SmashBoards Roster Creation Contest: Round 17: Swampasaur vs. Guybrush20X6

[jaytalks]

I vote Jaytalks. Keyblade's roster would be a dream come true, but it's extremely unlikely.

On the other hand, Jaytalks has made a few, but reasonable cuts. The only thing I really disapprove of is Matthew instead of Isaac. Would you mind explaining?

Sure. Generally, Smash reflects the previous video game generation in representation and stages. The Zelda series is the best example of this. Melee had touches of OoT all over it, with all Zelda reps reflecting OoT, and Termina Bay showcasing MM. Brawl had both WW and TP strongly represented, with its stages, and representatives. Wii U has both TP and SS (remember, TP was a Wii Launch title). The 3DS has OoT and ST.

With that in mind, it's reasonable that GS would be represented by DD in its character. Has this ever happened before though? The first hero in a generational series not being repped and picked over another hero from another generation. Yes, it happened with the N64 with Ness getting in over Ninten. Remember, 64 was intended to be only for Japan, so Japan only status wouldn't matter.

But Isaac is more well known to Smash Players as an AT? Yeah, I generally don't buy that for a few reasons. First of all, Isaac did not beat out Matthew as a rep. Matthew didn't exist yet. So it's a different situation than AT's like Waluigi and Lyn. Secondly, we apply the AT boost separately by characters and series. AT status doesn't help Samurai Gorohm Devil, and Knuckle Joe as much as it helps Isaac. I have yet to see an AT appearance help a character make it in. I can understand an AT appearance helping a character's chance when he/she beat other characters (examples being Waluigi and Lyn), but I don't see it aiding them against newly created characters (as Lyn doesn't beat out Chrom in most people's eyes).

Isaac is more requested, but as you can tell by my roster, I don't value popularity as much others. I think popularity gets you to door, but popularity doesn't put you over other characters. Sakurai picks whoever he wants. Should GS get another release, Matthew stands to be a better rep for the series' future. And should Sakurai consult second party developer Camelot (as he does with other series like FE), it's very possible they would recommend Matthew, as they have hinted that Matthew's saga is the real story of the Golden Sun series.

That. and Matthew is a much snazzier dresser.

 

[FalKoopa]

You make good points. Though Smash does represent the previous generation in terms of stages and overall emphasis, that hasn't really happened in case of choosing characters. Case in point, Olimar. The Pikmin stage is from Pikmin 3, sure, but we still got Olimar, and we haven't seen the rock or winged pikmin either.

The rest of the points I agree with, especially the snazzy dresser part.

 

[Seraphim.]

I'm going with Jaytalks' roster although cutting Lucas makes me sad, it has Lucina so I guess I would like that.

Keyblades' roster looks fun to play and it has Roy which is always a plus in my book but it's simply to large, I don't think not having a FE:A character is a negative though.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

This is a very hard match because it is basically prediction vs wishlist. And voting is going to reflect how people feel about the two.

On a wishlist perspective, Keyblades really hits on every single fan service-like aspect of a wishlist - including highly requested yet unlikely characters as well as odd-ball additions such as Donbe and Hikari (which I would gasm if it happened). However, two SE characters as well as a lack of Palutena (keyblade...Palutena is Kid Icarus, not Fire Emblem) gave some negative points.

However, viewing the two from a prediction aspect, jaytalks is obviously superior since it takes some cuts into account and adds generally acceptable newcomers. However, I question the addition of Lip, the Kalos Trainer, and Mathhew while not adding King K. Rool or Ridley and removing Lucas but I commend you for adding Classic (Young) Link.

Tough decisions but as I mentioned earlier, this round heavily reflects how we approach rosters; through a wish list or prediction lens. Unless the poster said it is a wishlist, I usually go straight to prediction mode. Therefore, I vote for jaytalks roster.

 

[jaytalks]

You make good points. Though Smash does represent the previous generation in terms of stages and overall emphasis, that hasn't really happened in case of choosing characters. Case in point, Olimar. The Pikmin stage is from Pikmin 3, sure, but we still got Olimar, and we haven't seen the rock or winged pikmin either.

The rest of the points I agree with, especially the snazzy dresser part.

With Olimar, there's three things consider.
1) These are two different situations. One is a series getting its first rep; the other is the series having a rep cut for a new rep. We are talking about going from an unrepresented series to having 1 rep with GS. Pikmin by replacing Olimar would be cutting 1 rep to have a newcomer rep. The process for Sakurai is very different; one involves cutting and the other doesn't.
2) Pikmin 3 was released long after the Smash 4's development had begun. So that would there's less of a chance Sakurai would select these characters, given that he would possibly have more limited information about them. We can't assume all developers give Sakurai all info about a given title. His information gathering process ended around this years's E3.
3) None of the Pikmin newcomers have been deconfirmed. Sure, there is a lower chance that they will be in the game, but there is still the possibility.

