• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
I wonder... did anyone do research to figure out what exact height and weight was most OP on each mii fighter?
 

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
Administrator
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
4,643
Location
South Carolina
I wonder... did anyone do research to figure out what exact height and weight was most OP on each mii fighter?
Not sure about Mii Swordfighter but for Brawler and Gunner, Short-Thin rules and Tall-Thick is the worst.
 

TMNTSSB4

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
29,753
Location
John Cena
NNID
No More
3DS FC
3368-4469-9312
Switch FC
SW-6414-0526-7609
As someone who has played both, Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures are not the same thing.

Four Swords Adventures has a more in depth plot, but even then they aren't the same plot.
Are they atleast apart of the same timeline (one of the many...many timelines)
 

NonSpecificGuy

V Has Come To
Super Moderator
Premium
Writing Team
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
14,015
Location
Mother Base
NNID
Goldeneye2674
3DS FC
0989-1770-6584
This argument would hold a lot more ground if the character they decided on wasn't a third party character that they had to first secure the rights to. You don't poll requests, analyze results, make a character plan and have it accepted by all involved and then negotiate rights with a third party company in two weeks.
They didn't add Bayonetta in 2 weeks though. They prepared to add her in the two weeks. There's nothing illegal about copying ZSS's bone structure to another slot. If the deal fell through all they had to do was delete that copy of ZSS.
So I was gunna say the first post until I thought second post.

Now Bayonetta might have been easy, already working with Sega and she was practically a Nintendo exclusive at the time. But then there's Cloud.

I'm not gunna pretend I know anything about the legality of securing character rights and, no offense to anyone here, I'm not gunna take the thoughts of anonymous forum members as facts and experience. So who knows if it's possible but it at least seems unlikely.
I stated above that they didn't have to have the rights to copy ZSS. They could be prepped before making a deal.
It kind of is a fraud though, or at least the way it was presented to us was. I voted after the two week period and I was convinced that my vote would you know, count for Smash 4's DLC. I'm not upset that I lost, but that they kind of misdirected us, they should have closed it within two weeks if they were only going to use the two weeks, or be more transparent about it. I'm not "raging" about it though.

Also, this doesn't prove anything but I think it's notable: https://mynintendonews.com/2012/05/...-sakurai-caught-sneaking-into-platinum-games/
Sakurai went to Platinum games before the ballot was a thing, and this could mean Bayonetta was planned BEFORE the ballot if he was say, trying to get the rights to her or something while he was there. Because of that I kind of doubt they even just did the whole 2 weeks thing, feels more like it just happened to be when they added the inevitable placeholders than them waiting to see results, but I could be wrong lol.
Misleading is the word you're looking for, and I'll agree with that. Fraudulent would mean that the whole thing was bogus and that just isn't true. They didn't just throw out the results. From what I remember it said that the votes would be considered for future fighters in the Smash Franchise and was never strictly stated to have any form of confirmation that that character would appear in Smash 4. Bayonetta happened and it was stated that it was because of the ballot. There's no reason to doubt that fact. A very vague data mine that said ZSS was copied to slot 57 is no form of confirmation that she was preplanned before the ballot.

There are a metric **** ton of direct rip models for The Wonderful 101 in Smash 4. It's more likely that's the reason he was there.
So is it literally just me then? I'm the only one I've seen here saying it's scummy. I don't think that's overreacting though, more of just a statement of what I think about the whole morality of the situation, I'm not delusional enough to think they're the only company to do this, everyone does this unfortunately, I just think the way this was all presented was immoral lol.
Calling it scummy is like comparing their use of a voting ballot to the microtransactions fiesta of EA's Battlefront II. Misleading is the word we should be using. And sure, maybe it was.
 

Impa4Smash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
1,630
I outright expect Doomguy, Nightmare, Kazuma Kiryu, Meat Boy, Mr. Doodle, Bubsy. a playable E.T Atari cartridge and 685815 more newcomers that aren't Nintendo. I will boycott the game if this doesn't happen
It will never truly be Ultimate unless Bubsy makes it in
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
What if we got Eggman instead of Shadow?

Not saying we will cuz Shadow feels assured...
 

AlphaSSB

Bring Back Star Fox
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
2,752
Location
United States
3DS FC
0018-1370-8449
Switch FC
0691-1639-9303
So how many more 3rd Party characters does everyone think will be in the base roster?
0-2. Sakurai's already got a lot of 3rd Parties already, which means a lot of licensing, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we've gotten Snake back and that's it.

At most, I see two newcomers, specifically Geno and Simon. Sakurai has spoken directly about the former, and why he made sure to get Geno in at least as a Mii Costume when he was getting the rights to Cloud. As for the latter, Sakurai has spoken that Castlevania is an important series to him, and with Snake back plus Bomberman as an Assist Trophy, it's very possible Sakurai would've pushed for Simon.
 

