Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

Why does he deserve it? I've never understood why people say that a character deserves to be playable. It seems very subjective to me.

Yes, it's completely subjective. Unless you are talking about my fave, they deserve it.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Did you make it?
Seems like a fantastic piece of art.

lol naah I cant draw, this is from Pixiv

 

[Potato_]

To reframe the question: what’s the one character they could announce as DLC that would make you go “I’m all in, buying the season pass, thank you Sakurai?”

Mine doesn’t bear repeating.

First parties? Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario.

Third parties? Tails/Shadow or a Bethesda Rep. Dovahkiin, Vault Boy, Doomslayer, I don't care who. I love Bethesda games with a passion and to see them represented in Smash would be amazing.

Literally any one of these would be enough for me to commit to the rest of the season pass.

even though I probably will regardless of the characters announced

 

[Deleted member]

lol naah I cant draw, this is from Pixiv

The website looks interesting.
I may check it when i have more time.

 

[theromfather]

To reframe the question: what’s the one character they could announce as DLC that would make you go “I’m all in, buying the season pass, thank you Sakurai?”

Mine doesn’t bear repeating.

Gimme a Geno, Skull Kid, Banjo or Lloyd Irving and I'm in.

 

[GoeGoe]

Why does he deserve it? I've never understood why people say that a character deserves to be playable. It seems very subjective to me.

They say that in comparsion. Like let's say Ness for example, Waluigi fans will debate that he's been in more games n so on. Get the idea?

 

[StormC]

“This character deserves it” and “characters deserving it is subjective” are not mutually exclusive.

 

[A.G.L.]

Oh boy.. and to see it in doubles. In my edit I meant "scrap it", sorry for that mistake. Getting this out of the way.

So. Well, now I think about it that solution might not work either. If Geno is considered a bench charcater then why would Nintendo bother buying his rights? add to it, Square definitely won't make that easy or cheap. Poor Geno. Smash it is then.

That's one uplifting music
I don't know, Solaire? I'm hoping nothing, as I wish a spot for my Goemon.

I think Sakurai could have pushed for him just to appease fans. We know he likes Geno so maybe its a dream of his too, who knows. In the end though he has to deal with the juggernaut that is Square. And perhaps they worked a deal with him, we will let you use Geno, but to this extent. In return we want this character pushed and not Geno. Its highly possible they struck a deal like that. As I have said Square is willing to let things happen, if its in their best interests. So they give Geno to Sakurai, but only to an extent. They then in return have another of their main characters pushed. I could definitely see this scenario being possible.

Yes it is and so much music from Octopath Traveler is like that. I really hope Square isn't so stingy with their music like they were in Smash Wii U.
I mean most of Bethesda's character's would be really out of place in Smash. I mean who would they add, the Vault 111 Survivor, the Dragon Born. Im with you Goemon makes more sense. That being said some Bethesda music would be amazing.

 

[ButterGeek]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/155/banjo-kazooie/
Banjo's 3.7 million in 1998 versus

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-3
Halo's peak at 14.5 million in 2007. (Plus, a series that is still alive)
(FPS).

Reminder: Minecraft has 154 Million copies sold and is still selling well

 

[A.G.L.]

Why does he deserve it? I've never understood why people say that a character deserves to be playable. It seems very subjective to me.

Agree the term characters deserve is very subjective. It makes more sense to say the loyal fan base deserves it, but the character?

 

[Mc.Rad]

I am putting on my tinfoil hat again, because I noticed a certain "Lord Death" doesn't seem to have a spirit in Spirits, despite having his own trophy in Smash 4...


Fellas. I think stealing those goats has finally payed off

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

So... Make list of characters, of which you played their debut game before they got confirmed for Smash... (Extra points if the Pokemon were actually on your team during the play through...)


(okay, so technically, Ridley and K. Rool shouldn't count, because I never got far enough to actually encounter them... That being said though, Froakie and Litten were my starters in XY and SM respectively)
Man... this is a short list... this is what happens when you've only been a Nintendo fan for like 12 years

Here's the ones that I played before they got in Smash, note that the character is referred to their debut game.


These also count since they also debuted with a character listed above.

Here's the ones that I played after Smash

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

My DLC Predictions:
1. Geno: Basing this around Verge's Square-Enix rep mention, among other things. I truly don't think Sora will be in the game. I'd love to be wrong, though. Also, we haven't seen the Mii Costume yet, have we?

