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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Shroob

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Hell, need I remind you as to such classic Japanese fan lines as:


"Captain America"~ about Ridley

"Isaac? Do the west really care about that dead series?"

"Gaogen? Is he popular in the west or something?"



We're literally two sides of a coin.
 

Swamp Sensei

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How could anyone claim that this potential list caters too much to the east, when it includes Doomguy. Doom did awful in Japan, but sold gangbusters everywhere else.
 
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Idon

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its sad That I was the biggest layton rooter and now Im juat so deflated that I tell myself he is never happening
Hey, at least you've got hopes for a future Smash title.
I'm pretty sure Atlus isn't going to get a second character from a franchise close to one already tied to one in Smash.
 

Opossum

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The worst part about so many people claiming it's "Japanese pandering" is the fact that they're not calling it Japandering.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Hey, at least you've got hopes for a future Smash title.
I'm pretty sure Atlus isn't going to get a second character from a franchise close to one already tied to one in Smash.
I'm pretty sure Atlus isn't getting a second character in general.

If Persona 5 wasn't such a huge success and Sakurai wasnt a huge fan of it, I doubt Joker would have been chosen.
 

Robertman2

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I'm pretty sure Atlus isn't getting a second character in general.

If Persona 5 wasn't such a huge success and Sakurai wasnt a huge fan of it, I doubt Joker would have been chosen.
yeah the third sega character would have been some garbage like alex kidd


inb4 the one alex kidd fan gives me **** for this
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'm pretty sure Atlus isn't getting a second character in general.

If Persona 5 wasn't such a huge success and Sakurai wasnt a huge fan of it, I doubt Joker would have been chosen.
Though I don't know if Sakurai caring about it was a key factor. We don't know enough details behind how Nintendo is selecting the characters. Or how Sakurai and them are working together to make it work. I don't think Sakurai's personal like of a series is really a factor here. At least compared to figuring out how the character can work right, which is a different thing.
 

Idon

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I'm pretty sure Atlus isn't getting a second character in general.

If Persona 5 wasn't such a huge success and Sakurai wasnt a huge fan of it, I doubt Joker would have been chosen.
Yeah, that was what I was trying to say. Should've phrased it as "especially one from another franchise closely tied to one already in Smash"
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I guess this just seems really weird to me, because there’s far less that makes this leak stand out compared to the Grinch leak, and a ton of people on here at least appear to be acting like it’s real.

I’m lost on that.
 

Fenzer

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Gotta say what I expect with DLC characters and what seems likely :

Joker, we know he's gotta get in, and persona is huge right now, but what appeals me the most is.... how will the use of Persona will be in Smash?! I think that's gonna be quite unique.... and OP (i still have shivers thinking about the fresh new Bayo sm4sh)

Erdrick, I think he's pretty much given at this point, and the idea of having a new sword and shield character who isn't a Link is very exciting. But more than that, he/she is probably gonna have MAGIC! He's gonna be like Robin.... but without books..... and with a shield !

Ryu Hayabusa? Yeah, no, I think he would be great as a NES character but.... we have two ninjas already, with Greninja and Sheik. Use legs to fight? Sheik. Use edges to fight? Kinda Greninja. I really don't think he would add that much diversity that Reggie told the dlc would bring...

Steve? I don't care if it's minecraft, that's the least charismatic character of the lot. Steve is just a walking skin with a stick in his a**. He doesn't have an animation to jump in his own game, he cannot do anything, how can you even imagine him as a character? All his tilts, smash and aerials would look the same. The only different animation he has is when he swim, and it was just a few months ago... No, that's just silly.............
But if he gets in, really, don't mind what i said, kay? ;)

And finally Doomguy.... No. Don't think so. Bye. Should i bother explain? no. huh?.... i should? .... Damn... huh... well, he's over violen- BAYONETTA - Yeah I know, she's kinda sexy, violent and not really family friendly but she gave a new type of gameplay. And Bayo2 is a Nintendo exclusivity.... I think she kinda deserved her spot. Doomguy? No, he's not fitting in.

