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SmashBoards Community Echo Voting Thread: Part 48 Shulk

Who should be Robin's Echo?


  • Total voters
    108

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
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ok a lot of those mewtwo choices feel a bit random, i voted for mew cause i do love the little guy

as game and watch im not sure the is a viable choice for an echo beyond a hypothetical second character based of the G&W games like a ms game and watch or something
 

CaptainAmerica

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TomOfHyrule
Zeraora would work...maybe better for Lucario though. Probably Shadow Mewtwo is best.

GnW I can't think of anyone. Maybe paper Mario, but that's a stretch of gargantuan proportions.
 

PeridotGX

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I vote Gygas. Any reason there's both him and Gigue? It's the same person.

Anyways I nominate Maxwell from Scribblenauts. It's not ideal but it could work.
 
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Mastermiine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
493
So, I like to take all suggestions and make sure people don't feel left out. Do you guys want me to start leaving some out of the ones that for sure won't make sense?
 

MacDaddyNook

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
1,197
Can't think of any character similar enough and iconic enough to make an Echo for this one.
 

RidleyKraid187

Smash Journeyman
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May 24, 2014
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Lost
I don't play mother and they were both sugessted. I did not do background checks on them so I put them both up.
If that's the case, then I would recommend combining the totals that they both get. Regardless of which button they happen to press, they're thinking of the same character (And the same form of that character), and as arbitrary as it is, it would be a disservice to declare, say, Shadow Mewtwo (who's currently "1st place" with 12 Votes) the "Winner", when the votes for Giegue/Mother 1 Giygas are split up amongst two slots (When combined, Giegue/Giygas is currently "winning" with 18 Votes).
 
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Vingag

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 2, 2018
Messages
102
How would Nihilego even work?
...Nihelego? You mean with Lusamine inside it? I really can't see this being an Echo, so I voted Shadow Mewtwo.
I think this one's coming from me. Mostly I was trying to think of a Pokemon who would 1) Be likely to make it in, 2) Had a vague body shape that maybe could be placed on top of Mewtwo, and 3) Maybe had some kind of energy attack? Was I grasping when I suggested it? Yes. Do I know that much about Nihilego? No. Do I like the design of Nihilego and think it'd make an interesting addition to Smash? Yes!

In fact... It's Moveset time!
So with most of the grabs, arials, tilts, etc. most of Mewtwo's moves can still be used, just instead of the moves being "infused with dark energy", they'd be infused with poison. Dark energy is purple, poison is purple, they're practically the same thing!
Let's look into the specials:

Neutral Special*: Mewtwo's is Shadow Ball, I'm going to say Nihilego's would be Power Gem. Charge it up, fire off a beam of gem light. Similar enough, if not to Mewtwo's then definitely to plenty of other characters.

Side Special: Mewtwo's is Confusion, Nihilego's could be one of a few. First, Psywave. It'd function similarly by using a psychic attack to lift opponents of act as a shield. If we want to go a bit outside of Mewtwo's confusion animation but would still act in a similar fashion: Constrict or TIckle, Nihilego would use it's tentacles instead of psychic energy to toss fighter around or stop incoming projectiles.

Up Special: Mewtwo's is Teleport. Nihilego could perhaps use Substitute? They're able to learn it through TM so... OK Nihilego doesn't have a good stand in for Teleport, so let's look at some other Up Specials we could take and use (Chrom takes moves from multiple sources, so it's possible for echoes). Let's take... Greninja's Hydro Pump? Instead of shooting out spurts of water, though, Nihilego would use Acid Spray and shoot out spurts of Purple acid. It would function nearly identically, only have a purple re-skin.

Down Special: Mewtwo has Disable. In terms of having a similar in-Pokemon move that could work, Nihilego doesn't have one. However, looking at how Disable works in Smash, Nihilego could use Toxic Spikes. Nihilego's lobe would glow slightly purple and a nearby fighter would be knocked back and surrounded briefly in purple, denoting a toxic spike having been fired at them.

*Other idea for a Neutral special. Again, see the note on Chrom, one echo can take moves accross characters. Nihilego is known for absorbing lifeforms- for taking their power after eating them- almost like... Kirby? What if Nihilego's Neutral special was a re-brand of Kirby's inhale? Nihilego would grab a fighter, absorb them briefly into it's lobe, and would take their Neutral and maybe even have a type of "hat" floating inside of it.

