Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

About Bayonetta's guns and gun heels being on display.

It came to my attention that really she's asides from Cloud the easiest third party to display with an ''iconic" or memorable weapon they use.

She has her guns/gun heels.

Cloud has the Buster Sword.

I suppose the Buster Cannon would be iconic for Mega Man.

But what do you give Ryu, Sonic, and Pac Man?

 

[JamesDNaux]

But what do you give Ryu, Sonic, and Pac Man?

Headband/gloves, shoes, cherries and dots.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Let's hope "this"... is a Bandana Waddle Dee confirmation coming through xD

Doesn't ring like Smash-related reveal to me, if going by the emphasis to "white stars" seen in the picture.

But we can... dream.

*Spear Barrage'd*

 

[Pazzo.]

Waddle Dee is one of those sleeper characters that really could get added.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Bit off-topic and rather very controversial opinion to share now - but just saw the trailer for Mighty and Ray returning back to Sonic Mania Plus today, and it was absolutely amazing.

Spoiler: Spoilers for the trailer

Goshers, I think after having to deal with rather off-the-walls and "memetic" reveals back in Smash 4-days that sometimes threw some of my wanted characters to 'trash bin' of memetic reception and portrayal, seeing Mighty's return treated with such heartwarming tone from animators has made me more happier than most of Smash Bros 4's reveal trailers I had seen by this point. I mean yeah,

I guess this is because I hadn't got much characters I had been looking forward to, but when someone like was given ton of hate from the Western Smash+FE fanbase cmpared to and it's immensely heartwarming welcome, I think I lost my connecttion with the rest of the fanbase. Yet in Sonic-fandom, Mighty's and Ray's isn't being thrown shade on due how this didn't we hadn't got get Amy in (for now.)


It's tad bumming since I'm rather sure Smash Switch and it's character reveals won't be able to deliver similar vein to me , depending on if I'll be having similar case of not getting any chars I've been waiting for along with deconfirmed ones becoming memetic losers at best.

I just wish there was more goodwill nature in these kinda reveal things as a whole - because I'll prefer Knuckles and Mighty being bros anyday on the final image over anything "ridiculing" jokes over deconfirmed characters overall in Smash Bros-games in general. (I.E Ridley, Chrom, Waluigi.) - and fandom's perception on whether some particular returning characters (or newcomers) have to be given a toxic exception of being treated like garbage for returning, much to dismay of the fans awaiting them for years.

 

[Pazzo.]

I think the Robin/Chrom thing was 90% on the side of the fans, they showed Chrom "getting his chance" in the trailer as an awesome Final Smash.

We just made it a meme because the Robin fanbase was pretty much hopeless by that point.

 

[Phaazoid]

I remember everyone clamoring for the codes, since the demo originally wasn't given out to everybody on the eShop.

Also nobody ever closing the game because you had a limited number of uses on 3DS demos (such an awful system IMHO.) I really do hope the Switch has a demo that isn't limited timed or limited use, it would be a great way to get a feel for how the game (and items/characters/stages) they choose play before release.

I actually still have the demo on my 3DS lol.

I also may have imported a japanese 3DS to play Sm4sh early...

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I think the Robin/Chrom thing was 90% on the side of the fans, they showed Chrom "getting his chance" in the trailer as an awesome Final Smash.

We just made it a meme because the Robin fanbase was pretty much hopeless by that point.

I don't know man, Chrom got a pretty bad deal Kind of mocked in the reveal trailer, then further teased during a Palutena's Guidance bit. Could see why fans of his were a little bummed.

 

[Pazzo.]

I don't know man, Chrom got a pretty bad deal Kind of mocked in the reveal trailer, then further teased during a Palutena's Guidance bit. Could see why fans of his were a little bummed.

I actually forgot about the Palutena bit, lol.

Well, we can't win them all.

