want to at least restate this fact at their beiigest press conferance of the year?

Anyway, of course this doesn't prove that Brawl WON'T have online. You can't prove a negative. But I personally think that Nintendo's silence on this matter is a cause of great concern to the entire Smash community. Feel free to disagree if you wish.

And the name's "Wiseguy". W-I-S-E-G-U-Y

 

[-sonny-]

Nintendo already spilled the beans two years ago when they announced that the game was online. So, why wouldn't they want to at least restate this fact at their beiigest press conferance of the year?

Anyway, of course this doesn't prove that Brawl WON'T have online. You can't prove a negative. But I personally think that Nintendo's silence on this matter is a cause of great concern to the entire Smash community. Feel free to disagree if you wish.

And the name's "Wiseguy". W-I-S-E-G-U-Y

Meh, well do whatever you feel to increase the chances, anyways

I just think that "in jeopardy" is a bit of an overstatement.

Okay Wiseguy. I just want you to know Wiseguy, that I shall never forget the name Wiseguy, since you so kindly spelt it out for me and all

 

[180OP]

if brawl isn't online i will create a iwata mii and hit it with my bat

ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Too funny. Good one jack. Whereever you are on this board.

 

[Wiseguy]

Meh, well do whatever you feel to increase the chances, anyways

I just think that "in jeopardy" is a bit of an overstatement.

Okay Wiseguy. I just want you to know Wiseguy, that I shall never forget the name Wiseguy, since you so kindly spelt it out for me and all

Good to know.

Maybe I am overreacting, but that's fine. If Brawl's online is revealed in tonights update, I'll be the happiest guy in the world.

 

[Truegamer#1]

Good to know.

Maybe I am overreacting, but that's fine. If Brawl's online is revealed in tonights update, I'll be the happiest guy in the world.

what makes you say that???

 

[Problem2]

As good as Brawl is going to be, it will be at least 10 times greater with Brawl. Not everyone has access to friends who share the same amount of passion for the Smash Bros series as they do, so with Online, hell, at least with Friend codes, it would be better.

Of course though, the chocolate syrup on top of the ice cream would be the ability to customize your rules or at least have 1vs1 - no items option.

@Wiseguy: I believe the online relations will either be released at a particular event, or close to Brawl's release.

 

[Wiseguy]

what makes you say that???

Nothing whatsoever. I was just hypothetically speaking....

As good as Brawl is going to be, it will be at least 10 times greater with Brawl. Not everyone has access to friends who share the same amount of passion for the Smash Bros series as they do, so with Online, hell, at least with Friend codes, it would be better.

Of course though, the chocolate syrup on top of the ice cream would be the ability to customize your rules or at least have 1vs1 - no items option.

@Wiseguy: I believe the online relations will either be released at a particular event, or close to Brawl's release.

I agree completely, Problem2. Online would make an already great game even better.

Yeah, an announcement on an actual event is probably the most likely at this point - but Sakurai could still surprise us with an Dojo Update. That is, if the game is still online....

 

[AttackstorM]

yea i think 1000 would be a great goal

 

[Wiseguy]

yea i think 1000 would be a great goal

Great. a thousand it is. But if we start getting some serious momentum, we might want to hold off for an even bigger total. Let's just see how it goes...

 

[Joe_Sumo]

You should tell everyone to have a link to this thread in there sig like you do

 

[Joe_Sumo]

Attackstorm i stole yer sig for the cause lol

 

[GraniteJJ]

I know, lucky Sakuri said that Brawl WILL have online mode.

Check Panda's translation thread.

Honestly, be realistic here - if Brawl is SUPPOSED to compete against:

Halo 3, Tekken 6, Mass Effect, Too Human, Little Big World - then it HAS TO HAVE ONLINE PLAY.

The game WILL not be released without it, I guarantee that not only as a Games Programmer but as a normal non-paranoic human being.

That's actually not true. Sakurai's actual comments - even in the translation thread - indicate a desire to incorporate online. It is Panda himself who says he assumes this means online will be present.

"TRANSLATION: Sakurai says that to be able to put online battles in the game, there are many high hurdles they must overcome. And if they are able to overcome these hurdles, Sakurai states (verbatim) " 'The winner is great [Also read as celebrated, famous, etc.]' kind of system is not planned to be added."

THIS IS PANDA TALKING: I'm assuming Sakurai means he's just going to add basic online functionality to the game. He also says his reason is to keep the game fun for the same reasons that melee was fun, or something along those lines. This doesn't mean that wins/losses won't be recorded, but we probably wont be seeing any rankings."

A release date does not necessarily mean that a game cannot be delayed further. As I like to point out, Metroid Prime Hunters had a late 2005 release date until it was delayed for several months so that online play could be included.

Again, you are confusing a release window with a release date. If someone says it is scheduled for a Q1 release date, it can easily be pushed back to Q2 or further, because no commitment has been made with the distributors and retailers. However, when a firm release date is set (like December 3rd), then retailers and distributors have to ensure that orders for product are in, in store advertisements need to be made notifying customers of the sale (and circulars/flyers are printed up two weeks in advance), and commercials have to start airing. You cannot just get to that point and delay something. Besides, I could not see them delaying SSBB away from the holiday season. It's suicide.

And keeping a lid on a potential killer ap for their new console when gamers are in the process of deciding which console to buy is a stupid bussiness decision, plain and simple.

Actually, it is called building hype. They have certainly got you and 300+ people who signed your petition chomping at the bit to learn new information.

I don't begrudge Sakurai in the least. But when the President of Nintendo promises something, I think he should be kept to his word. Nintendo should give Sakurai all the time, money and resources he needs in order to include online multiplayer.

It was an empty promise. How many times have we seen announcements made by the bigwigs

Fall 2005 is a release date, it's just a very vauge one.

There is no doubt that Nintendo would catch alot of flake for delaying their biggest game of the year, so they may very well decide to release the game on squedule - online or no online. But I think we can all agree that they they will attract far more criticiisms and negative press if they break their promise to include online multiplayer. Let's hope that cooler heads prevail.

As said above, Fall 2005 is not a release date. It is a release window. A release date, by the very definition of the term, has to be a date. i.e. March 31st or September 2nd.

Also, show me the quote where online was promised. All I see is people saying that they would like to include it.

I don't deny that Mario Party games are utter crap in comparison to Smash, and I'm not advocating that Nintendo start churning out half baked sequels. What I'm saying is that rather than waiste precious resourses on a half dozen crappy party games, Nintendo should have been spending the last six years on a game that actually matters: Super Smash Bros.

