Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[LetterO]

Why should series that have little to nothing to do with Nintendo be in it?

Because Sakurai thinks they are cool to have in Smash. It's that simple.

 

[Shroob]

It's been 99% about Nintendo until 4's DLC. People seem to forget this is a Nintendo game and that will never not be true. Why should series that have little to nothing to do with Nintendo be in it? Besides, the statement was more of I'd be fine with cutting him and I would if I were in charge, but I'm not actively calling for him to be cut (though he probably will be). I'm moreso about stemming the flow of third parties and giving priority to first parties. You know, the company whose game this is.

Meanwhile there are people like you who seem fine if they outnumbered the first parties.

Yeah, I am fine.


Because if this DLC ends up being true, then it's very clear to me that Smash has gone beyond just being about "Nintendo's All-Stars" and has turned into a pseudo-Gaming Hall of Fame.


I don't understand this 'purist' mindset.

 

[Wyoming]

i mean, i hate to say you're wrong but

Ah yes...quite the personality he shows here. A buff brodude?

 

[fleshdude.gov]

My only issue with this explanation is that, if we're assuming this rumor is true, then Nintendo has an active stake in Dragon Quest seeing as how they'll be publishing it (presumably in the West at least.) They don't really have any involvement with DOOM Eternal beyond "hey this game is on our system buy it."

The rumors go that Nintendo's publishing DQ11S on the Switch overseas, from what I understand, so (if this is true), then yeah, they would have a personal stake in its success.

If that rumor isn't true, Nintendo would still have a bit of a reason to want it to succeed - more switch sales, which means more money. Not only that, but it would also likely help build their relationship with Square Enix (and in Doomguy's case, Bethesda).

 

[Bionichute]

I don't understand this 'purist' mindset.

some people just don't like third party characters dude. some people just come to smash bros for the nintendo stuff, because a lot of people just like nintendo more than other game devs. it isn't hard to understand

 

[Deleted member]

Can I just be blunt and say:

It's been 17 years since Melee.


The era of "Smash is a Nintendo only game" is over.



3rd parties are here to stay, and the more the merrier. Outside of a VERY small handful of 1st party characters left out of this game, what does Nintendo really have left to offer for Ultimate that's not already an Assist Trophy?

The only older Nintendo all-stars I would say are still out are Dixie and Isaac. All the rest are newer characters that will have plenty of chances to be added in the future.

 

[Shroob]

some people just don't like third party characters dude. some people just come to smash bros for the nintendo stuff, because a lot of people just like nintendo more than other game devs. it isn't hard to understand

Except they don't have to buy them if they're displeased with the DLC.


However, that's not going to change the course of the series' future. We've been getting more and more 3rd parties since Brawl, and I welcome it.

 

[Arthur97]

Because Sakurai thinks they are cool to have in Smash. It's that simple.

Sakurai personally liking something should not be reason enough.

Yeah, I am fine.


Because if this DLC ends up being true, then it's very clear to me that Smash has gone beyond just being about "Nintendo's All-Stars" and has turned into a pseudo-Gaming Hall of Fame.


I don't understand this 'purist' mindset.

Really? Cause it still reads Nintendo at the bottom of the box and you can't play it on your Xbox.

And Joker or Bayonetta hardly fit into the hall of fame concept. It's turning into a hodgepodge of things Sakurai likes. All the more reason for me to wish him out of the director's chair.

And just cause it's clear to you doesn't make it true. Just cause you seem to like the third parties more than first doesn't make it objectively a good thing.

I'm also not a purist. I'm perfectly okay with Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man. Even Simon to a point.

 

[Wyoming]

Except they don't have to buy them if they're displeased with the DLC.


However, that's not going to change the course of the series' future. We've been getting more and more 3rd parties since Brawl, and I welcome it.

They would still have to face them if they ventured into online, a tournament, or a friends house. It is unavoidable if you want to play the game to its fullest potential.

Not that I hate third parties; I welcome it, just something I wanted ti bring forth.

 

[N3ON]

But, why.

Why would you 'want' to remove characters that bring with them completely unique movesets and IPs?


Smash hasn't been about being pure-Nintendo since Melee, and I hope it stays this way.

Because different people value Smash for different things.

