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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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I think it's telling that it's much easier to create a Sony All-Stars scenario, even excluding third-parties, than it would be for Microsoft. After like a half dozen decent choices, it pretty much falls off a cliff.




But yeah that's the reason Banjo had the demand he did during the ballot.
I know that is old information ( looked at the date ), but the way I said it looked like it was new. I was just saying there is a chance for Banjo Kazooie in Smash Brothers, but I should have said it differently.
 
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It depends on the Pokemon game. If we're talking 3rd versions than yeah, few get hyped. But new mainline games often get much anticipation.

I see the concern, but I think it is misplaced. The two games are simply too different.
Yeah, but it's a game series that gets a new installment very frequently if there's no footage shown.

Metroid, on the other hand, was thought to be pretty much dead until E3.

Smash is a once in a console's lifespan thing and leaks start popping all over the internet whenever it's announced (From what I understand, at least - I haven't been through speculation for any previous Smash game).
 

IronTed

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Yeah, but it's a game series that gets a new installment very frequently if there's no footage shown.

Metroid, on the other hand, was thought to be pretty much dead until E3.

Smash is a once in a console's lifespan thing and leaks start popping all over the internet whenever it's announced (From what I understand, at least - I haven't been through speculation for any previous Smash game).
If you mean internet or even core reception, than yeah, an annualized series does receive less hype, to be sure. But I mean hype among the more general crowd, not a more focused one. Prime is more muted among the general crowd compared to the insane reactions it got at E3.

Yeah, I do recall Smash 4 having a lot of hype, easily more than say, X and Y (even if the latter was the bigger release sales wise).
 
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If you mean internet or even core reception, than yeah, an annualized series does receive less hype, to be sure. But I mean hype among the more general crowd, not a more focused one. Prime is more muted among the general crowd.
Fair enough.

Yeah, I do recall Smash 4 having a lot of hype, easily more than say, X and Y (even if the latter was the bigger release sales wise).
The hype matched the quality of the games appearently.
 

Bowserlick

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Make Lucina a costume. Cut Roy, cut Corrin. (Give Corrin's side special to Waddle Dee if he gets in).

If you add a new FE character, make sure it highlights a different aspect of the game (like Robin). Avoid a counter as a down special.

If one cannot resist a counter, make it function differently (such as, converting the strength of the countered attack into the weapon).
 
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What's with this obsession of turning clones into costumes? If you don't like them, just cut them altogether. No need to spite their fans.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Make Lucina a costume. Cut Roy, cut Corrin. (Give Corrin's side special to Waddle Dee if he gets in).

If you add a new FE character, make sure it highlights a different aspect of the game (like Robin). Avoid a counter as a down special.

If one cannot resist a counter, make it function differently (such as, converting the strength of the countered attack into the weapon).
There is literally no reason to cut Corrin, and if Dr. Mario was made a separate character to not alienate fans of his last Smash incarnation, why think a character being degraded to a costume is a good idea?

Also I think we can all agree Mega Man wasn't going anywhere despite these announcements
 

Ghirahilda

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About Smash taking the Spotlight from Other games: Both Smash 4 and Mario Kart 8 got their First trailers revelaed at the same E3 right?
 

Purpski

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For you Banjo Kazooie people who want him in Smash Brothers,

If Banjo were to come for Smash on the Switch I would lose my mind
For you Banjo Kazooie people who want him in Smash Brothers,

I would be pretty hyped if he gets into the roster for Smash on the Switch.
 
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In the next game I just hope they make new skins for Mario like him with Cappy on or something from Mario Odyssey, as well as Link and Zelda having a BOTW costume to fit the Nintendo trend right now. Snake, Ice Climbers, Master Chief, Marshadow and Knuckles would be a nice addition ( I doubt Master Chief and Marshadow will make it in though ). ( I would have loved to see Knuckles in Project M ).
Make Lucina a costume. Cut Roy, cut Corrin.
In my opinion, No.
It is nice to have more characters. Clones do not ruin the game in my opinion and I do not mind them. I also think Corrin is a good edition to Smash Brothers.
 
