Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Geno Boost]

I see so many top 10 lists with Goku suggested seriously for smash its kinda scary

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

One parent =/= every parent.

Take my overprotective aunt for example. She banned my 10 year-old cousin from watching SpongeBob after she walked in on this questionable scene (which in her defense, looks pretty bad if you don't know the context).

Spoiler

Needless to say, she probably wouldn't approve of Pyra. Every parent is different.

A pretty ironic dilemma when you consider that TV-Y7 programs are for viewers who are 7-years old and above. Of course, I never was into SpongeBob.

I will admit though, that after seeing Zero and 02 from the Kirby titles, I likely wouldn't let any young kids play Kirby's Dream Land 3 or Kirby 64. Sure, you won't see them until very late in their game appearances, but when you're not very comfortable with blood sightings, you probably want to be a good figure for the kids by preventing them from potentially seeing things that could leave them traumatized.

 

[Cosmic77]

A pretty ironic dilemma when you consider that TV-Y7 programs are for viewers who are 7-years old and above. Of course, I never was into SpongeBob.

I will admit though, that after seeing Zero and 02 from the Kirby titles, I likely wouldn't let any young kids play Kirby's Dream Land 3 or Kirby 64. Sure, you won't see them until very late in their game appearances, but when you're not very comfortable with blood sightings, you probably want to be a good figure for the kids by preventing them from potentially seeing things that could leave them traumatized.

Kirby is a misleading franchise. Teens dismiss it as a baby game, little kids love it.

And then the final boss shows up.

It's a charm I've come to love from the series, but as a parent, I'd probably want to see the final boss before I deem whether or not my kid should be playing the game.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Regarding the tendency of previous games to focus on previous-gen games, could anyone else see Rex and/or Spring Man missing the base roster but making it for DLC?

Spring Man is gonna be DLC imo.

 

[DraginHikari]

I see so many top 10 lists with Goku suggested seriously for smash its kinda scary

Not really that surprising. With Dragonball's resurfacing in the last few years with Dragonball Super, the movies, and the recent games such as Dragonball Fighterz, Xenoverse II, etc. Goku presences as one of the most recognizable anime characters in the world is higher then it's been in a number of years. It's going to make him end up on wishlists as there is some cross over between the Dragonball fanbase and people who like Smash Bros. Now whether that's a realistic expectation or not is another topic but the reason why he appears on so many lists is not that surprising to me.

A pretty ironic dilemma when you consider that TV-Y7 programs are for viewers who are 7-years old and above. Of course, I never was into SpongeBob.

I will admit though, that after seeing Zero and 02 from the Kirby titles, I likely wouldn't let any young kids play Kirby's Dream Land 3 or Kirby 64. Sure, you won't see them until very late in their game appearances, but when you're not very comfortable with blood sightings, you probably want to be a good figure for the kids by preventing them from potentially seeing things that could leave them traumatized.

Like any rating system it is subject to change as norms shift in society. I was born in the era where the Simpsons was considered shocking and I doubt anyone today would consider it shocking in comparison to Family Guy or South Park. Standards have changed and the what is considered acceptable for children has changed in some regards as well. It can also be stretched as the guidelines can be kind of vague and are left up to interpretation. Also as artist most creators will try to stretch the rating as far as they can without crossing that line. Spongebob is frankly a good example about how far a rating can be stretched.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Kirby is a misleading franchise. Teens dismiss it as a baby game, little kids love it.

And then the final boss shows up.

It's a charm I've come to love from the series, but as a parent, I'd probably want to see the final boss before I deem whether or not my kid should be playing the game.

At least I know that Kirby's Return to Dream Land is perfectly fine for a 10-year old child to play, since as intimidating as Magolor's second phase and Magolor Soul might be, they're way more tame than the likes of Zero and 02.

In regards to Kirby Triple Deluxe, however, I remember seeing what appeared to be blood during the Dark Meta Knight boss battle. Queen Sectonia, Shadow Dedede, and Soul of Sectonia may be tame, but definitely not Dark Meta Knight.

Like any rating system it is subject to change as norms shift in society. I was born in the era where the Simpsons was considered shocking and I doubt anyone today would consider it shocking in comparison to Family Guy or South Park. Standards have changed and the what is considered acceptable for children has changed in some regards as well. It can also be stretched as the guidelines can be kind of vague and are left up to interpretation. Also as artist most creators will try to stretch the rating as far as they can without crossing that line. Spongebob is frankly a good example about how far a rating can be stretched.

I think I remember seeing at least one program get its rating increased from TV-Y7, to TV-PG, due to having contents that aren't exactly suitable for a TV-Y7 program.

Anyway, I too grew up at a time where the TV rating system was implemented, especially with the various Disney TV shows that existed. If memory serves me right, Darkwing Duck was rather TV-Y7, since its contents were darker than what you'd find with most other 1990's Disney shows (which either got the TV-Y or TV-G rating), such as DuckTales.

 

[---]

The problem is that Pyra's outfit looks too revealing to be utilized in an E10+ environment. Sure, going for the Teen rating may put that issue in the trash, but even then, I'd still feel rather disturbed with the way Pyra's outfit looks.

