Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

@TotsBS So if I'm reading your notes right (which tbh we have evidence I suck at tonight), we basically got your fake Grinch route with a shoddy Spirits explanation, no side modes, a slew of deconfirmations and a plant.

Does that sound right?

Pretty much, and I'm trying my best not to sound ungrateful, because don't get me wrong. This roster is the greatest in a fighting game, by far. 103 stages? Jesus. King K. Rool got me so ****ing hyped, and made me think that "wow, Sakurai is really going all in for Ultimate for the fans!"

The biggest problem was prioritizing what content was gonna be in the Direct, and what content isn't. On the official website, they say that they have "even more modes!", so WHY NOT SHOW THEM?

WHY are we getting shown BRIGHTNESS AND SOUND where we can talk about some of the single-player content like Home-Run Contest, Events, these things are what builds a Smash game.

If things were planned much more better honestly for the entirety of Ultimate's hype cycle, I don't think I'd be this upset. But seeing no trophies, no confirmation of any other single-player content, a lot of people's wants, and my wants, getting hard deconfirmed and other stuff... It didn't even sound like they were confident in selling their DLC, either, to be honest. It felt like "hey, we're making this, hopefully only those who deem it worthy will buy it" when they shown the Fighter Pass.

It just feels like this Direct and the contents that were shown felt like huge miscommunication.

 

[staindgrey]

It is but I wish they all could be like Chrom.

Like I'm glad Daisy is a fighter but what is so special about her that meant she couldn't be a costume this time?

Second guess my girl's appearance again and I WILL CUT YOU.

*ahem*

They're two very distinct personalities, but Daisy doesn't have appearances outside of party/sports/kart games from which to draw a moveset. So it makes sense to plug her into Peach's moveset (sadly) as she and Peach are always featured together, even though Daisy has never been shown floating or plucking vegetables. But it would still be disingenuous to put Daisy's face on Peach's animations because she has never acted as regal and reserved as that.

Half the reason Daisy fans are Daisy fans is Daisy's obnoxious voice lines and exaggerated, tomboyish mannerisms. Making her a costume would be like plugging a Cloud costume onto Ike because they both use big swords. Doable, yeah, but not at all ideal and it isn't true to the character in the slightest.

 

[Starbound]

Heck yeah plant looks dope af, I hope he isn't out any later than February.

I would think they wouldn't release it after the amiibo comes out.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm tellin' ya'll... They're gonna pull a Scooby Doo and unmask it to be Zero. Just makes way too much sense.

Zero or Giygas or Tabuu or Master Core. Something like that.

 

[Opossum]

So, to everyone here, who is you favorite Echo Fighter? Mine is , but Ken and look interesting.

Chrom, of course.

 

[doomedtacox]

I don't hate him. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Minecraft content was shaky from the beginning.

They've pretty much revealed everything they've deemed as important enough to reveal in the Direct. If Minecraft content of any kind was there, you damn well know it would've been placed in there due to how big the franchise is in gaming history, but you know what?

Sakurai deemed the Help menu and a brightness slider more important. Not to mention that fact Vergeben was caught lying today, claiming he knew about Piranha Plant when all he gave was a vague "It's a Nintendo character" answer. If he really knew, then he would have said something along the lines of "It's an unexpected character/It's a Mario character/It's Piranha Plant." He knew about every other character (sans Richter) and yet he claims this bull? No. I have never believed we'd get Minecraft content and I will not believe it until I see it with my own two eyes, Vegeta-ben be damned.

It's shouldn't be there, it's DLC. And that's fine if you don't believe it, you'll just have to take the L when it's revealed, although it's better to get the acceptance out of the way as early as possible, or else you get what happened to alot of people after this direct.

 

[Diem]

Nope.
Some guy compared the two using footage released and they have the exact same fall speeds.
The "floatiness" Dark Samus applies only to her miscellaneous animations, and doesn't affect gameplay.

I mean, DO WE REALLY NEED SAMUS TO BE EVEN FLOATIER THAN SHE ALREADY IS?

Trust me, the few other people and myself in the Dark Samus thread were debating her attributes over two months ago. We know that by all accounts their physics and attributes are the same. The only actual difference we can tell is that many of Samus's attacks that have a fire effect are instead electrical effects for Dark Samus. If that's the only difference, that's certainly disappointing, especially compared to characters like, well, Ken, who are more substantial, but Dark Samus is lucky to be here anyways. I was originally willing to accept just an alt costume, actually. My bar was set pretty low.