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N3ON

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Is it bold for me to make the prediction that a Bethesda character will be in the next Smash?

I'm hearing that Bethesda is rather pleased with how their games are selling on the system. In particular Skyrim... *cough* and are planning on supporting it into the foreseeable future with multiplatform and maybe even exclusive titles.

I really really hope it's not the Dragonborn but hell, if he's interesting then I'm down. But B.J Blazcowicz or The Doom Slayer are better choices in my opinion. I think one of those 3 is rather likely.

And maybe even a Ubisoft character as well... Please no Rabbids. Please Rayman.
Where did you hear that Bethesda statement? I haven't run into it.

Doomslayer would be my choice, he's a pretty seminal character in gaming, and Doom does have a history of Nintendo support. Then again of the three, Doom is my series of choice. Of course, Skyrim has been the bigger deal since its inception. It's also the one that crossed over with Nintendo content. And I think Nintendo would be verrrrry hesitant to add anything Wolfenstein to Smash tbh... given its historical and political context.

I know that is old information ( looked at the date ), but the way I said it looked like it was new. I was just saying there is a chance for Banjo Kazooie in Smash Brothers, but I should have said it differently.
Don't worry about it! I remember when that tweet first made waves, I was thrilled. It brought Banjo out of the "never gonna happen" camp to the "very long shot but possible" camp.

Was fortuitous timing as well since it coincided right when the ballot was getting peak attention.
 

PsychoJosh

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Is it bold for me to make the prediction that a Bethesda character will be in the next Smash?
Yes.

Bethesda doesn't really have many characters, at least ones that have personalities. In order for Nintendo to regard a third party as notable I think it would at least have to have a distinct personality. Bethesda's main characters are just player avatars.
 
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PsychoJosh

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Then explain how Sakurai put Robin in Sm4sh.
Or Villager, or Wii Fit Trainer. Yes, I'm with you there.

But the thing about those characters is that they are Nintendo's own properties and they are free to put in whoever they'd like from their own games. Third party characters have considerably stricter criteria for inclusion.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Avatar or not, they're still not beyond specific versions of characters so much as somewhat based upon one version.

There's tons of Links, for instance. It's just a combination of the more adult-like ones in Smash, being most based upon OOT and TP's versions. Same with the other playable Zelda characters bar Young Link and Toon Link. Young Link isn't different from Link in 64 and Melee, both being combinations of various game designs, just using one specific model. Toon Link is based upon his portrayal in 3 games(Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks), who are not all the same person even.

This type of thing has been done before. It's hardly even relevant that it's 1st party. That's just looking for something that's not there. What's important is the character in particular, and yes, a race is a character too. That's how pretty much every Pokemon(Trainer aside) can work. They're based upon particular portrayals, sure, but the games still look at them like just any member of the species, even giving both Pikachu and Jigglypuff descriptions in Smash 64 as the Pokedex entries, like any other species. Pokemon Trainer is the same, just being a basic player trainer, using various quotes that every trainer has. And respectively uses the first known trainer design(the first avatar for Pokemon, based upon Red), and even being compared to a heavily more known trainer around the world, Ash/Satoshi.

I could easily see a Dragonborn in, if that's something they can find that could work into a great moveset. Other things actually holding it back realistically is things like balance, gimmicks, and how the companies feel about the character. Being slightly generic as a species doesn't mean much unless that generic species have very little moveset potential to the developers(like Toad has at this time. Probably is stating to change, but I can understand that view, especially since the character and species in general doesn't exactly have a major gimmick/thing to call their own).
 
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I know Steve would be the Microsoft character to most likely make it into Smash Brothers Switch ( Minecraft is extremely popular and Xbox / Nintendo are allowing cross - play ), but I would take Master Chief over Steve any day.
 

Aurane

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Yes.

Bethesda doesn't really have many characters, at least ones that have personalities. In order for Nintendo to regard a third party as notable I think it would at least have to have a distinct personality. Bethesda's main characters are just player avatars.
So what? We have multiple avatar characters in Smash, and a few characters have created personalities because they're basically statues without them. Like Game and Watch.

