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SmashBoards Roster Creation Contest: Round 17: Swampasaur vs. Guybrush20X6

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Pacack

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I personally prefer realism over "creativity" considering that we're technically considering likeliness in this (right now, at least). Wariofan1 got my vote. My only real problem with his roster was lack of a new Mario rep or two (I think that Mario is more than deserving of five or six if Pokemon gets SEVEN) and the lack of a real history/surprise character like G&W and R.O.B..
 

PixelPasta

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Angelglory's has a nice layout, and I love the images selected for each character. It doesn't feel like there is too much new, but you took a few risks with characters such as Dillon or Mach Rider.
Wariofan's is very safe. I support the 3rd party selection here wholeheartedly - Pac-man is a great addition and I'm always glad to see people cutting Snake.
This one was very tough for me, but I think I want to go with Angelglory. I do like some of Wariofan's choices much better (such as Pac-man) but it felt very safe and predictable. Wariofan made some risky but still logical choices, which I commend. Plus, the layout and the uniform character icons really made Angelglory's roster.
But as usual, I really like both; and both I'd be quite happy to use in the final game! So good job to both of you!
 

Opossum

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In the end, I voted for Angelglory. Mainly because it had Snake, who I really don't see leaving at all. Like a couple of other people said, I generally prefer no-cut rosters.
 

Groose

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As usual, I have done an in-depth critique. If either of the contestants have questions or wish to argue against my judgement, don't hesitate to PM me.
ANGELGLORY
Positives:
1) Good layout. I'm so sick of seeing the brawl roster incarnate. It's quite impressive how you organized this.
2)Dillon. I don't really expect to see Dillon himself, but I do expect to see a character as "surprising" as he is, one that isn't among the favorites of this board. You took a risk here, and it paid off. I like risks... as does Sakurai.
3) Mach Rider. I' don't really expect him... but he's very plausible. Sakurai did redesign him and has included references to him since Melee. Congrats on not just picking Takamaru and calling it a day, as many seem to do.
4) Takamaru. But... but Mr. Groose, Your Honor! Aren't you usually indifferent to Takamaru? Not really. I like the guy. I just don't like to see him hogging every single roster as if he's the only Retro candidate out there.You also worked in Mach Rider, and I think Takamaru alongside another Retro is good.
Neutrality:
1) Fire Emblem Saturation. Three Fire Emblem characters is possible...but not overly likely. I also don't really expect the particular combination you created.
2) Roster Design. I would have made this a STRONG plus for not using the rostermaker... but you couldn't find icons for a few characters. Next time, photoshop them in.
Negatives:
1) Roster Size. I'm sorry, but I'm a "low guesser" when it comes to roster size. 48 Slots... why, that's as big as Ridley himself! I never make a roster over 45 characters, and even then I feel like I'm overestimating things.
2) No Cuts. WHY!?! Sakurai is trying to bring everyone back, but he said it most likely wouldn't happen. Your roster would have been a more reasonable size if a few cuts had been made, and you probably would have won this match hands down.
Closing Thoughts: I like you, kid. You got guts. Dillon and Mach Rider prove that much. But... you're an optimist, and I'm not. Cuts and a smaller roster would have made your roster one of my favorites. Just make three cuts on this existing roster, and you have what I deem a somewhat realistic size and I'm very satisfied. As it stands, I have to say it's somewhat unrealistic.
WARIOFAN1
Positives:
1) COMPLETE LEAK! While I personally have my doubts regarding the leak... I find all of the characters it mentions likely for other reasons. I'm inclined to believe the leak is true... not because they predicted the Wii Fit Trainer, but because it makes sense. This is a major plus.
2) Realistic Roster Size. I make 45-man rosters, and they often feel kind of bloated. But...this roster is a very good size.
3) Cuts. Have I mentioned that I don't mind cuts? I'm not all that certain of your Snake cut, but the other two (Wolf and Toon Link) are pretty likely to go, in my eyes.
Neutrality:
1) Fire Emblem Saturation. Three Fire Emblem characters is possible...but not overly likely. I also don't really expect the particular combination you created.
2) Takamaru. Ah, here we are again. Another case of just tossing in Takamaru as the obvious Retro and calling it a day.