I'd imagine they could edit her outfit slightly like they did with . If they increased the length of her shorts I don't think there would be much of an issue. Granted I haven't played Xenoblade 2 myself.

IDK they allowed ZS Samus show a lot of skin, but had to exploit DLC legal loopholes to help get Bayonetta in without the rating change. Determining the ESRB sweet spot is really tough.

EDIT: also had to be censored.

 

[mario123007]

Wouldn't KOS-MOS require extra legal trouble?

Um, I guess not... but still hard to say, only soft credit is that KOS-MOS is in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and... Project X Zone 2... so she has been in crossovers.

"Monstrosity" is a weirdly strong word to use here.

I don't see Smash going back to a T rating since Nintendo may want to keep the audience as wide as possible. Inclusivity leads to more sales, after all, if there's less of an age barrier. And there's no way Pyra's current design is getting into an E10 game.

That's just merely my view on that Pyra's Photoshop. .. I do admit it is extreme to some degree, sorry about that, but I am still personally bothered on that photoshop though, just saying.

Again sorry, but we have no gameplay footage, first wave of roster of the game yet, so neither you and me can be so sure. If you just personally prefer Smash Bros should be rate E10+ just for the sake of "suitable for wide audience" well... not sure if that even matter imo since Odyssey is E10+ rather than E for past main Mario games, I understand the gap between E10+ and E is pretty small but it did not affect the sales whatsoever or kids and parents are shying away from the game. Therefore, I don't see why Nintendo might intentionally made the game E10+, don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind it eventually be E10+. I just don't think it will be E10+, which is on the contrary to you that's all.

Take my overprotective aunt for example. She banned my 10 year-old cousin from watching SpongeBob after she walked in on this questionable scene (which in her defense, looks pretty bad if you don't know the context).

You already mention one parents =/= every parents, yet you still bring up your aunt... nevermind... sorry.

Do you know what's funny?
That scene was completely cut when being broadcast in my country (Taiwan) lol.
As for Spongebob, my families don't think it is a show that is questionable... they just think the show is "stupid"...
I mean, I am from Taiwan where we often have Japanese anime cartoons where even some child friendly anime can be questionable sometimes, take Doraemon and Detective Conan for example... on tend to have moderate questionable scene, and other has crime scenes that will be baffled by some peoples, yet they are all widely popular.

In conclusion, I think when it comes to this stuff, West and Japan/East seems to have different standards I guess... so I get why some prefer Smash Bros to stay E10+...

But also remember that this is almost certainly simply due to the massive install base of the Wii relative to any of the other consoles Smash is on rather than anything to do with the age rating, and so bringing it up as an argument for a higher age rating is misleading at best.

No, but just as you said, that means install base in matters more than ESRB rating, it's just a guidance for parents to look at. I bring it up means that age rating doesn't effect game sales or the audience... so I don't see why Nintendo will intentioanlly made Smash Bros Switch E10+.
Then again... this is an unknown territory that is a bit pointless to discuss at this point.

I'm not as young as I once was, but even if you're old enough to legally be playing an M-rated game, that doesn't necessarily mean that you should. Besides, there's nothing wrong with an adult playing a child-friendly game.

Oh, that quote wasn't replying to you... sorry. That's why I said "I understand", nobody is going to like every M rated or T rated games regardless of it is the best game of the year or widely acclaim.

Confession time:
I really really hate horror games regardless of it is a very good game or not.

I personally focus on the gameplay though, and what attracts me the most, the age rating is probably the last thing I matter.

 

[Krysco]

Kay, so I'm playing catch up like crazy. Currently on page 567 and I wasn't even at page 500 when this thread hit 600 pages. Just gonna get some thoughts out from what I've read regardless of how off topic they may be. This thread moves way too fast for me to keep on topic anyways.

Potential cuts:
Going off past entries, we've only ever had newcomers get cut () aside from Ice Climbers due to the 3DS and while Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are veterans, they also only got in due to DLC, meaning they were low enough priority to not get into the base game. Same for Doc but without the DLC bit. I have Sonic listed too despite him being in 2 Smash games now because, at the end of the day, his inclusion is not entirely up to Nintendo, same goes for any 3rd party character. And for anyone who argues 'unique moveset', Mewtwo says hi. Planned or not, he was cut from Brawl.

Do I think they'll all get cut? Of course not. The only ones I think even have a chance of being cut are Bowser Jr due to barely getting into Sm4sh, Cloud due to the supposed difficulty of even acquiring an SE character, Corrin since Fates no longer needs promotion, Dark Pit and Lucina due to being clones which are traditionally cut, Doc since he was cut from Brawl and is a clone, Greninja really just as a hunch since Mewtwo got cut before despite having a unique moveset, Lucas due to being initially cut from Sm4sh, Mewtwo and Roy due to being cut from Brawl and Miis due to the restriction that was placed on them when it came to online play without friends.