Just saying, the hope is now there. Before we weren't certain if Echo Fighters could have different physics or not. Now, that door is open.

I play Jigglypuff sometimes. I don't mind floaty characters. And I think if Samus was weightier, it'd be a nice contrast. Especially since Samus is weightier in the games, not floaty.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Heresy, anime boobs are temporary. Based Plant is eternal.

Sorry, I had to, I understand disappointment from all this stuff, even if I disagree with you on a few things

But can you not, though? Some people actually like these characters and their games, fanservice-y designs aside. Your joke (if it even is one) is dangerously close to trolling here.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Shroob]

I'm not convinced we're getting anything at VGA for Smash DLC anyways.

It makes no sense. If Piranha Plant is what they're working on to get him ready for I'm assuming a February release date. Then I'd wager we're looking at a DLC fighter every 2 months? Thus the next fighter after him would be in April.

Why tease or share information about something that far off in December?

When they were working on Mewtwo, they were also woking on Lucas, Ryu and Roy back in Smash 4, this gets extra credibility due to the datamining of the Mewtwo patch.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Yeah, the underdog you'd never expect.

Also, I just remembered that if we go by canon, Rosalina can teleport to her Comet Observatory in like an instant from some celebratory winning screens, and Bowser legit teleports back to his base in the center of the universe in Galaxy, the one where he wasn't eating cosmic matter to make him thicc

 

[Noipoi]

Today's Fighter is Incineroar.

Story Mode's starter character is the fighter they show with Mario since day one.


No suprises here.

Why was there a blog update at this hour?

 

[doomedtacox]

I would think they wouldn't release it after the amiibo comes out.

I imagine they'll do it as soon as he's ready but who knows. I doubt you'd have to unlock him so the amiibo doesn't really add anything but who knows.

 

[Starbound]

The biggest problem was prioritizing what content was gonna be in the Direct, and what content isn't. On the official website, they say that they have "even more modes!", so WHY NOT SHOW THEM?

Wait, really?

Okay yeah that's super dumb.

Second guess my girl's appearance again and I WILL CUT YOU.

*ahem*

They're two very distinct personalities, but Daisy doesn't have appearances outside of party/sports/kart games from which to draw a moveset. So it makes sense to plug her into Peach's moveset (sadly) as she and Peach are always featured together, even though Daisy has never been shown floating or plucking vegetables. But it would still be disingenuous to put Daisy's face on Peach's animations because she has never acted as regal and reserved as that.

Half the reason Daisy fans are Daisy fans is Daisy's obnoxious voice lines and exaggerated, tomboyish mannerisms. Making her a costume would be like plugging a Cloud costume onto Ike because they both use big swords. Doable, yeah, but not at all ideal and it isn't true to the character in the slightest.

Yo, Daisy is my Mario Kart and Mario Party main so I'm glad she's here.

I just wish they would've done more than make her "Peach with hearts". Like make her faster or a bit stronger or idk.

 

[osby]

So, to everyone here, who is you favorite Echo Fighter? Mine is , but Ken and look interesting.

Still and if we are talking about characters. I loved them in Uprising and Awakening.

Gameplay and appearence wise, it's

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah, the underdog you'd never expect.

Also, I just remembered that if we go by canon, Rosalina can teleport to her Comet Observatory in like an instant from some celebratory winning screens, and Bowser legit teleports back to his base on the center of the universe in Galaxy, the one where he wasn't eatinf cosmic matter to make him thicc

Lets be honest though canon-wise pretty certain many characters could had escaped.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Too bad his Minecraft content didn't show up then today, ain't it?

He also didn't peg the only DLC we know of so far, so I'm calling VeggieTales is out of steam.

Besides that, we have only a few things Minecraft content could be for:
- Music. Why bother if you're not gonna license anything else from the game (beyond that, is Minecraft known for it's music? No.)
- Assist Trophy. Doubtful considering they gave us a definitive number.
- Stage. See Assist Trophy.
- Spirit. Again, why bother to pay the licensing fee for a character from a rival company when if you're not even gonna use the character?
- Boss. Don't make me laugh. What are we gonna get, a giant Creeper?

No, he knew about Piranha Plant.

He just didn't say anything about it, and can you blame him?