Now who do I think could make it in? Well i'm no leaker, but I have some thinkings :

There's a genre non-represented in smash who would need some spotlight in the near futur and that's.... beat-them-all ! A genre smash knows very well ! In that categorie there's three contenders :
Final fight, but that would mean more Capcom, and more Street fighter since most characters from Final Fight got into the fighting game.
Double dragon, really iconic and one of the first ones. Could really easily give us a new way to fight with two peoples (unlike Ice Climbers and Rosalina, maybe switching between the two would be nice? Or maybe some moves with two characters...)
Street of Rage, never really got on Nintendo software, but that doesn't seem to stop Nintendo this time around. A fourth one is coming, and it would be nice to have that little push, thanks to Smash.

If what Vergeben said is true, i think we could get a Banjo-Kazooie with his boss being from Minecraft, as a two-in-a-pot package from microsoft. Would please the fans AND promote minecraft.

There's a way to get Dante also in smash, with DMC5 coming. A Switch version for it and for DMC HD Collection could be on the way, getting a way in to Dante, joining hand with his friend Bayo. Sword and guns combos could really be fun to play. Not really believing in that one but, hey, never know.

Then, imma throw a few ideas about a possible Bandai Namco rep. Them helping with smash and having just Pacman is weird, so i could really well see a character from one of those :
Tales of.... but unlikely right? Already too much jrpgs.
Soul Calibur? Hum, nah.
Tekken? More possible, but still meh.
Dark Souls? I like the idea of Solaire being a character.

Just speculating, tell me what you think about what i said ^^
 

Michael the Spikester

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So far World of Light has been a challenge (Then again I chose to do Normal mode). Few battles I've lost to and decided I'll go back to when I get better characters. Also I so far saved :ultmario::ultmarth::ultolimar::ultpacman:
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I guess this just seems really weird to me, because there’s far less that makes this leak stand out compared to the Grinch leak, and a ton of people on here at least appear to be acting like it’s real.

I’m lost on that.
Probably cause it doesn't have extremely unbelievable elements or contradicts Sakurai's statements. It actually makes sense. Nor does it have any leakers saying why it's impossible. Or a visual aid that we can dissect. The evidence towards it is also more useful with the datamine. It didn't help the Grinch leak in comparison.
 
D

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yeah the third sega character would have been some garbage like alex kidd


inb4 the one alex kidd fan gives me **** for this
Hey, that’s me!
Listen, I know I just said a few pages ago people can have opinions, but I’m going to have to make an exception here.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Gotta say what I expect with DLC characters and what seems likely :

Joker, we know he's gotta get in, and persona is huge right now, but what appeals me the most is.... how will the use of Persona will be in Smash?! I think that's gonna be quite unique.... and OP (i still have shivers thinking about the fresh new Bayo sm4sh)

Erdrick, I think he's pretty much given at this point, and the idea of having a new sword and shield character who isn't a Link is very exciting. But more than that, he/she is probably gonna have MAGIC! He's gonna be like Robin.... but without books..... and with a shield !

Ryu Hayabusa? Yeah, no, I think he would be great as a NES character but.... we have two ninjas already, with Greninja and Sheik. Use legs to fight? Sheik. Use edges to fight? Kinda Greninja. I really don't think he would add that much diversity that Reggie told the dlc would bring...

Steve? I don't care if it's minecraft, that's the least charismatic character of the lot. Steve is just a walking skin with a stick in his a**. He doesn't have an animation to jump in his own game, he cannot do anything, how can you even imagine him as a character? All his tilts, smash and aerials would look the same. The only different animation he has is when he swim, and it was just a few months ago... No, that's just silly.............
But if he gets in, really, don't mind what i said, kay? ;)

And finally Doomguy.... No. Don't think so. Bye. Should i bother explain? no. huh?.... i should? .... Damn... huh... well, he's over violen- BAYONETTA - Yeah I know, she's kinda sexy, violent and not really family friendly but she gave a new type of gameplay. And Bayo2 is a Nintendo exclusivity.... I think she kinda deserved her spot. Doomguy? No, he's not fitting in.