 

[TheMagic1]

So I was bored today and decided to go on For Fun, and I found this really salty link player who tried to target me. He kept on failing until one match where it was sudden death and I threw a taunt out by mistake and he got me with an arrow. After that, he went on about how I got janked and how I suck at smash or whatever, and then he just left. I pray to God that Sakurai improves the report system so that players like these actually get banned. Do you guys have any ideas as to how to improve the trash report system we have now?

 

[Jubileus57]

Doesn't ring like Smash-related reveal to me, if going by the emphasis to "white stars" seen in the picture.

But we can... dream.

*Spear Barrage'd*

I know it is a little farfetched. But it STILL does mean something of utmost importance:

MOAR KIRBY

The very thing the world needs (well, that and smash news) :D Be it a new game, a new remake, new dreams friends, it doesn't matter wwhich one it is.

I'd hope (pipe dream) that its a new game that will explore even, more of the Kirby lore (which truth be told is the second best in gaming IMO, second only to the Fallen London - Sunless Sea - Sunless Skies trilogy).

 

[NintendoKnight]

i can't even begin to explain how bad an idea that is. people would lose their minds if this was a thing.

Begin to explain then, otherwise you have no argument, and thus no point in making this remark.

So, I strongly disagree. And I really doubt that many people would lose their minds over completing a simple challenge to unlock a character.

If people no longer have even the slightest ounce of patience necessary to unlock characters, that's not my problem. More game content, an additional challenge that rewards a character, and something that is actually worth the price of admission.

 

[TheTrueHer0]

To improve it there could be 2 ways
The easy way: make it so you need x amount of reports to go into for glory hell
The hard way: having people have to give reasons for bans and have people moderate it

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Bit off-topic and rather very controversial opinion to share now - but just saw the trailer for Mighty and Ray returning back to Sonic Mania Plus today, and it was absolutely amazing.

Spoiler: Spoilers for the trailer

Goshers, I think after having to deal with rather off-the-walls and "memetic" reveals back in Smash 4-days that sometimes threw some of my wanted characters to 'trash bin' of memetic reception and portrayal, seeing Mighty's return treated with such heartwarming tone from animators has made me more happier than most of Smash Bros 4's reveal trailers I had seen by this point. I mean yeah,

I guess this is because I hadn't got much characters I had been looking forward to, but when someone like was given ton of hate from the Western Smash+FE fanbase cmpared to and it's immensely heartwarming welcome, I think I lost my connecttion with the rest of the fanbase. Yet in Sonic-fandom, Mighty's and Ray's isn't being thrown shade on due how this didn't we hadn't got get Amy in (for now.)


It's tad bumming since I'm rather sure Smash Switch and it's character reveals won't be able to deliver similar vein to me , depending on if I'll be having similar case of not getting any chars I've been waiting for along with deconfirmed ones becoming memetic losers at best.

I just wish there was more goodwill nature in these kinda reveal things as a whole - because I'll prefer Knuckles and Mighty being bros anyday on the final image over anything "ridiculing" jokes over deconfirmed characters overall in Smash Bros-games in general. (I.E Ridley, Chrom, Waluigi.) - and fandom's perception on whether some particular returning characters (or newcomers) have to be given a toxic exception of being treated like garbage for returning, much to dismay of the fans awaiting them for years.

He....he...HE CAME BACK! **** YES!!!

I think the Robin/Chrom thing was 90% on the side of the fans, they showed Chrom "getting his chance" in the trailer as an awesome Final Smash.

We just made it a meme because the Robin fanbase was pretty much hopeless by that point.

I disliked Chrom, so for him to be tossed aside like that for Lucina and Robin was hilarious

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Begin to explain then, otherwise you have no argument, and thus no point in making this remark.

So, I strongly disagree. And I really doubt that many people would lose their minds over completing a simple challenge to unlock a character.

If people no longer have even the slightest ounce of patience necessary to unlock characters, that's not my problem. More game content, an additional challenge that rewards a character, and something that is actually worth the price of admission.