Negatives:
1) Bad layout. I'm indifferent to people just kind of make the Brawl roster incarnate. But you kind of took the Brawl roster and... messed it up. Why aren't the Retros anywhere near each other? What's with DK on the right side of the roster? Admittedly, I do like having the Miis on the bottom left and the Random on the bottom right; I actually utilized that in my most recent roster.
2) Dearth of Surprise. I honestly expects Sakurai has another trick up his sleeve for us. Wii Fit Trainer was first, and the one he knew may be poorly received... so I think there is a surprise that will receive at the very least an indifferent reaction on the roster. I just... don't see anything like that on yours. You're a bit too predictable, a bit too brainwashed by this board. Open you mind to the beyond.
Closing Thoughts: You managed to make a small roster and added in the "unpopular" Miis and Pac-Man in the process. You didn't give a damn and just made the necessary cuts. But then... your roster ended up looking kind of like standard fare. Eh. The thing you need most is a risky surprise. Try to be a bit gutsy and add someone along the lines of (Dillon, Chibi-Robo, Starfy, Ray, Andy, Laughing Dog, etc...) in order to diversify yourself from the rest. You only need one of that type of character, and I'd pretty much declare you my favorite to win this contest.
THE VERDICT
Although I loved Angelglory's propensity for taking risks and adding the more unusual, his large roster size and dearth of cuts really turned me off. Wariofan1 offered me what Angelglory could not: namely, a realistic roster size and a handful of cuts. On top of that, he completed the "leak," which is rather large in my eyes. I can't say I agree with everything on his roster, and I am disappointed in his lack of creativity, but his roster is just altogether more reasonable.
I may note that I find both of these rosters better than the winners of the previous rounds.
 

APC99

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Aww, no. I'm not making crying gifs because I lost. I'm just making them Ariand/AEM's post today was a complete work of brilliance.


Can't wait until I thrash you somewhere along the line in the Loser's Bracket.

I'm joking! Golly gee, do I have to put /kidding by my posts nowadays? :)
 

MasterOfKnees

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Negatives:
1) Bad layout. I'm indifferent to people just kind of make the Brawl roster incarnate. But you kind of took the Brawl roster and... messed it up. Why aren't the Retros anywhere near each other? What's with DK on the right side of the roster? Admittedly, I do like having the Miis on the bottom left and the Random on the bottom right; I actually utilized that in my most recent roster.
DK is on the right side because the top line of the roster is set up after the order in which the franchises' names appeared in the trailer. Other than that, yeah, I'm guilty of making a mess out of the layout, I don't use so much time for that as I do picking characters. Funnily enough I think that most of my newcomers fall in line with the ones that have been rated highest in Rate Their Chances.

Either way, tons thanks for the post, helps me know what I can do better in the future.
 

Tepig2000

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I like Angelglory's better. But my pool asks "Which roster is better? Swampasaur's or monkeyfrenzy's?". Instead of "Which roster is better? Angelglory's or Wariofan1's?"
 

moneyfrenzy

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I like Angelglory's better. But my pool asks "Which roster is better? Swampasaur's or monkeyfrenzy's?". Instead of "Which roster is better? Angelglory's or Wariofan1's?"
Make sure to read the whole thread first, theu are now using your free polls to determine the votes
 
D

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Wariofan1:
+ Has cuts: Cuts are likely, even if I feel they will be minimal, but doesn't go overboard.
+ Realistic amount of characters. Not too much, not too little. I could see us getting forty-eight/forty-nine characters.
++ Has Little Mac, Mii and Pac-Man: They are guarantee to show up due to the leak. Every prediction roster should have these by default.
-- Cuts Wolf: Wolf is not going anywhere this game.
- Predictable in additions: Lack any real surprises, which we will likely get one more of.

Angelglory:
- Has cuts: While I feel they will be minimal, we will still likely see cuts.
- 57 characters; transformation included. I doubt we are going to get this many.
- Dillon: I don't see him happening.
- Two retros: Possible but unlikely. I see it being only one of Takamaru or Mach Rider
+ Takes risks: One thing to do in a roster is to break out of conventional expectations, which he does.

The winner to me is Wariofan1.

@KingShadow: Shulk from Xenoblade.
 

Glaciacott

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I'm going to go with Wariofan1

Personally, at first I was tempted to vote against him mainly because of cutting Wolf. Then I realized that's being biased and illogical and gave it some thought.
First plus is the fact he has Pac-Man. I know that sounds picky, but I dislike how many people keep him out of rosters. He's sooo likely, and it feels like he's just being kept out because of people not liking him. Well, deal with it guys, Pac-Man is very very likely.
Next, I feel the same way about Snake being cut. I think he's unique and does a lot for Smash, but my initial wager, and something that Sakurai made me think further given his comments on third parties, is that we wouldn't be seeing the old third parties return. Nowadays, I'm sure Sonic will still manage to come back, but that's a case of a figure so iconic and meaningful to smash that Sakurai will find it hard to let him go just like that. Snake doesn't have that, especially in terms of him fitting in as a Nintendo character and even more him being promotion for a game series that has kept its main games away from Nintendo consoles. So why people discount points from Wariofan1 because he cuts Snake is beyond me.
Last controversial one is Zelda going down to four characters. I don't think it's going to happen, but I can understand if it did. I've said this before: the triforce represents Zelda perfectly. More than that is extra. So you taking that risk makes sense to me.
As for Mii, I don't care for it enough to give points, and I don't hate it enough to deduct points.