Now who do I think could make it in? Well i'm no leaker, but I have some thinkings :

There's a genre non-represented in smash who would need some spotlight in the near futur and that's.... beat-them-all ! A genre smash knows very well ! In that categorie there's three contenders :
Final fight, but that would mean more Capcom, and more Street fighter since most characters from Final Fight got into the fighting game.
Double dragon, really iconic and one of the first ones. Could really easily give us a new way to fight with two peoples (unlike Ice Climbers and Rosalina, maybe switching between the two would be nice? Or maybe some moves with two characters...)
Street of Rage, never really got on Nintendo software, but that doesn't seem to stop Nintendo this time around. A fourth one is coming, and it would be nice to have that little push, thanks to Smash.

If what Vergeben said is true, i think we could get a Banjo-Kazooie with his boss being from Minecraft, as a two-in-a-pot package from microsoft. Would please the fans AND promote minecraft.

There's a way to get Dante also in smash, with DMC5 coming. A Switch version for it and for DMC HD Collection could be on the way, getting a way in to Dante, joining hand with his friend Bayo. Sword and guns combos could really be fun to play. Not really believing in that one but, hey, never know.

Then, imma throw a few ideas about a possible Bandai Namco rep. Them helping with smash and having just Pacman is weird, so i could really well see a character from one of those :
Tales of.... but unlikely right? Already too much jrpgs.
Soul Calibur? Hum, nah.
Tekken? More possible, but still meh.
Dark Souls? I like the idea of Solaire being a character.

Just speculating, tell me what you think about what i said ^^
i think your dismissal of Ryu Hayabusa is uber flawed. You realize he has a unique set of physical abilities and Ninja tools that other characters don't use right?
 
D

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You know, I’m kinda bummed that Rex & Pyra probably aren’t going to get into Smash if the whole “10 Years” statement is to be believed.
 

Peeton

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Man, I kinda hate to be that guy but, if the rumor is true I’m not really interested in 3/5 of the characters this time! I like Joker cus he’s P rad and Doomguy would be freakin awesome! I’ve never had any experience with Dragon Quest, so I hope Erdrick or whatever his name is looks neat in gameplay. Ryu is kinda cool. I’ve only played him in one of the Dead or Alive games and like, 5 minutes of the NES game. I just hope he’s got some wild stuff. And Steve. He better be really ****ing funny and ridiculous like I hope he is
 

LetterO

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Ryu Hayabusa? Yeah, no, I think he would be great as a NES character but.... we have two ninjas already, with Greninja and Sheik. Use legs to fight? Sheik. Use edges to fight? Kinda Greninja. I really don't think he would add that much diversity that Reggie told the dlc would bring...
You don't just deny THE video game ninja with "we already have two ninjas".

And finally Doomguy.... No. Don't think so. Bye. Should i bother explain? no. huh?.... i should? .... Damn... huh... well, he's over violen- BAYONETTA - Yeah I know, she's kinda sexy, violent and not really family friendly but she gave a new type of gameplay. And Bayo2 is a Nintendo exclusivity.... I think she kinda deserved her spot. Doomguy? No, he's not fitting in.
Another "Doomguy is too violent" argument? Alright, here goes.
 

Idon

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Ryu Hayabusa? Yeah, no, I think he would be great as a NES character but.... we have two ninjas already, with Greninja and Sheik. Use legs to fight? Sheik. Use edges to fight? Kinda Greninja. I really don't think he would add that much diversity that Reggie told the dlc would bring...
I think you're vastly underestimating the abilities of Ryu Hayabusa, especially considering Sheik and Greninja aren't especially as ninja-focused as Ryu and who has much more to draw from especially with his dragon blade and grappels, namely the izuna drop.
And finally Doomguy.... No. Don't think so. Bye. Should i bother explain? no. huh?.... i should? .... Damn... huh... well, he's over violen- BAYONETTA - Yeah I know, she's kinda sexy, violent and not really family friendly but she gave a new type of gameplay. And Bayo2 is a Nintendo exclusivity.... I think she kinda deserved her spot. Doomguy? No, he's not fitting in.
Are you implying that Doomguy, a guy from a genre not yet realized in Smash, wouldn't give a "new type of gameplay"? And that Nintendo exclusivity makes a character more earned? Either way, gonna have to disagree with both notions.
These are some serious double standards you're holding.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Why is that exactly?
Something something design