For the Final Smash, there's no way around it we'd have to use either Beast Boost or Venom Drench. However, thanks to Dark Pit we know that echoes can not only have different final smashes, but completely unique final smashes. Beast Boost is the clear choice, however I'm not sure how it'd translate into Smash. Probably surround Nihilego with an aura and have it zoom around onstage, Pikachu like. It's not really what Beast Boost does, but it... sort of works? More translatable is Venom Drench, where Nihilego would spew a bunch of acid and poison on an opponent dealing massive damage.

Is it a perfect echo? No. Is this what Nihilego fans would want? Probably not. But, the echo could exist, it's an option for people to vote on, and we'd get a cool alien jellyfish as a fighter. I count that as a win!
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Not sure, I’ll get back to you when I find out.
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I think this one's coming from me. Mostly I was trying to think of a Pokemon who would 1) Be likely to make it in, 2) Had a vague body shape that maybe could be placed on top of Mewtwo, and 3) Maybe had some kind of energy attack? Was I grasping when I suggested it? Yes. Do I know that much about Nihilego? No. Do I like the design of Nihilego and think it'd make an interesting addition to Smash? Yes!

In fact... It's Moveset time!
So with most of the grabs, arials, tilts, etc. most of Mewtwo's moves can still be used, just instead of the moves being "infused with dark energy", they'd be infused with poison. Dark energy is purple, poison is purple, they're practically the same thing!
Let's look into the specials:

Neutral Special*: Mewtwo's is Shadow Ball, I'm going to say Nihilego's would be Power Gem. Charge it up, fire off a beam of gem light. Similar enough, if not to Mewtwo's then definitely to plenty of other characters.

Side Special: Mewtwo's is Confusion, Nihilego's could be one of a few. First, Psywave. It'd function similarly by using a psychic attack to lift opponents of act as a shield. If we want to go a bit outside of Mewtwo's confusion animation but would still act in a similar fashion: Constrict or TIckle, Nihilego would use it's tentacles instead of psychic energy to toss fighter around or stop incoming projectiles.

Up Special: Mewtwo's is Teleport. Nihilego could perhaps use Substitute? They're able to learn it through TM so... OK Nihilego doesn't have a good stand in for Teleport, so let's look at some other Up Specials we could take and use (Chrom takes moves from multiple sources, so it's possible for echoes). Let's take... Greninja's Hydro Pump? Instead of shooting out spurts of water, though, Nihilego would use Acid Spray and shoot out spurts of Purple acid. It would function nearly identically, only have a purple re-skin.

Down Special: Mewtwo has Disable. In terms of having a similar in-Pokemon move that could work, Nihilego doesn't have one. However, looking at how Disable works in Smash, Nihilego could use Toxic Spikes. Nihilego's lobe would glow slightly purple and a nearby fighter would be knocked back and surrounded briefly in purple, denoting a toxic spike having been fired at them.

*Other idea for a Neutral special. Again, see the note on Chrom, one echo can take moves accross characters. Nihilego is known for absorbing lifeforms- for taking their power after eating them- almost like... Kirby? What if Nihilego's Neutral special was a re-brand of Kirby's inhale? Nihilego would grab a fighter, absorb them briefly into it's lobe, and would take their Neutral and maybe even have a type of "hat" floating inside of it.

For the Final Smash, there's no way around it we'd have to use either Beast Boost or Venom Drench. However, thanks to Dark Pit we know that echoes can not only have different final smashes, but completely unique final smashes. Beast Boost is the clear choice, however I'm not sure how it'd translate into Smash. Probably surround Nihilego with an aura and have it zoom around onstage, Pikachu like. It's not really what Beast Boost does, but it... sort of works? More translatable is Venom Drench, where Nihilego would spew a bunch of acid and poison on an opponent dealing massive damage.

Is it a perfect echo? No. Is this what Nihilego fans would want? Probably not. But, the echo could exist, it's an option for people to vote on, and we'd get a cool alien jellyfish as a fighter. I count that as a win!
If we have to change every single special move of a fighter, I don't think we can call it even an Echo any more. This becomes more of a Mario/Dr. Mario than a Marth/Lucina
 

Mastermiine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
493
ok a lot of those mewtwo choices feel a bit random, i voted for mew cause i do love the little guy

as game and watch im not sure the is a viable choice for an echo beyond a hypothetical second character based of the G&W games like a ms game and watch or something
Does Ms. Game & Watch Actually Exist?

