Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Murlough]

Nintendo isn’t perfect.

I feel like if Ubisoft or EA pulled something similar to the ballot they’d get crucified by everyone. Nintendo is getting off kinda easy, they aren’t getting as much backlash as everyone in here thought they would.

Because EA has a history of being a terrible vompany that actively takes advantage of its consumers.

Nintendo, and Sakurai, do not. There is no reason to act like Sakurai is getting off easy. This whole overreaction is so ****ing petty and stupid!

It's like your girlfriend said she'd buy you a motorcycle and then she went and bought you a car. Some of the people here would apparently break up with her over buying them a car, because she saaaaid she would get them a motorcycle. (This is a godawful comparison I know but logic is exactly the same. Also just used "girlfriend" because I happen to be a straight male and vehicles because...it was the first thing to come to my head. Feel free to replace those words with things that would apply to you.)

I'm just here like, what the **** is wrong with ya'll.

Bottom line is Sakurai does countless good things but lied once. "LETS GET THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!"

 

[Deleted member]

True as that might be, I don't think people would really take issue omitting that cameo. Plus without Lucario the DS section would look even sadder. Funny given how prolific it was.

You really shined me the truth there, good advanced decision.

If we're getting a retro character again, my hope is Miria from The Guardian Legend. She's a hot robot girl who transforms into a spaceship from an NES game that isnt unknown but is still slept on more than deserved.

I never even heard about who she is until you told me.

 

[Impa4Smash]

In general (unless you’re only talking about the OoT/MM timeline of Zelda)

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures Zelda might actually be the same. The latter game is one of the few Zeldas I've never played

 

[KMDP]

Okay, question.

Who's better known, Crash Bandicoot or Rayman? Additionally, who's more popular?

I have the totally non-biased opinion that it's Crash on both fronts, so I want others' opinions.

 

[Octorockandroll]

I never even heard about who she is until you told me.

That's why she needs the rep.

 

[Roberto zampari]

If Nintendo listens the fanbase, then why Bomberman was included as an Assist Trophy instead of a Fighter?

Also, Miis are the most pointless fighters ever...
Nothing relevant.

Do you think that in the future, would be something like the Live Action called THERE WILL BE BRAWL ?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Honestly, I'd feel that instead of wasting resources making custom moves, they really just outta make the moves good to begin with so we don't have moves that are recommended to never be used like Warlock Punch or any of those long horizontal charging moves.

If you were to check the attack script data that each fighter has in Smash 3DS / Wii U, most custom special moves reuse the same animations, but different properties are implemented, which even includes attack effects.

So for an attack like Donkey Kong's Headbutt, it's less difficult to set up a variant that grants super armor, but has more start-up lag, since Stubborn Headbutt uses the exact same animations as Headbutt.

There's also the amiibo dilemma, since one of the features in Smash 3DS / Wii U included customizing your amiibo fighter with equipment and custom special moves.

 

[Impa4Smash]

If Nintendo listens the fanbase, then why Bomberman was included as an Assist Trophy instead of a Fighter?

Also, Miis are the most pointless fighters ever...
Nothing relevant.

Do you think that in the future, would be something like the Live Action called THERE WILL BE BRAWL ?

You can't include everyone. Even if you don't like them - Ridley, Daisy, and Inklings are all very popular. And we don't even know who else they've added

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, question.

Who's better known, Crash Bandicoot or Rayman? Additionally, who's more popular?

I have the totally non-biased opinion that it's Crash on both fronts, so I want others' opinions.

I'd say Crash, his franchise performed better than Rayman's iirc. Though if you include Rabbids idk

 

[Impa4Smash]

Okay, question.

Who's better known, Crash Bandicoot or Rayman? Additionally, who's more popular?

I have the totally non-biased opinion that it's Crash on both fronts, so I want others' opinions.

As a huge Rayman supporter and fan. Probably Crash

 

[Idon]

Okay, question.

Who's better known, Crash Bandicoot or Rayman? Additionally, who's more popular?

I have the totally non-biased opinion that it's Crash on both fronts, so I want others' opinions.

I've had more fun with Rayman in Origins and Legends than I've ever had with Crash's games so I'll go for him.

 

[Zerp]

Because EA has a history of being a terrible vompany that actively takes advantage of its consumers.

Nintendo, and Sakurai, do not. There is no reason to act like Sakurai is getting off easy. This whole overreaction is so ****ing petty and stupid!