Something something sexist

Something something ridiculous


Look, I get it, and I share some of the sentiments, but the original post is pretty much beating people while they're down and came out of nowhere.
 

Potato_

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Probably cause it doesn't have extremely unbelievable elements or contradicts Sakurai's statements. It actually makes sense. Nor does it have any leakers saying why it's impossible. Or a visual aid that we can dissect. The evidence towards it is also more useful with the datamine. It didn't help the Grinch leak in comparison.
This is exactly why. There's not enough "content" to the leak yet to determine it false outright, if that makes sense, and it's not a dumb text leak that attempts to predict Sakurai's thought process or anything like that. It largely depends on the side stuff that the leaker claims (P5 R releasing first half of 2019, the DQ games being ported, Erdrick having the Luminary alt costume, etc.) or a character reveal that isn't on the list, and that stuff can only really be disproven with time.

It also helps that there's literally nothing else in the rumor mill atm. Makes this one somewhat believable leak stand out veeeery clearly.
 

Megadoomer

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What's the source for this leak? I've seen comments that it was made after Joker was revealed, meaning that for all I know, even if a Dragon Quest hero gets included, it could just be a lucky guess given Dragon Quest's massive popularity in Japan.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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So I'm finally writing up my Steve character argument, and I figured that this part would be relevant to the current conversation about "popular" characters.
One of the most prominent arguments against Steve is that he's not a popular choice among fans, with speculators citing fan poll after fan poll to prove this. One GameFAQs user even said of polls like this,
There doesn't need to be a dozen debates about who's popular and who isn't when we have tons of objective data. Popularity isn't an opinion.
Oh GameFAQs how you never cease to amuse me.

All of these polls fall into the same trap of being contained within the "Smash Bubble" as myself and others have coined it. What exactly is the "Smash Bubble" though? If I had to define it, I would as such:
Smash Bubble
noun
The portion of the Super Smash Brothers fandom contained to websites such as Smashboards, GameFAQs, Reddit, 4chan, and other focused websites
While the contribution of these focused fans isn't to be ignored, as evidenced by K. Rool's immense Ballot presence in part due to the Kutthroat's Ballot Campaign and Sakurai's statements on Ridley and Geno, a flaw of the fanbase at large is a general insistence that those within the Smash Bubble are the only Smash Bros. fans and that by not catering to them specifically, Nintendo is making a mistake. This sentiment completely ignores other fanbases outside of the core fanbase which gave us picks such as Isabelle and Simon Belmont.

"But tehponycorn" you say, "Simon was a popular pick! Sakurai even said so himself!" Take a look at the many fan polls listed above and tell me how many Simon prominently appears on. The answer is 3. While 3/12 may seem like modest popularity, his votes total less than 1,000, and he's listed among many other, more popular third party characters. That hardly lines up with Sakurai's statement of Castlevania being "popular in player polls." So, there's a disconnect between what fan polls show and actual popularity? Why is this?

I propose an explanation in two parts:

First, all fan polls by nature fall prey to Voluntary Response Bias, defined as:
In survey sampling, voluntary response bias occurs when sample members are self-selected volunteers, as in voluntary samples. The resulting sample tends to overrepresent individuals who have strong opinions.
Every Smash fan poll cited majorly falls within the Smash Bubble because those within the Smash Bubble are most inclined to vote on polls like these. Granted, even the official Smash Ballot itself falls prey to this, and indeed those within the Smash Bubble would be much more inclined to vote in an official poll like this, but any bias within it is made up for by the Law of Large Numbers, defined as:
The law of large numbers, in probability and statistics, states that as a sample size grows, its mean gets closer to the average of the whole population.
The official nature of the poll and the advertising conducted for it extended the reach of the poll to even casual fans, which is why it's so important to establish this disconnect. The largest, most recent Smash fan poll as of right now is the Reddit Smash Ultimate Tourney randomized poll, with over 50,000 votes. In comparison, the Smash Ballot collected 1.8 million votes (360 times more votes), making it much closer to the wants of the entire Smash Bros. fanbase, hence why picks like Simon Belmont can float by the core fanbase largely undetected.

