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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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DarkFalcon

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Hey guys. Did you know there's this cool new Smash Bros game coming out called Smash Ultimate? It has all of our favorites returning along with Inkling and Ridley! It'd be cool if they had some sort of idea..like a suggestion box so they know who the fan favorites are they could add to this game right? :awesome:
 

Murlough

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Real talk, I don't have anything against Sakurai, but I feel like a lot of us idolize him and that isn't healthy. Yes he makes us our favorite games, but he can do wrong, he is a human, and there isn't anything wrong with pointing that out.

Edit: :ultgreninja:'d lol
I don't worship the ground he walks on. I recognize that he never had to ask us what we wanted to begin with. He could have just continued to pick whoever he wanted without any consideration on the consumers part, but he chose to listen to the fans.

That deserves (I HATE using this word but its true for once) some respect. Smash Ultimate is him attempting to appease everyone. The ballot is, theoretically, his main tool for determing the roster. Why are people actually upset that he had to make a little fib? (I'm not downplaying it. You can call it a "lie" if you so desire but not giving us one character in 4 in favor of multiple in Ultimate is objectively a good thing.)

*just now realized I said I was done with this dumb discussion*
*looks at post*
*hates self*
*posts anyway*
 
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D

Deleted member

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I think Sakurai is a great developer and he is very good at making games I want to buy and play. I know little to nothing about him as a person, but as a person, he deserves the bare minimum respect. He is also a professional and one of the most esteemed developers in the industry; people criticizing him on a video game forum he will never read is not going to affect his life. Nobody is saying he's evil or awful or he should piss off.

He should be praised for what he does right. Being criticized for what he does wrong doesn't cancel that out. If you can't look critically at the products and art you enjoy, you're doing yourself a disservice as a consumer.
I understand you should not idolize Sakurai and that no one here is criticizing Sakurai.
I also know that the two things you said do not cancel out, but....

I have to show respect to him.
I mean he works really hard on this games...
I know he could care less, but it is like supporting someone you love even if they can not read it.
 

StormC

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It's absolutely true that if this was EA, Activision or Sony there would be a massive outcry. With Nintendo it's a shrug of the shoulders.

The whole scenario is more amusing to me than anything, really.
 

Idon

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Nah, let's not jump the gun here and assume ballot "winners" = "SSBU newcomer"
Whether he uses the ballot or not is sunconfirmed. It's a hypothetical that many believe at the very best.
 
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StormC

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I understand you should not idolize Sakurai and that no one here is criticizing Sakurai.
I also know that the two things you said do not cancel out, but....

I have to show respect to him.
I mean he works really hard on this games...
I know he could care less, but it is like supporting someone you love even if they can not read it.
Showing respect is fine. People here saying "omg he gave us Ridley and all the veterans cut him some slack" is not respect, it's talking down on others who have legitimate concerns with how business has been conducted with these games.
 

papagenos

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Supposedly they also pulled something shady with arceus with its hidden ability and some fan vote in thing for pokemon black and white too, where people flooded the polls with ditto (smogon wanted his hidden ability) and mudkip (4chan thought it was meme tastic) and arceus wouldnt be moved from the #1 spot no matter how much they flooded the poll... suspiciously enough arceus with the hidden ability i guess had never been released in NA soooo many people think nintendo rigged it to give arceus out and the fan votes never mattered.
 

DarkFalcon

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I just want this whole thing to blow over so we can actually talk about the game again.
 

Zerp

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I don't worship the ground he walks on. I recognize that he never had to ask us what we wanted to begin with. He could have just continued to pick whoever he wanted without any consideration on the consumers part, but he chose to listen to the fans.

That deserves (I HATE using this word but its true for once) some respect. Smash Ultimate is him attempting to appease everyone. The ballot is, theoretically, his main tool for determing the roster. Why are people actually upset that he had to make a little fib? (I'm not downplaying it. You can call it a "lie" if you so desire but not giving us one character in 4 in favor of multiple in Ultimate is objectively a good thing.)
I mean technically, we don't know for a fact if the results really will be used for Smash Ultimate, they say that they'll be used in future titles, but they never specifically say Smash Ultimate, and even if they say that, they fibbed before so I'm not trusting it until I see more characters like K. Rool/Bandana Dee/Isaac happen. We also don't really know if he really listened to fans or not for it.