Zeraora would work...maybe better for Lucario though. Probably Shadow Mewtwo is best.

GnW I can't think of anyone. Maybe paper Mario, but that's a stretch of gargantuan proportions.
Do you want me to add Paper Mario to the list?
 

CaptainAmerica

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Do you want me to add Paper Mario to the list?
Honestly, add whoever you want. I don't like to vote without having a suggestion for the next one, but I really can't think of anybody for GnW. I'm probably gonna vote "no echo needed" since I can't consider anyone who'd fit reasonably.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
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Jun 29, 2012
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Does Ms. Game & Watch Actually Exist?
no but the name mr game and watch was first used in smash so it would have been the same idea, anyway i voted for no viable option

now meta knight echo nominees there are three of the top of my head thatd work, dark meta knight, galactic knight and morpho knight
 

MacDaddyNook

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Apr 24, 2015
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There is absolutely zero characters that are remotely close to Mr. Game & Watch. He's just too unique.
 

Sari

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Dark Meta Knight and Galacta Knight are the only viable MK echos I can think of.
 

CaptainAmerica

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Game and Watch doesn't have a viable choice.

Meta Knight could get Galacta Knight or Dark Meta Knight easily. If you wanted to be creative, you may be able to fit other caped Kirby characters like Magolor or Dark Matter, but those are a bit more hand-wavey.
 

Vingag

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 2, 2018
Messages
102
I ended voting for Stanley the Bugman, though he wouldn't work at all as an echo. G&W and Wii Fit Trainer are a few of the only ones that I can think of who simply do not have an echo for them.

For Meta Knight: I second a vote for Dark Matter, though I think the character would be massively underserved as just an echo. Otherwise we already have an alt costume of Galacta Knight which may disqualify him, which is too bad because Galacta Knight is in a good spot to be an echo (Unique enough to have some neat re-skins of MK's attacks, but not unique enough to justify being their own character).
 

Heatswave

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
155
Stanley could work as a semi-clone, but not as an echo imo. Paper Mario? No way. So no viable choice for me.
Galacta Knight, Dark Meta Knight, ... yeah, thats all I can think of right know.
 

Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
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New Jersey
Mr. Game and Watch's echo would be... if she were his Echo, and not unique, Princess Shokora, or rather the form she takes in the shopkeep.

No Meta Knight nominations besides Dark Meta Knight.
 

LoZ00

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
309
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Italy
I voted no echo for G&W. How are you supposed to create an Echo for such a unique fighter?
For MK, I’d love to see Morpho Knight, easily to coolest version of MK
 

PeridotGX

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Any reason you didn't put Maxwell from Scribblenauts on the poll? He's the only one that even close to fits.

Anyway I nominate Morpho Knight
 

MrRoidley

Smash Ace
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Mar 12, 2018
Messages
548
how would any of those fit? lol

in any case, Morpho Knight, since Galacta is already a costume (down to the mask design)
 
Last edited:

BirthNote

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I think this one's coming from me. Mostly I was trying to think of a Pokemon who would 1) Be likely to make it in, 2) Had a vague body shape that maybe could be placed on top of Mewtwo, and 3) Maybe had some kind of energy attack? Was I grasping when I suggested it? Yes. Do I know that much about Nihilego? No. Do I like the design of Nihilego and think it'd make an interesting addition to Smash? Yes!

In fact... It's Moveset time!
So with most of the grabs, arials, tilts, etc. most of Mewtwo's moves can still be used, just instead of the moves being "infused with dark energy", they'd be infused with poison. Dark energy is purple, poison is purple, they're practically the same thing!
Let's look into the specials:

Neutral Special*: Mewtwo's is Shadow Ball, I'm going to say Nihilego's would be Power Gem. Charge it up, fire off a beam of gem light. Similar enough, if not to Mewtwo's then definitely to plenty of other characters.

