Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Krysco]

Just wait Troykv , give it a decade to a decade and a half and if people haven't lost interest in FE and if Nintendo hasn't gone bankrupt due to more Wii U-esque ideas and if a Radiant Dawn remake happens to be made around the same time as a Smash game, there's the slightest possible chance Micaiah might be considered for a playable character. Ya know, basically going after a 1% crit with a 1% hit chance but it's there.

As for the berserk thing, I'm thinking it wouldn't have range like berserk staves actually have since it's just a medallion and as I said, Mist has frail defense so it'd mostly be useful against mages. Admittedly, I actually haven't played any FE games with berserk staves (got halfway through Rekka no Ken, did Erika's story in SS, beat PoR, RD, SD, Awakening, Fates Birthright and have been on the last 2 chapters of Fates Conquest since the fall) so I don't know how OP berserk would truly be.

 

[?????????????]

I appreciate your interest :D

Well...I've thought about it before.

This was the very first fan roster I ever uploaded to the internet, back in 2009.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

You're living in a cartoon if you think are semi-clones of each other. While we're at it may as well call semi-clones; both can use Inhale and jump multiple times in midair after all, right?

 

[LordJackal]

As far as people being upset about FE characters playing similarly, I think it's mostly due to the series having so much variety that they COULD be pulling from. I get that Sakurai wants the main characters of each franchise, but nobody really plays FE for the lords, most of the interesting characters are supporting cast. There's so much moveset potential that could be pulled from non-lord characters, but the lords themselves are largely similar and bland from game to game.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For the record, Monolith Soft is wholly owned by Nintendo after previously been owned by Namco. Namco keeps the old licences so if Kos-Mos was to show up in Smash as a result of Rex, Namco would need to be involved. This isn't as big of a barrier as it seems and Namco is notoriously loose with their licencing separation, hence why getting PacMan in also brought along Pooka, Boss Galaga, the flag and many number of Namco Arcade stuff.

So if Pac's back, Kos-Mos might be in.

 

[Fenriraga]

For the record, Monolith Soft is wholly owned by Nintendo after previously been owned by Namco. Namco keeps the old licences so if Kos-Mos was to show up in Smash as a result of Rex, Namco would need to be involved. This isn't as big of a barrier as it seems and Namco is notoriously loose with their licencing separation, hence why getting PacMan in also brought along Pooka, Boss Galaga, the flag and many number of Namco Arcade stuff.

So if Pac's back, Kos-Mos might be in.

It would be pretty damn sick to have KOS MOS, Shulk and Rex duke it out, not gonna lie.

I don't see KOS MOS as being too likely though. Possible, but not very likely.

 

[LordJackal]

For the record, Monolith Soft is wholly owned by Nintendo after previously been owned by Namco. Namco keeps the old licences so if Kos-Mos was to show up in Smash as a result of Rex, Namco would need to be involved. This isn't as big of a barrier as it seems and Namco is notoriously loose with their licencing separation, hence why getting PacMan in also brought along Pooka, Boss Galaga, the flag and many number of Namco Arcade stuff.

So if Pac's back, Kos-Mos might be in.

I wouldn't count on Kos-Mos coming in over several other characters with firmer ties to Nintendo and more relevance, but it'd be pretty cool. Maybe as an assist trophy to come along with Rex and represent Monolith's history?

 

[Phaazoid]

They both have stupid kill confirms off grab and are otherwise rewarded heavily for grabbing, they both have ridiculous grab and pivot grab range, they both have lots of arm invuln grounded moves, they both struggle in disadvantage.

Dk bowser aren't nearly similar enough to be considered 'near identical', There are only 3 'near identical' pairs in smash 4, Pit/DPit, Lucina/Marth, and Mario/DocMario. While there are other pairs with lots of similarities (like ganon/Falcon), DK/Bowser aren't even close enough to be considered in that group. This line of thinking is simply incorrect and you won't find any ground with it here.

 

[LordJackal]

Dk bowser aren't nearly similar enough to be considered 'near identical', There are only 3 'near identical' pairs in smash 4, Pit/DPit, Lucina/Marth, and Mario/DocMario. While there are other pairs with lots of similarities (like ganon/Falcon), DK/Bowser aren't even close enough to be considered in that group. This line of thinking is simply incorrect and you won't find any ground with it here.

Yeah, heavy characters with a grapple move being similar is ridiculous. Link shares more similarity with Marth than that.

 

[Troykv]

As far as people being upset about FE characters playing similarly, I think it's mostly due to the series having so much variety that they COULD be pulling from. I get that Sakurai wants the main characters of each franchise, but nobody really plays FE for the lords, most of the interesting characters are supporting cast. There's so much moveset potential that could be pulled from non-lord characters, but the lords themselves are largely similar and bland from game to game.