Smash might have ventured into taking from all corners of gaming, but many who were with it from the beginning probably value it as a Nintendo crossover. Just because that's not the direction the series is moving doesn't mean they're wrong. They just value something different.

Me personally, I don't have a problem with Smash focusing less on the Nintendo part of the Nintendo All-Stars, but it does rub me the wrong way when it focuses less on the All-Star part. So, I'm not anticipating it will happen, but should Nintendo cut characters of dubious esteem like Dark Pit, Corrin, Sheik, Incineroar, Piranha Plant... I wouldn't be too bothered.

People care about different stuff, and that's fine. The only real problem arises when people try to impose their values on others.

But the upshot of DLC is that you can curate that portion of the roster as you see fit.

 

[Shroob]

Sakurai personally liking something should not be reason enough.

Really? Cause it still reads Nintendo at the bottom of the box and you can't play it on your Xbox.

And Joker or Bayonetta hardly fit into the hall of fame concept. It's turning into a hodgepodge of things Sakurai likes.

And just cause it's clear to you doesn't make it true. I'm also not a purist. I'm perfectly okay with Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man. Even Simon to a point.

What does that matter what company makes the game?


I don't see your logic.


Nintendo makes the game = it can't be a celebration of gaming history.......?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Am I actually ****ing seeing "SMASH IS A NINTENDO GAME BECAUSE IT IS ON NINTENDO SYSTEMS THEREFORE THIRD PARTY BAD"? It's 1AM and I'm tired as ****, so this is an actual question and not me sassing, please answer

 

[Deleted member]

They would be, but they're not happening this game.

Yeah, they probably won't. It'd be cool if they did, though.

Welp, guess it's about time I weigh in on these leak shenanigans:

THOUGHTS ON SUPPOSED DLC ROSTER:

Spoiler

Piranha Plant: My plant son, the leafy boi; the chosen one. I absolutely love him, and would honestly keep him over other Mario choices.

Joker: Anyone who frequents here probably remembers my very...*Ahem* positive reaction to it that may or may not have involved lots of happy screaming. 10/10 choice, highly doubt there's gonna be a character that'll top this one for me. Only character besides Inkling where I decided no matter how they play, I'm going to main them.

Erdrick: I know very little about DQ, but my brother is a huge fan and is stoked. I'm super happy for him, and since I've been curious in the series for a long time now and have a love for the artstyle, I welcome him with open arms. ...Assuming we're not all jumping the gun here and it's actually him and not someone entirely different.

Doom Guy: Doom's gross. Don't like it.

Ryu: Ehhhhhhhhh...

Steve: Heck yeah, now this is a character I can get hyped for! Would absolutely love it, and could potentially rival my hype for Joker. Would definitely main no matter what.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Except they don't have to buy them if they're displeased with the DLC.


However, that's not going to change the course of the series' future. We've been getting more and more 3rd parties since Brawl, and I welcome it.

I don't get this stigma where certain DLC is bad just because certain characters are absent from the line-up. The base roster has the bare essentials for the casual crowd already. Imagine this: If the Wii U failed to get sales because so many morons and soccer moms thought it was an extension to the Wii, what makes anyone think the same people will get Smash Ultimate DLC for their kids?

Their kids might not even care or know the stuff exists either. The ones buying the Fighter's Pass is going to be the core audience of the game itself. If you're a Nintendo purist and you picked up Ultimate to be floored by its selection of Nintendo-only characters, you're playing the wrong game. How often do you put up with these sort of people anyhow?

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Ah yes...quite the personality he shows here. A buff brodude?

Well, if you want to get into it...

Doom Slayer's personality has always been one of brutality and insanity. He's a borderline monster himself, but he has to be. The fact that he's all alone in literal Hell necessitates that. See that face in the bottom of the screen? That portrait there at the bottom of the screen conveys what you should be feeling. That murderous grin when you pick up a weapon, that animalistic snarl of holding down the trigger full auto, the deterioration of your status as you take more and more damage, it's an anchor to direct the player. Even the fact that you're glancing around warily tells you that you should be looking around for more things to shoot.

So yeah, by giving the player's avatar those touches and encouraging certain behaviours you're crafting a character that anyone who plays will come to identify with. Doomguy is literally Doom. He's every single second of gameplay. Run and gun, rip and tear, disregard for flowery prose, screw storytelling, let me hit stuff because they all deserve it and I should be enjoying it.

