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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Wyoming

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I really don't think we should get our hopes up for a season two.

Smash is a different beast because it's not being handled in-house. Since the beginning of Smash 4 development, the entire Sora studio and a boatload of Bandai Namco staff have been on lease to make a game for Nintendo. That's seven years of those employees working on a Nintendo project. At some point, Bandai Namco will want to put their talent on something else, and Sora is likely already looking into other projects post-Smash.

Unless the first season sells way beyond expectations and Nintendo sees a second season as a worthy enough investment to either A) try and keep all these team members hired on, or B) migrate Smash production to a new team, a second season is a longshot. Especially since Sakurai has already stated that with each character released, his staff is going to get smaller and smaller.
They can rehire the same people they laid off near the end. It happens in many industries that people are laid off due to low production/workload so they can claim benefits, but are rehired when production is high and they need workers.

Obviously the team will be smaller since near the end they'd be focusing on one character and a stage. But wave 2 is an entirely different project than wave 1.
 
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D

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Ugh, I just lost all of the work that I did on my YTP post-preview
The full one might not be out for the end of the thread now! :sadeyes:
 

Cosmic77

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I mean, one's a game made so even 4 year olds can beat it and focuses exclusively on a grand singleplayer adventure while the other is a competitive fighting game. While you're not wrong, the comparison doesn't exactly work
How so? You don't think people would shell out big bucks for more Odyssey content?

Regardless of the game's difficulty, I think Odyssey is capable of selling more DLC content than Ultimate, or at least it would a few months ago when it was younger.
 

Dee Dude

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I don’t get why people think Waluigi will get promoted in a second wave just because of his outcry, and this is coming from a fellow supporter.

Ridley sure didn’t get promoted away from being a Pyrosphere boss in Smash 4.

If anything, Waluigi will be a solid lock for the next game.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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How so? You don't think people would shell out big bucks for more Odyssey content?

Regardless of the game's difficulty, I think Odyssey is capable of selling more DLC content than Ultimate, or at least it would a few months ago when it was younger.
I'm not arguing it wouldn't sell, but it's a harder sell as they're both completely different games with different genres and target audiences. Because Mario is more, well, kiddy and catered to the young-ins, that'd mean you'd have a kid go "Mommy mommy can we buy this extra world that ate up a lot of development time and resources for whatever.99?" and judging from Kirby Star Allies' handling of DLC, which is another game that's primarily meant for the young-ins, it seems Nintendo doesn't like the idea of charging more money in the games primarily meant for kids. As Ultimate is a game focused on both casual fans but also hardcore fans who play the game competitively for prize money and ****, there's a larger hardcore audience who would be guaranteed to buy the DLC
 

staindgrey

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How so? You don't think people would shell out big bucks for more Odyssey content?

Regardless of the game's difficulty, I think Odyssey is capable of selling more DLC content than Ultimate, or at least it would a few months ago when it was younger.
DLC is interesting. Every situation is different. But ultimately, unless a game is made with microtransactions and "games as a service" in mind, DLC makes a very small fraction of the revenue a full game release makes. But, it's also a significantly smaller investment. So when a game's development starts to wrap up, the publisher needs to decide if they want to A) keep staff on to make some guaranteed but much, much smaller sales, or B) move staff on to another project that, while a much more significant investment, will yield bigger profits in the future.

I imagine they didn't work on much Odyssey DLC because they wanted to move them onto another Mario game. Meanwhile, games like Smash, Mario Kart and Zelda that typically only get a "once a console generation" release were afforded more time to make more content and extend the games' lives.

So, if nothing else, take the lack of Odyssey paid DLC as a soft confirmation that more is coming from that development team sooner rather than later.
 

Just a penguin

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I'm not arguing it wouldn't sell, but it's a harder sell as they're both completely different games with different genres and target audiences. Because Mario is more, well, kiddy and catered to the young-ins, that'd mean you'd have a kid go "Mommy mommy can we buy this extra world that ate up a lot of development time and resources for whatever.99?" and judging from Kirby Star Allies' handling of DLC, which is another game that's primarily meant for the young-ins, it seems Nintendo doesn't like the idea of charging more money in the games primarily meant for kids. As Ultimate is a game focused on both casual fans but also hardcore fans who play the game competitively for prize money and ****, there's a larger hardcore audience who would be guaranteed to buy the DLC
Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U is a game that no one could argue is not aimed for kids, but it had DLC. Unless Nintendo changed its mind, which is entirely possible, nothing states that Nintendo morally objects to adding DLC to kids games.
 

staindgrey

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Here we go! MK11 time! King Sonnn DeDeDoo King Sonnn DeDeDoo , you hyped?