For these reason actually being proven with Chrom; I hadn't never complete lose hope in Micaiah; Sakurai doesn't put FE Characters just for the sake of doing so... He needs something to play around. And Chrom wasn't that different from Marth and Ike to being another thing instead of a second Roy.

 

[RodNutTakin]

This was the very first fan roster I ever uploaded to the internet, back in 2009.

To this day it still irks me when I see people refer to X as simply "Mega Man".

Otherwise, I'd say this roster is pretty solid for someone's very first fan roster.

 

[IronTed]

Can we call Samus and Link semi-clones now as well? Their neutral specials involve a charged projectile, their side special involves a projectile you can somewhat control, they have a spinny recovery move, and they can use bombs to assist in recovery. They also have tether grabs.

Edit: If you couldn't tell, this isn't serious.

 

[?????????????]

To this day it still irks me when I see people refer to X as simply "Mega Man".

Otherwise, I'd say this roster is pretty solid for someone's very first fan roster.

Well...it was just the first one I uploaded. Previous drafts included Pac-man (who I decided was too boring), Banjo (who I gave up because of Microsoft ownership), Daroach (pretty much because I had just played Kirby Squeak Squad and thought he'd become a bigger deal, but wasn't), Duster (my favorite MOTHER character), and Swordsman Dark Matter (who I ultimately decided wasn't important enough to be a priority).

Even then, I cut Ness on this roster, which I changed later, but HOO BOY did that have backlash!

 

[LordJackal]

For these reason actually being proven with Chrom; I hadn't never complete lose hope in Micaiah; Sakurai doesn't put FE Characters just for the sake of doing so... He needs something to play around. And Chrom wasn't that different from Marth and Ike to being another thing instead of a second Roy.

At least Ike was different from the other lords in that he used his sword more like a club and was more built around strength than finesse. I wish Sakurai could justify putting in Ephraim if he wants lords so bad, at least then we'd have a lance instead of a sword.

Micaiah would be a great choice gameplay-wise, but I'm not sure he's going to add her at this rate if he hasn't in the past.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I think Smash likes to use magic/psychic abilites as a reason for being lightweight more for everyone, not just the females.

Rosalina and Mewtwo are only lightweight because they use their powers to make themselves more agile. I think the same can be said about Palutena, considering her wings, foating when she runs, etc. Heck, one of her customs is meant to make her even MORE lightweight so she can have even more agility.

Ness and Lucas too, to a lesser extent.

I dislike Sakurai's logic here. is allowed to fly around like Palutena, and even has an extra jump, and it's one of the heaviest characters.

 

[Fenriraga]

At least Ike was different from the other lords in that he used his sword more like a club and was more built around strength than finesse. I wish Sakurai could justify putting in Ephraim if he wants lords so bad, at least then we'd have a lance instead of a sword.

Micaiah would be a great choice gameplay-wise, but I'm not sure he's going to add her at this rate if he hasn't in the past.

Aura sees a chance to fanboy about Lyn more and jumps at the chance

Lyn would also be a good pick in this regard, as her sword style is quite different from other FE Lords. Celica too, though she's not a Lord.

I dislike Sakurai's logic here. is allowed to fly around like Palutena, and even has an extra jump, and it's one of the heaviest characters.

Because he has literal wings. If he didn't have those, he'd be just as grounded as the rest of the heavyweights.

Palutena has... magic wings. She doesn't actually use them to fly. Again, it's more focused on her using her powers to make herself more agile at the cost of her weight.

Plus Palutena is practically his character at this point. So it's not like he took creative liberties like he does with other characters, that's literally how he envisioned her to be.

 

[shrooby]

Bowser and DK play similarly if you are trying to play them competitively. If you don't, then yes they are very different on the surface.
I don't know how many of you follow(ed) competitive Smash 4, but they do indeed play very similarly.
similar gameplan =/= (semi)clone. I'm assuming that wasn't the argument?

I, too, would prefer if their gameplan wasn't really similar. I feel like there's more ways to make the heavies good than just making them have a gameplan similar to DK (he did first, then Bowser got a grab combo/kill confirm in another patch).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

BTW, is there a new version of Roster Maker out? My version seems to be on the blink.

 

[Troykv]

At least Ike was different from the other lords in that he used his sword more like a club and was more built around strength than finesse. I wish Sakurai could justify putting in Ephraim if he wants lords so bad, at least then we'd have a lance instead of a sword.

Micaiah would be a great choice gameplay-wise, but I'm not sure he's going to add her at this rate if he hasn't in the past.

