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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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ZephyrZ

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Watching some Pokemon Trainer footage right now. Just saw Squirtle switch to Ivysaur, but it was too fast for his opponent to react to and punish. Immedietly afterwards Ivysaur landed an F-tilt and used that opening to switch to Zard who got a kill with u-throw.

I know you all will hate me bringing that painfully long argument from the other night back up but I can't help but think about how Pokemon Switch was being called "slow and impractical" the night before. It's somewhat hard to react to, stalls in mid air, and has frame data only slightly worse then a Sm4sh air dodge. But no, it's a bad move because it doesn't have a hitbox and having competent secondaries is apparently impossible....

I still predict mid tier for the Trainer at absolute worst.
 
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PsychoIncarnate

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I might actually think about maining Squirtle if he had the Squirtle Squad glasses
 

osby

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My gripes come from, A, the writing, and B, how they execute it. How we live in a society where we can say Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had ****ty voice acting yet KINGDOM HEARTS has phenominal voice acting...

We really do live in a society.

View attachment 164403
Are't Kingdom Hearts scripts are intentionally basic so that they can be easily translated?
 

Dukeofdeath5

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If we’re getting a Dragon Quest Rep, it better be Slime. He’s the most iconic part of the series and honestly I want to see what kind of crazy **** Sakurai can come up with for such a strange character.
Id much rather see Slime be an AT or something while a main character being a fighter, mostly cause it's the closest we'll ever get to Goku in smash
 

osby

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Slime I'd be down for.

What I WON'T be down for is the dark side of the internet coming out. Like how they've done with Isabelle.

View attachment 164404
Honestly, Isabelle's reveal proved a lot of fans were just acting nice after K.Rool and Ridley. Half of the "be thankful" fans suddenly vanished, leaving vitriolic people behind. Just because a character popular in casual fans revealed.
 

Dukeofdeath5

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Honestly, Isabelle's reveal proved a lot of fans were just acting nice after K.Rool and Ridley. Half of the "be thankful" fans suddenly vanished, leaving vitriolic people behind. Just because a character popular in casual fans revealed.
I honestly just think its the exact same people who've been complaining since the begging they just had an actual excuse now
 
D

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Honestly, Isabelle's reveal proved a lot of fans were just acting nice after K.Rool and Ridley. Half of the "be thankful" fans suddenly vanished, leaving vitriolic people behind. Just because a character popular in casual fans revealed.
Nah mate, I don't mean the hate and vitriol.

I mean hentai on the timeline.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I was only pissed about Isabelle because I felt like that Nook thing in the end was a low blow. Don't tease him like that only for him to not get in!
 

Nonno Umby

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I'm posting here my thoughts on the whole box theory debate:
I don't buy it for several reasons. People immediately assumed that the artist, who has to be an external to Nintendo, who made this box-art knows the final roster, or at least the number of fighters. But what if that isn't the case? It would make sense to not tell anyone extern such a precious information, since it is preventing a possible leak. So let's think it in another way: why were the characters placed in that order?

Considering that Isabelle is missing, the graphic artist had 69 (if Mii Fighters and Pokémon Trainer are counted as 1) to place. As you all know 69 isn't an even number, so in order to split them between two sides he had to create either 70 or 72 spaces.
Now if he went with the easier 70, that would have meant 35 characters for side, which would result into a 5×7 or a 7×5 template, which no matter how you arrange, it doesn't look too good since it squishes the boxes, making them slim and tall. But with 72 spaces we have a clean 6x6 template, much cleaner to the eye. Let's not forget that the job of a graphic artist is to make something appealing rather than something that makes sense or is functional.
Now what about those empty spaces? With 69 characters that means that we have 3 empty slots, but leaving all 3 on a single side probably doesn't look too good since it is half a row, so he splitted between the two sides, one on a side and two on the other.
For the way the characters were added it seems to be just a "9 here, then the next 9 there" pattern, very easy and that mixes them better than just do "first 36 on a side then the rest on the other".
And that's about it. He made this template just because it looked nice, but due to a coincidence the blanck spot on the other side can be fit with a heavely rumored character (rumor started by the only reliable leaker who is currently expectung 3 more characters, but I digress), but if this artist really knows about Ken in order to leave a spot for him then he is informed about the whole roster, and that's before Isabelle was even revealed! It would be a huge risk for leaks, and we know they want to avoid them at all cost. Not even all the employee at the Threehouse can even SEE the game, in fact the main NoA reps who talk about Ultimate are Nate and Bill, two of the higher ups at NoA. I really doubt they would let the entire roster in the hands of an external graphic designer...especially if they don't even hand him the Isabelle artwork.