Impa4Smash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
1,630
What if we got Eggman instead of Shadow?

Not saying we will cuz Shadow feels assured...
I'm not sure who Eggman would be an echo of though, and I can't see him as a unique character. I can't see any 3rd Party series getting a 2nd rep that isn't an echo
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
Are they atleast apart of the same timeline (one of the many...many timelines)
Yes. They're both part of the Child Timeline (the timeline with Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess in it). Incidentally, Minish Cap, the chronologically first game of the Vaati/Four Sword trilogy, comes before Ocarina of Time, 'right' after Skyward Sword.
 
Last edited:

Impa4Smash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
1,630
0-2. Sakurai's already got a lot of 3rd Parties already, which means a lot of licensing, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we've gotten Snake back and that's it.

At most, I see two newcomers, specifically Geno and Simon. Sakurai has spoken directly about the former, and why he made sure to get Geno in at least as a Mii Costume when he was getting the rights to Cloud. As for the latter, Sakurai has spoken that Castlevania is an important series to him, and with Snake back plus Bomberman as an Assist Trophy, it's very possible Sakurai would've pushed for Simon.
Yeah, Simon and Geno seem like the two most likely.

Maaaaye Rayman if Sakurai new about the upcoming Ubisoft/Nintendo collaborations, and wanted to give Ubi a rep
 

EchoAegis

Need time to think?
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
243
I don't know why but I don't think any 3rd party franchise should get a second rep kinda ruins the special feeling of the character

Am I weird for thinking this?
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
9,547
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
Not gonna lie, it makes me a little mad to see people turning against Sakurai three weeks after he reveals Ridley and brings back every cut character.

The dude ain't perfect, but he's done some pretty spectacular things lately. Cut the guy some slack.
 

Impa4Smash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
1,630
You can't see it, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
This is true

I don't know why but I don't think any 3rd party franchise should get a second rep kinda ruins the special feeling of the character

Am I weird for thinking this?
But nah, it's a game about Nintendo characters first and foremost. I don't think 3rd Party franchises should get more than one rep either
 

Makai Wars

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
549
Location
Deepsea Metro
I don't know why but I don't think any 3rd party franchise should get a second rep kinda ruins the special feeling of the character

Am I weird for thinking this?
I think Sonic is a special case considering how many collaberations the Sonic series has done with Nintendo, I mean Sonic has been in 3 games now, is him getting a second character really that big a deal?

That being said I would rather focus on requested first parties before getting 3rd parties.
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
Who wouldn't pick Eggman instead of Shadow? :reverse:Reveal yourselves
Well, I'd pick Tails over either. *takes cover*
Literally anyone who hasn't appeared feels assured to people, everyone's expectations are way too high.
Us Isaac fans have the advantage in this race, he hasn't appeared since Brawl!
...
...
...
...
OTL
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,308
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Not gonna lie, it makes me a little mad to see people turning against Sakurai three weeks after he reveals Ridley and brings back every cut character.

The dude ain't perfect, but he's done some pretty spectacular things lately. Cut the guy some slack.
But person-who's-pronouns-I-don't-know-so-I-can't-use-mom-or-dad, those aren't the toys I want, people should only like MY toys
 

Nonno Umby

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
1,601
NNID
Nonno_Umby
Switch FC
SW 5218 5477 4500
Did anyone ever stop to consider that maybe the newcomer slot for Smash 4 DLC was added via the 2 prior weeks results? Y'know before the patch was out? Like if you say that 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to come to a good conclusion for a popular character you're objectively wrong. The first 2 weeks of the ballot was the time frame that the ballot got THE MOST attention. Is it such a surprise to say that maybe, just maybe, only those 2 weeks were taken into consideration for Smash 4 DLC while the rest was for deciding who would make Ultimate's cut? Or do we all have such a tunnel vision of rage that we get upset at stuff and call it a fraud even when we don't have the whole picture?

Seriously guys, let it go. They had no reason to lie to us and I highly doubt they lied at all. It's just a matter of circumstance to see who could've got in with the time frame they were give. Bayonetta could've been high up on requests and was still realizable (again, "Among Realizable Characters" is vague and can mean almost anything.) In the time frame given for Smash DLC. Those 2 weeks was plenty of time to gauge interest in a character who is also realizable. No one lied to us. It's not that deep. The Ballot wasn't a "fraud".
THIS

Besides, SourceGaming did a research about the most voted characters in Japan, and Bayonetta was among the Top 20. And since I'm Italian I also followed Italian forums, and I can attest that Bayonetta was very popular here. I wasn't surprised in the slithest when they said that she was the No. 1 choice in Europe, because I saw that support for her, all while other characters that were seen as Top Candidates in the USA like Shovel Knight or Isaac had little to no support over here.