Who knows... Only time will answer it... I hope doesn't take that much time.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I suppose can all be considered semi-clones as well since that all have a side special that launches them forward.

EDIT: this is satire if you couldn't tell

 

[?????????????]

Just to reiterate what shrooby is saying, this was never intended to be an argument about Bowser and DK being semi-clones. It's about them being played similarly at the competitive level.

It's an entirely different argument.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Alright, guys, I think we get the point that a couple similar moves doesn't make you a semi clone, let's start having productive conversation again

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I suppose can all be considered semi-clones as well since that all have a side special that launches them forward.

EDIT: this is satire if you couldn't tell

Making a joke in this thread? Courageous.

I was wondering who the surprise character could be in this new game (if it's one). Previously, it was Wii Fit Trainer. But I didn't check many WiiU games, so I can't tell who could get in. I only remember Monita from Nintendoland, and that's it. It's also possible that we won't get one, but if we were to have by any chance this mysterious character, who do you think it could be?

 

[mario123007]

On the topic of Mythra, as someone who hasn't yet played Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I know absolutely nothing about her. I didn't even know her name until this thread.

Knowing her name isn't a spoiler, I already knew her Japanese name way back in the first Trailer...

C) Smash has held a pretty firm line about being all-ages, so I'm not sure why people are suddenly hoping this one goes full "T" and puts in provocatively dressed JRPG characters. I mean, people have posted examples of Smash tweaking things to de-sexualize them a bit, and Pyra is MUCH more of a censorship dilemma than a side split on Palutena's gown or underwear on Rosalina, yet those got tweaked. People are right as far as "we can't know until it comes out", but I'm not seeing evidence for leaving the character as is beyond "please don't cover up my scantily-clad video-game crush" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No, once again it never was, I can also say I never get why people hoping this game stays E10+ when the fact that there's two Smash Bros game rated T (Even though Melee was because E10+ didn't exist at the time...)
Also a bit odd how you specifically mention JRPG characters... then again you also have Bayonetta which also get minor tweaks...
And what about Twintelle? LOL... Just kidding

When we haven't seeing and trailers and gameplay, it obvious that nobody should straight up say Smash Bros Switch is sure going to be either T or E10+...

The reason why I stand by say it might be T (And a bit hope to be T personally) is by looking at Switch's games developing direction, you even have Nintendo themselves said they want more hardcore mature games on Switch. Even though this doesn't directly prove this but... you can see Nintendo is more open minded then they were back in the Wii U days. So your last statement (Please don't cover my ... video.. what?) is a bit mediocre if I do say so myself (Please don't take this too offensive)

 

[Michelaar]

I rlly don't get the sword complaint. That is like complaining about so many brawlers. Most sword units play differently, what is the problem.

 

[IronTed]

Unless I am wrong, Melee was released at a time when the E10+ rating did not exist, it went from E to T.

 

[Staarih]

Labo Man idea strikes again!
It's genius

#laboman4smash pic.twitter.com/nErBUaBkEY

— Javed L Sterritt (@JavedLSterritt) March 19, 2018

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

In an article about the rating system, according to Sakurai, the first thing Western rating system asked to see is that there are no guns being used. In another recent article (2017), Sakurai states that he bought a mech toy to use the gun model as a reference piece for his current project. So it's fairly obvious that model was for Smash Bros. It's possible that Smash has a T rating if the Western rating system is the same as it was before Smash 4.

Reference articles:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...oy_purchase_is_related_to_his_current_project

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/18/cero-and-palutenas-censorship/

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Labo Man idea strikes again!
It's genius

#laboman4smash pic.twitter.com/nErBUaBkEY

— Javed L Sterritt (@JavedLSterritt) March 19, 2018

This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you my dude.

 

[IronTed]

Labo Man idea strikes again!
It's genius

#laboman4smash pic.twitter.com/nErBUaBkEY

— Javed L Sterritt (@JavedLSterritt) March 19, 2018

Yeah, when I first saw it that really convinced me of Labo's potential.

Unfortunately I feel Labo came out too late to make the cut. Maybe they'll be DLC or added in an update post-launch.

 

[mario123007]

I rlly don't get the sword complaint. That is like complaining about so many brawlers. Most sword units play differently, what is the problem.

Obligatory

Unless I am wrong, Melee was released at a time when the E10+ rating did not exist, it went from E to T.

Yes, I already aware of that...
Then again, despite I personally prefer Smash being T, I don't mind or even care its rating to be honest (Unless it is rated eC, lol), just give me Rex, Travis Touchdown and Min Min and I'm happy.
Oh yeah, I might bring up my Smash Bros character wishlist soon...