Personality isn't restricted to one liners and dialogue, it's conveyed through being. And Doomguy has quite an explosive personality. It's been pretty damn consistent throughout the entire series.

 

[Megadoomer]

Sakurai personally liking something should not be reason enough.

Really? Cause it still reads Nintendo at the bottom of the box and you can't play it on your Xbox.

And Joker or Bayonetta hardly fit into the hall of fame concept. It's turning into a hodgepodge of things Sakurai likes. All the more reason for me to wish him out of the director's chair.

And just cause it's clear to you doesn't make it true. Just cause you seem to like the third parties more than first doesn't make it objectively a good thing.

I'm also not a purist. I'm perfectly okay with Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man. Even Simon to a point.

Bayonetta's an unusual case, since she got in through a fan ballot. Maybe the fact that they were already working with Sega for the base game, or Bayonetta 2's exclusivity, made it easier, but at the end of the day, she was a fairly popular choice among the Smash community.

I haven't played Persona 5, so I can't comment on Joker. Atlus is owned by Sega, but from what I've seen, Persona doesn't have either of the other two points (major exclusives, fan demand for Joker in particular to be added to Smash) going for it.

I'm fine with characters like Snake, Ryu, Cloud, or Bayonetta; it's nice that they aren't just limiting the third party characters to cartoony mascots.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Meanwhile, Nintendo doesn't seem to care about their game turning into a general gaming-crossover, as long as it's still mainly their franchises each game.


Steve is a Nintendo icon because Minecraft appeals to Nintendo and their fans alike and the community was freaking out (not in the happy way) back when Microsoft bought Mojang

 

[Wyoming]

Not interested. You will enjoy him though.

 

[Bionichute]

Except they don't have to buy them if they're displeased with the DLC.


However, that's not going to change the course of the series' future. We've been getting more and more 3rd parties since Brawl, and I welcome it.

i want more smash bros content. i love smash bros with all my heart. why would i not be disappointed about the content i have to pay money for not being anything that i want? if nintendo wanted to make the maximum amount of profit, they need to appeal to both sides of the pond, which they didn't with smash 4's dlc

and also i feel that the more third parties we get, the less special they become. getting five third parties in a row for dlc would severely devalue the title of third party guest, like what happened with basically every guest character in every fighting game at this point. if this is real, then the third party newcomers outnumber the first party ones, which isn't good for the people who prefer nintendo characters

 

[cmbsfm]

Blocked Content has went downhill man. They used to make awesome Snake codec videos and stuff like Cranky’s advice. It was great, and their impressions were spot on. Now they just make 20 min videos on any leak that shows up on 4chan. Almost as bad as LaxChris, if not worse. And they don’t even start talking about the leak till like halfway through the video. I’ve unsubbed, it’s absolutely awful content now. Shame, their codecs sort of filled the void.

 

[Deoxys911]

The only older Nintendo all-stars I would say are still out are Dixie and Isaac. All the rest are newer characters that will have plenty of chances to be added in the future.

"Disappointbike."

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sup.

We still discussing said DLC?

 

[KarneraMythos]

Well, if you want to get into it...

Doom Slayer's personality has always been one of brutality and insanity. He's a borderline monster himself, but he has to be. The fact that he's all alone in literal Hell necessitates that. See that face in the bottom of the screen? That portrait there at the bottom of the screen conveys what you should be feeling. That murderous grin when you pick up a weapon, that animalistic snarl of holding down the trigger full auto, the deterioration of your status as you take more and more damage, it's an anchor to direct the player. Even the fact that you're glancing around warily tells you that you should be looking around for more things to shoot.

So yeah, by giving the player's avatar those touches and encouraging certain behaviours you're crafting a character that anyone who plays will come to identify with. Doomguy is literally Doom. He's every single second of gameplay. Run and gun, rip and tear, disregard for flowery prose, screw storytelling, let me hit stuff because they all deserve it and I should be enjoying it.

Personality isn't restricted to one liners and dialogue, it's conveyed through being. And Doomguy has quite an explosive personality. It's been pretty damn consistent throughout the entire series.

