Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[lightdrago]

To be fair, it wouldn't be that weird if Box Theory is right and we just got the characters wrong. Elma and Medusa, maybe? Or maybe Shadow as the Echo? I don't think Sonic was on the visible side of the box render...

It’d be strange, considering the Ken image leak, which I consider real.

 

[Deleted member]

Verg has all the right in the world to be oissed when he's dealing with ****ing GameFaqs. I think the only reason he's still there is because if he leaves, they win, but by the end of the speculation, he'll be able to show a huge middle finger to all of them.

 

[AugustusB]

People implying that the Smash team posted a Pokemon track to intentionally bust the music theory because 'they knew we were on to them' sound so ****ing crazy right now.

Hmmmm almost like some of them "could be" leaking false information to some leakers.

Wouldn't it be interesting if they implemented all these theories? (Music, Blog and Box) Only to bring our expectations down, just to build them back up?

 

[Espio264]

When has trying to put the things Sakurai does into a pattern and then expecting it to churn out results ever worked before? Especially during speculation for the last few games?

Sure, Sakurai was probably holding series music for certain newcomers, and it established a pattern of sorts. This week he decided to put up a Pokémon track. The theory isn’t dead until Inceneroar is revealed, but that doesn’t make it any less made up.

The box is made up nonsense exhibit B. Yes there’s a pattern. Yes, it points to Ken. Yes, I believe Ken is in and the box is deliberately holding his spot. That doesn’t mean that there’s only one character left. It’s like people who believe in a flat earth, since they can’t see beyond the horizon, that’s where it stops. There can’t possibly be anything else past where they consider to be the end of the world. Just no. Yes, it seems to suggest Ken is the last echo, but honestly, the few remaining plausible echoes (Dixie, Impa, Shadow, Medusa) could all be Isabelle-esque semi-clones. Why the hell not?, my argument after all is that you can’t put a pattern on what the man does.

Like 8 player Smash, and then 7 DLC fighters? Really man?

Last, blog theory. I love it. Math. But when the math runs out, once again we can’t pretend that Sakurai is gonna do, or in fact has to do what the algorithm predicts.

Music theory isn’t dead. You can’t prove it ever was. I can’t murder your imaginary friend. If you believe that I did, it hurts in your heart, but it was never real in the first place. You can hold tight to your theories and hope they yield results, but stop the arguments back and forth about this proves or disproves this or that.

In the end, they’re Sakurai’s patterns to break. He’ll tell you they were never patterns in the first place. Just be excited for what’s coming, you won’t get banned from the game if your guesses are wrong.

 

[Exalt4747]

Yeah, I don't blame him at all. After I made some tweets about the box theory GameFaqs users made several threads about me calling me some pretty bad stuff and I snapped back at some people. He obviously gets a lot more hate than I do, so I commend him for his patience.

Can I have a link to what he said?

 

[Deleted member]

Has anyone pointed out that Verg got yet another leak of his right, by the way? I just realized after looking at Chrono.'s sig. He knew the entire DLC roster for DBZ Fighterz; right down to Android 17 added; specifically the Park Ranger; despite him already being apart of 18's attacks.

Whether he gets he rest of the info right or wrong is anyone's guess, but there's absolutely nobody who can deny the fact that he does indeed have sources without straight up lying.

Now we have Pokemon Let's Go release in November, a new mainline entry coming in 2019, and the official 808th pokemon; one from the yet unannounced Gen 8, in Meltan. The next Pokemon centered direct is coming soon. And when it does, we'll know for certain whether Smash will have a new Pokemon rep since they wouldn't waste the opportunity to show it off in a pokemon centered Direct. At that point, we'll know. If its Incineroar, there's no more doubting Vergeben. If its not, then it seems his information-gathering was wrong on the pokemon rep. He'd still be right on everything else.

 

[CannonStreak]

So, who started the music theory to begin with? I am wondering where that theory came from.

 

[Exalt4747]

Has anyone pointed out that Verg got yet another leak of his right, by the way? I just realized after looking at Chrono.'s sig. He knew the entire DLC roster for DBZ Fighterz; right down to Android 17 added; specifically the Park Ranger; despite him already being apart of 18's attacks.