Seeing as how I only have 1 friend in person that I play Smash with, I'm perfectly fine with 8 player Smash being taken out. It's also the worst part of Classic, Crazy Orders and to a lesser extent All Star. The best thing it brought was more shield colours. No joke, sometimes my cousin and I would abuse the amiibo glitch so we could be whatever player port we wanted just to do 1v1s with different shields. He always went for the orange player 5 shield while I always went for the purple player 7 one. Oh and 8 player Smash also brought the great idea of turning off hazards but that's worthless without it just being a feature that can be toggled whenever.

There was some question way back about a new character, a stage, a mechanic and a rework and I'd like to answer the latter 2.

For the mechanic, honestly, I'd love for a few things. Bring back ledge slipping while in shield so you can actually pressure someones shield if they're at an edge, bring back edgehogging too since ledge trumping makes recoveries way too free, bring back directional air dodges and restrict them to one time use before you touch the ground (but don't have them put you in helpless). This further helps making recovering less free and also brings back wavedashing which is a much needed movement tool imo.

For the rework, I've brought it up before this place went crazy active but Ganondorf. I say this as someone who only cares about Ganondorf because of my joy from using him in Smash and I'm fully aware that I may not like his new moveset if he gets one based off his appearances in Zelda but that's what bringing in Black Shadow is for. We get the best of both worlds. We keep the moveset people love and Ganondorf gets a more fitting moveset. I really, really don't see the point in getting upset with this just because it's not Ganondorf acting like he's Captain Falcon but rather Black Shadow acting that way.

Lastly, an issue I've had for a while. People like to say Fire Emblem is now like Pokemon where it's a 'revolving cast' where we constantly get a new character for the series from the most recent game. That is true of course thanks to Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina and Corrin. My issue with this however is the direct comparison and acting like there's nothing wrong with it. With the Pokemon characters, the only one we've ever gotten that plays anything like another is Pichu who was added to pad out Melee's roster size. Pikachu plays nothing like Puff who plays nothing like Charizard who plays nothing like Lucario who plays nothing like Ivysaur who plays nothing like Greninja who plays nothing like Squirtle. They all have differing body shapes, attacks, stats such as speed, weight, frame data and so on.

Compare that to Fire Emblem where every character we've gotten so far largely uses a sword. Yes, even Robin and Corrin. They're all tall humans (compared to the shorter stature of Mario for example) who all have poor frame data to make up for their range, the heaviest of them is Ike with the rest being rather similar (within 8 units of weight from each other). This, I feel, is why people have a bigger issue with more FE characters compared to more Pokemon, plus Pokemon is a bigger franchise anyways. I don't even fully feel that an axe user would change things up too much since an axe is swung in a largely similar manner to a sword, albeit heavier. Lances have it a bit easier due to their extra range and higher focus on stabbing and then a full mage, archer, stone wielder or to a lesser extent knife wielder would all play far more different than any other FE character we've gotten so far.

Not to say they're all clones or anything or that they don't have their nuances that set them apart but they are indeed more similar to each other than any of the Pokemon are barring Pichu.

Anyways, long as heck post out of the way. I'll see about replying to any responses I get but I'm not reading anything else here until I catch up from where I left off.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Oh, that quote wasn't replying to you... sorry. That's why I said "I understand", nobody is going to like every M rated or T rated games regardless of it is the best game of the year or widely acclaim.

Confession time:
I really really hate horror games regardless of it is a very good game or not.

I personally focus on the gameplay though, and what attracts me the most, the age rating is probably the last thing I matter.

I'll just say that you'll never catch me playing any of those hardcore games, such as Overwatch and Call of Duty. And of course, I stay clear from the M-rated games for obvious reasons.

 

[Fenriraga]

Pyra and Mythra are equally important to the plot of XC2.

Ideally, I’d want Rex to be able to switch between the two and gain different moves or properties depending on which one he’s using.

While that statement is true, I just have this gut feeling we're only going to get Pyra and Rex.

I dunno, I only say that because A. Pyra is in all the major marketing of the game rather than Mythra and B. Mythra is... Kinda a spoiler? Like, not really, since I know Xenoblade's own direct talked about her, and the vast majority of people here will at least know who she is. And it's not like spoilers ever stopped Sakurai before.

But I dunno, Pyra alone just seems more likely to me. I am fully willing and probably even likely to be wrong, though.

 

[mario123007]

I'll just say that you'll never catch me playing any of those hardcore games, such as Overwatch and Call of Duty. And of course, I stay clear from the M-rated games for obvious reasons.

No comment, lol.
Everyone has their own line when buying games, I can only sort of recommend you to try out those games sometime.
I avoid M rated games back when I was high school student too lol, and that's probably why I only lay Mario and never play other games, even JRPGs...

But then when I heard Nintendo has their own JRPG called Xenoblade, even though I wasn't interested to the game at first, because of Shulk in Smash (Which funny enough, I was pretty salty when he was confirmed in) I check the gameplay and eventually bought Xenoblade 3D... and look what happened lol.

While that statement is true, I just have this gut feeling we're only going to get Pyra and Rex.

