Smash Ultimate general series discussion: Part 2: Donkey Kong (with polls)

[Quillion]

I like the Snowmads more than the Kremlings *dodges barrels from passionate DKC fans* so I'd like to request that you add Lord Fredrik as a choice in the poll at the top. He could be a Chrom-type Echo Fighter for King K. Rool, where his neutral B is adjusted (long thin ice dragons instead of large circular cannonballs) and his up-B is completely different (a large jump like the one King Dedede has) but keep everything else the same. They're both obese crown-wearing deceptively fast rulers who don't treat their minions well, so they can play alike. Plus it would be cool to have a playable viking.

I love how you're thinking outside the box but Fredrik's probably nothing more than a one-shot.

 

[Gyrom8]

If Funky Kong was ever in the game, would you prefer him as an echo fighter of DK or his own fighter?

I feel like they should at least incorporate his surfboard into his moveset. If they added him, Funky should also have his actual voice clips - having generic gorilla sounds would be even weirder than DK, as Funky's fully clothed so feels more anthropomorphised.

 

[TheYungLink]

I love how you're thinking outside the box but Fredrik's probably nothing more than a one-shot.

Yeah, it's a shame because Tropical Freeze is bar none the best DKC game. Even if we don't get that game's villain, I hope we at least get a stage from it (that isn't yet another jungle level).

 

[Sabertooth]

As someone who's probably put hundreds of hours into Tropical Freeze over both consoles, I agree it's a shame we don't have anything from it in Smash. Lord Fredrik would be a pretty neat clone character even if I'd much rather have Funky take that role.

 

[Quillion]

Grassland Groove would be a fantastic level. Of course, they're still probably going to go for jungle levels alone for whatever reason.

 

[Deleted member]

Chunky is dead.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Grassland Groove would be a fantastic level. Of course, they're still probably going to go for jungle levels alone for whatever reason.

I still think if we get a Tropical Freeze stage we're just gonna get a returning Jungle Hijinx stage with a fresh coat of ice/snow and the background/foreground gimmick removed.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Imagine this: What if DK used a launch barrel as his recovery move? Would it be better or worse, aesthetic wise?

 

[Quillion]

Imagine this: What if DK used a launch barrel as his recovery move? Would it be better or worse, aesthetic wise?

Worse. I like that DK uses no items and relies solely on brute strength. Same reason I don't want the Barrel Throw or Coconut Gun.

Seriously, no one wants Zelda to use her Light Bow, so why should anyone want DK to use projectiles or the Barrel Cannon?

 

[Glaciacott]

It's weird, when K. Rool and Dixie were both not in Smash, I found it silly when people thought vouching for Dixie outright harmed the possibility of K. Rool being in.

But now that Dixie remains and I'm super paranoid we won't actually get her, I'm terrified of the possibility we get Funky before we get Dixie. Between Funky being in Mario Kart and him getting an entire mode devoted to him and promoted in the Switch TF release, I'm really really scared that they'll just put in Funky before Dixie.

 

[Sabertooth]

When I read your post Glaciocott, my first thought was "well, that doesn't make any sense. As DK fans shouldn't we be happy about any DK character making it in?"

Then I looked inward and realized that I don't feel that way about the Mario series. Rosalina has always left me feeling cold, and if she had made it in without Bowser Jr, I would have been very annoyed. Some characters are just more interesting and appealing to different people. From my perspective, a main villain character like Bowser Jr losing out to spin-off roster filler like Rosalina (warning: my opinion) is just wrong.

I'm not in this boat with the Donkey Kong series--in fact there's not a single character I'd be disappointed to see--but after realizing my feelings toward Smash's Mario characters, I can understand your feelings now. I really don't think you have to worry--I'm sure if we get Funky at all, it will be after we've rounded out the four major players of Donkey Kong Country. It would just be weird otherwise.

 

[StormC]

I just want to say that I'm not a fan of how overblown the Donkey Kong series is among the Smash fandom. Yes, I really like the games; I love the original DKC trilogy and Retro games just about equally, I was stoked for Dixie and Cranky returning for Tropical Freeze when it was announced, and I really wish the Kremlings will come back in a future sequel to Tropical Freeze.

But why do people put DK on the level of Mario and Pokémon? I have never viewed the DK series as anything more than a fairly large branch of the greater Mario franchise. The fact that the series went on hiatus after Rare's Microsoft buyout and was firm-rebooted (more than soft rebooted but less than hard rebooted) seems to show that despite its success, it's really not a particularly important franchise.

That said, I do like Cranky, Dixie, and Funky by virtue of them being the most prominent characters in DKC after Donkey Kong and Diddy. I'd like all three of them in Smash, but I think Dixie should get top priority of the remaining DK characters.

The fact that Nintendo doesn’t have the best history of treating the franchise right doesn’t mean it isn’t important. DKCR sold more than the entire Prime Trilogy combined and was a big part of the 2D platformers revival of the last decade. The original DKC was also pivotal in winning the console wars with Sega in the 90s.

