Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Icedragonadam]

The wording implies that you can only choose three full sets instead of mixing and matching each of the 3 B moves.

 

[---]

I wonder if the Miis will use their victory theme from Smash 4? Hopefully they will be available competitively this time.

Huh, it updated on the US site, but not the British one.

So... the US doesn't get Falco, France doesn't get Marth and the UK doesn't get Mii Fighters?

Well, we have to wait and see if it's just late, but...

Falco is on the US site, it's just that for some reason he's not listed with the other fighters. The same thing happened with Kongo Falls & Mega Man 4 Medley not being listed with their franchises.

Whoever is managing these sites really needs to step up their game.

 

[ned_ballad]

The wording implies that you can only choose three full sets instead of mixing and matching each of the 3 B moves.

Yea, that’s what I read it as too. The wording is really awkward, though

 

[BluePikmin11]

A concept of Doomguy I found on r/smashbros:

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What is with Daisy fans calling you "Waluigi supporter" if you say something even slightly negative about Daisy?

Are they just used to fighting with Waluigi fans or something?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The wording implies that you can only choose three full sets instead of mixing and matching each of the 3 B moves.

That would be a serious downgrade to customizations. And there's also the matter of the Mii Outfits and Mii Headgear, since they're used to customize your Mii fighter's appearance.

 

[Idon]

Golurk, because giant robutts and all that jazz.



They should have just made it its own thing, instead of being a "crossover" that looks like neither series. Battletoads & Double Dragon was more of a crossover than that, and it was a Battletoads game with Billy and Jimmy as guest fighters (good game, though).

Y'know had it not been for the soul crushing 2 year destruction of all my hopes and dreams, I might've actually bought it.
Shame.

Spoiler: Only thing I could think of

 

[Pyra]

One of those 12 voice options better be Danny DeVito.

 

[KMDP]

Y'know had it not been for the soul crushing 2 year destruction of all my hype, I might've actually bought it.
Shame.

Spoiler: Only thing I could think of

View attachment 154027

They really should have called it Persona x Fire Emblem if that's what it was going to be, huh?

 

[Zerp]

Well if the Mii Fighter are today's characters.


Can I just say I love playing as the Miis?

I know a lot of people think they feel off but I love the way they feel.

Even if they have moves copies from other characters, they still feel really unique.

I'm glad they might be viable and legal and I'm glad they'll be on online.

I also love the Miis, they're great, I don't really play them at all anymore but I like them a lot, never understood why so many people hate them, customizing characters is fun. Hopefully with them being available online that'll make them become legal in tournament, I feel like For Glory gave people the idea that it was okay to not let the Mii mains play their character because they're "not real characters" so I think it's likely they'll finally become legal everywhere. Although, I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for them being viable, they might become that, but trust me when I say that I know from experience that getting your hopes up for viability can end very poorly, you don't want to do that, assuming the worst is better.

What is with Daisy fans calling you "Waluigi supporter" if you say something even slightly negative about Daisy?

Are they just used to fighting with Waluigi fans or something?

I don't know, I support/ed Waluigi and I don't have a problem with Daisy, and I doubt everyone else that likes Waluigi hates Daisy or something, so I'm not sure what's up with that.

 

[Deleted member]

One of those 12 voice options better be Danny DeVito.

He should be a voice option for Pikachu though.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The Miis so look really cool this time around. I wonder how they'll feel.

Pretty much everything about Sm4sh made them feel like they weren't real characters. Mainly in that you didn't fight them in All-Star mode, and they didn't even unlock until you made one.

I guess unless the stars align, I'll have to relegate Dovahkiin to a Mii. I really want his helmet for a Kirby hat though...

 

[Koopaul]

Pokemon Trainer is still the key factor among them regardless. This is why you have to go through Classic Mode 3 times to get each trophy. Only Pokemon Trainer will always get a trophy, but you'll get one per Pokemon based upon your final character when you beat Master Hand(and sometimes Crazy Hand). It's still clear who the focus overall is. Pokemon Trainer is the actual main character here. The other 3 are literally the moveset. That's the mechanic in the first place. It works just like the actual Pokemon games. It's the Pokemon that does the moves, but the Trainer that properly controls them.

You still don't seem to comprehend what I am saying here. You PLAY AS THE POKEMON and NOT AS THE TRAINER IN SMASH BROS. You don't seem to understand what makes a fighter in Smash. And why, despite being united as one entity, they are considered three different fighters in the game. How is that hard to understand?