In short, Doom Guy is a Large Ham. To be fair though, Samus doesn't have much of a personality in Smash either. She's just kind of your standard edgy kewl female space heroine. Doomguy isn't any worse off. Simon is kinda similar to being a gruff dude who the fandom flanderized into a hyper-Christian vampire-killer for laughs. If the leak is real, watch the fandom make Doomguy into a hilariously hyper-violent demon-killer as a Foil to Simon.

Sup.

We still discussing said DLC?

Baby, you know it!

 

[Double K]

**** it I'm just gonna do this again

Gran for Smash pl0x

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 185599
"Disappointbike."

alexa play start your engines

 

[Icedragonadam]

Looking at the parameters for the Brave character made think of another possible contender. A RE character. There's a statue called Tyranos The Brave in the series.

https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranos_the_Brave

The Brave character has 101 weight, and is a slow fighter ad has no jab. Honestly that fits very well with Leon or Chris IMO. I mean Chris & Jill in Project X Zone were pretty slow.

 

[Arthur97]

Bayonetta's an unusual case, since she got in through a fan ballot. Maybe the fact that they were already working with Sega for the base game, or Bayonetta 2's exclusivity, made it easier, but at the end of the day, she was a fairly popular choice among the Smash community.

I haven't played Persona 5, so I can't comment on Joker. Atlus is owned by Sega, but from what I've seen, Persona doesn't have either of the other two points (major exclusives, fan demand for Joker in particular to be added to Smash) going for it.

I'm fine with characters like Snake, Ryu, Cloud, or Bayonetta; it's nice that they aren't just limiting the third party characters to cartoony mascots.

To this day we were never clarified on what "realizable" meant. At this point I'm almost convinced Sakurai's picking stuff that he likes.

Meanwhile, Nintendo doesn't seem to care about their game turning into a general gaming-crossover, as long as it's still mainly their franchises each game.


Steve is a Nintendo icon because Minecraft appeals to Nintendo and their fans alike and the community was freaking out (not in the happy way) back when Microsoft bought Mojang

It's not a general crossover. Not yet anyway, and I severely hope it never is.

Even the gaming history point of view falls short since it is still so much Nintendo unless you think 80+% of gaming history is them.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Sakurai personally liking something should not be reason enough.

Really? Cause it still reads Nintendo at the bottom of the box and you can't play it on your Xbox.

And Joker or Bayonetta hardly fit into the hall of fame concept. It's turning into a hodgepodge of things Sakurai likes. All the more reason for me to wish him out of the director's chair.

And just cause it's clear to you doesn't make it true. Just cause you seem to like the third parties more than first doesn't make it objectively a good thing.

I'm also not a purist. I'm perfectly okay with Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man. Even Simon to a point.

Bayonetta was a fan vote and I know this is personal anecdote but I distinctly recall my eardrums being blown out by five different people when they saw the smash logo on Joker's envelope. Characters have fanbases that we don't know and probably aren't even aware of because prior to Smash we have very little contact with them. It's why all of a sudden we get "where did all this support come from."

Nintendo knows what they're doing. I'm sorry that you don't enjoy them or like them but that doesn't make them objectively bad either. It just means the game is expanding in a way you don't like. Plenty of other people do like it. And it's not like we didn't get a good amount of first party characters this go around, many of them requested for literally decades.

 

[Shroob]

I think the best way to look at it is:


If this IS the real lineup, then the simplest answer I can give you is that:

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Imma post his whenever someone says Joker has never been on a nintendo system

 

[Noipoi]

So, I just beat World of Light. Got the true ending as well, I wasn't even trying.

Spoiler: WoL endgame spoilers!

took out every single boss. Marx, Ganon, Galleom, you name it. He almost took out Galeem too, But Darkhon had to be a douchebag.
He fought valiantly, showing off the entire time. His burning pro wrestling spirit shined the whole way through.

Isabelle finished off Galeem, and dealt a decent amount of damage to Darkhon. She also got through the platforming section with relative ease.
With a spring in her step, she really is the best in show. But she didn't defeat Darkhon and save the universe, that honor goes to..

in the end, it was up to Inkling to save the world. It was tough, the forces of evil refused to give in, but with a final woomy she sent Darkhon back to the shadows from whence he came. It was truly an Ink-redible journey.

It got kinda tedious at times, but I really enjoyed this mode. I might even try new game plus some time.