On the other hand, Angel has a very interesting roster. Just, very much so. But no cuts feels safe and both Mach Rider and Takamaru and Dillon feels way too ambitious. And then no Namco rep also bothers me, especially given that we know Sakurai post-E3 was giving thought to a Namco rep.

So in the end I'm settling with wariofan1. I hate that he cut Wolf, but aside from that is just makes more sense to mii me.
 

Depressed Gengar

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And the winner is!

Guybrush20X6!

He moves on the next round. The final score was....

Guybrush:24
Groose: 16

Time for Round three!

Angelglory vs Wariofan1!

Here's Angelglory's roster!


And here is Wariofan1's!



Have at them folks!

Vote here!

http://www.yourfreepoll.com/rwklfrtisp.html
Angelglory:
+ Ridley
+ King K. Rool
+ Takamaru
+ Little Mac
+/- No Cuts
+/- Decent sized roster
- Dillon
- Palutena
- No new Mario, but yet more Pokémon

Wariofan1
+ Ridley
+ King K. Rool
+ Takamaru
+ Little Mac
+/- Decent sized roster
- Palutena
- Pac-man
- Poor choices for cuts
- No new Mario, but yet more Pokémon

Close call, but my vote's for Angel.
 

Gam3rALO

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I picked wariofan

And is there gonna be another. Im bummed i didnt enter
 

ToothiestAura

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Angelglory: 12
++ Didn't use roster maker/better organization (King K. Rool right above Dedede? wonderful. The Star Fox reps, Pokemon and Dillon all on one row? Brilliant.)
- Missing a few icons
+ More exciting roster

Wariofan1: 7
- Cut Wolf (If you're gonna cut a Fox clone, cut Falco. Falco is much more of a clone than Wolf.)
- Cut Toon Link and gave Zelda no new 4th Rep
- Boring roster/Full Leak (This feels way too safe - you didn't try to add anyone fun or off the wall. Don't follow leaks blindly.)

My vote goes to Angelglory.
 

Angelglory

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I'll make an edited version of my roster with names and pics for the missing doods for the next round. I was just being stubborn and only using Brawl models/imports :p

And yes, dude in the bottom right corner is Shulk.
 

Groose

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A rather interesting observation: a good portion of the people here either believe in or strongly hope for "no cuts." But the people who do believe in cuts... just can't agree on who will be cut.

Cut Toon Link? What the heck, but we're going to get Tetra alongside him!
Cut Wolf? No way, Jose, Falco is more of a clone!
Cut Falco? But he has seniority over Wolf!
Cut Snake? No way is he going to let such a unique character go?
Cut Ike? But he's completely unique and starred in more than one game?
Cut Lucas? SCREW YOU, I love my Mother!
Cut Sonic? That makes no sense. We're getting Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow in this game, too, so cutting Sonic wouldn't make sense.
Cut R.O.B.? Why? He was unique and he fit in well even if people didn't like him at first.
Cut Pokemon Trainer? I...*sniff*.... I m-miss m-my Charizard!
Cut Lucario? But newfound relevancy! And he isn't a clone!
 

Pacack

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A rather interesting observation: a good portion of the people here either believe in or strongly hope for "no cuts." But the people who do believe in cuts... just can't agree on who will be cut.

Cut Toon Link? What the heck, but we're going to get Tetra alongside him!
Cut Wolf? No way, Jose, Falco is more of a clone!
Cut Falco? But he has seniority over Wolf!
Cut Snake? No way is he going to let such a unique character go?
Cut Ike? But he's completely unique and starred in more than one game?
Cut Lucas? SCREW YOU, I love my Mother!
Cut Sonic? That makes no sense. We're getting Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow in this game, too, so cutting Sonic wouldn't make sense.
Cut R.O.B.? Why? He was unique and he fit in well even if people didn't like him at first.
Cut Pokemon Trainer? I...*sniff*.... I m-miss m-my Charizard!
Cut Lucario? But newfound relevancy! And he isn't a clone!
l personaIIy think that some of those arguments are pathetic, but some of them have merit.
 

jaytalks

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A rather interesting observation: a good portion of the people here either believe in or strongly hope for "no cuts." But the people who do believe in cuts... just can't agree on who will be cut.