For someone who earlier in this same post is commenting on sound business models, your business savvy seems to be lacking.

What you fail to realise about Mario Party games is the following:

cheap to develop + insanely popular = huge profits!!!

It is games like Mario Party that provide Nintendo development teams with the operating budgets to make big games like Smash Bros. So, you can go ahead and insult the quality of the games, but do not act like Nintendo doesn't need them.

Xbox fans got a Halo sequel to their most beloved franchise fairly late in the console's lifespan. Gamecube owners got Mario party after Mario party after Mario Party....

Halo is a big budget game, and the biggest thing to come out of Bungie in ages. Halo is a big deal. You do not rush something like that.

This is why even a basic online mode could rock. Through the magic of the internet, the Smash community can simply coordinate through online forums, and xreate our own timed matchups and tournaments.

The problem here is that the 'Smash community' is the minority. The average folk is the majority. I am in university right now, living in a dormitory building with 60 people. 80% of them play Smash. Only one of those people participates in the whole tournament scene. And it isn't even me. If you think that Nintendo is going to waste their time on a feature that a few people are going to use, forget about it. It is either go big or go home.

ANd yet Sakurai apparently had no problem with Reggie unveiling the release date and the 15 second trailer before the update.

I really don't see the problem. Reggie could have simply said. "We still plan to have online multiplayer in Brawl." And then Sakurai could have elaborated on the specifics in his blog when he so desired.

The release date involves distribution, which is more Reggie's department than Sakurai's. Also, that trailer wasn't anything much. The 15 second trailer was just something to have on the big screen during Reggie's brief announcement. It wasn't important at all. They likely only added it to the Dojo site to increase traffic.

I hope you're right about the "bait-and-switch" conspiracy theory. However, I suspect that there is more to it than just publicity. Nintendo might be aware that the game won't be ready this year, so they put out a release date to encourage gamers to buy Wiis, then later in the year they have an announcement: "Oh, snap! We need a few more months to include online".

No. It'll be a bait and switch. I cannot see Nintendo delaying one of their biggest titles past the holiday season.

As for that online game Reggie mentioned, it's probably Super Mario Strikers, which is due for release next week, I beleive.

Strikers is out soon. And people know it is online. Why would he refrain from mentioning the title if everyone can fill in the blanks.

Brawling online might not unite all Smashers or bring World Peace, but it wouldmean that people with a solid internet connection can play Smash whenever they want, as it was meant to be played: with other human beings. To me, and many others, very important.

Why can't anyone play with people in real life anymore? Don't you have three friends who can get together on a Friday night and play some games? Hell. Me and my friends used to have weekly game nights (before we moved to separate parts of the country for school).

You can't prove a negative.

Sure you can. It's called a counter-proof.

 

[Joe_Sumo]

sig test
sry

 

[AttackstorM]

GraniteJJ is playing devil's advocate lol...

 

[Haruno Kotetsu]

i signed the petition and im sending an email.

online play was my biggest thing to look forward to with brawl.
if it dosent have it, a lot of us'll be enraged about it, if not all of us, and i think they'll get the message. moneys the factor in companies like Nintendo.

 

[Wiseguy]

Check it out people. The new issue of Nintendo Power is completed:

http://nintendopower.com/home

On the cover, it clearly says that they have new Brawl info. Is it related to our little campaign? I doubt it, but I'd be surprised if we don't see a responce to our e-mail campaign in Pulse. As soon as my copy arrives, I'll update you guys on any news.

You should tell everyone to have a link to this thread in there sig like you do

Hmm... good idea. I'll make a note of it in my first post.

Again, you are confusing a release window with a release date. If someone says it is scheduled for a Q1 release date, it can easily be pushed back to Q2 or further, because no commitment has been made with the distributors and retailers. However, when a firm release date is set (like December 3rd), then retailers and distributors have to ensure that orders for product are in, in store advertisements need to be made notifying customers of the sale (and circulars/flyers are printed up two weeks in advance), and commercials have to start airing. You cannot just get to that point and delay something. Besides, I could not see them delaying SSBB away from the holiday season. It's suicide.

Oh goodie. A quote war...

I know the different between a broad release window and a specific release date. I will conceed that it is far more unusual for a game company to delay a game after stating a release date, but it does happen. Prime 3 was delayed from mid August until late August, for example.

And actually, delaying Brawl until after the holiday might be smart. By late November, gamers will have already bought a Wii in anticipation for Brawl and most likely have purchased Prime 3 and Galaxy - and which point Nintendo could pull a bait-and-switch delaying Brawl a few more months so that they can make the game perfect. This would have the benefit of filling the inevitable 2008 drought.

So again: they COULD do it. But it's rare to delay after a firm release date has been established.

Actually, it is called building hype. They have certainly got you and 300+ people who signed your petition chomping at the bit to learn new information.

Failing to mention online is not building hype, it's shooting them in the foot. If anything, Nintendo's misstep has likely caused some people to question whether to buy a Wii at all.

It was an empty promise. How many times have we seen announcements made by the bigwigs

Too bad. If Nintendo is going back on a promise as important as this, then gamers have a right to know.

As said above, Fall 2005 is not a release date. It is a release window. A release date, by the very definition of the term, has to be a date. i.e. March 31st or September 2nd.

Also, show me the quote where online was promised. All I see is people saying that they would like to include it.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/670/670552p1.html

For someone who earlier in this same post is commenting on sound business models, your business savvy seems to be lacking.

What you fail to realise about Mario Party games is the following:

cheap to develop + insanely popular = huge profits!!!

It is games like Mario Party that provide Nintendo development teams with the operating budgets to make big games like Smash Bros. So, you can go ahead and insult the quality of the games, but do not act like Nintendo doesn't need them.

Thye might have made a quick buck, but I'd say it hurt Gamecube sales in the lonng run. A Melee sequel late in the Cube's lifecycle would have been a huge system selller, which would have been a better bussiness decision.

And thank you, I will insult the quality of the Mario Party games. They take suckage to whole new levels.

Halo is a big budget game, and the biggest thing to come out of Bungie in ages. Halo is a big deal. You do not rush something like that.

They didn't rush it, but they did have time to make 2 sequels in the last 6 years. Melee has sold better than the original Halo, so why has Nintendo taken so long at delivering a sequel?