The most likely character from Bethesda at the moment, to me, is The Dragonborn, who hails from one of the biggest game series in history. He has a market appearance that can be used in Smash (The Dragonborn that is most recognizable from trailers, etc), so if cosmetics are an issue, it wouldn't be a bad idea to use that alteration, especially considering its well known.
I know Steve would be the Microsoft character to most likely make it into Smash Brothers Switch ( Minecraft is extremely popular and Xbox / Nintendo are allowing cross - play ), but I would take Master Chief over Steve any day.
Master Chief vs Samus yeet
 
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IronTed

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I know Steve would be the Microsoft character to most likely make it into Smash Brothers Switch ( Minecraft is extremely popular and Xbox / Nintendo are allowing cross - play ), but I would take Master Chief over Steve any day.
I know I'm being really selfish, but I really would prefer MC over Steve, purely to see the reaction to his inclusion. I feel it would be legendary.
 

Purpski

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Is it bold for me to make the prediction that a Bethesda character will be in the next Smash?

I'm hearing that Bethesda is rather pleased with how their games are selling on the system. In particular Skyrim... *cough* and are planning on supporting it into the foreseeable future with multiplatform and maybe even exclusive titles.

I really really hope it's not the Dragonborn but hell, if he's interesting then I'm down. But B.J Blazcowicz or The Doom Slayer are better choices in my opinion. I think one of those 3 is rather likely.

And maybe even a Ubisoft character as well... Please no Rabbids. Please Rayman.
Is it bold for me to make the prediction that a Bethesda character will be in the next Smash?

I'm hearing that Bethesda is rather pleased with how their games are selling on the system. In particular Skyrim... *cough* and are planning on supporting it into the foreseeable future with multiplatform and maybe even exclusive titles.

I really really hope it's not the Dragonborn but hell, if he's interesting then I'm down. But B.J Blazcowicz or The Doom Slayer are better choices in my opinion. I think one of those 3 is rather likely.

And maybe even a Ubisoft character as well... Please no Rabbids. Please Rayman.
I know Steve would be the Microsoft character to most likely make it into Smash Brothers Switch ( Minecraft is extremely popular and Xbox / Nintendo are allowing cross - play ), but I would take Master Chief over Steve any day.
Master Chief in the roster for Smash on the switch would be dope. Would much rather have him then some blocky character that's basically a meme at this point.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Where did you hear that Bethesda statement? I haven't run into it.

Doomslayer would be my choice, he's a pretty seminal character in gaming, and Doom does have a history of Nintendo support. Then again of the three, Doom is my series of choice. Of course, Skyrim has been the bigger deal since its inception. It's also the one that crossed over with Nintendo content. And I think Nintendo would be verrrrry hesitant to add anything Wolfenstein to Smash tbh... given its historical and political context.
I heard that they were pleased with sales in a YouTube video so that could be false, but they definitely have plans for the Switch moving forward.
Yes.

Bethesda doesn't really have many characters, at least ones that have personalities. In order for Nintendo to regard a third party as notable I think it would at least have to have a distinct personality. Bethesda's main characters are just player avatars.
Well, we don't really know what the criteria for 3rd party inclusions really is. I mean if it's an interesting choice then it's an interesting choice. The only real criteria we know of is that one of the companies has to approach the other for inclusion. I think any of them is plenty interesting, but I feel The Doom Slayer is the best choice. We'll see but I don't think they won't add in an interesting Character just because they're a player avatar. Doesn't seem like they'd just pass on a cool Character for that reason.
 

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It would be nothing short of incredible to see Bethesda characters in Smash. Especially with how for decades Bethesda has avoided Nintendo like the plague.

Although if we're talking 3rd party characters from Western publishers, something from Ubisoft feels more likely. Either way it definitely would be neat, thus far Smash has no 3rd party characters from Western publishers if I am not mistaken.
 