On Ridley: Past comments of Sakurai along with the comments with the Pyrosphere have me betting against his inclusion. While I prefer his inclusion, past comments of Sakurai have suggested that his development would require additional time and cause cuts to my roster as well. I consider my roster, along with the rest of the rosters in this competition, as a prediction roster, so I make prediction based on what I think will happen, rather than what I want. Of course, my predictions are filled with my own biases of my wanted characters that I think that are reasonable.

On King K. Rool: I like Dixie Kong better and she is probably easier to design. She also was closer to being in Brawl. My bet is that she makes it in with a very small basis connected to Diddy Kong. Not a clone or semi-clone though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Matthew instead of Isaac is okay.

But Impa instead of Isaac isn't.

Hmmm...

 

[Kapus]

Matthew and Issac are both Golden Sun characters. I don't see how Impa properly relates to the situation.

 

[FalKoopa]

Matthew and Issac are both Golden Sun characters. I don't see how Impa properly relates to the situation.

He's trolling...

 

[TheRealHeroOfWinds]

I forgot to say I am still here for the competition.

 

[Xenigma]

Not really a lot of competition this round: 68 characters is a downright insane size for an SSB4 roster. While this would be a huge crowdpleaser were it to come true, it's extremely unlikely to be even close to accurate, and since jaytalks has a far more plausible roster and this has been stated to be a prediction roster contest, I have to vote for jay.

I'm sure I'll give a more in-depth analysis of jay's roster in a later round, but I'll just go ahead and say I'm happy to see someone else choosing Lucina over Chrom: it seems to me the more sensible Awakening pick, yet it remains quite uncommon. Nice to see I'm not the only one putting Dixie over K. Rool too. I'm a little less thrilled with Matthew over Isaac and Classic Link over Toon Link, but for a prediction roster, yours certainly has personality.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Voted Jaytalks, but I'm not the biggest fan of some of his choices. More specifically, Kalos Trainer over Kanto Trainer, as well as Young Link.

 

[moneyfrenzy]

Definitely Jaytalks won.

Im sorry but keyblades roster is just insane. It has something like 68 characters, and has third parties like sora and banjo and some guy named w. of light. 8 3rd party characters is a lot, i think we will only see 3 or 4.

Not to mention he added 18 new nintendo franchises. and why are there so many more mario characters than pokemon and zelda?
It just seems like you added every character that has a chance of being in, making the roster size huge. and you also added very very unlikely characters like sora, banjo, w. of light, bubbles, kumatora, donbe & hikari.
Would you mind explaining why you chose who you did??

 

[Capybara Gaming]

As I said, I wanted to make a fun roster, not a prediction one. Mine is a Smasher's Dream Come true, while giving a little something for everyone.

Palutena I wanted to include. As with Shulk.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

The contest stated to create a prediction roster. Wish lists rosters are harder to evaluate due to the fact they take personal preference into consideration more so than logic (not saying wish lists don't have logic). Hence why the scores for keyblade is low. Everyone is treating it as a prediction roster.

 

[Zzuxon]

I vote for Jaytalks. Keyblade guy's is pretty awesome, but unreasonable.

 

[moneyfrenzy]

As I said, I wanted to make a fun roster, not a prediction one. Mine is a Smasher's Dream Come true, while giving a little something for everyone.

Palutena I wanted to include. As with Shulk.

but there is going to be another contest that is a wishlist one

 

[APC99]

So, just as a question, which is worse?

60 characters w/ a low amount of third-parties?
or 40 characters w/ a high amount of third-parties?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

60 characters.

 

[Protom]

Voted keyblade

 

[FalKoopa]

So, just as a question, which is worse?

60 characters w/ a low amount of third-parties?
or 40 characters w/ a high amount of third-parties?

The second part.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Alright. That's enough time to vote.

Final score is...

Jaytalks: 28
KeyBladeGuy: 7

Jaytalks wins!

The next round is...

Chandy....

versus....

PixelPasta!

Please vote for the best roster here!

http://www.yourfreepoll.com/ouxcewbusp.html


Have at them folks!

 

[Starbound]

PixelPasta gets my vote.

Pac-Man > Lloyd
King K. Rool = Dixie
Replacing Pokemon Trainer ees bad
and a second Link

 

[FalKoopa]

Lets See.....