I dunno, I only say that because A. Pyra is in all the major marketing of the game rather than Mythra and B. Mythra is... Kinda a spoiler? Like, not really, since I know Xenoblade's own direct talked about her, and the vast majority of people here will at least know who she is. And it's not like spoilers ever stopped Sakurai before.

But I dunno, Pyra alone just seems more likely to me. I am fully willing and probably even likely to be wrong, though.

Mythra? Spoiler? Not really... She was one of the first characters to appear beside Nia,Rex and Pyra in the first trailer... don't ask my why I put Nia first...lol

In my opinion, Nintendo/Monolithdoft handheld the Trailers very well when it comes to spoilers... if you want 100% spoiler free though... avoid character trailer, story trailer, Xenoblade Direct and even accolades trailer (I haven't check it though). And... also avoid Xenoblade Youtuber's videos, Twitter, fanart websites etc... some are bad at keeping spoilers... like.. my, sis... orz...

 

[Fenriraga]

No comment, lol.
Everyone has their own line when buying games, I can only sort of recommend you to try out those games sometime.
I avoid M rated games back when I was high school student too lol, and that's probably why I only lay Mario and never play other games, even JRPGs...

But then when I heard Nintendo has their own JRPG called Xenoblade, even though I wasn't interested to the game at first, because of Shulk in Smash (Which funny enough, I was pretty salty when he was confirmed in) I check the gameplay and eventually bought Xenoblade 3D... and look what happened lol.

Mythra? Spoiler? Not really... She was one of the first characters to appear beside Nia,Rex and Pyra in the first trailer... don't ask my why I put Nia first...lol

In my opinion, Nintendo/Monolithdoft handheld the Trailers very well when it comes to spoilers... if you want 100% spoiler though... avoid character trailer, story trailer, Xenoblade Direct and even accolades trailer (I haven't check it though).

I guess I mean more that the game itself treats her very much like a spoiler. They're VERY hush hush about her all the way up until the chapter she comes out. Plus, we knew much more about Rex and Pyra and Nia before they gave us ANYTHING about Mythra, likely due to her plot significance.

I'm just saying, to someone going into Xenoblade 2 completely blind and without following it's promotional stuff, Mythra is technically, by all accounts, a spoiler.

 

[Troykv]

Kay, so I'm playing catch up like crazy. Currently on page 567 and I wasn't even at page 500 when this thread hit 600 pages. Just gonna get some thoughts out from what I've read regardless of how off topic they may be. This thread moves way too fast for me to keep on topic anyways.

Potential cuts:
Going off past entries, we've only ever had newcomers get cut () aside from Ice Climbers due to the 3DS and while Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are veterans, they also only got in due to DLC, meaning they were low enough priority to not get into the base game. Same for Doc but without the DLC bit. I have Sonic listed too despite him being in 2 Smash games now because, at the end of the day, his inclusion is not entirely up to Nintendo, same goes for any 3rd party character. And for anyone who argues 'unique moveset', Mewtwo says hi. Planned or not, he was cut from Brawl.

Do I think they'll all get cut? Of course not. The only ones I think even have a chance of being cut are Bowser Jr due to barely getting into Sm4sh, Cloud due to the supposed difficulty of even acquiring an SE character, Corrin since Fates no longer needs promotion, Dark Pit and Lucina due to being clones which are traditionally cut, Doc since he was cut from Brawl and is a clone, Greninja really just as a hunch since Mewtwo got cut before despite having a unique moveset, Lucas due to being initially cut from Sm4sh, Mewtwo and Roy due to being cut from Brawl and Miis due to the restriction that was placed on them when it came to online play without friends.

Seeing as how I only have 1 friend in person that I play Smash with, I'm perfectly fine with 8 player Smash being taken out. It's also the worst part of Classic, Crazy Orders and to a lesser extent All Star. The best thing it brought was more shield colours. No joke, sometimes my cousin and I would abuse the amiibo glitch so we could be whatever player port we wanted just to do 1v1s with different shields. He always went for the orange player 5 shield while I always went for the purple player 7 one. Oh and 8 player Smash also brought the great idea of turning off hazards but that's worthless without it just being a feature that can be toggled whenever.

There was some question way back about a new character, a stage, a mechanic and a rework and I'd like to answer the latter 2.

For the mechanic, honestly, I'd love for a few things. Bring back ledge slipping while in shield so you can actually pressure someones shield if they're at an edge, bring back edgehogging too since ledge trumping makes recoveries way too free, bring back directional air dodges and restrict them to one time use before you touch the ground (but don't have them put you in helpless). This further helps making recovering less free and also brings back wavedashing which is a much needed movement tool imo.

For the rework, I've brought it up before this place went crazy active but Ganondorf. I say this as someone who only cares about Ganondorf because of my joy from using him in Smash and I'm fully aware that I may not like his new moveset if he gets one based off his appearances in Zelda but that's what bringing in Black Shadow is for. We get the best of both worlds. We keep the moveset people love and Ganondorf gets a more fitting moveset. I really, really don't see the point in getting upset with this just because it's not Ganondorf acting like he's Captain Falcon but rather Black Shadow acting that way.