Also if they cut Mileena from the game I will cut someone here.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U is a game that no one could argue is not aimed for kids, but it had DLC. Unless Nintendo changed its mind, which is entirely possible, nothing states that Nintendo morally objects to adding DLC to kids games.
I'm aware and they also made DLC for Mario in the past, but as I casually mentioned, people expect new worlds from potential DLC, I don't think people realize how much resources and manhours get used up for that kind of stuff in game development
 

Cosmic77

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DLC is interesting. Every situation is different. But ultimately, unless a game is made with microtransactions and "games as a service" in mind, DLC makes a very small fraction of the revenue a full game release makes. But, it's also a significantly smaller investment. So when a game's development starts to wrap up, the publisher needs to decide if they want to A) keep staff on to make some guaranteed but much, much smaller sales, or B) move staff on to another project that, while a much more significant investment, will yield bigger profits in the future.

I imagine they didn't work on much Odyssey DLC because they wanted to move them onto another Mario game. Meanwhile, games like Smash, Mario Kart and Zelda that typically only get a "once a console generation" release were afforded more time to make more content and extend the games' lives.

So, if nothing else, take the lack of Odyssey paid DLC as a soft confirmation that more is coming from that development team sooner rather than later.
I suppose franchises/games that have big plans in the near future wouldn't be concerned about DLC. Makes sense why Mario Kart 8 got DLC and not 3D World (although this doesn't really explain BotW, since Zelda usually gets at least two big titles per console, with the Wii U being an exception. Feels like they're always working on the next entry.)
 

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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They do get smaller, but smaller and smaller with each new release implies that they're winding down production.
Even if he said such, that doesn't mean that they can't refresh things by re-hiring team members. It's another form of protocol.
If Odyssey couldn't get paid DLC, nothing is guaranteed for Ultimate.
Ehhh, to be fair, a lot of ideas for paid DLC are likely to come up in an Odyssey sequel. Not quite the same case as Smash Ultimate.
 

RandomAce

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So, Boruto's in? Is that a bad thing?
Folks, Smash has found it’s competition in terms of speculation.

No, but a lot of people were not happy with Boruto, and people gave a lot of “reasons” about why Boruto wouldn’t get in, even though Boruto wasn’t as unlikely as they made him out to be. People were at least happy that he wasn’t considered part of the Naruto roster and is considered his own so that another Naruto character can get in like Sakura or Madara. In terms of other Naruto characters that were leaked today, most wanted Madara as the Naruto villain but were dissapointed that Kaguya got in instead and avoided the clue that her VA stating that she was going to have a role in said game a couple days prior.

Jump Force speculation is wild. Jojo, Dio, and Tsuna are like the King K. Rool, Isaac, and Geno of that game. There’s a theory about there only being 12 characters left (including the 4 characters already leaked) and another stating that there were at least 20 more. There were also theories about how Dragon Ball, One Piece have 6 characters and that Naruto is also gonna have 6 as well since they are all the most advertised series, but since Boruto is considered his own series, people are arguing that there is one more character from Naruto, and...

Oh boy. Jump Force is literally Shonen Anime Smash Bros when it comes to pre-release hype and speculation, I can go on and on, but I keep getting Smash flashbacks.
 
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staindgrey

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They really changed the hell out of Skarlet's design. I love it.
 

Diddy Kong

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I don’t get why people think Waluigi will get promoted in a second wave just because of his outcry, and this is coming from a fellow supporter.

Ridley sure didn’t get promoted away from being a Pyrosphere boss in Smash 4.