And Bayonetta as the winner makes sense once you realize that they exluded the veterans, the Inklings since they already planned to do Mii fighter costumes as cross promotion, and all the potential unrealizable characters.
 
Last edited:

vaanrose

Let's Mosey
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
5,789
Location
Los Angeles
NNID
vaanrose
3DS FC
1762-2697-1591
Switch FC
SW-4679-3965-5961
They didn't add Bayonetta in 2 weeks though. They prepared to add her in the two weeks. There's nothing illegal about copying ZSS's bone structure to another slot. If the deal fell through all they had to do was delete that copy of ZSS.
If the deal fell through, any development time spent on Bayonetta would be wasted man-hours and more importantly wasted money. People can talk until they're blue in the face about whether it's legal or not to start development on a character without first obtaining the rights, but the simple truth is big companies don't like spending money when they don't have to. They'd secure the rights first.
 

papagenos

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
2,494
Location
Massachusetts
Switch FC
SW-0554-8947-9778
So how many more 3rd Party characters does everyone think will be in the base roster?
1 1/2 haha

specifically i'm banking on Simon Belmont and Geno.

Honestly i just think third parties are really "hype" drawing DLC characters and also allow further negotiation time between companies (as in sakurai can have the base roster ready to go and being worked on without worrying about getting say Ubisoft or Microsoft to the table with enough time before launch to get their character done etc...).
 

Jak_spoon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
236
Yes, nobody. I'm literally just ranting at thin air. I'm known for that I guess. I get real excited at work thinking about all the nonsense I can make up to rant about in here, later. Gets me through those long hours, you know?

Fatchu or whatever, I don't remember his actual name. He started the whole thing and a few people acted like he had legitimate ground to stand on.

The people acting like Sakrai walked up to them and gave them a smack are still pretty obnoxious too but its the legal stuff that really grinded my gears.

At this point, I wish someone would make a seperate thread for their *****ing and moaning so we can get back to speculating about the new game as opposed to throwing hissy fits about a little white lie happening last game.
First rule of online forums: Always cite sources. Or else we wont know what the hell you're talking about.

I also think this is actually a bigger deal than you are making it out to be. It was a little bit more than a white lie. They made a big deal out of the ballot and a lot of people took time and energy to campaign their characters. everyone that submitted a request had hopes for their character and took time to follow the news to see their outcome. To find out that that was all a sham really hurts the relationship between the audience with the developer. And it can become damning. For example Star Wars Ep 7 set up its audience to spend time and speculate for the future reveals of Ep 8. When all the plot points were revealed to be "We don't actually care" it essentially broke the momentum of the franchise. What Sakurai did was similar and can have the same effect. Especially if he doesn't follow up in Ultimate.

TLDR: Post your sources and people are a little justified on their whining.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
2,102
Another thought I just had.

Nothing in the original ballot from what I can find said that the #1 character would get in. It was more about suggesting characters. So it's very possible Sakurai planned dlc Bayonetta & Cloud then through the results connected Cloud to Final Fantasy requests and Bayonetta to her success in Europe & America.

More I look into it it really becomes a perspective thing. (Well...really the perspective of my number one got into Smash so I could care less about the ballot. I realize my bias).
1 1/2 haha
That's literally what I'm thinking too lol had to point out. I'm sure there will be 1 3rd party newcomer, maybe another or maybe someone like Ashley/Chorus Kids I don't know so yea I'd say 1 & 1/2 lol.
 
Last edited:

Makai Wars

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
549
Location
Deepsea Metro
Not gonna lie, it makes me a little mad to see people turning against Sakurai three weeks after he reveals Ridley and brings back every cut character.

The dude ain't perfect, but he's done some pretty spectacular things lately. Cut the guy some slack.
I don't consider discussing how Nintendo cheesed the ballot to get Bayo in counts as turning against Sakurai. Nintendo is a buisness, this whole thing was a business plot, Nintendo willingly mislead it's audience to promote Bayonetta. This is worth talking about.

Everyone in this discussion has expressed genuine disdain for taking any of this to Sakurai or even other websites, so you're going to have to explain to me how discussing something Smash related on a website created for the sole purpose of discussing Smash counts as turning on Sakurai and saying he's a terrible person or whatever. Talking about this does not suddenly mean we hate Sakurai or we're going to boycott Ultimate. Sakurai works his balls off for this fanbase but that does not suddenly mean Nintendo is absolved from any and all criticism.

If you're saying we should stop talking about it just because some people don't appreciate what Nintendo did than that's a hard disagreement from me.
 

Will

apustaja
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
33,457
Location
hell
Switch FC
SW-7573-2962-2407
*raises hand with edgy smirk on his face*

Nothing in the original ballot from what I can find said that the #1 character would get in. It was more about suggesting characters. So it's very possible Sakurai planned dlc Bayonetta & Cloud then through the results connected Cloud to Final Fantasy requests and Bayonetta to her success in Europe & America.
While this is true, nobody reads into the fine line of things.
 