Aanyways, my point is that they HAVE taken this long, and they owe it to Nintendo fans to make it perfect - and perfect means online.

The problem here is that the 'Smash community' is the minority. The average folk is the majority. I am in university right now, living in a dormitory building with 60 people. 80% of them play Smash. Only one of those people participates in the whole tournament scene. And it isn't even me. If you think that Nintendo is going to waste their time on a feature that a few people are going to use, forget about it. It is either go big or go home.

The average gamer might not care about full tournamnets, but judging by the millions of DS wi-fi users, I'd say that a large number of them would appreciate the ability to play against randomly matched opponents in Brawl, even if the options are limited.

The release date involves distribution, which is more Reggie's department than Sakurai's. Also, that trailer wasn't anything much. The 15 second trailer was just something to have on the big screen during Reggie's brief announcement. It wasn't important at all. They likely only added it to the Dojo site to increase traffic.

My point is that Reggie unveiled a piece of new Brawl info before the Dojo update - and the sky did not fall, there were no riots in the streets, the sujn rose the next day and pie still tasted good.

There was NOTHING stopping Nintendo from revealing online multiplayer in Brawl. They did not mention it becuase they deliberately chose not to.

No. It'll be a bait and switch. I cannot see Nintendo delaying one of their biggest titles past the holiday season.

Uh-huh.

Strikers is out soon. And people know it is online. Why would he refrain from mentioning the title if everyone can fill in the blanks.

Because he felt like it?

Why can't anyone play with people in real life anymore? Don't you have three friends who can get together on a Friday night and play some games? Hell. Me and my friends used to have weekly game nights (before we moved to separate parts of the country for school).

Sure I do. My buds still meet up every week for some quality Smash time. But let's say I feel like playing some 4 player free for all matches against 3 human opponents tonight at 3:00 am. With online, I could just fire up the Wii and make it happen. Moat console owners have that kind of freedom with their multiplayer games. Why can't Wii owners?

Sure you can. It's called a counter-proof.

Your right, obviously. But with no real evidence either way, it's alot harder to prove a negative.

 

[GraniteJJ]

GraniteJJ is playing devil's advocate lol...

Sort of. I want to see online in SSBB as much as the next guy. And some points in here I agree with. Some are just flat out wrong. I don't like the statement of false comments such as "Sakurai promised us with a blood oath that there would be online." Things like that don't sit right with me.

Oh goodie. A quote war...

I know the different between a broad release window and a specific release date. I will conceed that it is far more unusual for a game company to delay a game after stating a release date, but it does happen. Prime 3 was delayed from mid August until late August, for example.

And actually, delaying Brawl until after the holiday might be smart. By late November, gamers will have already bought a Wii in anticipation for Brawl and most likely have purchased Prime 3 and Galaxy - and which point Nintendo could pull a bait-and-switch delaying Brawl a few more months so that they can make the game perfect. This would have the benefit of filling the inevitable 2008 drought.

So again: they COULD do it. But it's rare to delay after a firm release date has been established.

Don't you think that the people who want to buy Metroid Prime 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are the same group that want Super Smash Bros. Brawl? I don't think you need to trick people into buying a Wii by enticing them with SSBB. If they are going to be enticed by SSBB, they are the same crowd to get enticed by MP3 and SMG.

Failing to mention online is not building hype, it's shooting them in the foot. If anything, Nintendo's misstep has likely caused some people to question whether to buy a Wii at all.

No. They are building hype. You don't think that daily weekday updates at the Smash Bros. Dojo site is for the purposes of building hype? Online could easily be one of those big announcements that they have planned between now and the intended release date. And by having everyone dying to know, they are definitely building hype. The more you want to know, the more you start asking questions. The more questions you ask that - say - turn up in Nintendo Power, the more the common folk start to ask the same questions. But the point is, people are hearing ABOUT Super Smash Bros. Brawl through conversation somehow. And regardless of whether it is the best way to hype something, it is still generating a buzz about the game.

If they release all the information at once, it would destroy them. Let us say that, hypothetically, Sakurai just comes out with a press release providing a detailed list of characters, assist trophies, usable pokemon and items, and stages right now. And he confirms online. All in one press release. For a week, it would be featured on GameTab, IGN, Joystiq, Gamespot, etc, etc. as the biggest story. 'We know all there is about Brawl. Come in and see.' And gamers like you would be happy.

But do you know what happens after that?

Satisfied with knowing everything, people stop talking about it. When people stop talking about it, it no longer has top of mind awareness, which is an extremely valuable marketing ploy. If people are thinking about it, first and foremost, all the time, you are going to get more people buying it. So, by releasing information slowly, and having people like you and others on this form creating a 20 page long thread for every measly update they feed you, they are ensuring that no one is ever going to stop thinking about their game.

That is the hype machine.

Too bad. If Nintendo is going back on a promise as important as this, then gamers have a right to know.

I'm not sure what fantasy world you're living in, but consumers do not have that kind of right when it comes to a company. We have a right to know if the product is unsafe, and we have a right to know if it meets all quality assurance standards. That's about it. Otherwise, purchasing or not purchasing a product is entirely up to the consumer's discretion, and the company does not have to promise you or tell you anything.

As a courtesy, sure, it would be nice for Nintendo to tell us about online. But then...see the hype machine above.

Better yet, this new Revolution Smash Bros. will take advantage of the console's Wi-Fi capabilities for online play out of the box.

Again, this promise was made by Iwata's announcement, not Sakurai. Furthermore, it isn't even a quote. This is paraphrased. You do not know if Iwata actually said, "We'd like to implement online into one of our greatest franchises" and then Matt C. sitting in the front row exploded all over himself and scribbled on his notepad "Online will be in Brawl."

If you had a quote attributed to Sakurai saying online would be included, it would be different. The media cannot attribute a quote to someone who did not say it. They would have to issue and apology and a retraction, and something there are larger penaltities for their holding companies (i.e., whoever owns IGN gets fined).

The problem with all mentions of online are:
i) They are paraphrased, and we have no idea what was really said.
ii) They are promised by Iwata, who does not understand the complexity of the development of the game.
iii) They are Sakurai saying he would like online to be implemented, but there are hurdles to overcome.

If you can find a VALID quote (a condition that should have been made earlier) guaranteeing online, then I will easily concede the point. It was not promised. It has been rumoured, at best.