*just now realized I said I was done with this dumb discussion*
*looks at post*
*hates self*
*posts anyway*
Oh come on, don't hate yourself, you're pretty cool if you ask me.
"Gotta go slow!" - :sonic:

I find it funny that Sonic managed to slow down a game, how ironic.
 

Miikon

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People here tend to forget that gaming companies sometimes have to plan way in advance while still keeping their cards close. The ballot may have been in a similar situation to the PS4's light bar, Its actual purpose couldnt be revealed, because PSVR was still in deep development, but Sony had to tell people something as to why it exists and drains battery life.
Nintendo may have planned for a smash sequel for the then known NX, and wanted the fans' wishes. But they had to make an excuse for its existence and so "it was for Sm4sh DLC" rather than a sequel. Because the latter would have made the Wii U playerbase rage, because resources were already relocated to a console coming years from then.
 

DLEAF

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My two cents on the whole Bayo thing is that, the moment passed. When Bayonetta was revealed I was shocked and confused, I had no idea who she was, and when they said she didn't win the NA vote, I was especially upset. But that was 2 years ago. If this was revealed sooner, I would have some words with Nintendo. But getting mad at it now, when we're already getting a new game, it just seems silly. I mean, the ballot was essentially "Who would you like to pay for?" And considering people bought Bayo, why should they lose any sleep? Nintendo got their money, and we got a unique character.

But it is interesting to think... will Nintendo have another ballot after this news?
 

Untouch

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It's absolutely true that if this was EA, Activision or Sony there would be a massive outcry. With Nintendo it's a shrug of the shoulders.

The whole scenario is more amusing to me than anything, really.
except EA has done this before lol
they staged protests for dante's inferno
no one cared, they mostly laughed
 

TMNTSSB4

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I wouldn't like to have more than one third party from each franchise, since I like it as a Nintendo all stars with some guests from other non Nintendo games.
But, if we got Tails I would be happy, he is my fav. Sonic character, so... couldn't complain about that.
I wouldn’t complain about any good Sonic character being playable in Smash
I've got a wild idea for you all to speculate over: What if some of the ballot winners make it in and at least one of them isn't who you think it is?
As long as they’re good and they make Viridi or any character who had a Mii costume a playable character, I’ll accept
It's been a little under 18 hours since I last posted and you guys are STILL going on about the ballot.

You guys are wilin' out right now.
yes...yes they are
 

N3ON

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Feeling's mutual. Besides, most of us likely cheated with the voting anyway.
Oh yeah. Big time. And I've zero remorse. ;)

The Sonic reveal was legendary and finally getting Olimar after the ~2 month DOJO drought was lovely, but the sting of two delays was still felt regardless, at least by the Smash fans in my circle. :(

However those examples were more misdirection than outright deceit.

It's absolutely true that if this was EA, Activision or Sony there would be a massive outcry. With Nintendo it's a shrug of the shoulders.

The whole scenario is more amusing to me than anything, really.
Well the info's delayed proliferation helps, but it's mostly the fact that Nintendo is following up with an abundance of fanservice, so people seem mollified. The others don't tend to do that.
 

JayJay55

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Showing respect is fine. People here saying "omg he gave us Ridley and all the veterans cut him some slack" is not respect, it's talking down on others who have legitimate concerns with how business has been conducted with these games.
So much this, i cannot stress it enough that Sakurai is nobody's buddy (concerning us as the customer), he's a man doing his job, people are paying for a product that he is producing. Simply telling people to be pleased with what you're given as if everyone's wants and or concerns about a product all align together is really demeaning. Not everyone is unreasonable about their concerns individuals just want the best product they can get.
 

papagenos

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I will say as far as "ballot talk exhaustion" goes, while it is a bit silly to be angry about it at this point (in fact i dont see many, if anyone really "mad" about this revelation since we are getting ultimate) it isn't entirely an "in the past" piece of news as it actually ADDS more weight to the idea that the ballot will be used for the newcomers in ultimate, so that part is very relevant to current smash speculation.

So I dont think this discussion will go away anytime soon and it does have some grounds to be important to our speculation talks up until ultimates roster is known.
 

Murlough

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Showing respect is fine. People here saying "omg he gave us Ridley and all the veterans cut him some slack" is not respect, it's talking down on others who have legitimate concerns with how business has been conducted with these games.
"Legitimate concerns."

Lol, ok.