If anything, Waluigi will be a solid lock for the next game.
That's what I feel as well. Daisy being in Smash kinda solified this. If Isaac can also join, am actually down for the idea.
 

staindgrey

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I suppose franchises/games that have big plans in the near future wouldn't be concerned about DLC. Makes sense why Mario Kart 8 got DLC and not 3D World (although this doesn't really explain BotW, since Zelda usually gets at least two big titles per console, with the Wii U being an exception. Feels like they're always working on the next entry.)
Wii U isn't the only exception. You can't count Twilight Princess as both a Gamecube and Wii game. Gotta pick one.:smash:

Plus Majora's Mask was made with the remains of Ocarina of Time. The only console generation after NES that truly saw two brand new independent Zelda games developed for it was the Gamecube.
 
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Wii U isn't the only exception. You can't count Twilight Princess as both a Gamecube and Wii game. Gotta pick one.:smash:

Plus Majora's Mask was made with the remains of Ocarina of Time. The only console generation after NES that truly saw two brand new independent Zelda games developed for it was the Gamecube.
What about the CD-I Zelda games; Wand of Gamelon and Zelda's Adventure?
 

staindgrey

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GUYS. JENNIFER HALE IS IN MORTAL KOMBAT 11!!!

Oh and so is Ronda Rousey. Neat.

Beta for March 28th, Skarlet is back, Baraka is back, and Geras looks ****ing brutal.

I love Mortal Kombat.
 
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If anything, Waluigi will be a solid lock for the next game.
I say this as someone who's wanted Waluigi since the Brawl days....

....never getting my hopes up again.
Waluigi is going to stay as an Assist until the end of time. No amount of outcry will change that.
 

staindgrey

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Jump Force speculation is wild. Jojo, Dio, and Tsuna are like the King K. Rool, Isaac, and Geno of that game. There’s a theory about there only being 12 characters left (including the 4 characters already leaked) and another stating that there were at least 20 more. There were also theories about how Dragon Ball, One Piece have 6 characters and that Naruto is also gonna have 6 as well since they are all the most advertised series, but since Boruto is considered his own series, people are arguing that there is one more character from Naruto, and...

Oh boy. Jump Force is literally Shonen Anime Smash Bros when it comes to pre-release hype and speculation, I can go on and on, but I keep getting Smash flashbacks.
All I want to know is if Kenshin is getting more reps than just Kenshin and Shishio this time.

I already know the answer is 'no' but give me some hope.
 

Opossum

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I say this as someone who's wanted Waluigi since the Brawl days....

....never getting my hopes up again.
Waluigi is going to stay as an Assist until the end of time. No amount of outcry will change that.
I'm of the opinion that he's bound to get in eventually. Whether that's a potential Ultimate Wave 2 or way down the line, I don't know. But he'll get in eventually.
 
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You mean like how Ridley is never gonna happen because Sakurai said he was too big?
Are you seriously comparing Waluigi to Ridley?

We got a ****ing PLANT over him....it's over.
(Note, nothing against Piranha Plant; I am waiting impatiently to try it out)
 

TMNTSSB4

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I'm of the opinion that he's bound to get in eventually. Whether that's a potential Ultimate Wave 2 or way down the line, I don't know. But he'll get in eventually.
inb4 Sakurai ends up making sure Waluigi never gets in the game
 

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Though speaking of characters that'd never happen, I had a rare Smash-related dream last night.

Carl Fredricksen from Up was revealed as "Brave." He came with a Paradise Falls stage.

The worst part is that this wasn't even the first time I dreamed Carl Fredricksen was playable in Smash.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Though speaking of characters that'd never happen, I had a rare Smash-related dream last night.

Carl Fredricksen from Up was revealed as "Brave." He came with a Paradise Falls stage.

The worst part is that this wasn't even the first time I dreamed Carl Fredricksen was playable in Smash.
It actually makes too much sense. He fits the build, size and all

And the codename kinda makes sense, when you remember the name of another film, from the same studio.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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Are you seriously comparing Waluigi to Ridley?

We got a ****ing PLANT over him....it's over.
(Note, nothing against Piranha Plant; I am waiting impatiently to try it out)
tbf...Piranha Plant is a main Mario character and Waluigi isn’t (main title squad...plus Doc cause Sakurai didn’t want him to be an alt)
 

Diem

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For that challenge, I used three particular things.
Great Autoheal
Additional Midair Jump
Shulk

Great Autoheal has you constantly healing 5%, which keeps down your percent throughout the climb and fights.