Lastly, an issue I've had for a while. People like to say Fire Emblem is now like Pokemon where it's a 'revolving cast' where we constantly get a new character for the series from the most recent game. That is true of course thanks to Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina and Corrin. My issue with this however is the direct comparison and acting like there's nothing wrong with it. With the Pokemon characters, the only one we've ever gotten that plays anything like another is Pichu who was added to pad out Melee's roster size. Pikachu plays nothing like Puff who plays nothing like Charizard who plays nothing like Lucario who plays nothing like Ivysaur who plays nothing like Greninja who plays nothing like Squirtle. They all have differing body shapes, attacks, stats such as speed, weight, frame data and so on.

Compare that to Fire Emblem where every character we've gotten so far largely uses a sword. Yes, even Robin and Corrin. They're all tall humans (compared to the shorter stature of Mario for example) who all have poor frame data to make up for their range, the heaviest of them is Ike with the rest being rather similar (within 8 units of weight from each other). This, I feel, is why people have a bigger issue with more FE characters compared to more Pokemon, plus Pokemon is a bigger franchise anyways. I don't even fully feel that an axe user would change things up too much since an axe is swung in a largely similar manner to a sword, albeit heavier. Lances have it a bit easier due to their extra range and higher focus on stabbing and then a full mage, archer, stone wielder or to a lesser extent knife wielder would all play far more different than any other FE character we've gotten so far.

Not to say they're all clones or anything or that they don't have their nuances that set them apart but they are indeed more similar to each other than any of the Pokemon are barring Pichu.

Anyways, long as heck post out of the way. I'll see about replying to any responses I get but I'm not reading anything else here until I catch up from where I left off.

Micaiah would be a light weight character, a bit shorter and with White/Light Magic abilities instead of Swords :D

 

[mario123007]

I'm just saying, to someone going into Xenoblade 2 completely blind and without following it's promotional stuff, Mythra is technically, by all accounts, a spoiler.

But you see her in trailers, even promotional artwork... then hey, if you know me, I hate XC2 spoilers as well, no I hate spoilers when it comes to JRPGs... especially the story driven ones.

It was pretty bad for Nintendo to show her true identity though... that being said... thanks to Youtube's some Xenoblade 2 thumbnail that's literally a spoiler... Xenoblade 2's story really just scratches the surface in trailers...

Hell, even 1.3.0 , one info about New Game + was also a spoiler giveaway, which sucks...

 

[Fenriraga]

I'm still surprised people honestly think Sonic has a chance of being cut.

Like, a CHANCE maybe, but he's honestly a much more likely return than some of Nintendo's own characters, as weird as that is to say out loud.

Keep in mind he was the single highest requested character in Smash all the way up to his inclusion. And is among the few, if not the only, guest character(s) in any fighting game to come back to the same series more than once.

The only way I could ever see Sonic not making it would be if Sega said no. And I don't think that'll happen.

 

[Krysco]

Micaiah would be a light weight character, a bit shorter and with White/Light Magic abilities instead of Swords :D

Potential staff usage too and...I believe she used dark magic in Awakening as a dlc character or whatever she was? Not exactly canon but then neither is Robin being able to use dark magic, Ike lacking sword beams or Lucina fighting like Marth. Plus she's from the totally objective and most definitely not just my bias as heck opinion best game in the series. Throw in some Sothe if truly needed so she's not 'just another Zelda'.

Another thing that I'm actually unsure of

Spoiler: Radiant Dawn spoilers

Given that Micaiah can sing the galdr of release to the medallion, is she capable of holding it too? She's never shown too since it's always with Mist. She never canonically has it but whatever, if she did have it, she could touch people with it to make them go berserk. This is an idea for her in Smash but moreso something I think Mist should've been able to do in PoR and RD as a makeshift berserk staff since she's otherwise not that great of a unit.

 

[Cosmic77]

Potential cuts:
Going off past entries, we've only ever had newcomers get cut () aside from Ice Climbers due to the 3DS and while Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are veterans, they also only got in due to DLC, meaning they were low enough priority to not get into the base game. Same for Doc but without the DLC bit. I have Sonic listed too despite him being in 2 Smash games now because, at the end of the day, his inclusion is not entirely up to Nintendo, same goes for any 3rd party character. And for anyone who argues 'unique moveset', Mewtwo says hi. Planned or not, he was cut from Brawl.

While you are right about newcomers being the only characters to get cut (save for Ice Climbers), I don't think EVERY newcomer can be listed as a potential cut.

Honestly, the only characters I would definitely keep an eye on are full clones, DLC characters, and third-parties. Anyone who doesn't fall into those categories seems unlikely to be cut.

 

[J0eyboi]

This, I feel, is why people have a bigger issue with more FE characters compared to more Pokemon, plus Pokemon is a bigger franchise anyways.

It's far more the latter than the former. Were it not, more people would have a problem with the fact that of the 7? Mario and DK reps, at least 4 play near-identically, with character size and landing options being the main differentiators. That said, part of it could also be that the FE characters are all pretty visually congruent, excepting Corrin and maybe Robin.