Thinking about it, it is similar to the European LE, which features the "Everyone is Here!" artwork. It was revealed shortly after the Smash direct in August, but it already featured the updated artwork with Simon, Richter etc etc. Considering this I wouldn't exclude that the American LE was made during/before August like the European, and that would also explain the total lack of Isabelle in it. Why would they have held off the announcment? They waited to reveal the Smash Pro Controller separately, and then waited for the next Direct, just like how the European LE was announced after a Direct.
And if it was really made in August that makes even less likely that they would have revealed the roster to an extern artist.

Also we shouldn't forget that this is clearly a Work in Progress since it lack Isabelle, if more than two characters are revealed then we can see those icons resized and rearanged in order to accomodated them, and they might even fill the empty slots with the game logo if they so decide. And all of this is completely ignores the back of the box, which might even have more characters. It might even feature the Original 8 there because that is the starting roster for all we know.

In the end I don't belive this theory, it just feels like people looking at the website slots i order to predict how many fighter we will see, and we know what those type of reasoning brought us. "Wolf is surely DLC" or "There have to be 5 more characters in Smash 3DS" are just the first examples that come inti my mind. And the worse part is that we are basing this off a box made by an external source instead of Nintendo's official site.

Also it doesn't make sense ti remain with just 2 more characters, one of which is an echo, to announce right before release, when in August you revealed 5. Heck, what would be the reason to end witn Ken and Inceneroar over Simon, Richer, KKR etc etc? None of them are particularly requested or popular, and none of them comes from the Ballot. Ending just with them seems like a very bad marketing choices. And Sakurai, someone who even explained during E3 how to keep the pacing if a video going strong in one of his columns, knows that this would be a quiet ending the the huge hype cycle of this game.
It's also uncharacteristic of him to do something like this. He usually reveals last the characters that, while might not be super popular or requested, bring some very unique movesets and mechanics to the game. Brawl ended with Olimar and his Pikmin moveset based around managing them and Smash For with Shulk and his Monado arts. I just can't see an echo and Inceneroar, who while unique lacks this kind of extra flavour, filling this role.
 
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Kaeltor

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My only guess is that he got most of the characters out of the way so he could focus exclusively on Spirits mode in the next Smash direct
I wonder if this new "spirits" mode (or whatever it's called) will have enough substance to it to bring hype. I feel like the loudest of us tend to fiend about character reveals the most.

We won't know till the next direct which will be late-October or in November if I were to guess when. I do expect it to be a smash centric direct too.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I wonder if this new "spirits" mode (or whatever it's called) will have enough substance to it to bring hype. I feel like the loudest of us tend to fiend about character reveals the most.

We won't know till the next direct which will be late-October or in November if I were to guess when. I do expect it to be a smash centric direct too.
I watched a lot of people reacting to the K Rool and Ridley reveals and the ones that were more ignorant of the characters kept on thinking it was for a version of SSE being revealed and were hyped about that.

So, if Spirits is any kind of story mode it does have an audience
 

Dukeofdeath5

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I wonder if this new "spirits" mode (or whatever it's called) will have enough substance to it to bring hype. I feel like the loudest of us tend to fiend about character reveals the most.

We won't know till the next direct which will be late-October or in November if I were to guess when. I do expect it to be a smash centric direct too.
If its Subspace 2 people will loose their minds

If its flashy adventure mode people will be hype but dissapointed

If its adventure mode people will riot

Unfortunately that's just how it'll go
 

osby

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I wonder if this new "spirits" mode (or whatever it's called) will have enough substance to it to bring hype. I feel like the loudest of us tend to fiend about character reveals the most.