The Additional Midair Jump skill makes many of the boss fights much easier, as it is easier to escape their attacks. Giga Bowser and Ganon in particular are jokes with AMJ.

Shulk's Shield art helped me out a lot in the final fight. Since you can activate it during hitstun, it can make for a good way to get out of attacks without dying.

Another thing that helps is that the Heart Containers given after boss fights will stick around if you decide not to take them. So if you do well on a particular boss, you can wait to pick up the heart later.
Ah, Great Autoheal. I'll try that. I don't need it for the first two phases--there's plenty of healing items to make that bearable. But the actual final fight is a pretty rough endurance, going on for several minutes with all kinds of crazy attacks that you have to dodge, especially in the second half where they get even crazier.

It really is just that second half of the final phase that gets me tripped up. If you pause the game and select "Quit," you can then select "Rematch" and start the final phase over, but that doesn't count for the challenge, even if you beat it without getting KO'd. Because I did do that: get KO'd, quit, hit rematch, then won without getting KO'd, but the challenge was like "Nah."

Great Autoheal might solve that problem. I was using the optimal Dark Samus loadout before, and then I started using Akuma because it does so much damage, but I guess I'll focus more on endurance now. Thanks.

They do get smaller, but smaller and smaller with each new release implies that they're winding down production.

But looking at Smash 4's DLC schedule, it's obvious now that post-launch of Smash 4, Nintendo realized that the Wii U was a sinking ship they couldn't save, and they kept their Smash development staff together to begin work on the next game on their next console. This didn't happen after Melee or Brawl; typically their superteam of developers moves onto other work afterward. Smash 4's DLC, particularly the latter half, was likely a direct result of the decision to begin work on Ultimate so soon, as they could use and reuse their work on characters like Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, etc. for the next game.

This is simply my observation, but that sort of perfect storm isn't likely to happen again because, to be blunt, DLC doesn't make the same amount of money that the main game makes, and keeping that staff around to work on new characters over a year post-release when they're not in-house is a huge ask. I seriously doubt Nintendo is keeping them on for another Smash game like they did last time, so DLC would have to sell astronomically well to cause Nintendo to go against the better business decision. Like, a 70+% purchase rate or something ludicrous.
I'd say the recognized the sinking ship by the end of 2015, since that's when Sakurai says that plans for Ultimate were drawn up. I think Nintendo hoped that Smash would save the Wii U in some form, but it didn't do that as well as one might expect (Smash Wii U's lifetime sales have already been outsold by Ultimate), hence why a year after the game came out Nintendo realized that maybe they could try again so that Smash 4 wasn't going to be Smash's legacy for 6 or more years.

However, apparently getting the licenses for the third-party characters was a struggle, so I wouldn't go as far to say that the DLC for Smash 4 was done with the idea that it would be easily put into the next game. The veteran characters, sure. Sakurai noticed how few characters remained to add back to the roster, and how many people missed the ones that were left out, so he seized the opportunity to retain everyone and bring back the old ones. But the third-party characters are always in the air, depending on the attitudes of the other parties.

Most people agree that it was Square Enix who were difficult to work with for Ultimate, and that Cloud almost didn't come back. If that didn't happen, then there'd be no "EVERYONE IS HERE!" and would've changed the entire nature of the game. EVERYONE IS HERE!* *except for Cloud would've been really stupid. And I imagine that Sakurai knew that when he first worked with them, based on how there's only two FF7 tracks in Smash 4, so I bet those negotiations to get Cloud back again were a bit harrowing for him, since the entire point of the project hinged on all the characters being there.
 

staindgrey

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Are you seriously comparing Waluigi to Ridley?

We got a ****ing PLANT over him....it's over.
(Note, nothing against Piranha Plant; I am waiting impatiently to try it out)
Can be applied to Ridley before he got in.

"We got a ****ing WII FIT TRAINER over him..."
"We got a ****ing DUCK HUNT DOG over him..."
"We got a ****ing HOT TOPIC PIT over him..."

Just saying.
 

Noipoi

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Don't you love it when you plan a goodbye thread image but then your program decides to freak out and your settings are messed up to the point where you can't draw comfortably?

Cuz I don't.
 
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