[They] might have made a quick buck, but I'd say it hurt Gamecube sales in the lonng run. A Melee sequel late in the Cube's lifecycle would have been a huge system selller, which would have been a better bussiness decision.

And thank you, I will insult the quality of the Mario Party games. They take suckage to whole new levels.

You missed the point that titles like Mario Party generate an operating budget for other titles. You cannot keep cranking out A-list games without a few B-list games in between.

Also, there is no way Mario Party games hurt Gamecube system sales. What hurt Gamecube system sales was that they only had an A-list title every 6 months. What they needed was for Wind Waker to arrive earlier, another Zelda title on the Wind Waker engine to follow, and to generate some new IPs. Look at the success of Pikmin. They needed more of that to keep the Gamecube afloat.

Don't attribute the floundering death of the Gamecube to the wrong causes. Mario Party games appeal to a broader market than even Smash Bros. because you draw in little kids through to adults, and even get in some hardcore, whereas Smash Bros. never draws in the kids. The bottom line is that Mario Party games make money. Lots of money. Because they are quick, simple, fun. These provided Nintendo with an operating budget to make other games. They were a good thing.

They didn't rush it, but they did have time to make 2 sequels in the last 6 years. Melee has sold better than the original Halo, so why has Nintendo taken so long at delivering a sequel?

Aanyways, my point is that they HAVE taken this long, and they owe it to Nintendo fans to make it perfect - and perfect means online.

Never assume that they owe anything to fans. It is a business, not a charity.

Also, Super Smash Bros is a system seller. You've touched on that point yourself. People buy systems for it. Do you remember how expensive the Gamecube was when it was first released? The price point was initially pretty **** high. At the end of its life cycle, you could pick one up for under a hundred bucks. What would be the benefit to pouring so much money into a high profile game like Smash Bros. AT THE END OF A LIFE CYCLE.

Here is the problem with the end of a consoles life cycle: they are gearing up for their next-gen console release.

So then, you have to ask yourself, why would they waste a game like Smash Bros. on the Gamecube when they can put more work into it, and release it as a system seller on the next system. It is just good business. Having two fighters on the same system with the same basic fighting engine would have made us all say "What's the point in getting the second one, I already have this one." Halo and Halo 2 at least had online play to differentiate them. No such distinction could have occured between SSBM and SSBM2.

My point is that Reggie unveiled a piece of new Brawl info before the Dojo update - and the sky did not fall, there were no riots in the streets, the sujn rose the next day and pie still tasted good.

There was NOTHING stopping Nintendo from revealing online multiplayer in Brawl. They did not mention it becuase they deliberately chose not to.

I already addressed this. The release date is a publishing concern, not a development. Reggie released the only information he would be allowed to release (except maybe the box art).

Anything concerning the game comes from the Dojo: see hype machine.

Because he felt like it?

Terrible answer.

Sure I do. My buds still meet up every week for some quality Smash time. But let's say I feel like playing some 4 player free for all matches against 3 human opponents tonight at 3:00 am. With online, I could just fire up the Wii and make it happen. Moat console owners have that kind of freedom with their multiplayer games. Why can't Wii owners?

Don't you ever play for such a long time that you eventually get tired of playing? I mean, I love Smash Bros. as much as the next guy. But I prefer to play more than just the one game. It starts to become less fun as you desensitize yourself with it.

Also, how old are you? I mean...I don't know how you can stand to be up at 3AM playing games without worrying about what effects it will have on your schooling/job/family life/etc.

 

[Wiseguy]

Sort of. I want to see online in SSBB as much as the next guy. And some points in here I agree with. Some are just flat out wrong. I don't like the statement of false comments such as "Sakurai promised us with a blood oath that there would be online." Things like that don't sit right with me.

There was no blood oath. But they he did pinky-swear each and every Smash Bros fan personally.

Don't you think that the people who want to buy Metroid Prime 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are the same group that want Super Smash Bros. Brawl? I don't think you need to trick people into buying a Wii by enticing them with SSBB. If they are going to be enticed by SSBB, they are the same crowd to get enticed by MP3 and SMG.

It depends. I love Metroid and Mario Nintendo games, but there's no way I would have bought Nintendo's latest system for either of those games. Brawl was my reason for the purchse. maybe others feel the same way.

No. They are building hype. You don't think that daily weekday updates at the Smash Bros. Dojo site is for the purposes of building hype? Online could easily be one of those big announcements that they have planned between now and the intended release date. And by having everyone dying to know, they are definitely building hype. The more you want to know, the more you start asking questions. The more questions you ask that - say - turn up in Nintendo Power, the more the common folk start to ask the same questions. But the point is, people are hearing ABOUT Super Smash Bros. Brawl through conversation somehow. And regardless of whether it is the best way to hype something, it is still generating a buzz about the game.

If they release all the information at once, it would destroy them. Let us say that, hypothetically, Sakurai just comes out with a press release providing a detailed list of characters, assist trophies, usable pokemon and items, and stages right now. And he confirms online. All in one press release. For a week, it would be featured on GameTab, IGN, Joystiq, Gamespot, etc, etc. as the biggest story. 'We know all there is about Brawl. Come in and see.' And gamers like you would be happy.

But do you know what happens after that?

Satisfied with knowing everything, people stop talking about it. When people stop talking about it, it no longer has top of mind awareness, which is an extremely valuable marketing ploy. If people are thinking about it, first and foremost, all the time, you are going to get more people buying it. So, by releasing information slowly, and having people like you and others on this form creating a 20 page long thread for every measly update they feed you, they are ensuring that no one is ever going to stop thinking about their game.

That is the hype machine.

The Dojo updates are a great way of building hype, but failing to mention online play in Brawl was not. After the Nintendo Press Conferance, gaming pundits on 1up.com, ign.com, thewiire.com had some harsh criticisms for Nintendo - some stating their belief that Brawl most likely would not be online (though the ign crew is still pretty optimistic). That's not the kind of publicity they want. A simple reconfirmation that Brawl is online would not have cost them a thing and would have generated plenty of POSITIVE hype. Then they could blow the lid off of the nitty gritty details at a later date to continue feeding the hype machine.

We can disagree on this, but I strongly think that Nintendo missed an opportunity at E3. Maybe it's all fitting into some master plan, but I'm just not seeing it.

I'm not sure what fantasy world you're living in, but consumers do not have that kind of right when it comes to a company. We have a right to know if the product is unsafe, and we have a right to know if it meets all quality assurance standards. That's about it. Otherwise, purchasing or not purchasing a product is entirely up to the consumer's discretion, and the company does not have to promise you or tell you anything.