Second, there exists a strong, silent majority of fans outside of the core fanbase that has sway in character picks. People tend to forget that Nintendo tries to market Smash Bros. for everyone, or at the very least, the largest amount of people possible. It doesn't matter if you're a child whose mom bought him a Switch for Christmas or someone who's been with them since the NES, so long as you're a fan of Nintendo you might as well be considered a part of the Smash Bros. fanbase. Naturally, the wider Nintendo fanbase is largely varied, and outside of the Smash Bubble exists many different demographics with different character desires. This is how we end up with picks like Isabelle, who caters to the larger, more casual fanbase who see Isabelle often.

Returning to the Reddit Smash Ultimate Tourney randomized poll, you'll notice that Sora and Phoenix Wright scored better than they typically do in other fan polls, taking 5th and 8th place respectively, and garnering a total 20,883 votes, equal to around 40% of votes in the final round. This is impressive for two characters usually ignored within the Smash Bubble, or at the very least overlooked in favor of other, more popular speculation picks. The poll includes this interesting fact about them:
The characters with the most brigaders were Sora (more than half his voters came from non-reddit referrers) and Phoenix Wright (a third of his voters came from non-reddit referrers)
If a larger reddit fan poll was able to attract people outside of Reddit's r/SmashBros, then a poll as massive as the official Ballot would be able to attract people from all over, giving a skew towards the silent majority, as anyone could vote on it, even people outside of the regular Nintendo or Smash Bros. fanbase.

To make a long story short, there is a silent presence outside of the Smash Bubble. It is large and it is more powerful than many think. While our Smash Bubble is a prominent part of the fanbase, Nintendo has a much wider fanbase to appeal to as well, and the Smash Bubble isn't indicative of Smash Bros. fans in general.
Full read coming soon.
 
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Fenzer

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i think your dismissal of Ryu Hayabusa is uber flawed. You realize he has a unique set of physical abilities and Ninja tools that other characters don't use right?
His moves maybe be not the same and his weapons not the same too, but does he have a really unique features that tells him apart from regular ninjas? Sheik and Greninja are using the ninja stuff plenty, would it feel really different as a whole? I'm aiming at Snake/Villager/Megaman kind of new gameplays with what i said.
 

Yoshisaurus Rex

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And finally Doomguy.... No. Don't think so. Bye. Should i bother explain? no. huh?.... i should? .... Damn... huh... well, he's over violen- BAYONETTA - Yeah I know, she's kinda sexy, violent and not really family friendly but she gave a new type of gameplay. And Bayo2 is a Nintendo exclusivity.... I think she kinda deserved her spot. Doomguy? No, he's not fitting in.
A certain space pirate says hi!
 

Idon

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What's the source for this leak? I've seen comments that it was made after Joker was revealed, meaning that for all I know, even if a Dragon Quest hero gets included, it could just be a lucky guess given Dragon Quest's massive popularity in Japan.
I believe it was orignally on 5chan before being translated over unto gamefaqs, which then spread outwards from there.

Hold the **** up I just looked up what an Izuna Drop is. That ****'s dope, Hayabusa better ****ing be in, the more characters who can pull **** like that off the better
Took you long enough.
*****, that move is so iconic, POKEMON RIPPED IT OFF.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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And now I saved :ultdk:

I'll probably be sticking with him for a while.

Curious question BTW. To get the good ending do you have to save everybody because that's what I'm attempting before I face Galeem/Dharkon.
 
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