It's like your girlfriend said she'd buy you a motorcycle and then she went and bought you a car. Some of the people here would apparently break up with her over buying them a car, because she saaaaid she would get them a motorcycle. (This is a godawful comparison I know but logic is exactly the same. Also just used "girlfriend" because I happen to be a straight male and vehicles because...it was the first thing to come to my head. Feel free to replace those words with things that would apply to you.)

I'm just here like, what the **** is wrong with ya'll.

Bottom line is Sakurai does countless good things but lied once. "LETS GET THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!"

Okay really, where's all this apparent hate being directed towards Sakurai from this ballot thing coming from? I haven't seen anything close to outrage except for like one gamefaqs post, yet I've seen a lot of people defending it and talking about this supposed massive outrage, is there really any sizable outrage going on?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Okay, question.

Who's better known, Crash Bandicoot or Rayman? Additionally, who's more popular?

I have the totally non-biased opinion that it's Crash on both fronts, so I want others' opinions.

I've heard of Crash before. The first time I ever heard 'Rayman' though was the trophy announcement in Sm4sh.

 

[Murlough]

Okay really, where's all this apparent hate being directed towards Sakurai from this ballot thing coming from? I haven't seen anything close to outrage except for like one gamefaqs post, yet I've seen a lot of people defending it and talking about this supposed massive outrage, is there really any sizable outrage going on?

"Lets sue Sakurai" for starters...

 

[Deleted member]

Also, Miis are the most pointless fighters ever...

Hooh boy! You are completely wrong here in my opinion.

The Miis are really popular and are practically Nintendo icons.

The Miis also allow me to make my fighters that I want.

I love the Miis, and I am glad they are here.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay really, where's all this apparent hate being directed towards Sakurai from this ballot thing coming from? I haven't seen anything close to outrage except for like one gamefaqs post, yet I've seen a lot of people defending it and talking about this supposed massive outrage, is there really any sizable outrage going on?

You know all those people who complained about Bayonetta getting in before their favourites? That but multiplied. Also we live in a day and age where people send death threats to journalists for reporting on a video game being delayed, meaning it's an unfortunate reality that this happened

 

[KMDP]

If Nintendo listens the fanbase, then why Bomberman was included as an Assist Trophy instead of a Fighter?

I've said this before and I say it again: In Bomberman's base (more well known) games, Bomberman's moveset is incredibly shallow. At the very basic level, he drops bombs that explode in a + shape, and sometimes kicks them to shake things up. This isn't good for an interesting player character, but makes for a very good assist trophy. Being an Assist Trophy allows Bomberman to accurately represent his core game series.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Did anyone ever stop to consider that maybe the newcomer slot for Smash 4 DLC was added via the 2 prior weeks results? Y'know before the patch was out? Like if you say that 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to come to a good conclusion for a popular character you're objectively wrong. The first 2 weeks of the ballot was the time frame that the ballot got THE MOST attention. Is it such a surprise to say that maybe, just maybe, only those 2 weeks were taken into consideration for Smash 4 DLC while the rest was for deciding who would make Ultimate's cut? Or do we all have such a tunnel vision of rage that we get upset at stuff and call it a fraud even when we don't have the whole picture?

Seriously guys, let it go. They had no reason to lie to us and I highly doubt they lied at all. It's just a matter of circumstance to see who could've got in with the time frame they were give. Bayonetta could've been high up on requests and was still realizable (again, "Among Realizable Characters" is vague and can mean almost anything.) In the time frame given for Smash DLC. Those 2 weeks was plenty of time to gauge interest in a character who is also realizable. No one lied to us. It's not that deep. The Ballot wasn't a "fraud".

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It would be a massive waste of time if every character has customs because almost nobody cares about them.
The DLC Smash 4 characters lack customs for a reason.

It's always possible that they'll have custom special moves this time.

Anyway, this may be debatable, but Smash Ultimate probably won't feel so ultimate if it lacks the customization features that Smash 3DS / Wii U offered. And the best way to make custom specials more viable for competitive play would be to have them available right off the bat.

 

[DraginHikari]

You know all those people who complained about Bayonetta getting in before their favourites? That but multiplied. Also we live in a day and age where people send death threats to journalists for reporting on a video game being delayed, meaning it's an unfortunate reality that this happened

Death threats have become too far common, it's like people have forgotten how to act like people when they get online and see something they don't like lol.

 

[KMDP]

I've had more fun with Rayman in Origins and Legends than I've ever had with Crash's games so I'll go for him.

*air raid siren*
Personal opinion alert! I didn't ask how fun they were to play. I asked how well known/popular they were.

Good on you though for being the dissenting opinion.

 

[Zerp]

"Lets sue Sakurai" for starters...

Who's saying that though? Nobody? All I've seen (and asked) were questions wondering if it would have been possible, I haven't seen anyone actually gearing up to sue Sakurai.

You know all those people who complained about Bayonetta getting in before their favourites? That but multiplied. Also we live in a day and age where people send death threats to journalists for reporting on a video game being delayed, meaning it's an unfortunate reality that this happened

What a unfortunate reality, I can believe that but still, I haven't actually seen anything. Are they all on Gamefaqs or something? Even 4chan seems relatively tame about this from what I can gather, they post the information but nobody's raging or anything.

 

[Ignoritus]

Like if you say that 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to come to a good conclusion for a popular character you're objectively wrong.

This argument would hold a lot more ground if the character they decided on wasn't a third party character that they had to first secure the rights to. You don't poll requests, analyze results, make a character plan and have it accepted by all involved and then negotiate rights with a third party company in two weeks.

 

[Idon]

I've said this before and I say it again: In Bomberman's base (more well known) games, Bomberman's moveset is incredibly shallow. At the very basic level, he drops bombs that explode in a + shape, and sometimes kicks them to shake things up. This isn't good for an interesting player character, but makes for a very good assist trophy. Being an Assist Trophy allows Bomberman to accurately represent his core game series.

I'm going to say that Sakurai has had less to work with and done just as much. For example Pac-Man's most popular incarnation doesn't even do anything outside of eating yellow circles and blue ghosts. That sounds like assist-trophy material just as much as many other things.

Plus, Bomberman has plenty of 3d games to draw combat from and from the Bomberman's support page, people have general ideas of what they want Bomberman can do.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Okay really, where's all this apparent hate being directed towards Sakurai from this ballot thing coming from? I haven't seen anything close to outrage except for like one gamefaqs post, yet I've seen a lot of people defending it and talking about this supposed massive outrage, is there really any sizable outrage going on?

I mean look at all the people saying they commited "scummy practices" or that they are just another "scummy company" or how they should be "punished for cheating." Even if I wouldn't call it outrage, it is still overreacting I feel.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Did anyone ever stop to consider that maybe the newcomer slot for Smash 4 DLC was added via the 2 prior weeks results? Y'know before the patch was out? Like if you say that 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to come to a good conclusion for a popular character you're objectively wrong. The first 2 weeks of the ballot was the time frame that the ballot got THE MOST attention. Is it such a surprise to say that maybe, just maybe, only those 2 weeks were taken into consideration for Smash 4 DLC while the rest was for deciding who would make Ultimate's cut? Or do we all have such a tunnel vision of rage that we get upset at stuff and call it a fraud even when we don't have the whole picture?

Seriously guys, let it go. They had no reason to lie to us and I highly doubt they lied at all. It's just a matter of circumstance to see who could've got in with the time frame they were give. Bayonetta could've been high up on requests and was still realizable (again, "Among Realizable Characters" is vague and can mean almost anything.) In the time frame given for Smash DLC. Those 2 weeks was plenty of time to gauge interest in a character who is also realizable. No one lied to us. It's not that deep. The Ballot wasn't a "fraud".

This argument would hold a lot more ground if the character they decided on wasn't a third party character that they had to first secure the rights to. You don't poll requests, analyze results, make a character plan and have it accepted by all involved and then negotiate rights with a third party company in two weeks.

So I was gunna say the first post until I thought second post.

Now Bayonetta might have been easy, already working with Sega and she was practically a Nintendo exclusive at the time. But then there's Cloud.

I'm not gunna pretend I know anything about the legality of securing character rights and, no offense to anyone here, I'm not gunna take the thoughts of anonymous forum members as facts and experience. So who knows if it's possible but it at least seems unlikely.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm of the mind that only Mii fighters will get custom moves, if at all.

Custom moves and equpment could very well be in the game but it was enough of a nightmare unlocking it all last time.
Have they found the madman who thought duplicate custom specials was a good idea yet? They didn't even have the EA excuse of helping revenue.

 

[KMDP]

I'm going to say that Sakurai has had less to work with and done just as much. For example Pac-Man's most popular incarnation doesn't even do anything outside of eating yellow circles and blue ghosts. That sounds like assist-trophy material just as much as many other things.

Plus, Bomberman has plenty of 3d games to draw combat from and from the Bomberman's support page, people have general ideas of what they want Bomberman can do.

Good point! I guess it depends on how well known those 3D Bomberman games are (especially in Japan). Or maybe Konami had a hand in it... who knows.

 

[Impa4Smash]

The ballot was supposed to include the most popular character. It probably didn't. But we're probably getting him in this game. As well as another 5-9 of the most requested characters, in addition to every character in Smash ever.