Like, if yesterday he had said "The non-Incineroar Nintendo character is Piranha Plant," would any of us have actually believed him? Even myself, who has always believed Vergeben at his word, would call bull****.

Not even Vergeben and his source ****ing believed it. So what'd he do? He rightfully erred to the side of caution.

Excuse me if both me and my source had a hard time believing they'd actually adding Piranha Plant despite how completely real the footage looked. Put yourself in my position. Someone who has as much ire from people like yourself as I do.
I am not going to say "PIRANHA PLANT IS PLAYABLE" if no one else has heard the same and all we have to go off of is a watermarked video that could have been some wacky elaborate fake to mess with people. The funny thing is that it was real.

Good play on his part.

I still believe in Vergeben. Dude's been 100% right so far, and his source that said we'd get Minecraft content is his most reliable one (if I recall correctly).

Minecraft Content could take the form of anything. All we know is that we're getting it. At this point, we're 99.99% going to get either Steve as a playable character with a stage and music, or Banjo & Kazooie as a character with a stage and music and Steve and other Minecraft content being side content (Mii Costumes, Spirits, Assist Trophies, etc.).

Unlike the Sora/Geno debate, there's no clear winner to this one in my opinion. Steve has raw widespread popularity through Minecraft, but I would say that Banjo's fanbase is one of the most dedicated fanbases out there and have definitely made their voices heard.

 

[DevaAshera]

It is but I wish they all could be like Chrom.

Like I'm glad Daisy is a fighter but what is so special about her that meant she couldn't be a costume this time?

Simple, Daisy has a more energetic personality then Peach does, so her doing Peach's movements and mannerisms doesn't fit Daisy even if the moveset does. It would be like if Shadow was a costume for Sonic..he wouldn't be doing the happier, more cocky mannerisms of Sonic when he's a more brooding 'emo' type of character.

 

[Nethermoosen]

And Mario has also punted castles and can obliterate tanks by slamming his *** down onto them as well as give a large dragon a concussion.

Little Mac is a better comparison cause he's legit a weakling compared to even the Star Fox characters

Mario also gets hurt by mushrooms with eyes touching him. Pick your poison. The canon route to understanding Smash characters is paved with inconsistent physics and general confusion.

 

[Noipoi]

My favorite echo? Probably HI I'M DAISY

 

[Shroob]

I don't hate him. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Minecraft content was shaky from the beginning.

They've pretty much revealed everything they've deemed as important enough to reveal in the Direct. If Minecraft content of any kind was there, you damn well know it would've been placed in there due to how big the franchise is in gaming history, but you know what?

Sakurai deemed the Help menu and a brightness slider more important. Not to mention that fact Vergeben was caught lying today, claiming he knew about Piranha Plant when all he gave was a vague "It's a Nintendo character" answer. If he really knew, then he would have said something along the lines of "It's an unexpected character/It's a Mario character/It's Piranha Plant." He knew about every other character (sans Richter) and yet he claims this bull? No. I have never believed we'd get Minecraft content and I will not believe it until I see it with my own two eyes, Vegeta-ben be damned.

I mean, the Piranha Plant video "DID" leak last night.

A whole bunch of people on ResetEra were claiming that they had seen it and said it was "Strange, weird, and 'not sure what to think about it'"


Verg seeing it isn't surprising at all when like, god knows how many people saw it last night.

 

[osby]

Lets be honest though canon-wise pretty certain many characters could had escaped.

Dunno, Galeem pretty much nuked the entire universe. Even Kirby seemed to escape barely since *insert canon hand-wave to justify a need for a starter character*

 

[doomedtacox]

No, he knew about Piranha Plant.

View attachment 174984

He just didn't say anything about it, and can you blame him?

Like, if yesterday he had said "The non-Incineroar Nintendo character is Piranha Plant," would any of us have actually believed him? Even myself, who has always believed Vergeben at his word, would call bull****.

Not even Vergeben and his source ****ing believed it. So what'd he do? He rightfully erred to the side of caution.


Good play on his part.

I still believe in Vergeben. Dude's been 100% right so far, and his source that said we'd get Minecraft content is his most reliable one (if I recall correctly).

Minecraft Content could take the form of anything. All we know is that we're getting it. At this point, we're 99.99% going to get either Steve as a playable character with a stage and music, or Banjo & Kazooie as a character with a stage and music and Steve and other Minecraft content being side content (Mii Costumes, Spirits, Assist Trophies, etc.).

Unlike the Sora/Geno debate, there's no clear winner to this one in my opinion. Steve has raw widespread popularity through Minecraft, but I would say that Banjo's fanbase is one of the most dedicated fanbases out there and have definitely made their voices heard.

Well said. I'm hoping we'll get two separate Microsoft DLC packs, one minecraft and one Banjo.

 

[Starbound]

I still believe in Vergeben. Dude's been 100% right so far, and his source that said we'd get Minecraft content is his most reliable one (if I recall correctly).

At this point, Minecraft is the only thing MIA now from him, right?

 

[Nethermoosen]

As an actual character, Richter
Aesthetically, Dark Samus
Gameplay wise, Ken.

Boy, if Dark Samus did her crazy Prime 3 ****, you KNOW I'd be on her like peanut butter on jelly.

Dude....you put peanut butter on your jelly? That sounds like a pain in the ass.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Dunno, Galeem pretty much nuked the entire universe. Even Kirby seemed to escape barely since *insert canon hand-wave to justify a need for a starter character*

Suppose you're right I guess.

 

[DevaAshera]

My favorite echo? Probably HI I'M DAISY

Since Hilda, Medusa, or Dixie Kong didn't happen, same here.

 

[Shroob]

At this point, Minecraft is the only thing MIA now from him, right?

2nd Square Rep but Spawn Wave has that covered with Sora it seems.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Lets be honest though canon-wise pretty certain many characters could had escaped.

Well... Falco probably could've escaped in the Arwing as well as Fox, but I don't think they necessarily have the tech in those to outrun a galaxy being wiped of all life.

Shulk if he had the Monado III...

Maybe Sonic? I also doubt he'd be able to escape the galaxy in time.

Yeah, I don't know, bob.

 

[Idon]

In terms of recoveries, my boy Ike did take a hit in exchange for his aerial buffs.

• Side B now has a cap to being charged, so you can't mix it up as well.
• Up B doesn't go through stage, so you can't "shark" people anymore.

Honestly, I can live with the UpB change, as it does look more aesthetically pleasing, but man, I wish I could charge forever or simply just get an instant short side-B.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Too bad his Minecraft content didn't show up then today, ain't it?

He also didn't peg the only DLC we know of so far, so I'm calling VeggieTales is out of steam.

Besides that, we have only a few things Minecraft content could be for:
- Music. Why bother if you're not gonna license anything else from the game (beyond that, is Minecraft known for it's music? No.)
- Assist Trophy. Doubtful considering they gave us a definitive number.
- Stage. See Assist Trophy.
- Spirit. Again, why bother to pay the licensing fee for a character from a rival company when if you're not even gonna use the character?
- Boss. Don't make me laugh. What are we gonna get, a giant Creeper?
- Mii Costume. I'll admit this one's actually a possibility, but it would be uncanny to look at as it wouldn't match Minecraft's iconic choppy animation style, and this seems like something they would've spotlighted in the direct.

Or... y'know... a PLAYABLE CHARACTER.

 

[Idon]

Dude....you put peanut butter on your jelly? That sounds like a pain in the ***.

What? You never had a PBnJ sandwhich?
I swear, I feel like I've stumbled upon a society of aliens.

 

[LuigiBros7]

What you got seems awfully similar to scenario 2, save some minor differences.

I wouldn't consider the glaring lack of side modes and removal of trophies to be minor things. That's what also really soured me about the Direct and is sticking with me after it's over. It's just bizarre to have it be emphasized over and over that this is the Ultimate Smash, then get told that trophies were too much, and for staple modes since Melee to be gone with no replacements. Smash 4 had a ton of scattershot half-baked modes that all gave you equipment 90% of the time anyways, but now it's like they just decided to drop any pretenses and make everything centered around equipment now, a feature that failed to catch on for two games in a row. I remember expecting Stage Builder to get cut for Smash 4, but I'm genuinely shocked it's gone for Ultimate.