Purpski

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It would be nothing short of incredible to see Bethesda characters in Smash. Especially with how for decades Bethesda has avoided Nintendo like the plague.

Although if we're talking 3rd party characters from Western publishers, something from Ubisoft feels more likely. Either way it definitely would be neat, thus far Smash has no 3rd party characters from Western publishers if I am not mistaken.
Waiting for that rabbid character lol
 

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So what? We have multiple avatar characters in Smash, and a few characters have created personalities because they're basically statues without them. Like Game and Watch.
Yes, but as I said, those are Nintendo's own characters, and since Smash is their game they have free reign over adding anyone from their own properties, even player avatars. However, when it comes to third party characters, they have to consider their options carefully as they can't just pick anyone from any game. So naturally they reserve their choices for the most notable characters from other companies.

I don't see why they would put Bethesda high on that list, as there are other companies with more well-known, personality-filled characters that could get their time. On top of that, they tend to lean towards Japanese characters. So a western company with a generic "player avatar"-type character isn't going to be high on their list of third party priorities.
 
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PsychoJosh

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Well, we don't really know what the criteria for 3rd party inclusions really is. I mean if it's an interesting choice then it's an interesting choice. The only real criteria we know of is that one of the companies has to approach the other for inclusion. I think any of them is plenty interesting, but I feel The Doom Slayer is the best choice. We'll see but I don't think they won't add in an interesting Character just because they're a player avatar. Doesn't seem like they'd just pass on a cool Character for that reason.
Who is Doom Slayer? Do you mean the Doomguy? I suppose that's a better choice than the dragonborn, but not by much.

Doomguy is a "character" only because he's persisted as the player character in Doom since 1992. But the thing is, he just isn't that interesting. Smash has characters with weapons but that isn't their sole trait, nor the only thing that defines them as a character. Even with all the player avatar-type characters in Smash they still did their best to flesh out their personalities through their animations and callbacks to their source material (WFT constantly telling herself motivational yoga slogans and G&W sitting on the ground exhausted show that they have personalities behind their concepts). What's Doomguy's personality like? I'm legitimately curious how they could flesh his personality out in Smash, because they don't just copy and paste character assets from a game and call it a day.
 

N3ON

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I forgot to add this earlier, but I think the Bethesda character that'd fit best in Smash is Vault Boy. He's also a mascot of sorts, though more for just the series than Bethesda as a whole.



But he hasn't appeared on a Nintendo system so I'd think others likelier for the time being.

I heard that they were pleased with sales in a YouTube video so that could be false, but they definitely have plans for the Switch moving forward.
Very nice. ^_^

And it wouldn't surprise me if those games fared well. The consumer base seems receptive to third-parties, and Bethesda's titles spent a considerable amount of time towards the top of the eShop charts, for what that's worth. Was just curious as to any official statements.

Who is Doom Slayer? Do you mean the Doomguy? I suppose that's a better choice than the dragonborn, but not by much.

Doomguy is a "character" only because he's persisted as the player character in Doom since 1992. But the thing is, he just isn't that interesting. Smash has characters with weapons but that isn't their sole trait, nor the only thing that defines them as a character. Even with all the player avatar-type characters in Smash they still did their best to flesh out their personalities through their animations and callbacks to their source material (WFT constantly telling herself motivational yoga slogans and G&W sitting on the ground exhausted show that they have personalities behind their concepts). What's Doomguy's personality like? I'm legitimately curious how they could flesh his personality out in Smash, because they don't just copy and paste character assets from a game and call it a day.
Doomslayer is an angry gent who has no time for your ****.

Also, personality or lack thereof is an imaginary parameter for 3rd parties.
 