2. Banjo: This is mostly me hoping Minecraft isn't in the game (sorry, Minecraft fans). Maybe some music/assist/item/whatever, but I'm sure Nintendo KNOWS we want Banjo.

3. Monster Hunter: This is just a bold prediction based on the fact that we got Rathalos... and nothing else from Monster Hunter. I know nothing about the series, but I wouldn't mind this!

4. Waddle Dee: Specifically of the Bandana kind! This is mostly just filler and could be replaced with just about any other first party. I could see Dixie Kong, Ribbon Girl, and maybe some others take this spot, too.

5. Rex (and maybe Pyra): Honestly, judging by the Direct, Sakurai seemed to really want to include XBC2 stuff in the game but couldn't because of where it fell in the development timeline. Nothing is stopping him from just dropping them in the last DLC slot. XBC2 seems stupidly popular in Japan, so.

 

[Kuon]

He was a part of Nintendo’s legacy back on the N64 and the face of Rareware, the people who made DK the way we know him today.

That doesn't mean he deserves to be playable. It's not like Sakurai owes Banjo and Kazooie anything. He puts in characters he thinks makes sense. When people say that a character deserves to be playable, it makes it seem like their better than other characters, like they should be placed on a higher pedestal because of the impact they may have had back in the day. It's hard to explain, but saying a character deserves to be playable is very cliché. I mean, I could say that Amy Rose deserves to be playable because she was the first main female character in a Sonic game, but honestly she wouldn't "deserve" to be playable in Smash, because no character "has worked hard" and "deserves it". It comes down to characters Sakurai wants and characters the fans want. It's not like a character that's been in 15 or 20 games deserves to get in over a character that's only been in one game. Does that make sense? I hope I don't come off as rude, but I just disagree with saying that characters "deserve" to get in, no matter the reason.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think Sakurai could have pushed for him just to appease fans. We know he likes Geno so maybe its a dream of his too, who knows. In the end though he has to deal with the juggernaut that is Square. And perhaps they worked a deal with him, we will let you use Geno, but to this extent. In return we want this character pushed and not Geno. Its highly possible they struck and deal like that. As I have said Square is willing to let things happen, if its in their best interests. So they give Geno to Sakurai, but only to an extent. They then in return have another of their main characters pushed. I could definitely see this scenario being possible.

And seeing how many characters SE has and will have, it's likely that it'll take a while (if not ever) before Geno has no barriers in the way. DQ in particular is a big one.

 

[Deleted member]

The thing with Steve is this:

I would be fine with him, since i find him deserving of a spot too (with the legacy of Minecraft and all)... But people are claiming him as a fighter for a fact.

Unless i missed some bit of information (feel free to correct me), Vergeben has only talked about Minecraft content in general appearing in some form, not straight on a fighter.

I am expecting Minecraft content, but we can’t declare yet how it will appear.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I had this idea for Raiden. He'd be a semi-clone with all of his attacks are with his katana, but his specials are still taken from Snake's.

 

[SonicMario]

Wait, so have 3 of the 5 DLC characters already been definitively leaked or is it just exaggerated hearsay?

While I'm not sure I've delved deep enough. What seems to be the case is the first DLC character is for certain going to be whoever is the 2nd Square Enix rep that's been going around. And it's the only thing Verge is certain is still in.

Steve is only regarding the Minecraft content. But would make sense if so if it's indeed still coming because we know fighter's come with stages.

I think the Granblue thing was mainly from someone else that Verge knows but not necessarily something he thinks is coming.

So at least one spot will be a Square Enix character. One might be Steve. And it looks like the other 3 may remain a mystery.

 

[SvartWolf]

I mean the only Konami newcomers I want are Soma, Alcuard, Jonathan & Charolette, Shanona, Maria, Trevor Belmont, Sylphya Belandes, Eric Licarde Bomberman, and Bill Rizier.

"I mean the only Konami ..."

Thats a lot of characters XD... (and a lot of castlevania <3)

BTW, im kinda suspecting that Sakurai is actually a huge castlevania fan and haven konami be in such a meltdown during Sm4sh developement, he would been included on Sm4sh. (i mean.. teh only other 3rd party on Brawl was sonic, and was only cause he was such a big deal)

During the spirits demonstration, he uses Richter, is seen with a lvl 99 Alucard spirit while everyone else was lvl 1, and to show us spirits evolution he proceeds to feed a Child Maria renard to level 99, and then she evolves into older maria renard (SOTN)


on other news... it still feel akward to consider bomberman a konami character. rip Hudson

 

[GoeGoe]

I really want another company to start a new crossover fighter. There're so many characters that need the spot light. I'm tired of Nintendo's selection method.