Chandy:
- Mario: 1 newcomer (+1)
- Zelda: Ghirahim as a newcomer, no 2nd Link (-2)
- DK: Has King K. Rool (+1)
- Fire emblem: Cuts Ike (-1)
- Pokémon: Cuts Lucario, Replaces Pokémon trainer, adds Zoroark (-2)
- KI: Palutena (+1)
- Metroid: Ridley (+1)
- Little Mac and Isaac (+2)
- Mother: Cuts Lucas (-1)
- Cuts Ice Climbers and ROB. (-2)
Total: -2 points

PixelPasta:
- Mario: 1 newcomer (+1)
- Zelda: Ghirahim as a newcomer(-1)
- DK: Dixie Kong (+1)
- Fire emblem: Cuts Ike (-1)
- Pokémon: Retains Lucario and Pokémon trainer (+1)
- KI: Palutena (+1)
- Metroid: Dark Samus (-1)
- Little Mac and Isaac (+2)
Total: 3 points

My vote goes to PixelPasta

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Waddle Dee isn't getting in. Dark Samus isn't getting in over Ridley. Add to that the fact that including transformations, pixelpasta's roster has 51 characters. Voted Chandy.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

This one was hard.

Things that are shared that I'm iffy about:

Paper Mario
Ghirahim
Cutting Ike

PixelPasta's roster size is pretty out of control. Waddle Dee and Dark Samus aren't happening, Waddle Dee at least isn't happening this time and Dark Samus just isn't happening. I don't see ALBW Link happening either when Wind Waker has just seen a remake.

However, Chandy's roster also has its shortcomings. First of all, Kalos Trainer: The Kanto starters are pretty much guaranteed with their new major role in X & Y. Cutting Lucario for Zoroark also makes little sense, since 5th Gen will be long gone once this game comes out, and Lucario has a reason to stay while Zoroark has no reason to get in with 6th Gen. The big controversial one here is obviously Lloyd though, which was also the nail in the coffin.

I voted for PixelPasta.

Btw guys, don't take anything of this personal, might sound very negative, but there are good things about your rosters too, just giving constructive criticism

 

[Zhadgon]

Chandy

-) 44 Character Roster +3 points
-) 5 Mario reps +/-
-) New Donkey Kong rep +1
-) New Zelda rep +1
-) Star Fox cut +/-
-) Kid Icarus rep +/-
-) Fire Emblem cut plus new rep +/-
-) 5 Pokemon reps +/-
-) Metroid rep (Ridley) +1
-) Erathbound cut +/-
-) Shulk +1
-) Little Mac +1
-) Takamaru +1
-) Snake +1
-) Sonic +1
-) Lloyd -1 (Pac-Man would be a better rep from Namco).
-) Isaac +1
-) Missing another Zelda rep -1

Total: 10 points.

PixelPasta!


-) 49 Character Roster -3 points
-) 5 Mario reps +/-
-) New Donkey Kong rep +1
-) New Zelda rep +/-
-) New Kid Icarus rep +/-
-) Fire Emblem cut plus new rep +/-
-) 5 Pokemon reps +/-
-) New Metroid rep -1 (Dark Samus seems less likely)
-) 4 Kirby reps -1
-) Shulk +1
-) Little Mac +1
-) Isaac +1
-) Snake +1
-) Sonic +1
-) Pac-Man +1
-) Same character slots for Mario, Zelda and Pokemon +1

Total: 3 points.

The winner: Chandy

 

[jaytalks]

PixelPasta roster is too big for my tastes. I can understanding having a large roster with no cuts (although 49 is still too big), but 49 roster and still managed to cut Ike? I can understand a smaller roster cutting Ike but not a bigger one.

Vote goes to Chandy.

I'm sure I'll give a more in-depth analysis of jay's roster in a later round, but I'll just go ahead and say I'm happy to see someone else choosing Lucina over Chrom: it seems to me the more sensible Awakening pick, yet it remains quite uncommon. Nice to see I'm not the only one putting Dixie over K. Rool too. I'm a little less thrilled with Matthew over Isaac and Classic Link over Toon Link, but for a prediction roster, yours certainly has personality.

I appreciate the kind words Xenigma. I hope my personality comes through in the roster. I think it would be very boring if all the rosters featured Ridley, King K. Rool, Chrom, etc.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

My current roster:

48 Characters
Newcomers: 16 (15 if you count Mewtwo as a Veteran)
Cuts: Lucario, Toon Link, and Snake

Dixie Kong - Return to Series, Big player within the Country Series
Little Mac - Wii Return, Legendary Nintendo Fighting Character
Ghirahim - Very popular new Zelda villain
Mewtwo - Relevant in X/y with Mega-Evolutions
Chrom - Big, new, lead in Awakening
Palutena - Return of Kid Icarus, Major character in Series
Isa Jo - The localized lead for Sin & Punishment
Shulk - Xenoblade is a major new IP for Nintendo
Isaac - Main lead in Golden Sun
Mii - Have become big in the Wii/DS Generation
Takamaru - Heavily Requested for, Has been popping up in Cameos recently
Sheriff - Very old-school, classic, Nintendo character that reps the Arcade
Pac-Man - Legendary video game character, Namco is helping with the game

 

[AEMehr]

they both lose neither has toon link
but i suppose pixel is closer

 

[FalKoopa]

The sudden reveal will give PixelPasta the edge, as he does have a 2nd Link, at the very least.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

never mind

 

[Gingerbread Man]

First thing I do with any roster is check to see if it goes over 50 (including characters with multiple forms).