Micaiah would be a light weight character, a bit shorter and with White/Light Magic abilities instead of Swords :D

Micaiah is no longer relevant and pretty unpopular; she's not going to make the cut. if we're getting a new FE rep, it's gonna be either Celica, the protagonist of FE switch, or a spin-off character. Also magic is a lot harder to design a full moveset around, and limiting yourself to a character who can only use one kind, the spells of which all look very similar, would just be stupid.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

True. Even if the game is a new entry, it is very likely they will reuse assets from the Smash 4. Some people groan at that idea but that can actually be a good thing that would work in the game's favor because it saves time and resources.

I wonder if there's some half finished characters in the archives. We do know that there's some partially done Rock Pikmin in the data.

 

[?????????????]

On the topic of Mythra, as someone who hasn't yet played Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I know absolutely nothing about her. I didn't even know her name until this thread.

 

[Fenriraga]

On the topic of Mythra, as someone who hasn't yet played Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I know absolutely nothing about her. I didn't even know her name until this thread.

As said before, she's just as important to the game, and Rex, as Pyra is. To go into why would kinda be getting into spoiler territory though.

She's just a bit more of a secret because... Well, in the game she's a secret in a way. Again, spoilers.

 

[Krysco]

While you are right about newcomers being the only characters to get cut (save for Ice Climbers), I don't think EVERY newcomer can listed as a potential cut.

Honestly, the only characters I would definitely keep an eye on are full clones, DLC characters, and third-parties. Anyone who doesn't fall into those categories seems unlikely to be cut.

They're all at least worth being concerned about. Mewtwo was fully unique and yet was cut, people thought for sure that Ike was gonna get cut going into Sm4sh seeing as how Roy got cut before him and yet he made it back and I was sure Wolf was coming back and yet he didn't.

We've never had a retro character cut (again, aside from ICies due to the 3DS) so I think Duck Hunt is safe. SEGA isn't going through a Konami issue atm and is on good terms with Nintendo so I can see Sonic and Bayo coming back. Mac was popular enough to be upgraded from assist trophy to playable character so I don't see him getting cut. Robin was the sole intended rep for Awakening before the dev team got enough time to make Lucina a clone and if Ike came back, I'm sure Robin will too. Rosalina is super popular in the Mario series which is Nintendo's biggest. Megaman and Ryu all depend on Capcom (I believe 2 separate branches of it or something like that?) but I have confidence in them coming back. Moreso Megaman since he was in the base roster. If Bamco is making Smash 5 then I see no reason Pac-Man would be cut, otherwise he's up in the air. Palutena is relevant thanks to Sakurai and I don't see him cutting one of his own precious characters aside from maybe Dark Pit. Villager was thought of for Brawl but a moveset couldn't be figured out. One has been now obviously and Animal Crossing is at least a decent size so I don't see Villager leaving. Shulk, admittedly I don't fully grasp. Is Xenoblade 1st party? If so, I see him as the 'Marth' of the series as many others have pointed out so even if we get more Xenoblade characters, I can see Shulk staying. Lastly, Wii Fit Trainer is pretty much just gut feeling. She wasn't a late developed character like Jr nor is she a clone or a 3rd party so I think she's safe.

It's far more the latter than the former. Were it not, more people would have a problem with the fact that of the 7? Mario and DK reps, at least 4 play near-identically, with character size and landing options being the main differentiators. That said, part of it could also be that the FE characters are all pretty visually congruent, excepting Corrin and maybe Robin.



Micaiah is no longer relevant and pretty unpopular; she's not going to make the cut. if we're getting a new FE rep, it's gonna be either Celica, the protagonist of FE switch, or a spin-off character. Also magic is a lot harder to design a full moveset around, and limiting yourself to a character who can only use one kind, the spells of which all look very similar, would just be stupid.

4? Mario, Luigi, Doc aaaaand...? Even so, 2 of those are part of the original 12, Mario is the biggest franchise of Nintendo and so is expected to have a large portion of the roster and to be fair, some people don't want Doc. At the same time, Luigi and Doc started off as Mario clones just as Roy and Lucina started off as Marth clones and yet as you said, people don't complain as much. Could be the design or the popularity or any other number of reasons.

 

[?????????????]

Also magic is a lot harder to design a full moveset around, and limiting yourself to a character who can only use one kind, the spells of which all look very similar, would just be stupid.

I VERY much disagree. Giving someone a magic moveset is no more difficult than a swordsman with no defined special sword abilities (ie Marth, whose special moves are pretty much all either made-up or borrowed). In fact, I would love more spellcasters.

Micaiah only uses light magic? That's fine. Heal. Burn. Flash so brightly it stuns opponents. Move at the speed of light. Teleport in a flash of light.

...Now, I have doubts that Micaiah would be heavily considered for Smash Bros., but it's definitely not for moveset reasons.