Let me make this exceedingly clear:

*Sakurai said "The ballot will potentially decide characters for Smash 4"*

*We got Bayonetta instead*

*Sakurai actually uses Ballot to acquire multiple (as in not one) picks for a brand new game he is planning to appease more fans*

We got more candy than we were told we were getting and you all are ****ING COMPLAINING THAT YOU DIDN'T GET A SINGLE PIECE SOONER INSTEAD.

I have a hard time not talking down to this kind of thought process to be completely frank. I don't like doing this, because I genuinely want to play nice like everyone else (I don't enjoy being an ***hole), but of all things you all choose to complain about its getting more stuff you asked for?

Jesus.....yeah, he lied (kinda not really) but the effect of the result heavily outweighs the fact that he lied. "The ends justify the means"

This is a far cry from anything EA or Activision have done and the comparison is ****ing terrible.

This isn't a "No Man's Sky" situation like some of you are acting it is.
I mean technically, we don't know for a fact if the results really will be used for Smash Ultimate, they say that they'll be used in future titles, but they never specifically say Smash Ultimate, and even if they say that, they fibbed before so I'm not trusting it until I see more characters like K. Rool/Bandana Dee/Isaac happen. We also don't really know if he really listened to fans or not for it.


Oh come on, don't hate yourself, you're pretty cool if you ask me.
I'm very confused but thank you I suppose.

Seems pretty dumb to make a fan ballot, say your going to use the ballot for considering newcomers, and never use the results.

Seems far less optimal than just.....never even humoring the idea. Ridley is in the game and we got all the vets back, even though Sakurai had to "twist some arms to do it." I'm completely certain Sakurai is listening to us.
 
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P.Kat

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If we're getting a retro character again, my hope is Miria from The Guardian Legend. She's a hot robot girl who transforms into a spaceship from an NES game that isnt unknown but is still slept on more than deserved.
Never heard of her but, I'm always up for more robots and cool retro characters I'd want her as a newcomer.
So how many more 3rd Party characters does everyone think will be in the base roster?
Couple more, then DLC will bring the rest.
Who wouldn't pick Eggman instead of Shadow? :reverse:Reveal yourselves
I'd pick neither. *Blaze The Cat walks up from the shadows with her fists on fire* Fight me.
 

Omega Tyrant

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We don't know when the actual development of Bayonetta has started. That datamine only proved that ZSS data was copied in another slot. It doesn't take any effort to do such operation, and after that they might started talking with Sega about Bayonetta.

Besides we know that Sakurai and Kamiya are friend since before Bayonetta was added, and that SEGA already allowed his mascot to be in the game. There really isn't any reason to suspect that they wouldn't have let Nintendo have the rights of Bayonetta, especially since they already own an entire game (of a 2 game franchise) with all its assets.
The process of adding a character to an existing game's coding without breaking it isn't a no effort endeavor, even in the case it was just another Zamus with no Bayo assets applied yet. See the tremendous difficulty modders have had with trying to add new characters slots into Brawl and Smash 4 instead of just replacing existing characters.
 

GaroMaster

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If there is one thing that you are most excited about Ultimate, what would it be? It can be what is already announced or what could potentially happen in the future.
Personally, as much as I love all the returning veterans, stage variety is a big deal, so seeing all of these remade stages in beautiful HD as well as a hazard toggle, Battlefield, and Omega forms is just music to my ears.
 
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Miikon

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Same, but if he only gets 8 costumes then a color would have to go, and almost all Yoshi colors are loved by some people somewhere...

I'd have to go with Purple because that seems to be the least popular one
And this is why I want 16 costumes/skins/palettes per character, but it may be more work than we think. Both technically and design wise.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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I am willing to talk about anything (even stuff non-Yoshi related) except for this ballot talk. I just want this to blow over...
It's been a little under 18 hours since I last posted and you guys are STILL going on about the ballot.

You guys are wilin' out right now.
There's really nothing to talk about. Unless we want to re-tread the age old debates of Echo fighters, series representation, or even...Dora the Explorer.

There haven't even been any "leaks" minus the Fire Emblem one from last night. Almost two days without a real "leak." Why can't we have them evenly spaced out, so I have like one "leak" a day instead of five in one evening?