When they put out an honest to goodness DKC game, people love it. But I’ve never seen anybody compare it to Mario and Pokemon, nothing compares to those two.

 

[Quillion]

The fact that Nintendo doesn’t have the best history of treating the franchise...

What do you mean by "not treating the franchise right"? Nintendo had nowhere to take the franchise after Rare left, but at least they were starting to integrate elements of DK into the extendes Mario franchise.

Nintendo rebooting the franchise and continuing from there was also the best thing they did to the DK franchise. The only thing left to do is to bring back the Kremlings.

 

[StormC]

What do you mean by "not treating the franchise right"? Nintendo had nowhere to take the franchise after Rare left, but at least they were starting to integrate elements of DK into the extendes Mario franchise.

Nintendo rebooting the franchise and continuing from there was also the best thing they did to the DK franchise. The only thing left to do is to bring back the Kremlings.

Jungle Beat was an attempt to erase Rare's legacy with the series. The developers outright said they didn't consider characters besides DK "fresh enough" for modern audiences. The series spent a decade in spin-off hell despite arguably being the most prominent Nintendo franchise during the 90s.

 

[Quillion]

Jungle Beat was an attempt to erase Rare's legacy with the series. The developers outright said they didn't consider characters besides DK "fresh enough" for modern audiences. The series spent a decade in spin-off hell despite arguably being the most prominent Nintendo franchise during the 90s.

That was just one time. They still backpedaled on it, but there was no developer that could step up for DK after Rare's buyout until Retro.

 

[Sabertooth]

I love all the good DK stages we currently have. Obviously I'd get rid of 75m and I think most people would agree, and many don't even consider that a DK stage since it's from the Arcade era and not Country.

How would you guys feel about a Lord Fredrik echo for K Rool that replaces the blunderbuss with the ice horn and the helicopter backpack with something more thematically appropriate?

 

[TheYungLink]

I love all the good DK stages we currently have. Obviously I'd get rid of 75m and I think most people would agree, and many don't even consider that a DK stage since it's from the Arcade era and not Country.

How would you guys feel about a Lord Fredrik echo for K Rool that replaces the blunderbuss with the ice horn and the helicopter backpack with something more thematically appropriate?

I stated multiple times that I think it'd be cool. Tropical Freeze is my favorite DKC (I've recently finished playing all of them) and now that fans aren't fearing K. Rool erasure anymore, then having the villain of TF as a K. Rool echo would be fun and harmless.

his neutral B is adjusted (long thin ice dragons instead of large circular cannonballs) and his up-B is completely different (a large jump like the one King Dedede has) but keep everything else the same. They're both obese crown-wearing deceptively fast rulers who don't treat their minions well, so they can play alike. Plus it would be cool to have a playable viking.

On further inspection, since it looks like K. Rool's Helipack doesn't hurt fighters, the Dedede up B idea in hand for Fredrick might not work as it'd be TOO different. Maybe he holds onto one of his Hootz minions to fly.

 

[Sabertooth]

Oops. Sorry, didn't read that.

Yes, the Up+B would have to be something harmless and slow, so I like the idea of a Hootz propelling him much like Beat the Bird does (did) with Mega Man. Really I don't even care if he has a deep cut moveset--I just think it'd be nice to have a character from the Retro DK games, to kind of unify the cast a bit. I'd rather have Dixie and Funky, of course, but Fredrik could be cool.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Just curious, do you like the new version of Gangplank Galleon?

Spoiler

I do
I like it a lot

 

[Luigifan18]

Just curious, do you like the new version of Gangplank Galleon?

Spoiler

I do
I like it a lot

Yes, I like it. It's actually as good as Crocodile Cacophony imo, which is a very high honor.

 

[UserKev]

Cranky Kong, easily. Cranky Kong makes for unique move set potential, brings captivating codecs and has lore. He's actually necessary the more you think about the character's merits and Smash. He's legitimately missing and historically important to Nintendo.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I stated multiple times that I think it'd be cool. Tropical Freeze is my favorite DKC (I've recently finished playing all of them) and now that fans aren't fearing K. Rool erasure anymore, then having the villain of TF as a K. Rool echo would be fun and harmless.



On further inspection, since it looks like K. Rool's Helipack doesn't hurt fighters, the Dedede up B idea in hand for Fredrick might not work as it'd be TOO different. Maybe he holds onto one of his Hootz minions to fly.

I guess that could work. An echo of a villain would be neat. Although Dark Samus is technically a villain, she (or it) ecoes a hero. All of the base fighters for echoes are heroes. it would be interesting to see two villains side by side.