As a courtesy, sure, it would be nice for Nintendo to tell us about online. But then...see the hype machine above.

Technically you are right. But when the president of Nintendo promises something this important to Nintendo fans, I think they should either live up to their word or have the decensy to admit that plans have changed. A disappointed Nintendo fan is a rare breed, but Nintendo will hear from alot of them if everyone buys Brawl only to discover that the online mode is MIA.

Again, this promise was made by Iwata's announcement, not Sakurai. Furthermore, it isn't even a quote. This is paraphrased. You do not know if Iwata actually said, "We'd like to implement online into one of our greatest franchises" and then Matt C. sitting in the front row exploded all over himself and scribbled on his notepad "Online will be in Brawl."

Picky, picky. I watched the press conferance live in 2005, and I clearly remeber that online play in the next Smash was specifically promised. If it matters to you, you can dig around Gamespot's E3 2005 coverage and watch it yourself.

If you had a quote attributed to Sakurai saying online would be included, it would be different. The media cannot attribute a quote to someone who did not say it. They would have to issue and apology and a retraction, and something there are larger penaltities for their holding companies (i.e., whoever owns IGN gets fined).

The problem with all mentions of online are:
i) They are paraphrased, and we have no idea what was really said.
ii) They are promised by Iwata, who does not understand the complexity of the development of the game.
iii) They are Sakurai saying he would like online to be implemented, but there are hurdles to overcome.

If you can find a VALID quote (a condition that should have been made earlier) guaranteeing online, then I will easily concede the point. It was not promised. It has been rumoured, at best.

Again, I don't hold anything against Sakurai or his team. But I do hold Nintendo's executive branch to their word. Online play in Smash was promised, and they should either give Sakurai the time he needs to make it happen or come clean and say that plans have changed.

Unless, of course, online is in the works and still under raps. Then I won't hold anything against Nintendo for building suspense. I just somehow doubt that is the case.

If you want to beleive I a wrong, that is your right. It doesn't really bother me.

You missed the point that titles like Mario Party generate an operating budget for other titles. You cannot keep cranking out A-list games without a few B-list games in between.

Also, there is no way Mario Party games hurt Gamecube system sales. What hurt Gamecube system sales was that they only had an A-list title every 6 months. What they needed was for Wind Waker to arrive earlier, another Zelda title on the Wind Waker engine to follow, and to generate some new IPs. Look at the success of Pikmin. They needed more of that to keep the Gamecube afloat.

Don't attribute the floundering death of the Gamecube to the wrong causes. Mario Party games appeal to a broader market than even Smash Bros. because you draw in little kids through to adults, and even get in some hardcore, whereas Smash Bros. never draws in the kids. The bottom line is that Mario Party games make money. Lots of money. Because they are quick, simple, fun. These provided Nintendo with an operating budget to make other games. They were a good thing.

I don't blame Mario party for the Gamecube's fall, but the lack of a Melee sequel. I just chose the Party games as an example. All I'm saying is that Nintedno fans have waited a long time for this game, and Nintendo must deliver. That's all.

Never assume that they owe anything to fans. It is a business, not a charity.

Also, Super Smash Bros is a system seller. You've touched on that point yourself. People buy systems for it. Do you remember how expensive the Gamecube was when it was first released? The price point was initially pretty **** high. At the end of its life cycle, you could pick one up for under a hundred bucks. What would be the benefit to pouring so much money into a high profile game like Smash Bros. AT THE END OF A LIFE CYCLE.

Here is the problem with the end of a consoles life cycle: they are gearing up for their next-gen console release.

So then, you have to ask yourself, why would they waste a game like Smash Bros. on the Gamecube when they can put more work into it, and release it as a system seller on the next system. It is just good business. Having two fighters on the same system with the same basic fighting engine would have made us all say "What's the point in getting the second one, I already have this one." Halo and Halo 2 at least had online play to differentiate them. No such distinction could have occured between SSBM and SSBM2.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It doesn't really matter now. What's done is done.

Terrible answer.

Prove me wrong.

Don't you ever play for such a long time that you eventually get tired of playing? I mean, I love Smash Bros. as much as the next guy. But I prefer to play more than just the one game. It starts to become less fun as you desensitize yourself with it.

Also, how old are you? I mean...I don't know how you can stand to be up at 3AM playing games without worrying about what effects it will have on your schooling/job/family life/etc.

I personally never get tired of Smash, but that's just me.

I'm a 19 year old university student. I don't play games at 3am, I was just illustrating a point: that online play allows players to enjoy their favorite game on their terms, whenever they want.

I've gotta jet. I'll continue this discussion tonight.

Wiseguy out.

 

[Elysium]

Playing Video games at 3 am doesn't really effect your life. I do it, and I hold a college education, family life, and social life. Though Thats really the only time I play games because I usually get the closing shifts at work so I don't get home til after midnight and I want to sit down and play some games.
No doubt that if we get online for Brawl, many of us will be up that late playing to either make up for time zones or just because it rocks that much.
Oh and Smash can get boring if your playing by yourself for an extended period of time. If your playing with a group of buddies though it rarely gets boring. At least thats my experience with it.

 

[GraniteJJ]

It depends. I love Metroid and Mario Nintendo games, but there's no way I would have bought Nintendo's latest system for either of those games. Brawl was my reason for the purchse. maybe others feel the same way.

There is no way I would justify a 300 dollar purchase for just Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It is a great game...but I cannot imagine devoting that money to a system for a single game. I bought it for Twilight Princess, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, SSBB, Mario Kart, Resident Evil: UC, and the inevitable announcement of Pikmin 3.

Dear God, there had better be a Pikmin 3.

Maybe it's all fitting into some master plan, but I'm just not seeing it.

I think that is the definition of a master plan. If you could see exactly what their master plan was, it wouldn't be very masterful.

I still maintain the opinion that it is part of the hype machine. I mean, come on. They haven't re-announced Snake and Metaknight yet on the Dojo site. But we know they haven't been quietly removed from the game. Have a little faith.

Technically you are right. But when the president of Nintendo promises something this important to Nintendo fans, I think they should either live up to their word or have the decensy to admit that plans have changed. A disappointed Nintendo fan is a rare breed, but Nintendo will hear from alot of them if everyone buys Brawl only to discover that the online mode is MIA.

