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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.

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Gyrom8

Gyrom8

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DRM4R10 said:
I think it's way too late. Brawl should have introduced a Gen 3 Pokémon, because between Melee and Brawl, Gen 3 and Gen 4 came out. What we got instead was 3 new Gen 1 Pokémon (yes I'm counting them as separate characters, since they basically have all the moves of a character, with the exception of Down Special), and a Gen 4 Pokémon, Lucario.

The same thing happened with Smash 4. Between Brawl and Smash 4, we had Gen 5 and Gen 6 that were released. So Gen 5 was skipped, and the only newcomer Pokémon we got is Greninja from Gen 4.

Brawl and Smash 4 (before DLC) lacked Pichu and Mewtwo, a Gen 2 and a Gen 1 Pokémon, but in Ultimate, if you list all the generations with the number of representatives they have, you get: (assuming Grinch leak is official)
Gen 1: 6 Pokémon: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard
Gen 2: 1 Pokémon: Pichu
Gen 3: 0 Pokémon
Gen 4: 1 Pokémon: Lucario
Gen 5: 0 Pokémon
Gen 6: 1 Pokémon: Greninja
Gen 7: 0 Pokémon.


It makes sense that Gen 1 would get the most representatives since it is the most marketable generation, but the problem with Gen 3 onwards is that you don't have pokémon that really stick out and can be recognised. Lucario was really popular because of its film and other reasons, but I feel like Gen 3 and Gen 5 don't have really have a pokémon like Lucario. And since those generations are kinda becoming less relevant and the Pokémon universe already has a lot of characters, I'm not sure we'll ever get a smash game with at least one representative per generation.
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It's a shame how Gen 3 and 5 haven't got much: 5 has a stage and 3 has even less. As you said, its partly because they have no standout pokemon (yes, Gardevoir and Chandeulre are popular and they're both in Pokken, but neither was anywhere near as marketed as Lucario or Greninja). I think the same might be true for Gen 7 too. Sure, there are more prominent ones like Incineroar, Lycanroc, Mimikyu, Bewear and maybe a few others. But that's the problem: there isn't an obvious one above and beyond the rest

I also agree that it's because of Smash's unfortunate development cycle, where the latest generation (4 or 6) is going to get more attention than the older one. Still, I don't think we've seen the limit of Gen 7 representation in Ultimate yet. Whether the Grinch leak is real or not, I feel like we're getting a few more stages. I also can't see Sakurai completely ignoring the Ultra Beasts given how important they are to Gen 7.
 
Guybrush20X6

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Well we'll know in anywhere from 12 to 41 days.


Worst case scenario, the direct comes and only shows Ken.
 
Gyrom8

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Smashing Ramen said:
This leak is driving us nuts... I'm starting to wish that it never happened...

It's still kicking
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I wish it'd never happened. Sure, it's livened up discussion and provided some great OC, but it would have been much better if it hadn't potentially spoiled upcoming reveals. And we'd have known most of it in a couple of weeks anyway. It also probably made Sakurai cry. And who wants that?
 
Cosmic77

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The DanMan051 said:
Two of them are Echoes/glorified alt costumes (with one of them being added last minute in Smash 4 alongside two others), with Chrom having a single sorta unique move that's derived from Ike. And of course the whole Roy being a semi-clone deal (reminded of an argument on the subreddit where people were trying to say Roy should've been classified as a Marth Echo).

And here's a google trends analysis comparing interest for K. Rool, Ridley, Geno, Chrom, and Simon Belmont-- with "Smash" included in the query --during 2015 (the bulk of which was the Ballot period):
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2015-01-01 2015-12-31&geo=US&q=Geno Smash,Ridley Smash,King K Rool Smash,Chrom Smash,Simon Belmont Smash
Funnily, this dovetails with your bit about Geno, because there was seemingly more interest/demand for Chrom than there was for him (remove the spike from when Geno was announced as a Mii Fighter costume, and Chrom's advantage is pretty decisive).

So, there clearly was some interest in him getting in, moreso than the likes of Geno, and his implementation was easily done and harmless enough. I just don't see the point of really feeling strongly either way about Echoes; because, as I said, they're really just glorified alts. It's ironic how a couple tiny differences and their own spot on the CSS makes so much difference to some people.
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I'm not saying I have an issue with Chrom himself as much I am with his moveset. If Sakurai really wanted to add Chrom as an Echo, then at least give him more of Ike's traits rather than those of Marth's/Roy.