The moveset is entirely focused around what the Pikmin are, though. That's the reason it exists. Solimar is not a "normal" thing and simply possible due to the fact that the moveset's mechanics allow it, as it matches with the regular game.

And Marth's moveset revolves entirely around his sword. Therefor you are playing as Marth's sword and not Marth. Do you hear yourself? Clearly you are playing as Olimar who is using the Pikmin as a means of attacking. You are Olimar. You are directly controling Olimar. Your weight, damage, stock, is Olimar. You are Olimar. Yes the Pikmin are his moveset. Yes they are important. OBVIOUSLY! But who you are actually playing as is the Captain. How can you not see that?

Yet the game is called Pikmin. Saying they aren't the main stars is a little silly. Olimar is the main protagonist. They're Co-Stars. Not unlike the Smash moveset itself.

What? You just called the Pikmin the main stars and then you called them the co-stars. What are they? They can't be both.

Olimar is the protagonist. He's the one you control. He's the main character of the game. Just like in Smash. YOU. ARE. OLIMAR. NOT. THE. PIKMIN.

To pretend they're not the focus of the moveset despite being the clear point of the moveset in itself(never mind being integral to the mechanic alone) is just looking at it...

I didn't say they are not the focus of the moveset. I said they aren't the character you are playing as. You are playing as Olimar, not the Pikmin. You are playing as Marth, not his sword. You are playing as Bowser Jr, not his Koopa Clown Car. You are playing as Samus, not the Varia Suit. How is this hard to understand?

My point is that it's clear what is and isn't the fighter. Olimar is the fighter, not the Pikmin despite them being the focus of the moveset.

Besides that, they aren't tools anyway. They're living beings and they emphasize this in Smash alone.

When I say they are tools, I mean you use them as tools. They don't do anything on their own without you throwing them or smacking people with them. You can not directly control the Pikmin anymore than you can control the Mechakoopa in Bowser Jr's moveset.

To drive it home further, all of Olimar's renders include the Pikmin. As in his Smash renders. You know, the character portrait, etc?

And all of Bowser Junior's Smash renders include his Clown Car.

Zelda co-stars with Link anyway. As does Ganon. They're all main characters. There can be more than one.

Obviously. My point is that Link is the protagonist just like Olimar despite the title of the game.

Except the part where Dr. Mario was a last second clone and the only key difference was something unique to him, Megavitamins. In addition, he also unique music to add and was very very easy to implement. Besides that, unlike Olimar, Dr. Mario was focused far more on the Doc itself than simply the Megavitamins(his only unique point). The Viruses are the Co-Stars in it, but also don't show up beyond small cameos. Which makes sense, cause he's a clone. And the fact Pikmin & Olimar are based upon how they play in the home games. So yes, it does matter.

Holy crap. You completely missed my point. My point is that there doesn't need to be a home game explanation for why a character has different stats or needs to be justified as an echo. There is no home game reason why Dr. Mario is stronger than regular Mario. He was a last minute addition and all echos are last minute additions. They essentially have exactly the same moves except with some slight tweeks that don't need an explanation.

If Alph was a last minute echo, they could easily just make him faster than Olimar. Or slower. Or whatever. Is Alph faster than Olimar in the Pikmin series? No. But is Dr. Mario stronger than Mario in his series? No.

Dark Pit has unique abilities as an option(Alph didn't), including the Dark Pit staff, and the inability to use the Three Sacred Treasures, the main reason he was cited by Sakurai himself to actually be separated. Because he couldn't do that move. Alph can do everything Olimar can do without any issues(I do agree using the same ship is silly, though). The only real difference is what the Pikmin, who again, are canonically a huge focus of the game(to deny this is ridiculous) itself as well as Olimar's story, can do. Now that the Pikmin have to be used in Smash no matter what(which is logical, since that was the point of the moveset in the first place), the only real way to separate the two is to have new Pikmin to focus on.

No! Like I said they could make Alph faster and lighter or something. He doesn't need new Pikmin. Again. There is very little reason to justify an echo other than to pad out the roster. They are relatively easy to make and you can come up with any excuse to have them in there.

The Koopalings are costumes because it would be impossible to make 8 unique movesets in that given time. The actual moveset is the Koopa Clown Car itself. The Koopalings work fine as costumes simply because they all have shared the exact same role as Bowser Jr., being Bowser's children and pretty much were bosses for Mario and Co. to battle. In fact, the only reason they are alts is because they were easy to make work due to the Koopa Clown Car being the moveset, so throwing them in took little work. It's in fact the same way Pikmin & Captain(which is a pretty accurate name) are done. Besides that, the alts are more or less deemed unimportant and just treated as extras anyway. That's why very few of them got amiibo.