People wont be able to buy Brawl and only then find out that online is missing. They have to advertise on the package for the same reason that the ESRB affixes a disclaimer at the very start of the game that experience may change during online play. They have to tell you.

Picky, picky. I watched the press conferance live in 2005, and I clearly remeber that online play in the next Smash was specifically promised. If it matters to you, you can dig around Gamespot's E3 2005 coverage and watch it yourself.

It isn't being picky. It is holding people to their word. A lot of people diss politicians for not fulfilling their campaign committments. The things they outline in a campaign are not guarantees that "this will get done". They are a list of goals that the party has that they will implement if feasible, and people vote for them on the basis of their intentions. Unfortunately, time and money do not always allow for all promises to be fulfilled. You cannot hold that against people.

Also, you're the one trying to prove that the promise was made. Therefore, burden of the proof falls on you, not me. I'm willing to do fact checking to see if what you bring up is true, but I'm not going to go hunting through old press releases and news articles looking for something to back YOU up. That's not how it works. That would be like a defence attorney arguing for why his client should go to jail.

Again, I don't hold anything against Sakurai or his team. But I do hold Nintendo's executive branch to their word. Online play in Smash was promised, and they should either give Sakurai the time he needs to make it happen or come clean and say that plans have changed.

No it was not promised. You are just making **** up.

I don't blame Mario party for the Gamecube's fall, but the lack of a Melee sequel. I just chose the Party games as an example. All I'm saying is that Nintedno fans have waited a long time for this game, and Nintendo must deliver. That's all.

They aren't even made by the same development studios. Mario Party games are made by Hudson Soft, while Super Smash Bros. is developed by HAL Laboratory. If you want to blame anything, at least blame HAL for focusing so much on portable Kirby games, since that was what they were making before, during, and after Melee.

But then, those games fueled the operating budget for that company, so I cannot really hold it against them.

Also, lets not forget that the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl has changed hands. First and foremost, HAL is no longer developing it. In fact, we do not really know who is developing it. Sakurai is at the helm. He left HAL to work for Q Entertainment (and he brought about the creation of Meteos, thank God). Then he formed his own development studio called Sora. But there is no confirmation that Sora is making SSBB, yet Sakurai is still helming it.

The Super Smash Bros. property has bounced around a lot. You cannot make a game when it isn't even attached to a developer anymore. Cut them some slack. Not to mention I'm sure Sakurai likes to spread out and work on something besides a Smash Bros. every once in a while.

Let's not forget. While games are our hobby, they are other people's jobs. Can you imagine how boring your job would be if you kept cranking out the same type of game, over and over? How horrible must it be to get stuck being the guy who creates new 2D Kirby sprites, year after year, for portable games?

Have a little respect that these people like to diversify what they do. Do you think Rowling wants to forever write Harry Potter material? Do you think Joss Whedon wanted to write and direct Firefly forever? Good grief...

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It doesn't really matter now. What's done is done.

I don't agree to that.

I mean, come on, you've mentioned elsewhere that you still play and enjoy Melee.

I personally never get tired of Smash, but that's just me.

So, why do you so earnestly desire a sequel? Why are you so anxious? The only reason you are so demanding of it now is because it is on the horizon, but it isn't quite here yet. You were likely perfectly content with Melee until Brawl was announced, and then it became the same old story of "Well, what took so long?"

The same thing happened with Starcraft...but, do you think that people stopped playing Starcraft? No. Sure, they wanted a sequel, but the original was played just as much as usual. Now, a sequel is on the horizon and people have started to peek their levels of *****iness.

Prove me wrong.

You want me to prove that Reggie would mention a game after it was already announced. Okay. He mentionned Super Smash Bros. Brawl at E3. And, hey, it is already announced. And he certainly didn't insist that they keep the title of the new Zelda game under wraps during the announcements because, hey, we already knew about it. It doesn't make sense that he would be secretive about a title that is being released on MONDAY!

If your playing with a group of buddies though it rarely gets boring. At least thats my experience with it.

Actually, I get bored of playing with buddies too. We've played together so many times that we can practically tune out of the match entirely, and still have a heated game. We carry on in-depth discussions while playing, and the person who wins as become the guy who is least focused on the conversation.

And, let's face it. Wont online be more similar to playing alone than playing with a group of friends. Sure, the challenge between a group of friends and a group of people online will be equivalent, but the social atmosphere of playing is gone. Instead, you're just sitting alone, near your television, playing Super Smash Bros. I've never really understood the full appeal of online, unless you've got the whole microphone setup. But even then, I prefer to round up the people I am playing with. You cannot gloat as effectively in online play, especially in Brawl (where there is unlikely to be a microphone set up.

 

[Elysium]

No it was not promised. You are just making **** up.

Actually he's not. It was promised, even gaming mags make reference to it. Here's straight out of the August 07 issue of EGM (the one about soul Calibur)
"Nintendo's iconic cast may look cute and cuddly, but watch out-someone like princerss Peach can knock the piss outta Mario. This third installment in the Smash Bros. series steps it up in every way, as Brawl features a host of new characters (such as Pit from Kid Icarus, Wario and Metal Gear's Solid Snake), power-ups, and ever changing stages. Even the audio is receiving a major upgrade, with more than 35 of the industry's top musicians-which includes such talent as Yasunori Mitsuda (Chrono Trigger), Yolo Shimomura (kingdom Hearts), and Yuzo Koshiro (ActRaiser)-working on the games soundtrack. But it's the promise of online play that's got us itching to step into Brawl's arena(the developer's promise of not overdoing the Wii-mote wigglin' and wagglin' also helps).

Is EGM just making that up as well?
Edit: (Oh and I love how you referred to me as "Not Wiseguy". I got a laugh outta that.)

 

[bored]

As much as I want brawl online there is nothing you can really do..but wait...

 

[OnyxVulpine]

The thing that gets me the most is.. No headset so you can't talk? I mean there are going to be a bunch of kids and whiners. But when you start playing across the world with some of your friends you meet here you would want to talk to them easily with a mic while playing right?

 

[bored]

The thing that gets me the most is.. No headset so you can't talk? I mean there are going to be a bunch of kids and whiners. But when you start playing across the world with some of your friends you meet here you would want to talk to them easily with a mic while playing right?

Why would talkin to the other player be a big deal.. the majority of everyone that could do that would just trash talk, threat. or just completely annoy you..