I'm going with Chandy.

 

[Xenigma]

Two rosters that cut Toon Link? That's unfortunate. Two rosters that cut Ike for Chrom? Doubly unfortunate. Two rosters that add Ghirahim? Triply unfortunate. Two rosters with Paper Mario, though? That's interesting. Not quite sure which one I prefer yet at an initial glance, so let's analyze:

Chandy
44 characters, and apparently Random was left out? Lots of cuts: TL, Ike, Wolf, Trainer, Lucario, Lucas, R.O.B., and even Ice Climbers are all gone, yet inexplicably Snake escapes the slaughter. Those cuts make room for some very questionable additions, with Ghirahim, Zoroark, Kalos Trainer, and particularly Lloyd feeling like highly unlikely newcomers. I also think adding both Isaac and Shulk is questionable, but not too terrible. Paper Mario over Bowser Junior's a reasonable pick, and Mewtwo, K. Rool, Palutena, Chrom, Ridley, Little Mac, and Takamaru are all reasonably safe picks.
Overall - A lot of very questionable decisions make this a roster that's hard to like.

PixelPasta
49 characters and a random, which is what I personally expect from the roster so it works for me. Looks like Toon Link and Ike are the only cuts, both of which are defensible (at least pre-TL being revealed). At least two newcomer picks I agree with in Dixie over K. Rool and Paper Mario over Bowser Junior, so that's nice. Then there's the few more unlikely choices: Ghirahim, Waddle Dee, Dark Samus, and (even before today) Classic Link all seem very unlikely in my eyes, and as with Chandy I think having both Isaac and Shulk is not so great. Also seems a bit odd you include the rumored Little Mac and Pac-Man yet not Mii. No obvious retro, though I suppose Classic Link would count. Past that we've got the safe picks of Mewtwo and Palutena; not much to say there.
Overall - Also a lot of questionable choices, especially now with TL revealed, but not too bad.

Winner - PixelPasta
Can't say I'm really a fan of either roster, but I think Pixel makes some better character choices and at the very least he isn't cutting very likely returners like Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Pokemon Trainer. I can understand making cuts, but eight? That's crazy.

 

[Smasher 101]

I voted for Pixel. I'm not entirely sure about Dark Samus or Waddle Dee, but Chandy made too many cuts, with R.O.B. and Ice Climbers among those cut.

 

[Starbound]

After this round, everyone has 2 days to resubmit their rosters reflecting the confirmation of Toon Link before round 6 starts.

This includes those who have already had their rosters featured in a round.

 

[PixelPasta]

Well, shoot. Toon Link's unexpected reveal really screwed me over! I can't say that I expected that, at all.

I'm beginning to regret putting in Dark Samus. I just don't see Ridley as being very likely... but I now see that Dark Samus may have been a poor decision on my part.
On the other hand, I have no regrets about Waddle Dee. I will stand by that choice until the end! C:<

 

[Xigger]

Asides from what everyone else is saying, am I the only one bothered that Chandy didn't place Zoroark next to the other Pokemon characters?

 

[Opossum]

PixelPasta beats Chandy for me for one reason only...

Chandy appears to have cut the Ice Climbers.

 

[APC99]

What I'm more worried about is the fact that everyone dislikes Toon Link


OK, time to evaluate!


This is a tough one. Both people cut Toon Link, so you're both on my hit list but I'll actually look over things I enjoy. PixelPasta, you've got balls to not include Ridley or K. Rool. I like that. However, Dark Samus? That's a bit harder. Since I'm not a Fire Emblem fan, nor am I an Ike player, Ike's cut doesn't truly affect my decisions, even if I prefer not cutting any starters. Chandy's is a bit more reasonable with newcomers, but CUTS. 8 cuts? Seriously? AND ICE CLIMBERS? Grr.

In the end, I chose PixelPasta. Although some... strange choices for characters, he doesn't cut a majority of characters AND does have some interesting choices. Even though Chandy has Waddle Dee and Takamaru, PixelPasta wins. Because you don't cut Lucas, Wolf or Pokemon Trainer without my permission.


No hard feelings?

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

PixelPasta had my vote for ICs.