While I agree it would be a simple challenge and not a big deal, it does make me think "What's the point?" Seems like making an unlockable character for the sake of an unlockable character. I don't see how having to vs. the character in a match first would make me enjoy them anymore.

I am starting to think that the only consensus this unlock debate could come to is something along the lines of an option to unlock all characters from the start when you boot up the game. Works for me.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

In the event a direct was to be announced today? What time do they usually announce such things anyways?

Is it when Japan wakes up or do some of the other countries jump the gun and say ''Hey Direct!" Because it'd seem like when Japan is going into the office. The rest of the countries are heading home.

 

[Pazzo.]

I disliked Chrom, so for him to be tossed aside like that for Lucina and Robin was hilarious

And I think there's an appropriate way to dislike characters without dislike fans, do you see what I'm doing here I'm trying to prevent another one of these things frombreakingout-

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think the Robin/Chrom thing was 90% on the side of the fans, they showed Chrom "getting his chance" in the trailer as an awesome Final Smash.

That thing about how awesome him getting to be an Final Smash got shot down hard when Palutena and Viridi ridiculed him on top of being an Ike-clone. (Ironically enough, the FS itself is a copy of Ike's more or less) . And this kind of 'treatment' still exists within the actual game. It is not just a fan-thing anymore - it's actually more or less enforced by the game for some reason.

I have said it many times before in the past, if they didn't do ridiculing on him and such in the first place, I would have taken in his role in the game with much more warmer hands. But even today, his ridiculing has gone on games like Project X Zone 2, which has had me realize sadly how much deep these kind of portrayals for characters can seep to their future appearances. I wish Smash Bros wouldn't use it's sheer influence to ruin characters like that ever again, at least this straightforwardly. But I'm asking impossibility here, knowing Sakurai's loved sense of humour.

Depending on if the Guidance lines and premise for Robin's own with that whole ridiculing was even pre-determined long before reveal trailer itself, it was still Sakurai's choice to paint Chrom's inclusion in a mocking light, for some reason. I personally resent that kind of thing to just about anything regarding things like this, and seeing it happen to one of my wanted FE-newcomers was quite a kick in the teeth on me as a long-time Smash-fan.

Since then it hasn't made me very open on enjoying characters as I see many do here - and not exactly feel as hyped on Smash after what I've gone through during Smash 4's pre-and-post speculation days - including DLC with how Roy was more hated than welcome by Western fanbases.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

In the event a direct was to be announced today? What time do they usually announce such things anyways?

Is it when Japan wakes up or do some of the other countries jump the gun and say ''Hey Direct!" Because it'd seem like when Japan is going into the office. The rest of the countries are heading home.

I asked this the other day and got no reply. I think I generally remember seeing them in the late morning early afternoon EST (so like now at the latest). I'm not sure how that works with Japan though seeing as it is the middle of the night for them.

 

[TheMagic1]

To improve it there could be 2 ways
The easy way: make it so you need x amount of reports to go into for glory hell
The hard way: having people have to give reasons for bans and have people moderate it

FG hell should be gone, no one should have to be put there. Having moderators online would definitely help.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

And I think there's an appropriate way to dislike characters without dislike fans, do you see what I'm doing here I'm trying to prevent another one of these things frombreakingout-

I'll take my chances here knowing what I'm up against


So should there be a pack for DLC stages? Like heavily requested stages being made and turn to DLC? I don't mind seeing returning stages and 1-3 new ones

 

[Pazzo.]

That thing about how awesome him getting to be an Final Smash got shot down hard when Palutena and Viridi ridiculed him on top of being an Ike-clone. (Ironically enough, the FS itself is a copy of Ike's more or less) . And this kind of 'treatment' still exists within the actual game. It is not just a fan-thing anymore - it's actually more or less enforced by the game for some reason.

I have said it many times before in the past, if they didn't do ridiculing on him and such in the first place, I would have taken in his role in the game with much more warmer hands. But even today, his ridiculing has gone on games like Project X Zone 2, which has had me realize sadly how much deep these kind of portrayals for characters can seep to their future appearances. I wish Smash Bros wouldn't use it's sheer influence to ruin characters like that ever again, at least this straightforwardly. But I'm asking impossibility here, knowing Sakurai's loved sense of humour.

Depending on if the Guidance lines and premise for Robin's own with that whole ridiculing was even pre-determined long before reveal trailer itself, it was still Sakurai's choice to paint Chrom's inclusion in a mocking light, for some reason. I personally resent that kind of thing to just about anything regarding things like this, and seeing it happen to one of my wanted FE-newcomers was quite a kick in the teeth on me as a long-time Smash-fan.

Since then it hasn't made me very open on enjoying characters as I see many do here - and not exactly feel as hyped on Smash after what I've gone through during Smash 4's pre-and-post speculation days - including DLC with how Roy was more hated than welcome by Western fanbases.

Well that's too bad. I have a very "screw the haters/damn the torpedoes attitude, but I can understand how it'd be less exciting.

How's the "barracks" btw?

 

[MrReyes96]

Palutena and Viridi making fun of Chrom was hilarious
His case is a weird one where normally he’d be the clear newcomer but many people (including Sakurai) saw the potential in adding the avatar character instead. I think he’s fine in his role, maybe he should be also added an an assist trophy. (Replace Lyn while she becomes playable)

 

[NintendoKnight]

While I agree it would be a simple challenge and not a big deal, it does make me think "What's the point?" Seems like making an unlockable character for the sake of an unlockable character. I don't see how having to vs. the character in a match first would make me enjoy them anymore.

I am starting to think that the only consensus this unlock debate could come to is something along the lines of an option to unlock all characters from the start when you boot up the game. Works for me.

Honestly, there's no point in debating. If Sakurai wants unlockable characters, then there'll be unlockable characters and that's that.

Though I doubt he'd put in a "Unlock every character" option, but I'm not opposed to the idea. If there was any indication that they should've stopped the unlocked characters thing, it was Sm4sh.

How does Sakurai view the unlocking process now? Well, in 2015 he had a response to it:
https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-considered-having-all-fighters-unlocked-in-smash-bros-wii-u/

Honestly, I'm surprised that the DLC we've had so far didn't already come with some sort of unlocking requirement. Maybe he's mentally made an indication that both are to remain separate. We don't know the innermost workings of his mind on this matter, so it's obviously hard to tell where it's going in the future.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Well if right now is the latest, good to know we're not getting any news this month on anything major from Nintendo at all.

LOL. E3 here we come.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Palutena and Viridi making fun of Chrom was hilarious
His case is a weird one where normally he’d be the clear newcomer but many people (including Sakurai) saw the potential in adding the avatar character instead. I think he’s fine in his role, maybe he should be also added an an assist trophy. (Replace Lyn while she becomes playable)

Not sure about Chrom replacing Lyn for her traditional role as Lyn's swords style is usually a very fast slice and dice. Chrom is slower than Marth but faster than Ike from what I've picked up so he would have to do some type of heavy combo attack for an AT

Or just make him another Marth clone

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well that's too bad. I have a very "screw the haters/damn the torpedoes attitude, but I can understand how it'd be less exciting.

Well, it's really hard being a fan that doesn't necessarily feel the same way about a character like every other fan does, I guess.

How's the "barracks" btw?

Been there now and then, though I'm more off on my own places, really. It's still chill, I think.

Palutena and Viridi making fun of Chrom was hilarious
His case is a weird one where normally he’d be the clear newcomer but many people (including Sakurai) saw the potential in adding the avatar character instead. I think he’s fine in his role, maybe he should be also added an an assist trophy. (Replace Lyn while she becomes playable)

I don't think I want him playable or anything, really. I've been fine with him being a Final Smash nevertheless - but him being ridiculed about and more actually makes it actually needlessly bumming and irritating side than it should be, mainly because I'm not exactly one of the fans that tend to lampoon on Chrom and find such excessive jokes on him as hilarious. In fact, this kind of treatment on him soured me forever on them.

 

[domriver]

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/schedule/index.html

If anything those of us in the United States we MIGHT see something later today OR tomorrow latest.
Nintendo has an investor meeting on the 26th of April which I believe is today right now in Japan but guess time will tell.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Nintendo extended their trademark on Punch Out, Paper Mario, Dr. Mario, and Mario Party.

Most notable here is Dr. Mario and Punch Out. Wonder if we'll be seeing new games. And with a new Dr. Mario game it might let him keep his slot on the roster.

 

[Chron]

I'd love to have Chrom, but I want Azura(or Felicia) most. She would be the first spear Smasher and has a ton of potential with unique abilities like sing. (Would probably get censored though. )

 

[Cosmic77]

So should there be a pack for DLC stages? Like heavily requested stages being made and turn to DLC? I don't mind seeing returning stages and 1-3 new ones

Sakurai really needs a better system as to how he decides which returning stages should be added as DLC.

I appreciate the effort he took to add three different 64 stages as DLC, but did many of us really ask for them? Aside from nostalgia, there wasn't much of a reason to add them over something like Fountain of Dreams or Fourside. Honestly, Pirate Ship was the only returning stage I was actually excited for, but its announcement was random and out of place as heck.

Nintendo extended their trademark on Punch Out, Paper Mario, Dr. Mario, and Mario Party.

Most notable here is Dr. Mario and Punch Out. Wonder if we'll be seeing new games. And with a new Dr. Mario game it might let him keep his slot on the roster.

Not sure what any of this means. A little while ago, Nintendo also filed a trademark for Wario Land, and that seemed pretty out of the blue. All of these trademarks could mean anything from a new game to some type of new "Classic" console/handheld that will come with a variety of old games. Heck, it could even be for something as simple as a character costume.

Man, just what will they unveil at E3?

 

[MrReyes96]

A new Punch Out would be amazing
Guest challenger spring man?

And Doc Louis for smash please

 

[blackghost]

Begin to explain then, otherwise you have no argument, and thus no point in making this remark.

So, I strongly disagree. And I really doubt that many people would lose their minds over completing a simple challenge to unlock a character.

If people no longer have even the slightest ounce of patience necessary to unlock characters, that's not my problem. More game content, an additional challenge that rewards a character, and something that is actually worth the price of admission.

i think you are overestimating this community and people in general. there are two major reason i disagree: precedence and principle. On the principle argument, people in general do not want to have to do another task AFTER spending real money on additional content. I cannot think of a single fighting game or character based dlc that locked the content even after payment. (pokken and arms didn't lock dlc characters) People are impatient, people want what they pay for and are entitled to what they pay for.

Second argument precedence. Do you remember the competitive scene fiasco early when many people didn't know or some setups did or didn't have town and city? Tournaments were confusing and setups not complete. Given context clues of sakurai attending multiple events, hosting some as well, and the general approach of Nintendo with competitive gaming moving forward the logistics of competitive environment matter.
if you like unlocking characters and stages that fine but dlc should come out immediately accessible. I'm not going to say th eidea o funlocking characters is outdated but it is INCONVENIENT.
on a side note smash unlocking conditions have been kinda extra (mewtwo and game and watch, and sonic in brawl). none of that is as bad as android 21 but unlocking is seen by many as annoying and a chore.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What revamps do you wanna see. Do you wanna see Ganondorf get Ancient armor? Or possibly see Olimar get Rock & Winged Pikmin like in "Hey! Pikmin"?

 

[NintendoKnight]

i think you are overestimating this community and people in general. there are two major reason i disagree: precedence and principle. On the principle argument, people in general do not want to have to do another task AFTER spending real money on additional content. I cannot think of a single fighting game or character based dlc that locked the content even after payment. (pokken and arms didn't lock dlc characters) People are impatient, people want what they pay for and are entitled to what they pay for.

Second argument precedence. Do you remember the competitive scene fiasco early when many people didn't know or some setups did or didn't have town and city? Tournaments were confusing and setups not complete. Given context clues of sakurai attending multiple events, hosting some as well, and the general approach of Nintendo with competitive gaming moving forward the logistics of competitive environment matter.
if you like unlocking characters and stages that fine but dlc should come out immediately accessible. I'm not going to say th eidea o funlocking characters is outdated but it is INCONVENIENT.
on a side note smash unlocking conditions have been kinda extra (mewtwo and game and watch, and sonic in brawl). none of that is as bad as android 21 but unlocking is seen by many as annoying and a chore.

Thank you, this was the sort of response I was hoping for. It makes your point much more credible and understandable to me.

Regarding the fighting game characters that are locked even though they're DLC, you mentioned ARMS and Pokken specifically. Take note that these are actually bad examples because both of those games have FREE DLC, where nothing additional was paid for. No one is entitled to anything that's free. However, I'm not so dense as to say I didn't see the point you were trying to make.

I remember the competitive fiasco. That's what happens when you start a competitive scene too early in the game's life cycle, not everyone has everything yet. In regards to that, I did attend Paragon in Southern California (because I live not too far off) a few years back. Paragon occurred shortly after the Roy/Ruy/Lucas DLC release. The issue? Not every Sm4sh station had those three characters. People who had already mained those characters were screwed if they ended up at the wrong station.

What did this last point have to say about unlockable characters? Absolutely nothing. It just went to show that purchasing the DLC for all stations was apparently just as difficult as, if not more difficult than, unlocking all the base characters.

That being said, I don't have any real arguments against what you're saying, so most of my post is just fluff.

 

[Roberk]

A new Punch Out would be amazing
Guest challenger spring man?

And Doc Louis for smash please

That sounds great, more Arms stuff please

 

[Tree Gelbman]

How would you get Arms content to work in Punch Out without feeling nothing like itself though?

 

[Chandeelure]

What revamps do you wanna see. Do you wanna see Ganondorf get Ancient armor? Or possibly see Olimar get Rock & Winged Pikmin like in "Hey! Pikmin"?

Ganondorf with a moveset that makes sense, dark magic.
Samus with Ice attacks and Melee Counter.
Pikachu with Iron Tail.
Kirby with a moveset that is not incredibly generic and bad competitively.
Lucina being unique.
Dark Pit using other KI weapons.
Dr. Mario using viruses or something.
Lucario actually using a cool fighting style instead of just shooting blue smoke with his palms.

 

[MrReyes96]

How would you get Arms content to work in Punch Out without feeling nothing like itself though?

Same way Donkey Kong was able to fight Little Mac. I’m sure the fight would have the gimmick of spring man having attacks with long reach but you would still be able to hit him when he leaves himself open.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

What revamps do you wanna see. Do you wanna see Ganondorf get Ancient armor? Or possibly see Olimar get Rock & Winged Pikmin like in "Hey! Pikmin"?

-I would like to see Lucario lose some of his ridiculous power scaling in favor of being faster. He feels way too slow as is, especially considering he's not even a terribly slow Pokemon.
-Palutena. I think just putting her name says enough.
-Wario should have some more Warioland inspiration.
-Zelda should be reworked. I won't say guardian powers, bc I don't personally care for that idea, but she definitely needs reworked as a whole.
-Either buff Gordos or give Dedede Waddle Dees back. If Waddle Dee is playable, the Gordo buff is the ideal option.
-A revamp to the balance team. Better NOT nerf Greninja. Leave that meme in the past, please.