I appreciate all the work that went into bringing every character and so many stages back, but knowing that other elements of the series have gotten the axe simultaneously makes it seem like the Ultimate needs an asterisk. Ultimate has had the longest development time of any Smash game, yet after today's Direct it feels strangely compromised in a way the other games didn't. Honestly, if something like the number of stages was a serious hassle, I would gladly have accepted losing 20 or 30 of them for additional gameplay modes. The roster doesn't bother me nearly as much as other people, but I can see the issue of it feeling like Piranha Plant is just dancing on the graves of everyone's hopes and dreams, and god forbid if the Steve and Minecraft stuff comes out as the 1st or 2nd DLC.

 

[Zinith]

And all I wanted was all the OG 8 to survive so the theme would have more meaning besides "just cause"

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Mario also gets hurt by mushrooms with eyes touching him. Pick your poison. The canon route to understanding Smash characters is paved with inconsistent physics and general confusion.

Yes, and Kirby has died to an apple falling on him when he's punched planets into dust.

Nothing but a game mechanic. Even then, one could argue those mushrooms would have to be pretty strong then as it has just as much evidence going for it as the opposite being true and making Mario seem weak.

At the end of the day, these are semantics, I guess

 

[Shroob]

Like, yeah, Piranha Plant 'did' in fact leak to the, pardon my French, Insiders last night.

Their reactions were all over Resetera and I'm surprised and yet proud none of them said what it was.


I legit don't blame him for NOT saying what it was, because....... I mean, people were already saying "Virgin-bin's gone off the deep end! He said Isaac's an Assist!".... Yeah, no... saying something as insane as "A PLAYABLE PIRANHA PLANT" would have made him seem even wackier.

 

[Idon]

Like, yeah, Piranha Plant 'did' in fact leak to the, pardon my French, Insiders last night.

Their reactions were all over Resetera and I'm surprised and yet proud none of them said what it was.


I legit don't blame him for NOT saying what it was, because....... I mean, people were already saying "Virgin-bin's gone off the deep end! He said Isaac's an Assist!".... Yeah, no... saying something as insane as "A PLAYABLE PIRANHA PLANT" would have made him seem even wackier.

"They hated him because he told the truth."

 

[staindgrey]

If poor recovery is the price Chrom has to pay in exchange for a sword that actually acts like a sword, I'll take it.

Lucina: Father! I can't believe we have to fight the Legendary Hero King! And the Brave Lion of Pherae!
Chrom: Relax, Lucina. Remember what I taught you?
Lucina: Use the entire sword?
Chrom: Precisely.
Lucina: But what about recovery?
Chrom: ...
Lucina: ...
Chrom: Is recovery a Smash thing? I just got here.

 

[doomedtacox]

I wouldn't consider the glaring lack of side modes and removal of trophies to be minor things. That's what also really soured me about the Direct and is sticking with me after it's over. It's just bizarre to have it be emphasized over and over that this is the Ultimate Smash, then get told that trophies were too much, and for staple modes since Melee to be gone with no replacements. Smash 4 had a ton of scattershot half-baked modes that all gave you equipment 90% of the time anyways, but now it's like they just decided to drop any pretenses and make everything centered around equipment now, a feature that failed to catch on for two games in a row. I remember expecting Stage Builder to get cut for Smash 4, but I'm genuinely shocked it's gone for Ultimate.

I appreciate all the work that went into bringing every character and so many stages back, but knowing that other elements of the series have gotten the axe simultaneously makes it seem like the Ultimate needs an asterisk. Ultimate has had the longest development time of any Smash game, yet after today's Direct it feels strangely compromised in a way the other games didn't. Honestly, if something like the number of stages was a serious hassle, I would gladly have accepted losing 20 or 30 of them for additional gameplay modes. The roster doesn't bother me nearly as much as other people, but I can see the issue of it feeling like Piranha Plant is just dancing on the graves of everyone's hopes and dreams, and god forbid if the Steve and Minecraft stuff comes out as the 1st or 2nd DLC.

Well trophies and home run, etc seem minor to me compared to everything else in the game, so it's personal preference I guess.

 

[Shroob]

Like, we all need to ask ourselves this:


When Plant was given a Splash screen, what was the first thing you thought/said/felt?


Now double that emotion in an INCREDIBLY hostile "Us vs Them" environment of the other night if Verg had actually said "Oh yeah, playable Piranha Plant."

 

[Nethermoosen]

What? You never had a PBnJ sandwhich?
I swear, I feel like I've stumbled upon a society of aliens.

Lol. I most certainly have. I just tend to put the jelly on last because it’s easier that way.
I’m just figuratively jerking on your literally metaphorical chain