We won't know till the next direct which will be late-October or in November if I were to guess when. I do expect it to be a smash centric direct too.
I feel like a lot of Brawl/casual fans are looking forward to a story mode.

Now, a Subspace Emissary 2.0 is extremely unlikely, but I can see Sakurai framing a simpler but tighter game mode with a basic story in a direct. We'll see.
 

osby

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If its Subspace 2 people will loose their minds

If its flashy adventure mode people will be hype but dissapointed

If its adventure mode people will riot

Unfortunately that's just how it'll go
It won't be an Adventure Mode ala Melee. We at least have proper bosses instead of Mario characters with a coat of paint.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I was only pissed about Isabelle because I felt like that Nook thing in the end was a low blow. Don't tease him like that only for him to not get in!
Yeah, I still think Tom Nook should be the second Animal Crossing rep. Despite Isabelle’s huge breakout role, Tom Nook himself is pretty damn iconic at this point and they could make a hilarious move set with him.

Though, as Animal Crossing fan I can’t say I was disappointed with the reveals of the Direct after some thought. Isabelle made me upset for all of like an evening, and that was because I’d gotten too excited for other characters and more because I was frustrated that “relevancy” arguments get renewed with her inclusion. And there is nothing I want to discuss less than relevancy all the time. That said, I just watched the trailer a few more times, remembered my love for Animal Crossing and accepted her with open arms. I actually wish she didn’t share as much as she did with Villager, but eh, she’s too damn cute for me to have any real ill will towards. Plus if I’m being honest I had her so pegged for an Echo that my pride might have clouded my initial judgment on her haha.

All that said, she is one of the more limited newcomers and with the box theory going around it’s going to suck speculation wise since people are just going to point to both of those and constantly yell about the ballot picks not getting in (Either as the people shutting everyone down with the pessimism of this theory, or the fact that it’s a great way to turn the communities on one another if there is such a thing as one slot). There’s also Vergeben who gets the status of basically a demigod at this point... I’m not really looking forward to speculation anymore with that all in mind, which is a shame. It just makes things so boring.

And I don’t believe the box theory, cause seriously one echo and one unique? That still seems a bit too low, especially on the Echo front where there are several options and ideal picks. Plus, there is no way we get Ken and NOT Shadow Echo fighter wise.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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This is ridiculous. Who'd want a character who's just another playable character but with shades? I mean really... :yoshi:
You ain't slick. I know exactly what you're talking about.

James McCloud.
 
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Soulsaint

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I am more and more happy Isabelle is in and that she is more unique then we thought shed be, she is so cute and full of personality. Gamexplains slow down and analysis really shows how much.
 

osby

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Well, that'd explain all the DARKNESS.
If the script is translated literally maybe. Japanese tends to be more repetitve than English, at least in media uses.

Atypical of JRPGs, almost all characters avoid using role language and opt using standart Japanese with almost no variation in first person pronouns. That might explain why some people find characters dull, since they have no unique style of speech.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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There is a couple more differences between James McCloud and Captain Falcon than just the shades
 

zyaire33

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Let’s all take a minute to remember how Sakurai put Pit in Brawl. I might be wrong be Pit was a nobody before Brawl. I had no idea who he was but he seemed cool. Made a forgotten character no one asked for cool again.

Let’s also not take for granted that frickin Ridley is in. They did the absolute impossible. Remember how hopeless it was for him? Game and Watch in Melee(wth is that thing), ROB in Brawl, WFT, Dark Pit, not mention that the idea Dunk Hunt Dog in Smash was a mostly a meme.

Speculation is fun and all, but anything can happen at any point and Sakurai clearly does what he wants.
 

StormC

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Anyone who ever thought Nook would get in before Isabelle by this point was just asking for disappointment.
 

JaidynReiman

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I'm all-in on the box theory. It's sound. It's logical. It's drawing from what's actually given rather than grasping at straws.

The only thing that still perplexes me, assuming that we are, in fact, only getting two more newcomers and one of them is a Pokemon... why did they announce both Simon and K. Rool in August? The timing of that direct made it seem like they still had a lot left to show in terms of the roster. In hindsight, again assuming that the box theory holds up, that felt more like an early October direct, to distract potential customers from the other big releases coming in November.
I'm guessing they wanted to reveal everyone early on, and in the final Direct focus mostly on teasing recurring DLC releases as well as the new game mode.