Cut Toon Link? What the heck, but we're going to get Tetra alongside him!
Cut Wolf? No way, Jose, Falco is more of a clone!
Cut Falco? But he has seniority over Wolf!
Cut Snake? No way is he going to let such a unique character go?
Cut Ike? But he's completely unique and starred in more than one game?
Cut Lucas? SCREW YOU, I love my Mother!
Cut Sonic? That makes no sense. We're getting Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow in this game, too, so cutting Sonic wouldn't make sense.
Cut R.O.B.? Why? He was unique and he fit in well even if people didn't like him at first.
Cut Pokemon Trainer? I...*sniff*.... I m-miss m-my Charizard!
Cut Lucario? But newfound relevancy! And he isn't a clone!
Other than ROB, Falco, and Pokemon Trainer, I have no problem with any of those other cuts. To me, the cuts are practically interchangeable. And if the give a good explanation for Pokemon Trainer, I could be convinced.
 

AEMehr

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Okay I was gonna do another special big post but then the sites server crashed

so screw it you win angelglory
 

jaytalks

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i think my match is up next. good luck to you, keybladeguy!
 

Swamp Sensei

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Hold up folks...

The server crash kinda screwed them over so...

I'm going to prolong the round until 3:00 tomorrow.
 

AEMehr

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I also don't find Ridley particularly likely because of the picture of the day shiboobop and while Kid Icarus is Sakurai's baby, it's only 2/3 games in and Pit can pretty much cover all of them.
Late but I just noticed this,
Star Fox only had two games around Melee's time. Fox also could have easily covered the Star Fox franchise too, but Falco was added.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Angelofglory

+ Shulk, Palutena, Takamaru, Ridley, Chrom, Mac, K. Rool, and Machrider
+ No cuts
+ used different model pics
+ good organization
+ 2 Retros
- not liking the aquarium blue background...
- Dillon
- No cuts
- No Namco reps
- No Isaac

I think both no cuts and cuts to be both a
WarioFan
+ Palutena, Ridley, Mii, Takamaru, K. Rool, Chrom, and at least a Namco rep.
+ Cuts
+Overall good design
- DK is too far right. Should be next to Mario.
- No Shulk or Isaac
- Cuts
- Only one Retro (seeing how we got Mr. gnW and IC in SSbM and Pit and technically ROB for Retros, I think we will get two more).
- Lack of new franchises

Overall, I think they both come dead even but I like angelofglory's roster more despite Dillon. Shulk was a huge selling point.
 

APC99

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Ugh, server crashed, but it's up again. No big post, I'll just explain it.

Even though Wariofan1 DID include many of the things I'd like in a roster, I didn't appreciate the cut of Toon Link with no new Zelda character in his spot. Groose said it right, nobody can decide who they'd like to be cut. Angelglory, however, did throw a few more curveballs than Wariofan1, including Dillon and Mach Rider, who aren't usually the most obvious choices to be in-game. Even though Wariofan1 tried to win me over with Pac-Man and Miis, I put my vote to angelglory for doing a realistic yet very different roster.
 

Groose

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What's up with people subtracting for Palutena in here?
See, we all have different preferences and opinions. Some people think that Kid Icarus is still far too small to warrant a second character; others think one is a shoo-in because it is popular and "Sakuarai's baby."
 

Hippopotasauce

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Late but I just noticed this,
Star Fox only had two games around Melee's time. Fox also could have easily covered the Star Fox franchise too, but Falco was added.
Falco was a last minute clone and was added to beef the roster.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Yeah... I'm gonna give it one more day.
 

Xenigma

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A rather interesting observation: a good portion of the people here either believe in or strongly hope for "no cuts." But the people who do believe in cuts... just can't agree on who will be cut.
This is why I tend to stick by no cuts being a likely scenario. Melee had a handful of clones that were clearly filler and were unlikely to be seriously missed, while in Brawl it seems like every character had good reason to be there, with even "filler" like Toon Link and Wolf being big additions for their respective franchises. Sakurai and company did a great job creating a roster that stands the test of time IMO, and as such I'm inclined to believe they are more likely to simply build upon it rather than make cuts, barring a Mewtwo-style scenario of them running out of time/resources to implement everyone.

Definitely enjoying reading all the critiques here and seeing how much opinion varies on roster size/cuts/retros/etc. Can't wait to see this topic get back on track!
 

jaytalks

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Yeah... I'm gonna give it one more day.
looks like it got a few weeks.

on that note, I would like to know about changes to the roster. Toad was revealed as an attack of Peach's so I would like to change my roster if this contest is still happening. Do I get to change my whole roster or just Toad's slot. My roster was made with five Mario characters and five Pokemon character slots in mind. So I kind of would like to remove a pokemon as well (and maybe change it a little bit, as I tried to have at least one non generation 1 pokemon), since I don't see any other Mario reps besides Toad at the moment.
 
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