Wait...that was him?

 

[Deleted member]

YI don't think you understand just how damn weird would be

Not saying it's likely, just a possibility like all the other theories.
Ken leak looks convincing and I believe it personally, but Smash 3DS leak was pretty good as well. Again, not saying it's likely, just an idea.

Also, what makes it weirder than Ken and Incineroar?

 

[Shroob]

There's no connection whatsoever.
Incineroar is in the game.

Well, Verg doesn't believe in the music theory at all.


This will be interesting come next Direct.

 

[Luigi The President]

Not saying it's likely, just a possibility like all the other theories.
Ken leak looks convincing and I believe it personally, but Smash 3DS leak was pretty good as well. Again, not saying it's likely, just an idea.

Also, what makes it weirder than Ken and Incineroar?

Elma and Medusa?
Well, for one thing, Pokemon is the biggest media franchise ever, and I'd definitely find it weird if a character from Xenoblade's second game got in before a Seventh Generation Pokemon. But that's just my opinion.

Medusa vs Ken I can kinda see as less weird but still find it hard to believe we'd see a second KI Echo instead of a brand new easily-done SF Echo-the original Echo in fact.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Has anyone pointed out that Verg got yet another leak of his right, by the way? I just realized after looking at Chrono.'s sig. He knew the entire DLC roster for DBZ Fighterz; right down to Android 17 added; specifically the Park Ranger; despite him already being apart of 18's attacks.

Whether he gets he rest of the info right or wrong is anyone's guess, but there's absolutely nobody who can deny the fact that he does indeed have sources without straight up lying.

Now we have Pokemon Let's Go release in November, a new mainline entry coming in 2019, and the official 808th pokemon; one from the yet unannounced Gen 8, in Meltan. The next Pokemon centered direct is coming soon. And when it does, we'll know for certain whether Smash will have a new Pokemon rep since they wouldn't waste the opportunity to show it off in a pokemon centered Direct. At that point, we'll know. If its Incineroar, there's no more doubting Vergeben. If its not, then it seems his information-gathering was wrong on the pokemon rep. He'd still be right on everything else.

And dont forget soul Calibur 5 and TMNT in Injustice 2.. speaking of how dope would it be to have Nightmare in Smash, back during DLC speculation i was hoping if namco got a second rep itd be him over Heihachi.

 

[Spinosaurus]

To be fair, it wouldn't be that weird if Box Theory is right and we just got the characters wrong. Elma and Medusa, maybe? Or maybe Shadow as the Echo? I don't think Sonic was on the visible side of the box render...

Oh yeah, if both the box theory and music theory are real then it just means it's Elma or an unrepped franchise character.

Ken absolutely is real though, Shadow doesn't fit the ordering at all, and the Ken image is pretty damning. Ken is also a Verge character, so that still bodes well for the tiger for what it's worth.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait...that was him?

Yeah. he knew each pairing, too.
Broly/Bardock (thogh in all fairness, those were pretty predictable lol)
Vegito/Zamasu
Base Goku/Base Vegeta (which I knew back at the time probably meant 'Saiyan Saga' Goku & Vegeta
and finally
Cooler/#17

The last pair of which seemed really odd to people since why would 17 be paired with cooler? He didn't technically pair those; he just had said they were the last two and assumed they were paired like the others. I don't know if they were actually released together or not.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Yeah. he knew each pairing, too.
Broly/Bardock (thogh in all fairness, those were pretty predictable lol)
Vegito/Zamasu
Base Goku/Base Vegeta (which I knew back at the time probably meant 'Saiyan Saga' Goku & Vegeta
and finally
Cooler/#17

The last pair of which seemed really odd to people since why would 17 be paired with cooler? He didn't technically pair those; he just had said they were the last two and assumed they were paired like the others. I don't know if they were actually released together or not.

The two Cooler movies came out around the time of the Android Saga (before Cell took the scene even) so theres that.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Sakurai should post a pokemon remix tonight to destroy all speculation.

Well Ill be damned. You called it, have an internet 'cred point! Dont spend it all on one thread.