Once again you miss my point. I am saying in Smash it doesn't have to make sense whether something is a costume or a clone or an echo. It's whatever is easy to make. Alph being an echo would be easy to make. All you need to do is change is stats a bit. That's all. That what most echoes are anyway. Slight difference in strengths and speed but their moves are exactly the same. That's why Alph having all the same Pikmin would be fine as an echo.



So let me make this nice and clear to you because you seem to be having a severe problem understanding this.

1. You PLAY as Olimar. Not the Pikmin.

2. Yes the Pikmin are the focus of his moveset but they are NOT the character you are playing as.

3. Echoes are usually easy last minute additions to the roster.

4. Echoes aren't much different from the character that are based on. So an Alph echo would be basically the same as Olimar.

5. Echos can have slight differences from the character they are based on that make no sense. Like Dr. Mario being stronger than Mario. So Alph could have a slight difference from Olimar that makes no sense.

Got it? Good.

 

[Deleted member]

Although, I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for them being viable, they might become that, but trust me when I say that I know from experience that getting your hopes up for viability can end very poorly, you don't want to do that, assuming the worst is better.

I mean sure, having Miis be viable would be nice, but even if they aren't, at least the 5 Mii mains that exist can finally use their character in tournament.

 

[KMDP]

Although, I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for them being viable, they might become that, but trust me when I say that I know from experience that getting your hopes up for viability can end very poorly, you don't want to do that, assuming the worst is better.

You know what they say, "Expect nothing and you'll never be disappointed."

 

[MBRedboy31]

I mean sure, having Miis be viable would be nice, but even if they aren't, at least the 5 Mii mains that exist can finally use their character in tournament.

Even that might be expecting too much, we’ll have to wait and see...

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

You know what they say, "Expect nothing and you'll never be disappointed."

Huh... I think I saw images that questions this line of thought:

 

[Zinith]

Still want top-tier Yoshi regardless

Early Smash 4 days were prescient...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Now all we need is information on fighter customization. Even something like the following image would be a start...

please let unlocking all the custom moves actually be sensible if custom moves come back

 

[Deleted member]

Even that might be expecting too much, we’ll have to wait and see...

I'm already worried for the tournament ruleset for this game. The stage list has the potential to be amazing, yet I'm imagining a future where stuff like Town & City is banned. Miis being illegal would just be the icing on the cake.

 

[Zerp]

I mean sure, having Miis be viable would be nice, but if they aren't, at least the 5 Mii mains that exist can finally use their character in tournament.

Oh no, I'm not saying Miis finally getting a definitive legality wouldn't be great for Mii mains, I'm just saying getting hopes up for viability could end badly, I mean, I thought it was reasonable to expect a Bottom Tier in Brawl to not be Bottom Tier the next game, and I thought for certain that they'd have to eventually patch that character, at some point, that'd be reasonable right? Yet somehow, everything still managed to go wrong, what I'm saying is that no matter how obvious it might seem that the Miis should get buffed and become viable, it's completely possible they won't.

You know what they say, "Expect nothing and you'll never be disappointed."

I'm living proof that statement isn't always true lol. Near the end of Smash 4's updates I expected nothing from the patches and I still managed to end up feeling upset every time I saw that little "No changes" next to Jigglypuff.

Edit: Grammar.

 

[Kotor]

Well since the Miis are our fighter of the day, which VAs would you like to see as one of the 12 voice options. You don't need to list 12, just whoever you can think of.

 

[Zinith]

Or you can have a character who was MASSIVELY overhauled between games to be more fun and viable to play, and he still barely moved up the tier list...

 

[Roberk]

Miis in Smash are one of the coolest things ever for Smash. Like, they're actual avatar characters and not just default designs/personalities like Villager/Robin. If they were a bit more viable/streamlined I'd definitely main them.

Well since the Miis are our fighter of the day, which VAs would you like to see as one of the 12 voice options. You don't need to list 12, just whoever you can think of.

Matt Mercer. We need more Matt Mercer in Smash.

Patrick Seitz. "Oho!" "My blade is unbending!"

I'd say Greg Chun but thankfully we got him for Ike.

Can't really think of anything else right now but they should definitely go all out for Mii voices.

 

[KMDP]

I'm living proof that statement isn't always true lol. Near the end of Smash 4's updates I expected nothing from the patches and I still managed to end up feeling upset every time I saw that little "No changes" next to Jigglypuff.

Well, deep down you were obviously hoping for something.