 

[Quillion]

I 'd personally wait until Fredrik appears in another game before he becomes playable in any capacity. And I doubt he'll even come back at all.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Yeah Fredrik ain't ever coming back and if he does he's gonna be like the boss of the snow world. Fredrik like Tiki Tong, Ghastly Kong, and Rabbid Kong were one-off never to be seen again. Now that Nintendo has realized K.Rool's popularity (they never should've doubted it in the 1st place if I'm being honest) I don't see K.Rool leaving again anytime soon. Fredrik was DEFINITELY the best out of that bunch, problem is his whole character is "Walrus K.Rool" I wouldn't be shocked if we get a 3rd DKCR game from Retro and the opening cutscene shows "Fredrik" washed up and deserted on an island only to show him removing his head and it's revealed Fredirk was a costume and K.Rool was underneath the entire time.

 

[Sabertooth]

That's...kind of a really fun idea. Reminds me of Spyro: A Hero's Tail where Gnasty Gnorc was the boss of the first world.

A new DKC with the bosses of the game made up of previous Donkey Kong villains would be so cool to see. You could have the main villains of course, but then maybe some of the more popular bosses back for a rematch (Mole Miner Max and Bashmaster?) and K Rool at the end. I don't know, might be neat.

 

[Sabertooth]

That's...kind of a really fun idea. Reminds me of Spyro: A Hero's Tail where Gnasty Gnorc was the boss of the first world.

A new DKC with the bosses of the game made up of previous Donkey Kong villains would be so cool to see. You could have the main villains of course, but then maybe some of the more popular bosses back for a rematch (Mole Miner Max and Bashmaster?) and K Rool at the end. I don't know, might be neat.

EDIT sorry for the double post. Not sure how to delete posts either.

 

[Quillion]

That's...kind of a really fun idea. Reminds me of Spyro: A Hero's Tail where Gnasty Gnorc was the boss of the first world.

A new DKC with the bosses of the game made up of previous Donkey Kong villains would be so cool to see. You could have the main villains of course, but then maybe some of the more popular bosses back for a rematch (Mole Miner Max and Bashmaster?) and K Rool at the end. I don't know, might be neat.

I've been trying to clamor for a Retro DKC game where the Kremlings return for years. It actually would be a great finale for that trilogy of the Tikis, Snowmads, and Kremlings team up on the DK Crew.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I've been trying to clamor for a Retro DKC game where the Kremlings return for years. It actually would be a great finale for that trilogy of the Tikis, Snowmads, and Kremlings team up on the DK Crew.

All this nostalgia from playing as the Kremlings in Mario Super Sluggers....

I just wish Microsoft would give Rare back to Nintendo. It's not like they benefit from having Rare anyway.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

I just wish Microsoft would give Rare back to Nintendo. It's not like they benefit from having Rare anyway.

Idk man the people at Rare that worked on DKC, Banjo, Conker, Goldeneye, Battletoads, etc. have all moved on. The company is a shell of it's former self both creatively and business wise. I don't think Rare coming back to Nintendo would be any benefit at this point. If Nintendo were to buy Rare they would have to also buy Playtonic Games and then merge the two studios to get a lot of the creative minds back together and even then that's not all of them. The Stamper Bros. moved on to do their own thing and I doubt Nintendo can get them back as well. We all just have to face facts, Rare is a dying company but we will always have the memories and old games to go back to, to play.

Besides I'd rather Retro continue making new DK games anyway (just use the Kremlings/K.Rool again). Because Tropical Freeze IMO is better than DKC, DKC3, and DK64. I say Tropical Freeze is about on par if not a tad better than DKC2. DKC2 of course has things over Tropical Freeze like atmosphere, enemies, bonus room variety, and animal buddies to change up gameplay. But Tropical Freeze IMO has better level design, controls, core gameplay, and animation. The soundtracks for both games are about on par. All Retro REALLY has to do is make less repetitive bonus rooms, better 100% unlocks (sorry concept art doesn't do it for me), bring back Kremlings, and throw in a few more animal buddies besides Rambi (like Squitter or even a new one) and of course keep David Wise on board and you will have the PERFECT DKC game IMO.

 

[Sabertooth]

If getting 100% or 200% in Tropical Freeze unlocked the ability to play as any other characters--even if just a glorified reskin--I would do it in an instant.

Unlockable characters in platformers is a dead art.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

If getting 100% or 200% in Tropical Freeze unlocked the ability to play as any other characters--even if just a glorified reskin--I would do it in an instant.

Unlockable characters in platformers is a dead art.

Agreed, Donkey Kong is cool and all but I want to play as Dixie or Diddy without having to unlock hard mode, would be nice if they let you pick them from the start.

Retro Studios games are great but I do wish they allow you to play as the others which is why I kinda preferred the method RareWare handle the character playability.

I feel like they should allow you to pick two of the available characters and both of them can take two hits (you would instantly switch to the one who's following after losing the one in lead) and whichever Kong that you find from the barrel will follow.

The only thing is that this method would need to give DK something to feel just as advantageous as the Kongs to compensate his lack of an air ability.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I wish Nintendo would stop handing off DK to other developers and pull something awesome together like they've done so many other times.