 

[NintenRob]

I mean, GameFAQs was already toxic, but...Wow...

Also, how Vergeben using tism as in autism, as I think he is implying? That's a big low, even for him.

I mean, they are doing this over a theory which may still be true or may not be true at all. Like, come on!

As someone with a form of Autism, I find it inexcusable. I don't care if he's sick of Gamefaqs, if he doesn't like it he shouldn't have leaked anything in the first place (or at least get off gamefaqs)

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

RE: Verge and DBFZ

As much as I believe Verge's Smash leaks, I'm pretty sure there were some posts on r/Kappa heavily implying he edited his posts about the DBFZ DLC leaks after the characters were datamined from the game; doesn't mean much though, since he's gotten basically everything right so far regarding Smash.


He also accurately leaked that a new Samurai Shodown game would be coming out, but no one seems to have reported on that tho...

 

[Luigi The President]

RE: Verge and DBFZ

As much as I believe Verge's Smash leaks, I'm pretty sure there were some posts on r/Kappa heavily implying he edited his posts about the DBFZ DLC leaks after the characters were datamined from the game; doesn't mean much though, since he's gotten basically everything right so far regarding Smash.


He also accurately leaked that a new Samurai Shodown game would be coming out, but no one seems to have reported on that...

Nahh I was there for Verge's first leaks.

Those were definitely the picks he had.

 

[Z25]

Has anyone pointed out that Verg got yet another leak of his right, by the way? I just realized after looking at Chrono.'s sig. He knew the entire DLC roster for DBZ Fighterz; right down to Android 17 added; specifically the Park Ranger; despite him already being apart of 18's attacks.

Whether he gets he rest of the info right or wrong is anyone's guess, but there's absolutely nobody who can deny the fact that he does indeed have sources without straight up lying.

Now we have Pokemon Let's Go release in November, a new mainline entry coming in 2019, and the official 808th pokemon; one from the yet unannounced Gen 8, in Meltan. The next Pokemon centered direct is coming soon. And when it does, we'll know for certain whether Smash will have a new Pokemon rep since they wouldn't waste the opportunity to show it off in a pokemon centered Direct. At that point, we'll know. If its Incineroar, there's no more doubting Vergeben. If its not, then it seems his information-gathering was wrong on the pokemon rep. He'd still be right on everything else.

Umm yes they would.

Remember when Impa was revealed in the hyrule warriors direct? Or when insert mario character was coming in a mario direct, or inklings in the spaltoon direct?

Nintendo never shows smash outside of smash directs and main directs. Directs focused on franchises that aren’t smash stick to their content as smash would steal the spotlight.

 

[Deleted member]

The two Cooler movies came out around the time of the Android Saga (before Cell took the scene even) so theres that.

I mean...I guess? But that was a long time ago.

One thing I didnt realize until recently was that a lot of the earlier DBZ movies were like mini-retellings of an anime arc.
Lord Slug- King Piccolo Saga
Cooler's Revenge- Frieza Saga
Super Android 13- Cell Saga
Fusion: Reborn- Buu Saga

Its actually hilarious when you realize it too; Fusion: Reborn is the easiest example to see after the fact. It featured a monstrously powerful, fat, child-like being that ended up slimming down to a more evil, intimidating-looking form that only was defeated after Goku & Vegeta fused. Now it may not be word-for-word the buu Saga, but that is pretty damn close to how things played out!

 

[Nap_]

Just... Why the heck the music theory was even considerated as something solid? The music updates were following a patron based on the characters which left for reveal? What kind of mental process was used by the Smash team for go with it? I'm seeing the scene.
'No, we are not going to update with X saga music till show the new fighter. Echoes doesn't mind. Keep it in mind. Very important, we're avoiding leaks this time but nobody will see this for sure'. 'Yes Mr. Sakurai'.
Animal Crossing music was delayed with Isabelle just for avoiding speculation about her, if you see some AC music just right after to a delayed newcomer update it won't be difficult to guess who is next.
Of course they knew that somebody will check the code looking for updates, that's why the music was also delayed, not for a fan theory.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So wait they got Steve's music in Ultimate? Whelp its offical folks I think Steve is in. In that case my final prediction for base is this.