Rough life.

 

[EchoAegis]

I'm of the mind that only Mii fighters will get custom moves, if at all.

Custom moves and equpment could very well be in the game but it was enough of a nightmare unlocking it all last time.
Have they found the madman who thought duplicate custom specials was a good idea yet? They didn't even have the EA excuse of helping revenue.

If Smash Run returns I could defiantly see equipment coming back

 

[Murlough]

Who's saying that though? Nobody? All I've seen (and asked) were questions wondering if it would have been possible, I haven't seen anyone actually gearing up to sue Sakurai.

Yes, nobody. I'm literally just ranting at thin air. I'm known for that I guess. I get real excited at work thinking about all the nonsense I can make up to rant about in here, later. Gets me through those long hours, you know?

Fatchu or whatever, I don't remember his actual name. He started the whole thing and a few people acted like he had legitimate ground to stand on.

The people acting like Sakrai walked up to them and gave them a smack are still pretty obnoxious too but its the legal stuff that really grinded my gears.

At this point, I wish someone would make a seperate thread for their *****ing and moaning so we can get back to speculating about the new game as opposed to throwing hissy fits about a little white lie happening last game.

 

[Zerp]

Did anyone ever stop to consider that maybe the newcomer slot for Smash 4 DLC was added via the 2 prior weeks results? Y'know before the patch was out? Like if you say that 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to come to a good conclusion for a popular character you're objectively wrong. The first 2 weeks of the ballot was the time frame that the ballot got THE MOST attention. Is it such a surprise to say that maybe, just maybe, only those 2 weeks were taken into consideration for Smash 4 DLC while the rest was for deciding who would make Ultimate's cut? Or do we all have such a tunnel vision of rage that we get upset at stuff and call it a fraud even when we don't have the whole picture?

Seriously guys, let it go. They had no reason to lie to us and I highly doubt they lied at all. It's just a matter of circumstance to see who could've got in with the time frame they were give. Bayonetta could've been high up on requests and was still realizable (again, "Among Realizable Characters" is vague and can mean almost anything.) In the time frame given for Smash DLC. Those 2 weeks was plenty of time to gauge interest in a character who is also realizable. No one lied to us. It's not that deep. The Ballot wasn't a "fraud".

It kind of is a fraud though, or at least the way it was presented to us was. I voted after the two week period and I was convinced that my vote would you know, count for Smash 4's DLC. I'm not upset that I lost, but that they kind of misdirected us, they should have closed it within two weeks if they were only going to use the two weeks, or be more transparent about it. I'm not "raging" about it though.

Also, this doesn't prove anything but I think it's notable: https://mynintendonews.com/2012/05/...-sakurai-caught-sneaking-into-platinum-games/
Sakurai went to Platinum games before the ballot was a thing, and this could mean Bayonetta was planned BEFORE the ballot if he was say, trying to get the rights to her or something while he was there. Because of that I kind of doubt they even just did the whole 2 weeks thing, feels more like it just happened to be when they added the inevitable placeholders than them waiting to see results, but I could be wrong lol.

I mean look at all the people saying they commited "scummy practices" or that they are just another "scummy company" or how they should be "punished for cheating." Even if I wouldn't call it outrage, it is still overreacting I feel.

So is it literally just me then? I'm the only one I've seen here saying it's scummy. I don't think that's overreacting though, more of just a statement of what I think about the whole morality of the situation, I'm not delusional enough to think they're the only company to do this, everyone does this unfortunately, I just think the way this was all presented was immoral lol.

 

[Makai Wars]

Okay, question.

Who's better known, Crash Bandicoot or Rayman? Additionally, who's more popular?

I have the totally non-biased opinion that it's Crash on both fronts, so I want others' opinions.

Between the two, probably Crash. Both Rayman and Crash have spent the majority of their existence being irrelevent however. Crash fell off the planet after the PS1 Era and Rayman was thrown out in favor of Rabbids for like? A decade.

Both characters have seen a revival in recent years but I wouldn't consider either of them a likely Smash candidate in the slightest.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures Zelda might actually be the same. The latter game is one of the few Zeldas I've never played

Probably. It’s always hard to keep track on the Zelda series and their timelines

 

[papagenos]

2112 the year of mach rider, mach rider confirmed

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Did anyone ever stop to consider that maybe the newcomer slot for Smash 4 DLC was added via the 2 prior weeks results? Y'know before the patch was out? Like if you say that 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to come to a good conclusion for a popular character you're objectively wrong. The first 2 weeks of the ballot was the time frame that the ballot got THE MOST attention. Is it such a surprise to say that maybe, just maybe, only those 2 weeks were taken into consideration for Smash 4 DLC while the rest was for deciding who would make Ultimate's cut? Or do we all have such a tunnel vision of rage that we get upset at stuff and call it a fraud even when we don't have the whole picture?