I'm posting here my thoughts on the whole box theory debate:
I don't buy it for several reasons. People immediately assumed that the artist, who has to be an external to Nintendo, who made this box-art knows the final roster, or at least the number of fighters. But what if that isn't the case? It would make sense to not tell anyone extern such a precious information, since it is preventing a possible leak. So let's think it in another way: why were the characters placed in that order?

Considering that Isabelle is missing, the graphic artist had 69 (if Mii Fighters and Pokémon Trainer are counted as 1) to place. As you all know 69 isn't an even number, so in order to split them between two sides he had to create either 70 or 72 spaces.
Now if he went with the easier 70, that would have meant 35 characters for side, which would result into a 5×7 or a 7×5 template, which no matter how you arrange, it doesn't look too good since it squishes the boxes, making them slim and tall. But with 72 spaces we have a clean 6x6 template, much cleaner to the eye. Let's not forget that the job of a graphic artist is to make something appealing rather than something that makes sense or is functional.
Now what about those empty spaces? With 69 characters that means that we have 3 empty slots, but leaving all 3 on a single side probably doesn't look too good since it is half a row, so he splitted between the two sides, one on a side and two on the other.
For the way the characters were added it seems to be just a "9 here, then the next 9 there" pattern, very easy and that mixes them better than just do "first 36 on a side then the rest on the other".
And that's about it. He made this template just because it looked nice, but due to a coincidence the blanck spot on the other side can be fit with a heavely rumored character (rumor started by the only reliable leaker who is currently expectung 3 more characters, but I digress), but if this artist really knows about Ken in order to leave a spot for him then he is informed about the whole roster, and that's before Isabelle was even revealed! It would be a huge risk for leaks, and we know they want to avoid them at all cost. Not even all the employee at the Threehouse can even SEE the game, in fact the main NoA reps who talk about Ultimate are Nate and Bill, two of the higher ups at NoA. I really doubt they would let the entire roster in the hands of an external graphic designer...especially if they don't even hand him the Isabelle artwork.

Thinking about it, it is similar to the European LE, which features the "Everyone is Here!" artwork. It was revealed shortly after the Smash direct in August, but it already featured the updated artwork with Simon, Richter etc etc. Considering this I wouldn't exclude that the American LE was made during/before August like the European, and that would also explain the total lack of Isabelle in it. Why would they have held off the announcment? They waited to reveal the Smash Pro Controller separately, and then waited for the next Direct, just like how the European LE was announced after a Direct.
And if it was really made in August that makes even less likely that they would have revealed the roster to an extern artist.

Also we shouldn't forget that this is clearly a Work in Progress since it lack Isabelle, if more than two characters are revealed then we can see those icons resized and rearanged in order to accomodated them, and they might even fill the empty slots with the game logo if they so decide. And all of this is completely ignores the back of the box, which might even have more characters. It might even feature the Original 8 there because that is the starting roster for all we know.

In the end I don't belive this theory, it just feels like people looking at the website slots i order to predict how many fighter we will see, and we know what those type of reasoning brought us. "Wolf is surely DLC" or "There have to be 5 more characters in Smash 3DS" are just the first examples that come inti my mind. And the worse part is that we are basing this off a box made by an external source instead of Nintendo's official site.

Also it doesn't make sense ti remain with just 2 more characters, one of which is an echo, to announce right before release, when in August you revealed 5. Heck, what would be the reason to end witn Ken and Inceneroar over Simon, Richer, KKR etc etc? None of them are particularly requested or popular, and none of them comes from the Ballot. Ending just with them seems like a very bad marketing choices. And Sakurai, someone who even explained during E3 how to keep the pacing if a video going strong in one of his columns, knows that this would be a quiet ending the the huge hype cycle of this game.
It's also uncharacteristic of him to do something like this. He usually reveals last the characters that, while might not be super popular or requested, bring some very unique movesets and mechanics to the game. Brawl ended with Olimar and his Pikmin moveset based around managing them and Smash For with Shulk and his Monado arts. I just can't see an echo and Inceneroar, who while unique lacks this kind of extra flavour, filling this role.
I can definitely see the argument, but I think its legit. I think Isabelle is missing for a different reason entirely.