I'm just tired of Marth's generic moveset being the fallback option for any FE sword character who wasn't lucky enough to be unique. We're getting to a point where it's become excessive, and while I'm glad Chrom supporters finally got their day, I would've gladly taken a different FE character as an Echo if it meant getting an Ike or Robin clone.
 
TMNTSSB4

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Guybrush20X6 said:
Well we'll know in anywhere from 12 to 41 days.


Worst case scenario, the direct comes and only shows Ken.
Click to expand...
No...the worst case scenes would be a new direct that shows no character (new or old, playable or an Assist...just items and stages...no music also...or just 40 minutes of Sakurai giving us all a death stare that kills the leaker)
Cosmic77 said:
I'm not saying I have an issue with Chrom himself as much I am with his moveset. If Sakurai really wanted to add Chrom as an Echo, then at least give him more of Ike's traits rather than those of Marth's/Roy.

I'm just tired of Marth's generic moveset being the fallback option for any FE sword character who wasn't lucky enough to be unique. We're getting to a point where it's become excessive, and while I'm glad Chrom supporters finally got their day, I would've gladly taken a different FE character as an Echo if it meant getting an Ike or Robin clone.
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if it makes you feel better...Chrom took Roy’s moveset, Ike’s recovery, and is inferior to Lucina in everything...obviously
Jetsurge said:
I think I put it best with this earlier -
View attachment 172615
Click to expand...
How the Grinch Ruined Captain America
 
Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Wyoming said:
There's only three ways this could end:

A. Official reveal by Nintendo that includes all of these characters or doesn't include them at all.
B. If it is a leak - the creator comes forth and shows us how he or she did it.
C. The craziest one here, but...if another leak comes up and is much much more believable.

It will be people on both camps arguing about semantics or details until one of these things happens.
Click to expand...
Slight repair to A

Just one or more character reveal and it’s real if it’s a character from the leak and is close to the right spot and exact same pose as the leak then it’s real

Example the mach rider would have to be on the right side next to the inklings with the gun in the left hand

And there’s also one more thing
D. The hanging grinch render found someplace - not the grinch render that’s known but the present he’s connected to the yellow one with the red ribbions if it’s found in public that’s proves it’s real because it’s was a real thing being worked on

(But really I’m sure the next reveal will happen by then.)
 
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DRM4R10

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Gyrom8 said:
It's a shame how Gen 3 and 5 haven't got much: 5 has a stage and 3 has even less. As you said, its partly because they have no standout pokemon (yes, Gardevoir and Chandeulre are popular and they're both in Pokken, but neither was anywhere near as marketed as Lucario or Greninja). I think the same might be true for Gen 7 too. Sure, there are more prominent ones like Incineroar, Lycanroc, Mimikyu, Bewear and maybe a few others. But that's the problem: there isn't an obvious one above and beyond the rest

I also agree that it's because of Smash's unfortunate development cycle, where the latest generation (4 or 6) is going to get more attention than the older one. Still, I don't think we've seen the limit of Gen 7 representation in Ultimate yet. Whether the Grinch leak is real or not, I feel like we're getting a few more stages. I also can't see Sakurai completely ignoring the Ultra Beasts given how important they are to Gen 7.
Click to expand...
Now that I think of it, Pokémon Trainer shouldn't have been limited to 3 Gen 1 pokémon. It would have been nice if, Charizard was kept but if Squirtle was changed with mudkip and Ivysaur was changed with Bayleef.
Mudkip -> Gen 3 - Somewhat popular pokémon from a meme
Bayleef -> Gen 2 - Not really popular but I suppose Ash owned one
Charizard -> Immensely popular Gen 1 Pokémon that Ash also owned in the anime. His other 2 Kanto starters did not evolve.

Maybe my arguments for Bayleef and Mudkip were kinda weak, but I think it'd work because you'd still have Charizard who is really popular, and it would made Brawl have Gen 1, 2, 3 and 4 representatives. I'd understand that Squirtle is popular, but Ivysaur has never even had that much attention until Brawl.