Unique Fighters:
69: Steve (If he's revealed at Minecon other he'd probably be 70)
70: Incineroar
71: Elma
72: Geno

Echo Fighters:
36e: Dixie Kong
38e: Shadow
54e: Medusa
60e: Ken

Rounds out to 80 fighters then in total (85 if we count Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard and Mii Fighters separate).

Hope Banjo still makes DLC in this case.

 

[Deleted member]

Elma and Medusa?
Well, for one thing, Pokemon is the biggest media franchise ever, and I'd definitely find it weird if a character from Xenoblade's second game got in before a Seventh Generation Pokemon. But that's just my opinion.

Medusa vs Ken I can kinda see as less weird but still find it hard to believe we'd see a second KI Echo instead of a brand new easily-done SF Echo-the original Echo in fact.

I mean, it's not like Pokemon wouldn't have gotten anything, as three of it's veterans came back and it's getting new music and stuff. I'm probably biased, though, as I would prefer pretty much anything over a Pokemon newcomer. I love Pokemon, but to be honest a new Pokemon is typical for Smash and I much prefer being surprised. That's just me, though; I'm sure Incineroar will be fun for people who like it, and who knows? Sakurai changed my mind on Simon, maybe he'll do it again with Incineroar. I was one of the people who disliked Duck Hunt Dog's design and presence in Smash, but then I played them and started growing attached to them. Nintendo and Sakurai seem to make me end up wanting things I didn't know I wanted, lol. If nothing else, I am eager for the memes Incineroar will bring.

 

[Nekoo]

As someone with a form of Autism, I find it inexcusable. I don't care if he's sick of Gamefaqs, if he doesn't like it he shouldn't have leaked anything in the first place (or at least get off gamefaqs)

Not to be an Ass but people in GameFaqs are truly acting like Monkeys.
Beside he's staying there since he's been used to be there before.
GameFaqs turned to **** in the previous years and around the Smash DLC for the smash community.

Even 4chan have better Smash discussion in general.

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean, it's not like Pokemon wouldn't have gotten anything, as three of it's veterans came back and it's getting new music and stuff. I'm probably biased, though, as I would prefer pretty much anything over a Pokemon newcomer. I love Pokemon, but to be honest a new Pokemon is typical for Smash and I much prefer being surprised. That's just me, though; I'm sure Incineroar will be fun for people who like it, and who knows? Sakurai changed my mind on Simon, maybe he'll do it again with Incineroar. I was one of the people who disliked Duck Hunt Dog's design and presence in Smash, but then I played them and started growing attached to them. Nintendo and Sakurai seem to make me end up wanting things I didn't know I wanted, lol. If nothing else, I am eager for the memes Incineroar will bring.

It doesn't really matter if Pokemon got everything back. TPC wants to see a newcomer to promote their latest generation. And they're the TPC. It's like a mob boss; they get what they want. It doesn't really matter what your opinion of it is (hope this isn't harsh at all)
I personally love Incineroar, I hope you come to like him as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Reminder Verg also predicted a Castlevania collection with SotN as its main game. And remember what was announced just recently?

 

[Opossum]

“Celica is one of the protagonists of Gaiden, along side Alm. She is a Priest, a class capable of using swords and”
“capable of using swords”
“swords”

To be fair, while Robin is shown to be equally adept at both swords and magic, Celica's primary weapon has always been magic. Plus, theoretically, the fact that she does tomeless casting gives more range for her to do cool spell animations outside of her specials.

 

[Noipoi]

I never really bought into music theory, if I did I wouldn't believe in Geno anymore.
Incineroar's on his way, lads.

Hopefully

 

[Deleted member]

Umm yes they would.

Remember when Impa was revealed in the hyrule warriors direct? Or when insert mario character was coming in a mario direct, or inklings in the spaltoon direct?

Nintendo never shows smash outside of smash directs and main directs. Directs focused on franchises that aren’t smash stick to their content as smash would steal the spotlight.