And I don't think the final character is Incineroar. I completely agree. I honestly believe its Isaac. The final reveals in the past two games were Olimar and Shulk.


But I do think this is the final lineup. They hastily edited out Isabelle and Isaac, and didn't really think people would figure out there's one more character on the back.



People are only guessing Incineroar anyway. Probably based on Vergeben, whose last couple reveals are debunked if this is true anyway.
 

osby

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Anyone who ever thought Nook would get in before Isabelle by this point was just asking for disappointment.
Agreed. Though, I can't judge, I similarly thought Dixie Kong would make it in to the game instead of K.Rool.
 

papagenos

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I'm posting here my thoughts on the whole box theory debate:
I don't buy it for several reasons. People immediately assumed that the artist, who has to be an external to Nintendo, who made this box-art knows the final roster, or at least the number of fighters. But what if that isn't the case? It would make sense to not tell anyone extern such a precious information, since it is preventing a possible leak. So let's think it in another way: why were the characters placed in that order?

Considering that Isabelle is missing, the graphic artist had 69 (if Mii Fighters and Pokémon Trainer are counted as 1) to place. As you all know 69 isn't an even number, so in order to split them between two sides he had to create either 70 or 72 spaces.
Now if he went with the easier 70, that would have meant 35 characters for side, which would result into a 5×7 or a 7×5 template, which no matter how you arrange, it doesn't look too good since it squishes the boxes, making them slim and tall. But with 72 spaces we have a clean 6x6 template, much cleaner to the eye. Let's not forget that the job of a graphic artist is to make something appealing rather than something that makes sense or is functional.
Now what about those empty spaces? With 69 characters that means that we have 3 empty slots, but leaving all 3 on a single side probably doesn't look too good since it is half a row, so he splitted between the two sides, one on a side and two on the other.
For the way the characters were added it seems to be just a "9 here, then the next 9 there" pattern, very easy and that mixes them better than just do "first 36 on a side then the rest on the other".
And that's about it. He made this template just because it looked nice, but due to a coincidence the blanck spot on the other side can be fit with a heavely rumored character (rumor started by the only reliable leaker who is currently expectung 3 more characters, but I digress), but if this artist really knows about Ken in order to leave a spot for him then he is informed about the whole roster, and that's before Isabelle was even revealed! It would be a huge risk for leaks, and we know they want to avoid them at all cost. Not even all the employee at the Threehouse can even SEE the game, in fact the main NoA reps who talk about Ultimate are Nate and Bill, two of the higher ups at NoA. I really doubt they would let the entire roster in the hands of an external graphic designer...especially if they don't even hand him the Isabelle artwork.

Thinking about it, it is similar to the European LE, which features the "Everyone is Here!" artwork. It was revealed shortly after the Smash direct in August, but it already featured the updated artwork with Simon, Richter etc etc. Considering this I wouldn't exclude that the American LE was made during/before August like the European, and that would also explain the total lack of Isabelle in it. Why would they have held off the announcment? They waited to reveal the Smash Pro Controller separately, and then waited for the next Direct, just like how the European LE was announced after a Direct.
And if it was really made in August that makes even less likely that they would have revealed the roster to an extern artist.

Also we shouldn't forget that this is clearly a Work in Progress since it lack Isabelle, if more than two characters are revealed then we can see those icons resized and rearanged in order to accomodated them, and they might even fill the empty slots with the game logo if they so decide. And all of this is completely ignores the back of the box, which might even have more characters. It might even feature the Original 8 there because that is the starting roster for all we know.

In the end I don't belive this theory, it just feels like people looking at the website slots i order to predict how many fighter we will see, and we know what those type of reasoning brought us. "Wolf is surely DLC" or "There have to be 5 more characters in Smash 3DS" are just the first examples that come inti my mind. And the worse part is that we are basing this off a box made by an external source instead of Nintendo's official site.