Right as I said that I found one. Discusses the supposed Ballot results.
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422942597
Going to be transparent because of all the hate generated lately - below are the combined Japan EU and NA results. Does not include characters already playable as of Smash Wii U/3DS​
1. Ridley (4,743,455) - playable​
2. King K. Rool (4,644,900)​
3. Geno (3,854,112)​
4. Banjo-Kazooie (3,812,777)​
5. Lip (2,998,737)​
6. Bomberman (2,812,121) - AT​
7. Sora (2,808,654)​
8. Waluigi (2,533,312) - AT​
9. Blaziken (2,532,980)​
10. Ashley (2,184,333)​
44% of votes cast were from NA. 31% were from JPN. 18% were from the EU. 5% were N/A or "Other Region". Bayonetta placed 8th overall, was not included in the above list as she is currently playable. Shrek and Goku each received a little under 2 million votes. Harambe the dead gorilla received 400,000 votes. Any actual video game character under 1 million votes was automatically blanked out from the pivot table and were disregarded - this includes Bandana Waddle Dee (212,483 votes), Mach Rider (345,555 votes), and Cooking Mama (105,300 votes)​

It's probably fake, but Sora in the Top 10 is hype AF. If he gets into the base roster I will cry. K. Rool, Geno, Lip, Ashley, and Banjo-Kazooie round out a a near perfect roster in my opinion.
 
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DarkFalcon

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It's been a little under 18 hours since I last posted and you guys are STILL going on about the ballot.

You guys are wilin' out right now.
I need help. With this and the Waluigi talk I think I might die. I want to fast forward time to when we get some real news.
 

Knight Dude

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So if we're talking new color swaps, I'd be down for a purple Mega Man color. Maybe an Orange and White one based off of the Crash Bomb too, if we're rounding out to even numbers.

For Yoshi, Orange and White are the only ones missing as far as I'm concerned. But I guess Magenta and Brown exist too.
 

Murlough

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If there is one thing that you are most excited about Ultimate, what would it be?
Personally, as much as I love all the returning veterans, stage variety is a big deal, so seeing all of these remade stages in beautiful HD as well as a hazard toggle, Battlefield, and Omega forms is just music to my ears.
New story mode hopefully.

Figuring out all the character changes.

I'm equally excited for both to be honest. Most of all I'm just happy to get a breath of fresh air from Smash 4.
 

StormC

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I'm pro-not misleading consumers, by the way. Just thought I should make that clear. Sakurai could give us 100 characters in this game and I would still feel the same way. I'm not going to raise hell and demand a refund on Smash 4 DLC. But it's worth discussing and talking about. It begs new questions about how these games' development are handled and what might have been going on at Nintendo during the Wii U era. It's interesting. That's all.

Murlough Murlough you can write a bunch of corporate apologia if you want but at the end of the day it's nothing that special. This happens all the time. Only now people are realizing Nintendo does it too.
 

lordvaati

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Look, I understand Sakurai could care less if I say he is a good man, but....
It feels good to show love to the person who created a game you really like in front of everyone to show you support for Sakurai.

I understand why you would say that, you are right. It is not like giving support is useless, however.
I still remember during Smash 4 development when he posted a picture when the first stages of his tendonitis began and the boards and other sites completely lost their ****. Shortly after a follow up post popped up on his Twitter telling everyone not to worry too much and it will be OK.

So at least on a basic level he is aware of how some feel about him.
 

Murlough

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I'm pro-not misleading consumers, by the way. Just thought I should make that clear. Sakurai could give us 100 characters in this game and I would still feel the same way. I'm not going to raise hell and demand a refund on Smash 4 DLC. But it's worth discussing and talking about. It begs new questions about how these games' development are handled and what might have been going on at Nintendo during the Wii U era. It's interesting. That's all.

Murlough Murlough you can write a bunch of corporate apologia if you want but at the end of the day it's nothing that special. This happens all the time. Only now people are realizing Nintendo does it too.
AKA you didn't bother reading what I said. I explained why complaining about this specific issue is stupid.

I'm not apologizing for anyone. I'm telling you that you are being whiney over getting more candy than you expected. Cry me a river.

EDIT: In case anyone is misunderstanding me: I'm not saying corporations should get free passes left and right for lying. I'm saying this specific instance is a nonissue. No one got hurt. We got more out of it. Stop *****ing about it please. It isn't logical.
 
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Baskerville

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So if we're talking new color swaps, I'd be down for a purple Mega Man color. Maybe an Orange and White one based off of the Crash Bomb too, if we're rounding out to even numbers.

For Yoshi, Orange and White are the only ones missing as far as I'm concerned. But I guess Magenta and Brown exist too.
I just hope for this game we get a colour edit mode.
 
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