And hope leads inevitably to despair, and that despair gives birth to an even greater hope!

 

[Deleted member]

Well since the Miis are our fighter of the day, which VAs would you like to see as one of the 12 voice options. You don't need to list 12, just whoever you can think of.

There's no chance of this happening, but I'd love to have Eden Sher as an option because then I wouldn't have to mod the game and learn rigging to port the mod over to play as Star Butterfly.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Huh, it updated on the US site, but not the British one.

So... the US doesn't get Falco, France doesn't get Marth and the UK doesn't get Mii Fighters?

Well, we have to wait and see if it's just late, but...

Well I'm in the US and I'm not seeing it, and I've cleared my cache

When in doubt, refresh.

Also, did anyone notice how ridiculously fluid their trailer is? Much more framerate than most of the others.

I don't know, I support/ed Waluigi and I don't have a problem with Daisy, and I doubt everyone else that likes Waluigi hates Daisy or something, so I'm not sure what's up with that.

I blame the shippers somehow.

 

[KMDP]

When in doubt, refresh.

If refreshing doesn't work, hard refresh (CTRL-F5)

 

[Freduardo]

So, basing my Smash discussion today on my Switch activity log for today.

Finally downloaded sonic mania.

Any chances you think Mighty or Ray become (non assist) trophies? I mean they have no 3d models.

So, Sky Skipper is a retro title recently unearthed? Could it have any Smash use?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, basing my Smash discussion today on my Switch activity log for today.

Finally downloaded sonic mania.

Any chances you think Mighty or Ray become (non assist) trophies? I mean they have no 3d models.

So, Sky Skipper is a retro title recently unearthed? Could it have any Smash use?

Too early for both, maybe trophies at best.

 

[Koopaul]

Sorry I exploded before. But man. I just hate it when people miss my point.

I'll try to be more calm in the future.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Well since the Miis are our fighter of the day, which VAs would you like to see as one of the 12 voice options. You don't need to list 12, just whoever you can think of.

On a side topic, it’d be cool if you could dub your own voice over the Miis (is it possible to plug in a mic since the Switch doesn’t have one?) The custom voices would be local only, but it’d be cool having your voice for your Mii or record characters’ voices for Miis standing in for existing characters.

 

[KMDP]

Finally downloaded sonic mania.

Any chances you think Mighty or Ray become (non assist) trophies? I mean they have no 3d models.

When Tails joins the battle, Ray is in charge of the loop.

Ray: Leave it to me!
Also, Mighty and Ray do technically have 3D models, the Saturn-era style models used in the Special Stages.

 

[Deleted member]

Well if the Mii Fighter are today's characters.


Can I just say I love playing as the Miis?

I know a lot of people think they feel off but I love the way they feel.

Even if they have moves copies from other characters, they still feel really unique.

I'm glad they might be viable and legal and I'm glad they'll be on online.

Me too.
Now I can make Edward Elric, Saitama and Spongebob and play them online.

 

[Tailisu10]

Well since the Miis are our fighter of the day, which VAs would you like to see as one of the 12 voice options. You don't need to list 12, just whoever you can think of.

Johnny John Bosch, Matthew Mercer, Xander Mobius, Christina Vee, Christine M Cabanos, Erica Mendez.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

When Tails joins the battle, Ray is in charge of the loop.

Ray: Leave it to me!
Also, Mighty and Ray do technically have 3D models, the Saturn-era style models used in the Special Stages.

I do kinda hope that Ray shows up in some capacity, so we could have two Rays (the other being Rayman) in the same game.

 

[Zinith]

No Bryce Papenbrook? He can scream a storm!!!

 

[KMDP]

I do kinda hope that Ray shows up in some capacity, so we could have two Rays (the other being Rayman) in the same game.

Three Rays: Ray the Flying Squirrel, Ray MK III and Rayman.
Two Robins: Isaac (JP: Robin) and Robin (JP: Reflet)
Two Roys: and
Three Kongs: Donkey, Diddy and Dixie.

 

[Deleted member]

Christina Vee, Christine M Cabanos

If this happened, I'd main Miis. The Switch's hair color options let me get the right hair colors already, but if we got these two as voice options, Madoka and Homura would be just about perfect.

I'd still prefer the Japanese voices, but the English voices aren't too terrible...

 

[KMDP]

Hmm...
Justin Briner
Christopher Sabat
Eric Vale
Jeannie Tirado
...Kevin Conroy

Japanese: Masako Nozawa, Takeshi Kusao, Mayumi Tanaka, Chika Sakamoto, Junko Takeuchi, Kazuya Nakai