 

[Double K]

Looking at the parameters for the Brave character made think of another possible contender. A RE character. There's a statue called Tyranos The Brave in the series.

https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranos_the_Brave

The Brave character has 101 weight, and is a slow fighter ad has no jab. Honestly that fits very well with Leon or Chris IMO. I mean Chris & Jill in Project X Zone were pretty slow.

Damn

are you Mr. Fantastic? Because that sure is a stretch

 

[Shroob]

To this day we were never clarified on what "realizable" meant. At this point I'm almost convinced Sakurai's picking stuff that he likes.

It's not a general crossover. Not yet anyway, and I severely hope it never is.

Even the gaming history point of view falls short since it is still so much Nintendo unless you think 80+% of gaming history is them.

I mean, in a way it 'kinda' is.


Unless you want an Atari rep.


It wasn't until the Genesis came out that Nintendo had competition, and then it wasn't until the Playstation that the stakes were raised. For a lot of people that grew up in the 80-90's, Nintendo 'was' gaming history.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Looking at the parameters for the Brave character made think of another possible contender. A RE character. There's a statue called Tyranos The Brave in the series.

https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranos_the_Brave

The Brave character has 101 weight, and is a slow fighter ad has no jab. Honestly that fits very well with Leon or Chris IMO. I mean Chris & Jill in Project X Zone were pretty slow.

Resident Evil is also the last franchise that fits with all the obligatory fan rules imo

 

[Arthur97]

Bayonetta was a fan vote and I know this is personal anecdote but I distinctly recall my eardrums being blown out by five different people when they saw the smash logo on Joker's envelope. Characters have fanbases that we don't know and probably aren't even aware of because prior to Smash we have very little contact with them. It's why all of a sudden we get "where did all this support come from."

Nintendo knows what they're doing. I'm sorry that you don't enjoy them or like them but that doesn't make them objectively bad either. It just means the game is expanding in a way you don't like. Plenty of other people do like it. And it's not like we didn't get a good amount of first party characters this go around, many of them requested for literally decades.

Of course their fandoms would be excited. Which fandom wouldn't be to get a rep?

Yeah, but having the entire fighting pass be third party? Especially when selling it blind? Kind of presumptious to assume all those people wanted all third parties in their Nintendo fighting game DLC. Which it still is even if you and others try to tell yourself otherwise.

 

[Zinith]

*sigh*

Even if all the DLC characters were 3rd party, I don't see a future of "Smash being mostly 3rd party." Cut that hyperbolic **** out...

The only way I'd see that happen is if Sakurai and Sora Ltd. cut exclusivity rights from Nintendo and just made the series multiplat. AND reduce the focus around characters like Mario, Link and Pikachu.

It's not a matter of "would you be happy" about 3rd party focus, but "would it happen in the first place"

 

[Double K]

Of course their fandoms would be excited. Which fandom wouldn't be to get a rep?

Fire Emblem as evidenced by the sub's reaction to Chrom

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Looking at the parameters for the Brave character made think of another possible contender. A RE character. There's a statue called Tyranos The Brave in the series.

https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranos_the_Brave

The Brave character has 101 weight, and is a slow fighter ad has no jab. Honestly that fits very well with Leon or Chris IMO. I mean Chris & Jill in Project X Zone were pretty slow.

See, thing about this Brave situation is...

This is character data. They're referring to the characters literally, sure it may be a nickname or shorthand but it would still have to make sense because nobody wants to have to sit there and go "I'm looking for Villager. Is he Cherry Tree or Town Hall?" while doing work. Naming a character with such a deep, bizarre, irrelevant pull has no practical value.

It's 99% Erdrick/Luminary/DQ Heroes given what we know. It's not gonna be some super secret reference to anyone else, not with the way character names have been for the past two games.

 

[Shroob]

*sigh*

Even if all the DLC characters were 3rd party, I don't see a future of "Smash being mostly 3rd party." Cut that hyperbolic **** out...

The only way I'd see that happen is if Sakurai and Sora Ltd. cut exclusivity rights from Nintendo and just made the series multiplat. AND reduce the focus around characters like Mario, Link and Pikachu.

It's not a matter of "would you be happy" about 3rd party focus, but "would it happen in the first place"

I mean, no one's saying the future will be 'mostly 3rd party' to begin with.

 

[kylexv]

The more of a stretch the connection to "Brave" requires, the less likely that character is actually "Brave".

Just my thoughts though.