Side Special: Mewtwo's is Confusion, Nihilego's could be one of a few. First, Psywave. It'd function similarly by using a psychic attack to lift opponents of act as a shield. If we want to go a bit outside of Mewtwo's confusion animation but would still act in a similar fashion: Constrict or TIckle, Nihilego would use it's tentacles instead of psychic energy to toss fighter around or stop incoming projectiles.

Up Special: Mewtwo's is Teleport. Nihilego could perhaps use Substitute? They're able to learn it through TM so... OK Nihilego doesn't have a good stand in for Teleport, so let's look at some other Up Specials we could take and use (Chrom takes moves from multiple sources, so it's possible for echoes). Let's take... Greninja's Hydro Pump? Instead of shooting out spurts of water, though, Nihilego would use Acid Spray and shoot out spurts of Purple acid. It would function nearly identically, only have a purple re-skin.

Down Special: Mewtwo has Disable. In terms of having a similar in-Pokemon move that could work, Nihilego doesn't have one. However, looking at how Disable works in Smash, Nihilego could use Toxic Spikes. Nihilego's lobe would glow slightly purple and a nearby fighter would be knocked back and surrounded briefly in purple, denoting a toxic spike having been fired at them.

*Other idea for a Neutral special. Again, see the note on Chrom, one echo can take moves accross characters. Nihilego is known for absorbing lifeforms- for taking their power after eating them- almost like... Kirby? What if Nihilego's Neutral special was a re-brand of Kirby's inhale? Nihilego would grab a fighter, absorb them briefly into it's lobe, and would take their Neutral and maybe even have a type of "hat" floating inside of it.

For the Final Smash, there's no way around it we'd have to use either Beast Boost or Venom Drench. However, thanks to Dark Pit we know that echoes can not only have different final smashes, but completely unique final smashes. Beast Boost is the clear choice, however I'm not sure how it'd translate into Smash. Probably surround Nihilego with an aura and have it zoom around onstage, Pikachu like. It's not really what Beast Boost does, but it... sort of works? More translatable is Venom Drench, where Nihilego would spew a bunch of acid and poison on an opponent dealing massive damage.

Is it a perfect echo? No. Is this what Nihilego fans would want? Probably not. But, the echo could exist, it's an option for people to vote on, and we'd get a cool alien jellyfish as a fighter. I count that as a win!
The problem here is that Echoes match the physical build of whoever they're echoing, even if it's multiple characters like Chrom sprouting from Roy and Ike. Nihilego is a giant jellyfish, Mewtwo is in simple terms an anthropomorphic kangaroo. Sure the walking and running/jumping animations should be no problem since it's all levitation, but the silhouettes don't match at all. It has more tentacles than Mewtwo has limbs and its proportions are more exaggerated than his, particularly around the "head".

While your moveset shows we can stretch Mewtwo and Greninja's specials to make them fit, they come across as having more effort than the tweaks that all Echoes have shown. Despite how different an Echo's idle and taunt animations are, their attacks sync perfectly with their base fighters', with the main difference being damage output and whatnot. That's small-scale compared to your set, and then there's the issue of normals. To imitate Mewtwo's Smashes you'd need a lot of animating to account for the tentacles that aren't being used and positioning of the jellyfish's body. There's also grabs: I doubt a multi-tentacled monster would rely on psychic grabs to hold onto foes and make items levitate; it defeats the purpose of having all those tentacles. That leads straight to throws, which Mewtwo primarily relies on psychic thrusts to launch; even his down throw would look odd on Nihilego unless it's animated as slamming all its tentacles into the victim.

We haven't seen any Echoes that don't match the body and silhouette of their base fighters; using the giant jellyfish on the kangaroo's model already presents a big problem, then you have to factor in the limbs to tentacles ratio, then justifying the proportion inconsistencies as well as stretch the abilities of one or two Pokemon as we fit it onto this one. This would be too much effort for an Echo.
 

Mastermiine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
493
Also, to plan a head I am thinking of doing Pokemon trainer as one unit and you will have to submit three echo ideas.

Thoughts?
 

CaptainAmerica

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Also, to plan a head I am thinking of doing Pokemon trainer as one unit and you will have to submit three echo ideas.

Thoughts?
I know that some people may have easy ones for individual pokémon, so it may be easier to consider them separately. Especially if we're gonna think cross-series echoes.
 
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