 

[Elysium]

If you read his post, he said that there might be kids and whiners,(who would surely annoy) but why would your friends threaten you over a headset? It would just be a cool thing to have.

 

[bored]

Yeah, well I don't think Sakurai will go that far with online gaming... ::sigh:: I also think I read somewhere that if brawl has wifi capabilites that there will be no ranking systems -_-

 

[PitIcarus]

Typically the only reason why you want communication while gaming online is when you are playing a coordination type of game. Such as Gears of War/GRAW/Rainbow Six. Like others have suggested, if you want to talk to your friends just use Ventrillo/Teamspeak/MSN/AIM or something with bluetooth headset on your pc.

 

[Wiseguy]

There is no way I would justify a 300 dollar purchase for just Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It is a great game...but I cannot imagine devoting that money to a system for a single game. I bought it for Twilight Princess, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, SSBB, Mario Kart, Resident Evil: UC, and the inevitable announcement of Pikmin 3.

Dear God, there had better be a Pikmin 3.

I guess that's where we differ. I love my Wii, and this fall's lineup looks incredible - but I'm what you would call a Smash Bros fanatic first and a gamer second. When I sacrificed 300 bucks for a Wii, I was investing in a new Smash Bros player. Zelda, Metroid and the like were just added bonuses.

And yes, Pikmin owns! Perhaps my favorite single player series, though it's virtually tied with Prime 1&2. The lack of Pikmin 3 at this year's E3 crushed my spirit...

I think that is the definition of a master plan. If you could see exactly what their master plan was, it wouldn't be very masterful.

I still maintain the opinion that it is part of the hype machine. I mean, come on. They haven't re-announced Snake and Metaknight yet on the Dojo site. But we know they haven't been quietly removed from the game. Have a little faith.

Understand, I havene't given up hope. On the contrary, I wouldn't be surprised if Brawl's online were revealed in a Dojo update any day now. This thread is just me being paranoid. But remember: just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

People wont be able to buy Brawl and only then find out that online is missing. They have to advertise on the package for the same reason that the ESRB affixes a disclaimer at the very start of the game that experience may change during online play. They have to tell you.

I exagerate, but if we learned shortly before release that there was no online, alot of loyal Nintendo fans would be outraged. Okay, Mr. Technical?

It isn't being picky. It is holding people to their word. A lot of people diss politicians for not fulfilling their campaign committments. The things they outline in a campaign are not guarantees that "this will get done". They are a list of goals that the party has that they will implement if feasible, and people vote for them on the basis of their intentions. Unfortunately, time and money do not always allow for all promises to be fulfilled. You cannot hold that against people.

Yes, but if voters weren't outraged every time a politiicna breaks their word our elected officials would be under no pressure to get results. Besides, our friends in Ottawa get their feelings hurt, they can always lick their wounds with their six figure salaries.

Also, you're the one trying to prove that the promise was made. Therefore, burden of the proof falls on you, not me. I'm willing to do fact checking to see if what you bring up is true, but I'm not going to go hunting through old press releases and news articles looking for something to back YOU up. That's not how it works. That would be like a defence attorney arguing for why his client should go to jail.

May it please the court to enter this new piece of evidence in the record: Exibit A, Nintendo's E3 2005 Press conferance.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/0/6125165/nintendo-e3-2005-press-conference

No it was not promised. You are just making **** up.

Those were the exact words Genghis Kaun told me as we were iceskating on Venus while fleeing a stampede of killer flamingos....

Spoiler

Now THAT was making **** up.

They aren't even made by the same development studios. Mario Party games are made by Hudson Soft, while Super Smash Bros. is developed by HAL Laboratory. If you want to blame anything, at least blame HAL for focusing so much on portable Kirby games, since that was what they were making before, during, and after Melee.

But then, those games fueled the operating budget for that company, so I cannot really hold it against them.

Also, lets not forget that the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl has changed hands. First and foremost, HAL is no longer developing it. In fact, we do not really know who is developing it. Sakurai is at the helm. He left HAL to work for Q Entertainment (and he brought about the creation of Meteos, thank God). Then he formed his own development studio called Sora. But there is no confirmation that Sora is making SSBB, yet Sakurai is still helming it.

The Super Smash Bros. property has bounced around a lot. You cannot make a game when it isn't even attached to a developer anymore. Cut them some slack. Not to mention I'm sure Sakurai likes to spread out and work on something besides a Smash Bros. every once in a while.

Let's not forget. While games are our hobby, they are other people's jobs. Can you imagine how boring your job would be if you kept cranking out the same type of game, over and over? How horrible must it be to get stuck being the guy who creates new 2D Kirby sprites, year after year, for portable games?

Have a little respect that these people like to diversify what they do. Do you think Rowling wants to forever write Harry Potter material? Do you think Joss Whedon wanted to write and direct Firefly forever? Good grief...

I swear, from the bottom of my heart I harbour no resentment towards Sakurai, Nintendo, or the butload of crappy Mario Party games on the Cube for the lack of a Melee sequel. All I'm saying is that Nintendo fans have been (im)patiently waiting for a Smash sequel all these years, so having to wait another six years to play online Smash would be VERY lame.

I don't agree to that.

I mean, come on, you've mentioned elsewhere that you still play and enjoy Melee.

You disagree with us disagreeing? Doesn't that double negative mean that we actually AGREE!?

...or did I just blow your mind?

So, why do you so earnestly desire a sequel? Why are you so anxious? The only reason you are so demanding of it now is because it is on the horizon, but it isn't quite here yet. You were likely perfectly content with Melee until Brawl was announced, and then it became the same old story of "Well, what took so long?"

The same thing happened with Starcraft...but, do you think that people stopped playing Starcraft? No. Sure, they wanted a sequel, but the original was played just as much as usual. Now, a sequel is on the horizon and people have started to peek their levels of *****iness.

I love Melee. It hardly ever leaves my Wii (it's well known that Melee is still the best game for the Wii) but ever since its release I've dreamed of what characters and maps that could be added in a sequel. Every year I would keep my ears peeled for the next Smash, but to no avail. Still, Melee's infinite replayability made the wait easier, no question.

You want me to prove that Reggie would mention a game after it was already announced. Okay. He mentionned Super Smash Bros. Brawl at E3. And, hey, it is already announced. And he certainly didn't insist that they keep the title of the new Zelda game under wraps during the announcements because, hey, we already knew about it. It doesn't make sense that he would be secretive about a title that is being released on MONDAY!