Seriously guys, let it go. They had no reason to lie to us and I highly doubt they lied at all. It's just a matter of circumstance to see who could've got in with the time frame they were give. Bayonetta could've been high up on requests and was still realizable (again, "Among Realizable Characters" is vague and can mean almost anything.) In the time frame given for Smash DLC. Those 2 weeks was plenty of time to gauge interest in a character who is also realizable. No one lied to us. It's not that deep. The Ballot wasn't a "fraud".

This has been brought up several times here, and it doesn't make any sense. First version 1.0.6 would have had its data set well before it went live, it's probable what was version 1.0.6 was set before the two weeks; they weren't editing it and adding data up to the very last minute before it going live, they have to balance test their changes and make sure everything is ready and stable then plan out when to release it. The patches themselves are uploaded to Nintendo's servers several days in advance, and have repeatedly been downloaded and datamined for their changes in advance of their actual release (or even had their new content played with early, as in the case of Roy and Ryu). Then there's the fact it's very doubtful that the whole process of observing Ballot results, deciding Bayonetta, envisioning and deciding her Smash design, negotiating and completing the licensing, and starting development on her could occur within two weeks. Factor that in how version 1.0.6 would be older than its actual release date so the actual time to do that would be very small if it existed at all, and it's just nonsensical for Bayonetta to have been chosen from very initial Ballot results.

 

[Blargg888]

I stand by my claim about custom moves. Regardless of whether they return as a standard mechanic or not, Miis should keep theirs.

The custom moves are a pretty integral part of the Mii's characterization in Smash, and they just wouldn't be as drawing without them.

Also, Miis are the most pointless fighters ever...
Nothing relevant.

Okay, look.

It's fine if you don't like them, but nobody can say that they're pointless or irrelevant.

Miis were a prominent and defining feature of the Wii, being featured in many different games, and even getting som of their own "games" like the Wii Sports and Wii Party series.

Miis' identities as custom avatars is something that is very unique to them in Smash. The height differences, customizable appearances, and movesets can make them fit to any archetype or playstyle desired by the player. This is supported greatly by their class system.

Furthermore, one of the points was blatantly laid out in the E3 direct that they were revealed in. "You can fight, anyone can fight!"

The whole purpose of Miis is that you can insert various people or characters into the game via the Mii Fighters. The Mii Fighters served as a way allow people to play as themselves, their friends, or others. They're a great addition to the Smash roster that bring a lot to the table.

Even if not everybody is capable of seeing it that way, that doesn't mean that it's meaningless. Personally, Miis brought a great amount of joy for me from both the coolness and the silliness of the whole concept itself, and I know that I'm not the only one who thinks this.

To reiterate a previous point I made, watching people constantly **** on your favorite character for no real reason is suffering. It's not needed, wanted, appreciated, or even necessary. They're in the game, and that's final.

TL;DR: Miis have:
1. Importance and Relevancy
2. Unique and Fun Movesets
3. Unique Mechanic of complete moveset, attribute, and cosmetic Customizability
4. Ability to be almost any Person or character.
5. Enough hate as it is.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I hope Shadows render (if hes in) is based off my fav official art

 

[KMDP]

Probably. It’s always hard to keep track on the Zelda series and their timelines

As someone who has played both, Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures are not the same thing.

Four Swords Adventures has a more in depth plot, but even then they aren't the same plot.

 

[SonicMario]

Good point! I guess it depends on how well known those 3D Bomberman games are (especially in Japan). Or maybe Konami had a hand in it... who knows.

I think it's certainly possible it's more about space for other Konami characters. Snake was wanted back dearly with cited popular demand said by Sakurai. And of course there's a certain vampire-killing whip user heavily rumored that may still get in the game eventually (Whether that's in the base game or perhaps saved for later may be a debate on it's own. I could see Konami want to get a share of that DLC money instead of just having both of their characters in the game straightaway. Hey at least they'd be getting some greedy money from something that many would actually like rather then their pachinko machines that have led them to their bad reputation though I would prefer Simon already being in the game from the start)

Bomberman unfortunately just isn't one of Konami's original babies, so Konami simply may just not have favored him as much as Snake/Metal Gear and possibly anything from Castlevania. He was Hudson Soft's property until Konami bought Hudson. A shame really, if Smash had been open to 3rd parties as it is now back when Brawl was up, Bomberman would surely have gotten a great chance at it.