 

[Kuon]

They say that in comparsion. Like let's say Ness for example, Waluigi fans will debate that he's been in more games n so on. Get the idea?

Even still, it's just so cliché to say a character deserves to be playable. It's not like characters work hard to get in the game

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The thing with Steve is this:

I would be fine with him, since i find him deserving of a spot too (with the legacy of Minecraft and all)... But people are claiming him as a fighter for a fact.

Unless i missed some bit of information (feel free to correct me), Vergeben has only talked about Minecraft content in general appearing in some form, not straight on a fighter.

I am expecting Minecraft content, but we can’t declare yet how it will appear.

Correctamundo. For all we know, we may be getting Rash from Battletoads, and Minecraft Mii costumes, for example.

 

[Will]

This is mostly me hoping Minecraft isn't in the game (sorry, Minecraft fans). Maybe some music/assist/item/whatever, but I'm sure Nintendo KNOWS we want Banjo.

who tf is we cause it sure aint me

I really want another company to start a new crossover fighter. There're so many characters that need the spot light. I'm tired of Nintendo's selection method.

Blazblue just recently did a crossover with Persona and RWBY

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly my biggest issue with Banjo is how there's no impact the franchise made at all other than "I liked it". "Collectathons!" You mean Mario 64. "Cartoon animals!" That's Sonic. "Rareware!" That's DK. "Indie games being inspired by collectathons!" Yooka Laylee was condemned for being too similar to Banjo Kazooie and did badly whereas Hat in Time primarily was inspired by Mario Sunshine

 

[Deleted member]

That doesn't mean he deserves to be playable. It's not like Sakurai owes Banjo and Kazooie anything. He puts in characters he thinks makes sense. When people say that a character deserves to be playable, it makes it seem like their better than other characters, like they should be placed on a higher pedestal because of the impact they may have had back in the day. It's hard to explain, but saying a character deserves to be playable is very cliché. I mean, I could say that Amy Rose deserves to be playable because she was the first main female character in a Sonic game, but honestly she wouldn't "deserve" to be playable in Smash, because no character "has worked hard" and "deserves it". It comes down to characters Sakurai wants and characters the fans want. It's not like a character that's been in 15 or 20 games deserves to get in over a character that's only been in one game. Does that make sense? I hope I don't come off as rude, but I just disagree with saying that characters "deserve" to get in, no matter the reason.

Don’t worry, i can understand your reaction.

I mean, most characters on the gaming industry deserve a spot in some form. I just feel like a Rare rep would feel natural in Smash. The company has given a lot to Nintendo in the past, and even made characters like Donkey Kong the way we know them today.

 

[Deleted member]

"I mean the only Konami ..."

Thats a lot of characters XD... (and a lot of castlevania <3)

BTW, im kinda suspecting that Sakurai is actually a huge castlevania fan and haven konami be in such a meltdown during Sm4sh developement, he would been included on Sm4sh. (i mean.. teh only other 3rd party on Brawl was sonic, and was only cause he was such a big deal)

During the spirits demonstration, he uses Richter, is seen with a lvl 99 Alucard spirit while everyone else was lvl 1, and to show us spirits evolution he proceeds to feed a Child Maria renard to level 99, and then she evolves into older maria renard (SOTN)


on other news... it still feel akward to consider bomberman a konami character. rip Hudson

lol. I feel like I'm the only one who would be okay with more Castlevania characters in Smash.

 

[A.G.L.]

And seeing how many characters SE has and will have, it's likely that it'll take a while (if not ever) before Geno has no barriers in the way. DQ in particular is a big one.

Agree the way I see it is the main contender for the second Square spot, if we are being logical. Is Dragon Quest character or Sora, those two make the most sense. It would help them cross promote two games that are brand new right now. Dragon Quest 11 and Kingdom Hearts 3, it just makes too much sense.

 

[Kuon]

Agree the term characters deserve is very subjective. It makes more sense to say the loyal fan base deserves it, but the character?

Yeah, that's different. If the fanbase has been very persistent with their most wanted character, in a respectful manner, then yes they might deserve to get a character in the game, but the character itself doesn't deserve it because the character didn't actually do anything

 

[SvartWolf]

I really want another company to start a new crossover fighter. There're so many characters that need the spot light. I'm tired of Nintendo's selection method.

"Welcome back to the stage of history, a tale of swords and souls, eternally retold"

 

[KingofKoopas]

Anyone else sort of miss not knowing the base roster? I mean dlc is fun to speculate about but doesn't got the same feeling to it. Part of me sort of wishes they waited til a week before release instead of a little over a month to show us EVERYTHING.

 

[Jchrono95]

To reframe the question: what’s the one character they could announce as DLC that would make you go “I’m all in, buying the season pass, thank you Sakurai?”

Mine doesn’t bear repeating.

Crono, Strider Hiryu, or Crash. Though I'm probably gonna go all in anyway. Those three would turn the probably into a "I'm buying this pass and any future Ultimate pass on sight"

 

[Disfunkshunal]

I had written a first draft of that post explaining why I compared them to avoid responses like this.

The comparison is in the "Homecoming" aspect alone. Spidey's been Sony for a long time and MCU fans wanted him 'back'. I assumed everyone would understand that and I didn't have to overexplain it. Same goes for MC. He's Batman because Bats doesn't venture out of the DC realm like MC sticks to just Microsoft. I'm not saying you can go out in the street and ask people. No one will recognize them as easily as ****ing Spiderman and Batman. It's foolish to think as much.

Do you remember that scene in Shrek where Shrek compared ogres to onions and subsequently shot down Donkey's comparison of orges to cake? While there are some parts of your comparison that are true, the comparison as a whole fails when you consider all the implications. Orges are not like cake because not everyone likes cake. Banjo is not like spiderman because even casual fans and younger fans knew who spiderman was and wanted him to interact with their other favorite heroes.

 

[Potato_]

"Welcome back to the stage of history, a tale of swords and souls, eternally retold"

While I love Soulcalibur, it's not really a crossover fighter. More of a fighter that has a few guest characters.

Crossover fighters would be something like MvC or Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly my biggest issue with Banjo is how there's no impact the franchise made at all other than "I liked it". "Collectathons!" You mean Mario 64. "Cartoon animals!" That's Sonic. "Rareware!" That's DK. "Indie games being inspired by collectathons!" Yooka Laylee was condemned for being too similar to Banjo Kazooie and did badly whereas Hat in Time primarily was inspired by Mario Sunshine

Fair enough.
Those points are actually strong ones.

I feel like he could be the second Minecraft franchise in Smash if we get Minecraft, doh.

 

[Kuon]

Don’t worry, i can understand your reaction.

I mean, most characters on the gaming industry deserve a spot in some form. I just feel like a Rare rep would feel natural in Smash. The company has given a lot to Nintendo in the past, and even made characters like Donkey Kong the way we know them today.

That makes more sense. I can agree that the fans may deserve their character, or the developers may deserve it, but not the character itself

 

[SvartWolf]

lol. I feel like I'm the only one who would be okay with more Castlevania characters in Smash.

heh, believe me.. if the roster depended on me, people would think teh fire emblem roster Bias was nothing

too bad castlevania judgement is terrible T.T

 

[ZephyrZ]

The issue I take with saying a character "deserves" to be in is because it's the implication that not putting them in is some sort of crime, like it's some sort of insult not to put the character in the roster because they "deserve" better. When making the roster, a large number of things have to be considered (resource management, general and hardcore appeal, movesets, variety in character choices, ect), not simply who's the most "influential". Not every character you think is iconic or important is guaranteed a spot and I think it's important to accept that.

 

[A.G.L.]

I really want another company to start a new crossover fighter. There're so many characters that need the spot light. I'm tired of Nintendo's selection method.

Theres a rumor Marvel vs Capcom 4 is going to be a thing, not sure if that helps.

 

[Kuon]

Fair enough.
Those points are actually strong ones.

I feel like he could be the second Minecraft franchise in Smash if we get Minecraft, doh.

It's possible that in a future Smash title we could get Banjo in the base roster for the longtime fans, but naturally it makes more sense for Minecraft, and even Halo to an extent, to come before Banjo

 

[Deleted member]

"Banjo/Geno/Isaac shouldn't be in because not a lot of people would care about them."
"Katalina is fine even though Granblue has barely any clout outside of Japan."
Y'all need to rethink these arguments because that doesn't make a lick of sense to me.