 

[J0eyboi]

Potential staff usage too and...I believe she used dark magic in Awakening as a dlc character or whatever she was? Not exactly canon but then neither is Robin being able to use dark magic, Ike lacking sword beams or Lucina fighting like Marth.

The other two I agree with, but Robin can very much use dark magic. Not as a tactician, sure, but Robin can do and be whatever the **** s/he feels like.

This is an idea for her in Smash but moreso something I think Mist should've been able to do in PoR and RD as a makeshift berserk staff since she's otherwise not that great of a unit.

https://lparchive.org/Fire-Emblem-Path-of-Radiance/3-EYdvl.png

You dare question the Mist?

In all seriousness, that would've been either seriously narratively dissonant or overpowered, for a number of reasons I probably shouldn't talk about in a Smash Switch speculation thread.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's far more the latter than the former. Were it not, more people would have a problem with the fact that of the 7? Mario and DK reps, at least 4 play near-identically, with character size and landing options being the main differentiators. That said, part of it could also be that the FE characters are all pretty visually congruent, excepting Corrin and maybe Robin.

Four?



Mario, Luigi (technically), and Dr. Mario, but everyone else is unique.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

From the past few pages:
A) I'm not sure if X2 and Arms would have been in development long enough / sure-fire successes when Smash was finalizing the roster, so I have my doubts they'll be in the starting lineup. That being said, I'd guess DLC is almost a guarantee if they aren't.

B) The only reason I personally would want Xenoblade X/2 stuff is for more epic stages and music. The characters I could take or leave at this point. Similar feelings about ARMS.

C) Smash has held a pretty firm line about being all-ages, so I'm not sure why people are suddenly hoping this one goes full "T" and puts in provocatively dressed JRPG characters. I mean, people have posted examples of Smash tweaking things to de-sexualize them a bit, and Pyra is MUCH more of a censorship dilemma than a side split on Palutena's gown or underwear on Rosalina, yet those got tweaked. People are right as far as "we can't know until it comes out", but I'm not seeing evidence for leaving the character as is beyond "please don't cover up my scantily-clad video-game crush" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[J0eyboi]

Four?



Mario, Luigi (technically), and Dr. Mario, but everyone else is unique.

Wow, I forgot a lot of characters there. I was referring to Mario, Bowser, Luigi, and DK, though. At least, Mario and Luigi, and Bowser and DK play the same, and Doc I assume plays similarly to Mario, but I'm not sure because so few people play him.

 

[Cosmic77]

Wow, I forgot a lot of characters there. I was referring to Mario, Bowser, Luigi, and DK, though. At least, Mario and Luigi and Bowser and DK play the same.

But Bowser and DK are totally different. I mean, they're both large, and they both have a recovery that involves spinning, but beyond that, there's not much they have in common.

 

[Fenriraga]

Wow, I forgot a lot of characters there. I was referring to Mario, Bowser, Luigi, and DK, though. At least, Mario and Luigi and Bowser and DK play the same.

I... What?

You want to share your reasoning with us?

Bowser and DK are both slow heavyweights, sure, but that is the ONLY similarity they share. Their moves and playstyles could not be any more different. That's like saying King Dedede plays the same as them. Or Ganondorf.

Mario and Luigi can be debated, but Loogie still has to be played differently and has his own personality in how he does things. Plus, Loogie being similar to Mario is kinda his shtick.

 

[Geno Boost]

Unused Petey piranha animations file was found in smash Wiiu
Do you think boss battle will return this time?

 

[Krysco]

The other two I agree with, but Robin can very much use dark magic. Not as a tactician, sure, but Robin can do and be whatever the **** s/he feels like.



https://lparchive.org/Fire-Emblem-Path-of-Radiance/3-EYdvl.png

You dare question the Mist?

In all seriousness, that would've been either seriously narratively dissonant or overpowered, for a number of reasons I probably shouldn't talk about in a Smash Switch speculation thread.

Suppose that point on Robin is true but then by extension, Robin can literally use any weapon type that was present in Awakening (except maybe the stones? I know Morgan could but I don't recall with Robin) and yet their Smash appearance is very clearly their Tactician class.

As for the Mist thing, yeah, it'd be weird seeing as how Mist was super protective of it and for good reason and it'd be a high risk/potentially high reward option for Mist. Her defense is garbage and she doesn't get access to Canto until she class changes so she'd be ending her turn right next to whatever enemy she sent into a frenzy most likely.

And since people are discussing your other point, DK and Bowser competitively in Sm4sh specifically are similar in that they're heavyweight grapplers with poor disadvantage states. But moveset wise they're not very similar.

 

[J0eyboi]

But Bowser and DK are totally different. I mean, they're both large, and they both have a recovery that involves spinning, but beyond that, there's not much they have in common.

They both have stupid kill confirms off grab and are otherwise rewarded heavily for grabbing, they both have ridiculous grab and pivot grab range, they both have lots of arm invuln grounded moves, they both struggle in disadvantage.

 

[Deleted member]

Shulk, admittedly I don't fully grasp. Is Xenoblade 1st party? If so, I see him as the 'Marth' of the series as many others have pointed out so even if we get more Xenoblade chaarcters, I can see Shulk staying.