Also it doesn't make sense ti remain with just 2 more characters, one of which is an echo, to announce right before release, when in August you revealed 5. Heck, what would be the reason to end witn Ken and Inceneroar over Simon, Richer, KKR etc etc? None of them are particularly requested or popular, and none of them comes from the Ballot. Ending just with them seems like a very bad marketing choices. And Sakurai, someone who even explained during E3 how to keep the pacing if a video going strong in one of his columns, knows that this would be a quiet ending the the huge hype cycle of this game.
It's also uncharacteristic of him to do something like this. He usually reveals last the characters that, while might not be super popular or requested, bring some very unique movesets and mechanics to the game. Brawl ended with Olimar and his Pikmin moveset based around managing them and Smash For with Shulk and his Monado arts. I just can see an echo and Inceneroar, who while unique lacks this kind of extra flavour, filling this role.
This.
if you were to make a mock up box with the fighters on the side you might end up doing what we got with the number of available fighters at the time (isabelle isnt on the box so the person making that art used what they had available at the time). I think sakurai would be way more careful and random box art people probably dont even have the full roster to work with anyway and so they made this with what they had.


Also i havent seen this brought up yet really but...

theres two missing spots on the side.

if you do a bunch of math and assume the two box sides fit 36 each AND how the characters should be aligned in set of 9 etc... you still end up with 2 missing fighters. thats basically the conclusion we are drawing with "the box theory", that there are two spots left...

well than that means your average joe who doesnt follow smash speculation super hard and doesnt do a bunch of math and analysis of the box could STILL just see this mock up box image and simply think "Two blacked out spots... TWO more fighters left!" and if this theory is to be believed then that means they would be right?

seems horribly unlikely nintendo would blatantly leave TWO missing spots in an image when at the time of the images release two is all we have left thus the extremely "simple" answer is correct.

When WE, the hardcore smash community, do a bunch of sluthing and forensics to figure out the order of the characters and the remaining newcomers left it feels like it might be real because it took work and thoughtful reasoning to come to that conclusion. it feels like we "earned" the answer to the final roster count. BUT it ignores the fact that if you DIDNT do all that and just looked at the box it has two blacked out spots for two missing characters and that would be what 90% of the casual fan base who saw the image might immediately think and theyd be right.

i cant imagine they'd allow that answer (two more) to be ascertained so simply.

tldr: theres only two more fighters left if we do all this detective work on the box and number of characters etc... BUT they also simply left two blank spots on the box, so most people without any effort might immediately think "two left" and i cant believe nintendo would make the correct amount of remaining newcomers so obvious to anyone who glanced at the box art and didnt think about it much.
 

JaidynReiman

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This.
if you were to make a mock up box with the fighters on the side you might end up doing what we got with the number of available fighters at the time (isabelle isnt on the box so the person making that art used what they had available at the time). I think sakurai would be way more careful and random box art people probably dont even have the full roster to work with anyway and so they made this with what they had.


Also i havent seen this brought up yet really but...

theres two missing spots on the side.

if you do a bunch of math and assume the two box sides fit 36 each AND how the characters should be aligned in set of 9 etc... you still end up with 2 missing fighters. thats basically the conclusion we are drawing with "the box theory", that there are two spots left...

well than that means your average joe who doesnt follow smash speculation super hard and doesnt do a bunch of math and analysis of the box could STILL just see this mock up box image and simply think "Two blacked out spots... TWO more fighters left!" and if this theory is to be believed then that means they would be right?

seems horribly unlikely nintendo would blatantly leave TWO missing spots in an image when at the time of the images release two is all we have left thus the extremely "simple" answer is correct.

When WE, the hardcore smash community, do a bunch of sluthing and forensics to figure out the order of the characters and the remaining newcomers left it feels like it might be real because it took work and thoughtful reasoning to come to that conclusion. it feels like we "earned" the answer to the final roster count. BUT it ignores the fact that if you DIDNT do all that and just looked at the box it has two blacked out spots for two missing characters and that would be what 90% of the casual fan base who saw the image might immediately think and theyd be right.

i cant imagine they'd allow that answer (two more) to be ascertained so simply.

tldr: theres only two more fighters left if we do all this detective work on the box and number of characters etc... BUT they also simply left two blank spots on the box, so most people without any effort might immediately think "two left" and i cant believe nintendo would make the correct amount of remaining newcomers so obvious to anyone who glanced at the box art and didnt think about it much.
I agree with all of this. I think this was a quick reaction to delaying a character's reveal. They didn't intentionally leave those two slots blank, it just happened due to the Direct delay and restructuring.
 