You call that proof? I want solid evidence that I can see, hear, touch, taste AND smell before I will conceed that Reggie didn't talk secretively about the previously announced Strikers simply becuase he felt like it.

Actually, I get bored of playing with buddies too. We've played together so many times that we can practically tune out of the match entirely, and still have a heated game. We carry on in-depth discussions while playing, and the person who wins as become the guy who is least focused on the conversation.

And, let's face it. Wont online be more similar to playing alone than playing with a group of friends. Sure, the challenge between a group of friends and a group of people online will be equivalent, but the social atmosphere of playing is gone. Instead, you're just sitting alone, near your television, playing Super Smash Bros. I've never really understood the full appeal of online, unless you've got the whole microphone setup. But even then, I prefer to round up the people I am playing with. You cannot gloat as effectively in online play, especially in Brawl (where there is unlikely to be a microphone set up.

But with the miracle of friend codes, you and I could decide to have a match right now. In fact, you could arrange matches with anyone on Smashboards and then gloat about your victories on the interweb.

Personally, I just want to play against other human beings whenever I want. Rounding up a bunch of friends for a lengthy play session is kind of a hassel, and practicing against CPUs is just plain boring. Online play won't replace actually playing with friends, it just means having the ability to play when your friends aren't handy.

Actually he's not. It was promised, even gaming mags make reference to it. Here's straight out of the August 07 issue of EGM (the one about soul Calibur)
"Nintendo's iconic cast may look cute and cuddly, but watch out-someone like princerss Peach can knock the piss outta Mario. This third installment in the Smash Bros. series steps it up in every way, as Brawl features a host of new characters (such as Pit from Kid Icarus, Wario and Metal Gear's Solid Snake), power-ups, and ever changing stages. Even the audio is receiving a major upgrade, with more than 35 of the industry's top musicians-which includes such talent as Yasunori Mitsuda (Chrono Trigger), Yolo Shimomura (kingdom Hearts), and Yuzo Koshiro (ActRaiser)-working on the games soundtrack. But it's the promise of online play that's got us itching to step into Brawl's arena(the developer's promise of not overdoing the Wii-mote wigglin' and wagglin' also helps).

Is EGM just making that up as well?
Edit: (Oh and I love how you referred to me as "Not Wiseguy". I got a laugh outta that.)

Thanks for backing me up. You might not be Wiseguy but you're still wise, guy.

 

[SpicierMooMoo]

Heres a little hope that brawl is online from IGN..

http://wii.ign.com/articles/808/808771p1.html

and

http://wii.ign.com/articles/808/808771p2.html

3) Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Genre: Fighter
Developer: Nintendo
Publisher: Nintendo
Why?: Like everyone else, I'm disappointed that Brawl was a complete no-show at E3 2007, but that hasn't changed the fact that I still very much want and, indeed, must own this hugely hyped sequel. With more characters and stages than ever before, four different control schemes, new specials, and noticeably improved graphics to boot, Brawl has everything going for it. Plus, although Nintendo still isn't talking about it, this is sure to be the Wii game that really pushes the Wi-Fi Connection.

and

4) Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Genre: Fighter
Developer: Nintendo
Publisher: Nintendo
Why?: So each of the "Big 3" are actually making it out this year, eh Nintendo? If that's indeed true - and the company insists it is time and time again - I've got plenty of gaming to do. Smash Bros. Brawl would be my #1 game any other year, as it's exactly what I look for in my gaming experience. Take a highly competitive game, put it online, and throw in nearly every top-tier mascot in the world. How can you not get psyched about this game? The only reason this killer title is this far down on my list is because it's more of the same, and even though that "same" is still a AAA piece of gaming I've got no problem making room for future greats by dropping this down a bit. After all, everyone's buying this one anyways, right?

 

[Devastlian]

Alright, the quote from Mr. Iwata: "One or two Wi-Fi games will be ready for launch and I am pushing our teams to make sure Smash Bros. is one of them."

It seems to be more of a "we'll try" or "I intend to" statement to me; definately not a definative statement.

 

[PitIcarus]

Wow if Granite and WiseGuy want to write love letters to eachother, can they please just do it in PM?

 

[Wiseguy]

By the way guys, I've updated my intial post with a new challenge: Phase 3.

Heres a little hope that brawl is online from IGN..

http://wii.ign.com/articles/808/808771p1.html

and

http://wii.ign.com/articles/808/808771p2.html

3) Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Genre: Fighter
Developer: Nintendo
Publisher: Nintendo
Why?: Like everyone else, I'm disappointed that Brawl was a complete no-show at E3 2007, but that hasn't changed the fact that I still very much want and, indeed, must own this hugely hyped sequel. With more characters and stages than ever before, four different control schemes, new specials, and noticeably improved graphics to boot, Brawl has everything going for it. Plus, although Nintendo still isn't talking about it, this is sure to be the Wii game that really pushes the Wi-Fi Connection.

and

4) Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Genre: Fighter
Developer: Nintendo
Publisher: Nintendo
Why?: So each of the "Big 3" are actually making it out this year, eh Nintendo? If that's indeed true - and the company insists it is time and time again - I've got plenty of gaming to do. Smash Bros. Brawl would be my #1 game any other year, as it's exactly what I look for in my gaming experience. Take a highly competitive game, put it online, and throw in nearly every top-tier mascot in the world. How can you not get psyched about this game? The only reason this killer title is this far down on my list is because it's more of the same, and even though that "same" is still a AAA piece of gaming I've got no problem making room for future greats by dropping this down a bit. After all, everyone's buying this one anyways, right?

That is actually a positive sign. The IGN crew are a trustworthy bunch.

Alright, the quote from Mr. Iwata: "One or two Wi-Fi games will be ready for launch and I am pushing our teams to make sure Smash Bros. is one of them."

It seems to be more of a "we'll try" or "I intend to" statement to me; definately not a definative statement.

Ouch. That kinda destroys a large of my argument right there....

Sorry Granite. Guess I did overstate my case. Nintendo never technically promised that Brawl would be online.

But they sure as heck BETTER! Phase 4 of my campaign involves torches and pitchforks.

Wow if Granite and WiseGuy want to write love letters to eachother, can they please just do it in PM?

Yeah all those big words can be pretty confusing, can't they VagrantWade? I suggest you head down to the "Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?"* thread. That should be more your speed.






*(I kid, I kid. Please don't hurt me Dylan.)