Xenoblade is, in fact, first party.

 

[Fenriraga]

They both have stupid kill confirms off grab and are otherwise rewarded heavily for grabbing, they both have ridiculous grab and pivot grab range, they both have lots of arm invuln grounded moves, they both struggle in disadvantage.

In Smash 4 and only Smash 4 do they have those kill confirms. Even then, those were part of a patch. DK's kill confirm also works a bit differently from Bowser.

DK has a much better grab game than Bowser last I checked.

Again, armored invincibility was more of a 4 thing. Either way that doesn't make them remotely the same character, by that logic Marth and Ike are extremely similar because they both have a counter. They are also not the only characters to get armor, not by a longshot.

And you seem to be talking purely from a competitive standpoint. Having SLIGHTLY similar quirks in competitive does not make them the same by any means. Design wise, Bowser is meant to tank, and DK is meant to be a good Meteor Smasher. That's their intended logic, anyway.

 

[Troykv]

Potential staff usage too and...I believe she used dark magic in Awakening as a dlc character or whatever she was? Not exactly canon but then neither is Robin being able to use dark magic, Ike lacking sword beams or Lucina fighting like Marth. Plus she's from the totally objective and most definitely not just my bias as heck opinion best game in the series. Throw in some Sothe if truly needed so she's not 'just another Zelda'.

Another thing that I'm actually unsure of

Spoiler: Radiant Dawn spoilers

Given that Micaiah can sing the galdr of release to the medallion, is she capable of holding it too? She's never shown too since it's always with Mist. She never canonically has it but whatever, if she did have it, she could touch people with it to make them go berserk. This is an idea for her in Smash but moreso something I think Mist should've been able to do in PoR and RD as a makeshift berserk staff since she's otherwise not that great of a unit.

I had always like the game play posibilities with Staff and Status Effects in general. But I had already asked someone about how OP would be "berserking" someone. And well... It creates some disgusting results XD

It's far more the latter than the former. Were it not, more people would have a problem with the fact that of the 7? Mario and DK reps, at least 4 play near-identically, with character size and landing options being the main differentiators. That said, part of it could also be that the FE characters are all pretty visually congruent, excepting Corrin and maybe Robin.



Micaiah is no longer relevant and pretty unpopular; she's not going to make the cut. if we're getting a new FE rep, it's gonna be either Celica, the protagonist of FE switch, or a spin-off character. Also magic is a lot harder to design a full moveset around, and limiting yourself to a character who can only use one kind, the spells of which all look very similar, would just be stupid.

Isn't that different to design moves for other weapons because there is design reference for the animations, and magic is more flexible with hit boxes.

And I know Micaiah isn't that relevant now (specially compared with Celica); but someone can always dream...

I VERY much disagree. Giving someone a magic moveset is no more difficult than a swordsman with no defined special sword abilities (ie Marth, whose special moves are pretty much all either made-up or borrowed). In fact, I would love more spellcasters.

Micaiah only uses light magic? That's fine. Heal. Burn. Flash so brightly it stuns opponents. Move at the speed of light. Teleport in a flash of light.

...Now, I have doubts that Micaiah would be heavily considered for Smash Bros., but it's definitely not for moveset reasons.

I appreciate your interest :D

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Micaiah would be a light weight character, a bit shorter and with White/Light Magic abilities instead of Swords :D

Just saying, I'm pretty tired of female characters automatically being lightweight. , and I think , are the only ones who aren't. I mean, is there any reason for , a tall goddess holding a staff and shield, to be lightweight?

 

[Fenriraga]

Just saying, I'm pretty tired of female characters automatically being lightweight. , and I think , are the only ones who aren't. I mean, is there any reason for , a tall goddess holding a staff and shield, to be lightweight?

I think Smash likes to use magic/psychic abilites as a reason for being lightweight more for everyone, not just the females.

Rosalina and Mewtwo are only lightweight because they use their powers to make themselves more agile. I think the same can be said about Palutena, considering her wings, foating when she runs, etc. Heck, one of her customs is meant to make her even MORE lightweight so she can have even more agility.

Ness and Lucas too, to a lesser extent.

 

[Troykv]

Just saying, I'm pretty tired of female characters automatically being lightweight. , and I think , are the only ones who aren't. I mean, is there any reason for , a tall goddess holding a staff and shield, to be lightweight?

Well; females are usually designed as smaller than male characters; isn't my fault. I just was answering the post about that subject compared with the rest of the FE characters.

And yeah; magic properties

 

[LordJackal]

If any one of us understood Sakurai's situation or thinking process, we wouldn't still be scratching our heads about Brawl.

This. We can't go around assuming we know the 'cut-off date' for this roster, or even that there IS one. If he doesn't explicitly say otherwise, we have to consider everything. All we have are hypotheticals, so when it comes to whether or not he knew about Rex, we have to treat it as a possibility.

His situation's also changed every game, we can't assume that because he says there was a cutoff for 4, he's going to use the exact same process this time.