 

[Fenriraga]

In an article about the rating system, according to Sakurai, the first thing Western rating system asked to see is that there are no guns being used. In another recent article (2017), Sakurai states that he bought a mech toy to use the gun model as a reference piece for his current project. So it's fairly obvious that model was for Smash Bros. It's possible that Smash has a T rating if the Western rating system is the same as it was before Smash 4.

Reference articles:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...oy_purchase_is_related_to_his_current_project

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/18/cero-and-palutenas-censorship/

Not all Mecha's guns fall under traditional artillery. Likewise, using a real weapon as a basis doesn't mean the product he was going for will be a realisitc weapon. Toy Guns and Squirt Guns had to have regular guns as a basis for their designs, after all. So I really don't think that means much of anything.

Except that Custom Robo/Ray is confirmed for Smash

 

[DraginHikari]

I'm still surprised people honestly think Sonic has a chance of being cut.

Like, a CHANCE maybe, but he's honestly a much more likely return than some of Nintendo's own characters, as weird as that is to say out loud.

Keep in mind he was the single highest requested character in Smash all the way up to his inclusion. And is among the few, if not the only, guest character(s) in any fighting game to come back to the same series more than once.

The only way I could ever see Sonic not making it would be if Sega said no. And I don't think that'll happen.

I think people are approaching it on the issue of 'nothing about 3rd parties is absolute'.

 

[LordJackal]

I rlly don't get the sword complaint. That is like complaining about so many brawlers. Most sword units play differently, what is the problem.

We're not getting a variety of sword units, though, we're getting all Lords.

There's also just SO MUCH in FE that could be shown.

 

[Fenriraga]

I think people are approaching it on the issue of 'nothing about 3rd parties is absolute'.

I suppose that's fair. Still, Sonic is on an entirely different level than most third parties. But I guess that kinda goes without saying at this point.

 

[DraginHikari]

I suppose that's fair. Still, Sonic is on an entirely different level than most third parties. But I guess that kinda goes without saying at this point.

Mostly because Nintendo and Sega for the most part have had a pretty stable business relationship in recent years. Even in those cases though the power of corporate red tape can make anything possible.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Not all Mecha's guns fall under traditional artillery. Likewise, using a real weapon as a basis doesn't mean the product he was going for will be a realisitc weapon. So I really don't think that means much of anything.

Except that Custom Robo/Ray is confirmed for Smash

I mean Ray is the dream for me. If you look at the linked article, though, they have specific details on the mech in question. The guns from that anime are pretty standard gun look, though perhaps no more of a gun than the super scope. Maybe it depends on the way the gun fires, but honestly the rating system's rules behind what qualifies as a real gun or not seems a little ambiguous unless they mean it has to be a completely realistic firearm, meaning you could liken it to a specific firearm you can find irl.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Jigglypuff and Little Mac are clones. They both punch.


alsosatireifyoucouldn'ttell

 

[ColietheGoalie]

The reason why I stand by say it might be T (And a bit hope to be T personally) is by looking at Switch's games developing direction, you even have Nintendo themselves said they want more hardcore mature games on Switch. Even though this doesn't directly prove this but... you can see Nintendo is more open minded then they were back in the Wii U days.

I understand that, but to me it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Just because Nintendo is more open to mature games on Switch doesn't mean they're open to Smash being a more mature game, you know?

Like in films, when Deadpool was a huge R-rated hit for Fox, it opened up the doors for R-rated movies to take more chances budget-wise, because they realized people were willing to pay to see it regardless of rating. BUT, that being said, it doesn't mean that studios are suddenly going to take kid's properties and make them R-rated because "R-rated sells." An environment (as you've described with Nintendo) that's more open to mature doesn't mean each property is going to start going mature. That's all.

 

[LordJackal]

I mean Ray is the dream for me. If you look at the linked article, though, they have specific details on the mech in question. The guns from that anime are pretty standard gun look, though perhaps no more of a gun than the super scope. Maybe it depends on the way the gun fires, but honestly the rating system's rules behind what qualifies as a real gun or not seems a little ambiguous unless they mean it has to be a completely realistic firearm, meaning you could liken it to a specific firearm you can find irl.

Honestly, if it doesn't shoot realistic bullets it might be okay. I mean, Diddy's got the peanut popgun--because it functions so differently from a real firearm, nobody'd even think about penalizing it.

Then again, I also shot a commercial a few weeks ago where we specifically had to say 'archers' instead of 'snipers', because even that was too similar to actual gun violence to be advertiser friendly. When it comes to ratings, most of it is just guesswork and it's not really consistent.