MasterOfKnees

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A little disappointed in this box theory now that I've seen it, I thought we had found something big with the way people were freaking out over it. It's literally a 3D mockup of a product that's not supposed to be on the shelves for another 3 months, changing the design of it to fit future reveals takes no time at all. There's even a decent chance that the people who made that design don't even know the final roster as they're part of the marketing team, they only know what they need to know about, nothing more.

This is Brawl-era theory level, which were almost always crazy (35 vs 48 characters just based on the CSS' design for example). It's nothing.
 

JaidynReiman

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A little disappointed in this box theory now that I've seen it, I thought we had found something big with the way people were freaking out over it. It's literally a 3D mockup of a product that's not supposed to be on the shelves for another 3 months, changing the design of it to fit future reveals takes no time at all. There's even a decent chance that the people who made that design don't even know the final roster as they're part of the marketing team, they only know what they need to know about, nothing more.

This is Brawl-era theory level, which were almost always crazy (35 vs 48 characters just based on the CSS' design for example). It's nothing.
I would agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that its clearly designed with the idea in mind there's one extra character on the other side who is unannounced.
 

ZephyrZ

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On the topic of the box theory again, I really think that the graphic designer would be one of the special people who knows the full roster. They probably just keep a very close eye on them.

I'll say this again - box art is very, very important. It's likely all Grandma will have to be going off of when she goes to Walmart to pick out a Christmas gift for little Jimmy. I seriously doubt they just slap it all together at the very last second before release based off a template some guy who doesn't even know what he's working with made. At the very least they'd probably have to know the newcomer count in order to do their job, but realistically they probably have to know the whole thing.

And again, returning veterans take up a lot of development time. It's the reason Sakurai gave for us not getting Mewtwo in Smash 4's base roster - they have to be rebuilt from the ground up. We're not just looking at :ultinkling::ultkrool::ultridley::ultsimon: :ultisabelle: here, we're looking at :ulticeclimbers::ultpichu::ultsnake::squirtle::ivysaur::ultwolf: and :ultyounglink: as well. If we get one more unique newcomer on top of that, we're looking at 13 unqiue characters which compared to Sm4sh's 15 ain't shabby at all.

Basically what I'm saying is that Pichu stole Goku's roster spot. Grab your pitchforks.
 
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UberMadman

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There's even a decent chance that the people who made that design don't even know the final roster as they're part of the marketing team, they only know what they need to know about, nothing more.
Since you just got here, I don’t know if you noticed, but the position in which Corrin is placed suggests that one of the characters in the range of Palutena to Cloud is receiving an unannounced echo fighter. If the graphic design team is accounting for an unannounced echo, it seems likely they do know the roster, unless you want to explain all of this off as mere coincidence like a lot of people seem to be doing.
 

Door Key Pig

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Man DLC is gonna be lit for characters, covering characters considerable after the initial project plan time frame and maybe ones preferable to include through DLC because of licensing. I just hope Sakurai doesn't overwork himself to death...
 
D

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Listen guys... At the end of the day, whether it'd be talking about Sora, if Geno would get in or the Box Theory, I think we can all agree. That after this is over, the speculation dies down a bit when the game comes out, we're all playing the game, dumping our lives into it unlocking everything, and overall having a great time in our lives...

One day...

We will know what the **** Kingdom Hearts is...

Screenshot (1051).png
 

osby

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Man DLC is gonna be lit for characters, covering characters considerable after the initial project plan time frame and maybe ones preferable to include through DLC because of licensing. I just hope Sakurai doesn't overwork himself to death...
I just hope people won't hype themselves for potential Isaac/Geno/Skull Kid (is this our new big three?) DLC. New characters and guests (that possibly not Banjo-Kazooie or Geno) are likely to dominate DLC.
 
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