This doesn't solve Gen 5 I suppose, but Zoroak would be a nice addition since it's covers a new type (Dark)
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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Gyrom8

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DRM4R10 said:
Now that I think of it, Pokémon Trainer shouldn't have been limited to 3 Gen 1 pokémon. It would have been nice if, Charizard was kept but if Squirtle was changed with mudkip and Ivysaur was changed with Bayleef.
Mudkip -> Gen 3 - Somewhat popular pokémon from a meme
Bayleef -> Gen 2 - Not really popular but I suppose Ash owned one
Charizard -> Immensely popular Gen 1 Pokémon that Ash also owned in the anime. His other 2 Kanto starters did not evolve.

Maybe my arguments for Bayleef and Mudkip were kinda weak, but I think it'd work because you'd still have Charizard who is really popular, and it would made Brawl have Gen 1, 2, 3 and 4 representatives. I'd understand that Squirtle is popular, but Ivysaur has never even had that much attention until Brawl.
Click to expand...

This could work. Yeah, people would say 'but a Kanto pokemon trainer shouldn't have Johto and Hoenn mon'. True. But unless you're playing Yellow, they shouldn't really have three starters on their team anyway. Besides, Smash already has characters with moves they can't technically learn, so this really wouldn't matter either way.
 
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Wow I can't wait till the next direct where Sakurai disproves the leak by releasing Elma with a Grinch echo :4pacman:
 
shinhed-echi

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I wonder if it's too late to take a "no-spoilers, I want to be surprised" stance.

I feel there'll be nowhere to run from the massive surge of vids and images once they reveal everything like they said they would.
 
Tollhouse

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Thinkaman said:
Tbqh I have no idea why everyone jumped to assuming that this Eric guy was responsible just because his name was on a piece of paper in a print shop, nor why everyone assumed that the Grinch stuff had anything to do with it, nor why generic print shop stuff like AutoCAD commands or diagrams are significant.

It's a fake leak made in a print shop. It's not rocket surgery.
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Can you perform surgery on rockets?

Guys, is this saying there is a direct on friday or is this just for the invitational?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QyQWFVRDQE
 
Nekoo

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Das Koopa said:
When I say proof, part of what I'm referring to is -

-Tweets of these predictions.

-Clarifying if they've gotten things wrong before.

-Noting if they were the first to actually bring the claim to light, or if they are simply piggybacking off of other reliable people.

I mean actual evidence. You're saying "they did this", and that's well and fine, but people also regularly say a lot of things that are demonstrably false. I know that's pedantic to ask for an actual pseudo-investigation and number of tweets/sources, but that's the nature of making claims on the internet about leaks. People who make those claims shouldn't be trusted until they are right, and if they are right, it needs to be timestamped and compared with other insiders who made the claim to see if that person was the first.

Outside of that, it's hearsay, and it's absolutely useless, because it's information they refuse to make public for the purposes of an actual investigation. That's why a lot of people, including myself, don't trust insiders on the face of it.

Now, you're also bringing papagenos into this, and that's fine - I don't see any reason to take his claims at face value either. I'm not aware of anything he's leaked before. If someone could illuminate, that'd be good, but otherwise I trust him as much as I trust any other potential insider.
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For Spawn-Wave, I can 100% tell you that, what be claimed, he was the first to do so everytime before people piggybacked HIM.
It has been a year, and for now he hasn't been wrong once and right now he's the one who take the biggest bet of all Insiders.

- Lean towards fake. Mural is missing Incineroar and another Character he jnows about
-Claim that There going to be DLC announced during the VGA
-Think that the leak will be proved fake this week or the next one (Supposedly next direct)
 
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Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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ToasterBrains said:
to be fair, people are being especially nasty about this "leak".
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Never said they weren't. Still not as toxic as the battles of the Box Theory and how condescending it was. Didn't help that they teamed up with followers of Vergeben who'd brutalize folks who dared to claim that Verg's suggestions weren't guarantees.
 
RandomAce

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Pakky said:
Can I just say how sold I am on this design for Mach Rider ?

View attachment 172598

So good, also calling her 'Mach' is cute... don't judge me.


Imagine if she's :ultfalcon: with a gun and big smash attacks involving her bike?
Click to expand...
Just remove the cleavage and then the design would perfect for me.

I like Anime Girl Mach Rider more and I think at least her looks should at least be based on this one with the NES Arcade outfit.
 
DarthEnderX

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The DanMan051 said:
And here's a google trends analysis comparing interest for K. Rool, Ridley, Geno, Chrom, and Simon Belmont-- with "Smash" included in the query --during 2015 (the bulk of which was the Ballot period):
Click to expand...
Don't confuse people googling "who the hell is this?" with a geniune desire for the character.
 
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