Last edited:

True Blue Warrior

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
9,727
Location
United Kingdom
NNID
TrueBlueSM
3DS FC
2036-7619-4276
This has been brought up several times here, and it doesn't make any sense. First version 1.0.6 would have had its data set well before it went live, it's probable what was version 1.0.6 was set before the two weeks; they weren't editing it and adding data up to the very last minute before it going live, they have to balance test their changes and make sure everything is ready and stable then plan out when to release it. The patches themselves are uploaded to Nintendo's servers several days in advance, and have repeatedly been downloaded and datamined for their changes in advance of their actual release (or even had their new content played with early, as in the case of Roy and Ryu). Then there's the fact it's very doubtful that the whole process of observing Ballot results, deciding Bayonetta, envisioning and deciding her Smash design, negotiating and completing the licensing, and starting development on her could occur within two weeks. Factor that in how version 1.0.6 would be older than its actual release date so the actual time to do that would be very small if it existed at all, and it's just nonsensical for Bayonetta to have been chosen from very initial Ballot results.
I wondered at what point the extra ZSS and Ike based slots were finalized? Mewtwo was first released in April 15 2015, but we already know from April 1st, through his trailer in that direct, that he was finished before the Ballot was officially announced.
 

EchoAegis

Need time to think?
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
243
Another thought I just had.

Nothing in the original ballot from what I can find said that the #1 character would get in. It was more about suggesting characters. So it's very possible Sakurai planned DLC Bayonetta & Cloud then through the results connected Cloud to Final Fantasy requests and Bayonetta to her success in Europe & America.

More I look into it it really becomes a perspective thing. (Well...really the perspective of my number one got into Smash so I could care less about the ballot. I realize my bias).

That's literally what I'm thinking too lol had to point out. I'm sure there will be 1 3rd party newcomer, maybe another or maybe someone like Ashley/Chorus Kids I don't know so yeah I'd say 1 & 1/2 lol.
While they didn't state that you would expect that the winner of the ballot would you know be added in. (Of realistic choices)
 
Last edited:

Murlough

Euphoria
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
2,708
Location
Tennessee
NNID
Murl0ugh
3DS FC
4828-8253-7746
First rule of online forums: Always cite sources. Or else we wont know what the hell you're talking about.

I also think this is actually a bigger deal than you are making it out to be. It was a little bit more than a white lie. They made a big deal out of the ballot and a lot of people took time and energy to campaign their characters. everyone that submitted a request had hopes for their character and took time to follow the news to see their outcome. To find out that that was all a sham really hurts the relationship between the audience with the developer. And it can become damning. For example Star Wars Ep 7 set up its audience to spend time and speculate for the future reveals of Ep 8. When all the plot points were revealed to be "We don't actually care" it essentially broke the momentum of the franchise. What Sakurai did was similar and can have the same effect. Especially if he doesn't follow up in Ultimate.

TLDR: Post your sources and people are a little justified on their whining.
Cite my sources? The hell are you on about? You mean Fatchu? Look at his post history you are on the site wtf?

The ballot isn't a sham. They are using it later than they originally said they would...I'm done with this discussion. This is a waste of my time and energy to be honest. I'm gonna go enjoy fireworks with my family. You have fun with...being upset about getting more characters you asked for. *thumbs up*

I'm wondering if any of you got promised a McDonald's trip as a primary school kid only for your parents to drive you to Disneyland and go "You'll speak to my lawyers, this is misleading"
Best thing I've read today. Don't ever change.:laugh:
 
Last edited:

Zippo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
326
As crazy as it sounds, i'm with the Japan Time crew on this one. I 100% don't believe Bayonetta won that ballot. I think the ballot was truly only for Ultimate from the start, and putting in a fan favorite like Bayonetta was a front so folks could feel like their votes (at the time) mattered. We now know that Sakurai had been wanting to do this since as early as 2015, and he was already getting things together for the next game while Smash Wii U/3DS was getting DLC, the project plan was done before Cloud was even out. I'm totally in agreement that we're about to see some popular ballot choices make it in. E3 was very veteran focused, and I think, going forward, it'll be all about the newcomers.

Call me a crazy person, but I think #KROCTHEVOTE and #Geno4Smash are finally about to pay off.
 
Last edited:

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
I'm wondering if any of you got promised a McDonald's trip as a primary school kid only for your parents to drive you to Disneyland and go "You'll speak to my lawyers, this is misleading"
Not only that, but it turns out there's a McDonald's at Disneyland anyway (hypothetically, speaking, I don't know if there is a McDonald's at any Disney Theme Park)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom