Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chandeelure]

Brawl music is so good...

I hope we get music as good as that this time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Guys, this thread is not the ideal place to talk about your top five most wanted Nintendo characters.

Use the other thread to talk about your top ten most wanted newcomers or something. This is Smash Speculation. I will give a link to the other thread.
https://smashboards.com/threads/top-10-most-wanted-newcomers-for-smash-switch.453658/

Now lets drop the subject and talk about something else please.

I really do think Sakurai still believes that Ridley would not be "Ridley" if he went in. I personally think Ridley is going to be a boss or some kind of stage boss in my opinion, sorry guys.

If they do manage to get him in, that would be pretty good I guess.

Aw **** there's a Ridley thread, can't talk about Ridley! See how this argument doesn't work?

I mean, the shadow stuff was kinda ridiculous, but if he doesn't appear at all, it would not be dumb to think he could be DLC.

It's possible.

Well Ridley's appeared in every installment other than the 3DS one for some reason so I doubt he'd be absent

 

[Cosmic77]

Brawl music is so good...

I hope we get music as good as that this time.

Music is one area that Brawl excelled in. If Smash Switch were to follow in its footsteps and release awesome remixes of Odyessy and Xenoblade 2 music...

Man, I get chills just thinking about it.

 

[Chandeelure]

Yeah, remixes are almost always good... almost... *looks at Cynthia's theme remix in Smash 4*.

But I was talking more about main theme, menu theme, Final Destination and Battlefield.

Smash 4's were... kinda meh for me.

 

[Deleted member]

Aw **** there's a Ridley thread, can't talk about Ridley! See how this argument doesn't work?

Oh my goodness, I guess my argument does not work. I am sorry for being an idiot at that time.

Yeah, remixes are almost always good... almost... *looks at Cynthia's theme remix in Smash 4*.

But I was talking more about main theme, menu theme, Final Destination and Battlefield.

Smash 4's were... kinda meh for me.

I honestly do not like Cynthia's remix in Smash 4 that much. It is still pretty good I guess, but bring back the original or remix it better in Smash for Switch.

I honestly liked Brawl's remixes much better than Smash 4's. Brawl had really good remixes like the Mario Bros. Underground theme. That was turned into a up-beat rock song that was really good.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yeah, remixes are almost always good... almost... *looks at Cynthia's theme remix in Smash 4*.

But I was talking more about main theme, menu theme, Final Destination and Battlefield.

Smash 4's were... kinda meh for me.

I think Smash 4's main theme would've sounded way better if they slowed it down a bit and added a small choir in the background.

Kinda glad Smash Switch is (presumably) bringing back the choir.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

Say what you want about Sm4sh's mechanics but the game felt super fluid. If they're going to make it less 'floaty' and more competitive I hope they retain its smoothness.

Speaking of Fox and Falco, I really hope their voices are better this time. Especially Fox's.

I'm pretty sure their voice actors remained the same going from Star Fox 64 3D to Smash 4 to Star Fox: Zero, though they sound a lot better in the latter since they aren't straining their voices as hard. Hopefully Sakurai lets them go with Zero's voices.

This, a lot. Going from Brawl Fox to Sm4sh Fox was really jarring. I have no idea why they changed it so drastically.

 

[Chandeelure]

I think Smash 4's main theme would've sounded way better if they slowed it down a bit and added a small choir in the background.

Kinda glad Smash Switch is (presumably) bringing back the choir.

It's funny because I'm literally listening to this now:

 

[Kotor]

Brawl music is so good...

I hope we get music as good as that this time.

I just hope music like from Xenoblade 2 doesn't get butchered to 2 minutes.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

Now a port in switch

 

[Chron]

Either way, Ridley and K.Rool are probably the newcomers that would bring the biggest talk, but if not them, who else?

Why is King K.Rool unlikely? Same with Funky Kong and Lyn?

All of these are far more popular and requested than Bowyer, Felicia, and almost all the other choice.

Also, since we doing Top 5's again.

1. King K.Rool
2. Isaac
3. Impa
4. Dixie Kong
5. Banjo-Kazooie

Looking back, K. Rool really shouldn't have been on the list.
At least MatPat's getting some support.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

Did i talked tHIS A PORT??

 

[Chron]

Been playing Ridley on a Project M hack...

Now I know why he hasn't joined Smash yet.

 

[Opossum]

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye

1. Chrom
2. Celica
3. Decidueye
4. Captain Toad
5. Henry Fleming

 

[Pacack]

https://smashboards.com/threads/top-10-most-wanted-newcomers-for-smash-switch.453658/

I just posted mine with reasoning if anyone's interested.


Question, guys. Do you guys expect newcomers to stay essentially the same, or do you expect some overhauls?

 

[ShadowGuy1]

I just posted mine with reasoning if anyone's interested.


Question, guys. Do you guys expect newcomers to stay essentially the same, or do you expect some overhauls?

I think some will. For example I hope Palutena gets some of her customs to be in her base kit. I also think if Lucina and Dark Pit come back, they should get new movesets. Lucina is essentially a more noticeable figure in fire emblem than Marth is nowadays and is very popular so I think Sakurai will try and make her more unique. I could also see Bowser jr maybe getting a shadow Mario aspect in his moveset as well, but that’s unlikely.

 

[AlphaSSB]

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1) Krystal
2) Ridley
3) Decidueye
4) Midna
5) Spring Man

 

[Cosmic77]

I think some will. For example I hope Palutena gets some of her customs to be in her base kit. I also think if Lucina and Dark Pit come back, they should get new movesets. Lucina is essentially a more noticeable figure in fire emblem than Marth is nowadays and is very popular so I think Sakurai will try and make her more unique. I could also see Bowser jr maybe getting a shadow Mario aspect in his moveset as well, but that’s unlikely.

I can tell I'm running out of things to talk about since this is probably the third time I brought this up.

If Lucina and Dark Pit come back, I REALLY hope they don't get an overhaul, especially with Lucina. The whole point of Lucina's inclusion is so we can have a character identical to Marth but without the tipper mechanic. Taking that away from Lucina defeats her whole purpose IMO.

Plus, if either of the two got their movesets drastically changed, that would completely ruin the "Lucina and Dark Pit are clones and would be easy to add" argument.

 

[Malkior7]

I just posted mine with reasoning if anyone's interested.


Question, guys. Do you guys expect newcomers to stay essentially the same, or do you expect some overhauls?

Most of them will stay the same I think. Dark Pit and Lucina will be in but I believe will be merged with Pit and Marth respectively. If Megaman stays in I could see him getting some moveset changes to be more in line with Megaman 11. And also if custom movesets is carried over I could see the DLC newcomers (and returning vet characters) will get custom moves that they didn't have in SSB4WiiU/3DS.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have been researching the amount of cuts made from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4. Honestly the cuts made are more minimal than I was expecting, 5 to 6 cuts for the game if we look at it from a transitional standpoint.

Melee to Brawl:
Mewtwo
Roy
Doctor Mario
Pichu
Young Link

Brawl to Smash 4:
Solid Snake
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Lucas
Squirtle
Ivysaur

Most of the cuts being made were either of 3rd party circumstances, technical limitation, or just being a low priority clone. If you take out the characters cut for the former two very understandable reasons, you find that Smash 4 cuts are very minimal, aside from Star Fox and MOTHER likely not having any futures, those being the reasons for them being very low priority. Honestly, I can see the cuts for the game being so minimal, going as far to say as a may just get 1-2 cuts, those likely being Roy and Lucas again, and Mewtwo depending on the circumstances.(edited)

Also upon observing the Pokemon selection from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4, I theorize that Game Freak decides what is high priority for their Pokemon selection particular, with Pikachu and a new Pokemon character being the forefront priority. While Jigglypuff and Mewtwo getting the potential axe. IDK about Lucario though. I wonder if Game Freak would allow Sakurai to bring back the idea of the Pokemon Trainer again, with transformations no longer being an issue.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'd say Melee had the best individual tracks but I don't know how much of that is my nostalgia talking.

64's sound was a little janky but worked really well on a couple of tracks.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Now I know we just had a conversation about cuts. I would like to think that no one bears ill will toward another because of their decisions on cuts. I want to bring it up again, not to target anyone/ any character, but to further express why i’m a bit optimistic this time.

I would have to do a bit of research myself considering i’ve been brainstorming this since it was announced (Smash is my favorite, and i’ve played a LOT of games in my day). If somebody knows more than I do, please feel free to add your input.

So from 64 to Melee, there really wasn’t a whole lot of time between them as far as development. There were no cuts, but a fairly large amount of additions in the form of clones/semi clones to buff the roster out. 64 debuted in 1999, with Melee out in 2001. To be fair, the graphical updates and characters were a big step up from 64. Regarding sequels, Melee was pretty great.

From Melee to Brawl, there was a space of 7 years, with Brawl releasing in 2008. While there was a handful of cuts to the “less important” clones and Mewtwo, there could be arguable reasoning for this. Mewtwo, hypothetically, could have been viewed as low priority due to the increase of 4 Pokémon newcomers. Roy, Doc, and evidently Dixie were planned but cut due to time. Sonic being added delayed development (I think that’s right), and without him the game may have been on track to release earlier.

From Brawl to 3DS/Wii U, we saw a timeline of 6 years. Brawl came out in 2008, the vanilla version of 3DS coming out in 2014. Boy, does time go by quickly! This is a fairly incredible achievement given the fact that two games, even though they were the same gameplay, just using different controls and had different stages/trophies, were being created at the same time. There was a pretty great expansion of the roster, as only 3 clones graced the roster. We were given cinematic reveals for effectively every newcomer, each in their own art style. Each character, at least from my view, was given something relatively unique to other characters who were added in previous entries. Shulk will stat altering, Duck Hunt with what is effectively a 3-part moveset (Dog, Duck, Zapper), Bowser Jr. with the Clown Car, Rosalina and Luma with the puppeteer gameplay, Little Mac with the KO Meter, and many others brought some really interesting to this game.

This is where I think there's something different this time.

If you don't know this, the Wii U was marketed poorly and didn't do very well. Many thought it was a $350 expansion on the original Wii or didn't see enough 3rd Party support to commit to buying it, leaving it in the dust instead. This is not the fault of the game of Smash, but the console itself. Nintendo has largely made a point to bring Wii U content that many might have missed to the newest console, the Nintendo Switch. We'll come back to this.

Around the time that Wii U/3DS was planned to be released, a mysterious job listing from Namco/Bandai appeared for "Smash 6". You can find that article here. If we take what we know from Sakurai, I'm fairly certain he referred to Wii U and 3DS as their own entries, with them being Smash Bros. 4 and 5 respectively. The next game in the series would be Smash Bros. 6 running with this logic.

Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, while releasing in 2014, continued to have gradually added content until February 2016, with further balance patches coming even after that. I'm not sure of the last balance patch, but I would love if somebody could help me out there.

Smash Switch gets announced in March of 2018. This would be just over 2 years since Corrin and Bayonetta were added to the roster of the previous game, and less than 2 years since the last balance patches.

If we're right and believe that Smash Switch began development in 2016, then this could mean a few things. First of all, it means that Namco/Bandai could very well be continuing a partnership with Nintendo and Sakurai to make this new game. I am aware they were not listed in the trailer, but that doesn't mean anything. SEGA and Capcom were also not listed, does that mean Sonic and Mega Man/Ryu were cut? No. It's too early to call on that.

Second, if the game is releasing in 2018 it would mean that significant time has been spent in development. It would also mean that, if development began in 2016 that Sakurai literally worked on 3 Smash Bros games in a row. He may have had some time to rest of course, but in terms of what he did work on, it's been Smash.

This is where the failure of the Wii U comes in. Clearly, there had to be a point at Nintendo where there was a point of no return and everyone knew the console was a sinking ship. This would have, logically, been before the final DLC was released for Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS. With this in mind, I have a theory as to what we may see in this new game.

I believe it's entirely possible that, while Sakurai worked on Wii U/3DS, he may have been approached by Nintendo on the state of business. As Sakurai has worked on Smash, he has had opportunities to see things before the general public. He clearly had knowledge of the Switch before the general public if he was developing a game for it prior to the reveal.

Third, and this is more of a potentially subjective point...maybe. Sakurai goes through and gets a character like Cloud as part of the DLC of a game. He, and Nintendo, must be aware of the state of affairs with their mainline console. The console, which supports the game in which this content is being added, will soon no longer be supported. I believe that, with this in mind, Sakurai and Nintendo sought to get this content to maintain in the series. This is why I believe we will see all 3rd parties return.

Next, based on the fact that development didn't take much of a break, let's reconsider the release dates. Wii U released in 2014, but didn't actually finish until 2016. Smash Switch is out in 2018. That's a difference of 2-4 depending on how you look at it. The next closest development time is 64 to Melee, which was over 2 years between release dates. While we're looking at drastically different sized rosters, I do not believe it's out of the realm of possibility to see fewer newcomers with more content being brought over from Wii U/3DS.

I'm by no means an expert, but this is what I'm thinking. While Wii U DID come out 4 years ago, the development didn't even end until roughly 2 years ago. This is one of the fastest turn arounds yet. If you include the fact that Namco was recruiting for the mysterious "Smash 6" before the release of Wii U/3DS, it might suggest an even earlier development time on Smash Switch.

Basically, to wrap up, based on factors that were not relevant to the production of other Smash games, I believe most if not all characters from Wii U/3DS will be retained with additions worked on by a separate team during the development of DLC for Smash Wii U/3DS. If the Namco job listing actually means anything (which, if it was a mistake, WHAT A MISTAKE TO MAKE), then Smash Switch was on the mind during the development of Wii U.

Smash Switch may not be considered a port, but I believe we have reason to believe it will be a sequel similar to Melee. Update the visuals of the characters, but simply add onto the roster. While Melee was mostly clones, the team is bigger and may or may not have had more time than Melee.

What do you think? (Sorry for the wall of text, but I got excited!)

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Can we have this new Smash game have an original melody for everything unlike Sm4sh where everything was the same song?

 

[Troykv]

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye

I think the Top right now is:

1.- Micaiah (always <3)
2.-Bandana Dee
3.- Adeleine
4.- Marx
5.- King K Rool

 

[Burruni]

Smash Switch may not be considered a port, but I believe we have reason to believe it will be a sequel similar to Melee. Update the visuals of the characters, but simply add onto the roster. While Melee was only clones, the team is bigger and may or may not have had more time than Melee.

Ah, yes. My favorite clones in Smash Bros.

(I get your point, though, we already know that this game will have had more than 2 years in the development cycle instead of Melee's hellish 13 months. Latest it got started on being May 2016.)

 

[PixelSun]

I wonder if Game Freak would allow Sakurai to bring back the idea of the Pokemon Trainer again, with transformations no longer being an issue.

It would be cool to see him, AFAIK they didn't add it on sm4sh because of technical limitations in the 3DS (probably the same problem they had with the Ice Climbers?)

 

[Opossum]

Can we have this new Smash game have an original melody for everything unlike Sm4sh where everything was the same song?

It's been that way since Brawl. It wasn't just Smash 4.

 

[Wyoming]

1. King K. Rool
2. Phoenix Wright
3. Black Shadow
4. Dixie Kong
5. Ridley

None of them will make it. Pre-Sm4sh my only want that got in was Shulk so yeah

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ah, yes. My favorite clones in Smash Bros.

(I get your point, though, we already know that this game has had more than 2 years in the development cycle instead of Melee's hellish 13 months)

Thank you for pointing that out. I was typing very quickly and made a silly typo lol.

I have been researching the amount of cuts made from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4. Honestly the cuts made are more minimal than I was expecting, 5 to 6 cuts for the game if we look at it from a transitional standpoint.

Melee to Brawl:
Mewtwo
Roy
Doctor Mario
Pichu
Young Link

Brawl to Smash 4:
Solid Snake
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Lucas
Squirtle
Ivysaur

Most of the cuts being made were either of 3rd party circumstances, technical limitation, or just being a low priority clone. If you take out the characters cut for the former two very understandable reasons, you find that Smash 4 cuts are very minimal, aside from Star Fox and MOTHER likely not having any futures, those being the reasons for them being very low priority. Honestly, I can see the cuts for the game being so minimal, going as far to say as a may just get 1-2 cuts, those likely being Roy and Lucas again, and Mewtwo depending on the circumstances.(edited)

Also upon observing the Pokemon selection from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4, I theorize that Game Freak decides what is high priority for their Pokemon selection particular, with Pikachu and a new Pokemon character being the forefront priority. While Jigglypuff and Mewtwo getting the potential axe. IDK about Lucario though. I wonder if Game Freak would allow Sakurai to bring back the idea of the Pokemon Trainer again, with transformations no longer being an issue.

Transformations weren't really only cut because of technical issues. They were cut because they didn't really work as a concept.

If a player picked Zelda in Melee or Brawl, it was to play Sheik. Zelda is trash in comparison. While you could pick to play either Samus or ZSS in Brawl, making them both independent allowed the team to flesh them both out.

With Pokemon Trainer, overall the character was a mess. The stamina mechanic made the character not very good, and some players may have wanted to stick to one of the three. That was, again, something that while it was forced by technical issues, overall made sense from a gameplay perspective to deconstruct.

I wouldn't predict that characters will be recombined. My belief is they are going to stay separate because it makes them better.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don’t see ICies coming back either. They’re a massive resource hog, and the game is easier to make and optimize without them. And Rosalina does much of what they were supposed to anyway.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If Pokemon Trainer came back, what I'd like is for him to have 4 styles of gameplay, one where he uses all 3 Pokemon like in Brawl (with less stupid design decisions) and one for each Pokemon where Charizard plays like it did in 4 and the others get new special attacks and Final Smashes.

Though if Charizard remained his own Pokemon, who would replace him? Dragonite?

 

[Burruni]

Thank you for pointing that out. I was typing very quickly and made a silly typo lol.

I made a big post about this like yesterday or the day before but.
TL;DR
Brawl had like 2 years, 5 months between development starting and JP release.
Smash 4 is undefined what month it started, but at most was 2 years, 8 months for 3ds, 10 months for WiiU.
Smash Switch started no later than May 2016, and is coming out no earlier than September (if it's to coincide with the paid online) which would still be 2 years and 4 months.
This game's had good time on the cooker.

 

[AadmM]

Though if Charizard remained his own Pokemon, who would replace him? Dragonite?

I vote Snorlax.

Him and Espeon are his only other (non-Smashified) Pokemon if I remember right? Unless they changed something in HeartGold/SoulSilver.

 

[PixelSun]

Though if Charizard remained his own Pokemon, who would replace him? Dragonite?

Probably the new Fire-Starter in it's 3rd evolution

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I made a big post about this like yesterday or the day before but.
TL;DR
Brawl had like 2 years, 5 months between development starting and JP release.
Smash 4 is undefined what month it started, but at most was 2 years, 8 months for 3ds, 10 months for WiiU.
Smash Switch started no later than May 2016, and is coming out no earlier than September (if it's to coincide with the paid online) which would still be 2 years and 4 months.
This game's had good time on the cooker.

Right, it's not quite like Melee in that it was under 2 years. But I believe we might see something like Melee in regards to returning characters if the "sinking ship" mentality played a part.

I just can't imagine Sakurai, as a guy who holds all characters he adds dearly in a sort of "Smash Bros. Family" if you will, would add these great characters and then decide to cut them within a few years.

I do believe this is different in some capacity. We had DLC with Wii U. no other game has had that, or balance patches. It should be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Graizen]

One of the great reasons Agumon is very important for Smash Bros
Make an 8 Player Smash That Way!

 

[Opossum]

I don’t see ICies coming back either. They’re a massive resource hog, and the game is easier to make and optimize without them. And Rosalina does much of what they were supposed to anyway.

Spoken like someone who doesn't play either Ice Climbers or Rosalina and Luma.

One's a tag team character while the other is a puppeteer. That alone dictates their playstyle, and they couldn't be more different.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I vote Snorlax.

Him and Espeon are his only other (non-Smashified) Pokemon if I remember right? Unless they changed something in HeartGold/SoulSilver.

They changed Espeon for Lapras in HGSS but Snorlax would be a good heavyweight choice. I'm thinking, better armour than even Bowser but makes Robin look speedy and camera is made to reconsider it's life choices as it shakes so much when it walks.

 

[Bowserlick]

Pokemon Trainer should be a set of special moves that you could assign to your Mii.

B: Pokeball - a low-range projectile that can trap opponents at higher percentages like Yoshi's tongue

Side B: Bicycle - Similar to Wario's Bike: turns on a dime, does less damage, can throw further, pressing B peddles the bike and makes it go faster

Down B: Pokemon Smash - Similar to Zelda's Phantom. Essentially a Smash move that can be used anywhere. Toggles between three Pokemon

Up B: Waterfall - Similar to Squirtle's Up B. Trainer rides a Water Pokemon up water. Toggles between three water pokemon with slightly different effects

 

[Opossum]

Pokemon Trainer should be a set of special moves that you could assign to your Mii.

B: Pokeball - a low-range projectile that can trap opponents at higher percentages like Yoshi's tongue

Side B: Bicycle - Similar to Wario's Bike: turns on a dime, does less damage, can throw further, pressing B peddles the bike and makes it go faster

Down B: Pokemon Smash - Similar to Zelda's Phantom. Essentially a Smash move that can be used anywhere. Toggles between three Pokemon

Up B: Waterfall - Similar to Squirtle's Up B. Trainer rides a Water Pokemon up water. Toggles between three water pokemon with slightly different effects

Considering how protective GameFreak is, this is basically guaranteed to never happen.