Its possible, but with so little time left, and with how much hype Pokemon directs usually bring anyway, I don't think they'd miss out on riding the hype train by shoving a Smash reveal in there as well. (They could, but the chances are slim with only 2 months till release)

 

[KingofKoopas]

I mean...I guess? But that was a long time ago.

One thing I didnt realize until recently was that a lot of the earlier DBZ movies were like mini-retellings of an anime arc.
Lord Slug- King Piccolo Saga
Cooler's Revenge- Frieza Saga
Super Android 13- Cell Saga
Fusion: Reborn- Buu Saga

Its actually hilarious when you realize it too; Fusion: Reborn is the easiest example to see after the fact. It featured a monstrously powerful, fat, child-like being that ended up slimming down to a more evil, intimidating-looking form that only was defeated after Goku & Vegeta fused. Now it may not be word-for-word the buu Saga, but that is pretty damn close to how things played out!

yeah its kind of a joke really, though the really good movies got totally original stories.

Dead Zone
World's Strongest
Bojack Unbound
The Latest Two

also can sort of count Tree of Might in there as the original Goku Black story, though it has elements of when Raditz came to earth.

 

[CannonStreak]

As someone with a form of Autism, I find it inexcusable. I don't care if he's sick of Gamefaqs, if he doesn't like it he shouldn't have leaked anything in the first place (or at least get off gamefaqs)

I know what you mean. I happen to be autistic as well, and I have had my challenges being an autistic person. But I am nowhere as dumb as some people make autistic people to be. That is why I find this inexcusable as well. EDIT: Autistic people can be pretty smart, actually.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah its kind of a joke really, though the really good movies got totally original stories.

Dead Zone
World's Strongest
Bojack Unbound
The Latest Two

also can sort of count Tree of Might in there as the original Goku Black story, though it has elements of when Raditz came to earth.

Yeah, and I hate to go off topic, but the one coming? The one making Broly canon? That one looks pretty epic.

 

[Exalt4747]

Yeah. he knew each pairing, too.
Broly/Bardock (thogh in all fairness, those were pretty predictable lol)
Vegito/Zamasu
Base Goku/Base Vegeta (which I knew back at the time probably meant 'Saiyan Saga' Goku & Vegeta
and finally
Cooler/#17

The last pair of which seemed really odd to people since why would 17 be paired with cooler? He didn't technically pair those; he just had said they were the last two and assumed they were paired like the others. I don't know if they were actually released together or not.

If nothing else, they're both brothers to characters who are already in.

 

[iruchii]

So wait they got Steve's music in Ultimate?

I can't tell if you're joking or not at this point but it's Steven's Battle Theme from Pokémon, not Minecraft Steve.

 

[Shroob]

As someone with a form of Autism, I find it inexcusable. I don't care if he's sick of Gamefaqs, if he doesn't like it he shouldn't have leaked anything in the first place (or at least get off gamefaqs)

Mate, I got autism too, and it's 2018.


Maybe I've just got thick skin, but seeing someone use 'autism' as an insult doesn't #trigger me.


Poor taste? Yeah, but when you're pissed, you say ****.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Reminder Verg also predicted a Castlevania collection with SotN as its main game. And remember what was announced just recently?

I thought that still was a leak, not official yet. Is there a Trailer?

 

[CosmicQuark]

If we take a scientific approach to these fan theories (hypotheses), it's perfectly okay to change our theories to conform to facts than the other way around. And as always, to remain open minded, but not so open that our brains fall out.

Problem at this point is we don't have many facts--just rumors to compare it to. Credible rumors, but rumors nonetheless.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can't tell if you're joking or not at this point but it's Steven's Battle Theme from Pokémon, not Minecraft Steve.

Poop I apparently didn't look that carefully. Can't say I'm not surprised being how similar the names Steve and Steven are...Embarrass

 

[monadoboy]

If music theory holds, then the only plausible newcomers left are Elma and or are from unrepped franchises.

And that seems mighty sketch, to me.

I don't want to get my hopes up or anything, but I think it's slightly suspicious that a series known mostly for its music hasn't been included in the blog at this point.
Nintendo even used a music video without game footage to promote it.
More than once (There's a whole series of these)