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Who is Doom Slayer? Do you mean the Doomguy? I suppose that's a better choice than the dragonborn, but not by much.
Doomguy was never actually named Doomguy. His official name is the Doom Marine but the Demons of Hell refer to him as the Doom Slayer. Which is a kick ass name, to be honest.
Doomguy is a "character" only because he's persisted as the player character in Doom since 1992. But the thing is, he just isn't that interesting. Smash has characters with weapons but that isn't their sole trait, nor the only thing that defines them as a character. Even with all the player avatar-type characters in Smash they still did their best to flesh out their personalities through their animations and callbacks to their source material (WFT constantly telling herself motivational yoga slogans and G&W sitting on the ground exhausted show that they have personalities behind their concepts). What's Doomguy's personality like? I'm legitimately curious how they could flesh his personality out in Smash, because they don't just copy and paste character assets from a game and call it a day.
Doom Slayer as a character is a a no nonsense ass kicking Demon Hunter. In 2016 Doom in particular he was portrayed as a rebellious soldier who's only goal was to wipe out any trace of the Dimension of Hell that was present before they could wipe out humanity. He constantly disobeyed the man who "saved" him and even totally destroyed his entire life work. Why? Because it was a power source that fed directly from Hell. He's relentless, he's rebellious, and he's brutal. There's enough of a personality there. It's like Link. Link is, before all else; up until Breath of the Wild, a blank slate of a character that was only meant to portray the player in the game.

Besides, a moveset isn't JUST based on personality. It's not like a character can be a blank slate personality wise and thus not possibly have a good moveset. Doom Slayer is a rather shallow Character yes, but his utilities and his weaponry, and in turn his brutality, can all be presented in his moveset to show just what kind of Character he is.

Besides all that, Doom Slayer is iconic enough to warrant a place alongside Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Cloud, Ryu, Snake, and definitely Bayonetta.
 
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AwesomeAussie27

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Did I just see someone expecting a Just Dance character?

Wut.
 

PsychoJosh

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Doomguy was never actually named Doomguy. His official name is the Doom Marine but the Demons of Hell refer to him as the Doom Slayer. Which is a kick *** name, to be honest.

Doom Slayer as a character is a a no nonsense *** kicking Demon Hunter. In 2016 Doom in particular he was portrayed as a rebellious soldier who's only goal was to wipe out any trace of the Dimension of Hell that was present before they could wipe out humanity. He constantly disobeyed the man who "saved" him and even totally destroyed his entire life work. Why? Because it was a power source that fed directly from Hell. He's relentless, he's rebellious, and he's brutal. There's enough of a personality there. It's like Link. Link is, before all else; up until Breath of the Wild, a blank slate of a character that was only meant to portray the player in the game.

Besides, a moveset isn't JUST based on personality. It's not like a character can be a blank slate personality wise and thus not possibly have a good moveset. Doom Slayer is a rather shallow Character yes, but his utilities and his weaponry, and in turn his brutality, can all be presented in his moveset to show just what kind of Character he is.

Besides all that, Doom Slayer is iconic enough to warrant a place alongside Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Cloud, Ryu, Snake, and definitely Bayonetta.
Okay, fair enough. I just asked because I didn't know much about him in comparison to, say, the dragonborn.

I also got Doom on PC a while ago but I haven't been able to start into it just yet.

Also, personality or lack thereof is an imaginary parameter for 3rd parties.
I completely disagree.
 
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I mean. . .personality is/was literally one of Sakurai's criteria for character choices.

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/26/sakurai-on-character-choices/
  1. The character must display personality in their game

  2. It’s important to have something only that character can do.

  3. Potential development issues, and game balance is also taken into some consideration

  4. Distribution among the franchises is also taken into consideration.
This is, of course, from 9 years ago. But I don't think he have any evidence that his opinion has changed that wouldn't be speculation.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I mean. . .personality is/was literally one of Sakurai's criteria for character choices.

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/26/sakurai-on-character-choices/

This is, of course, from 9 years ago. But I don't think he have any evidence that his opinion has changed that wouldn't be speculation.
Mind you, it doesn't mean they have to be vibrant, just actually have a personality. Flat characters still have one. Ryu, for instance, is extremely flat with very little personality to begin with. He's in there. Mario and Link are hardly vibrant characters either(Toon Link is the first one to show any real personality in an official Nintendo game, while the rest only did so via spin-offs Comics/TV Shows/etc.)

So he's not looking for some big thing, just a little bit.
 
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