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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Swamp Sensei

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And electricity and explosions. Why is everyone so sour and cynical?
It's because you jump on most opinions you don't agree with.

It's attitude vs attitude honestly.





So folks, chances of Dillon being added?
 

Tree Gelbman

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I'd love Dillon.

It'd be neat to see him with Sonic in his announcement trailer too.

Though nothing will ever top the ''Lightweight!" savagery of Palutena running past Sonic.
 
D

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I actually made an alternate moveset for Kirby, Keeping only 3 moves the same.

Jab Combo: Same

Up-Tilt: Leaf Uppercut. Taken from the Leaf copy ability from Kirby’s Return to Dream Land, Kirby does a quick uppercut using a pile of leaves, visually similar to Bayo’s Smashes. It’s very quick, but quite low in knockback.

Side Tilt: Broom Clean. Kirby uses a broom from the long forgotten Clean copy ability from KDL3. He swipes in front of him. It has low damage but has a windbox

Down Tilt: Balloon Burst. Kirby brings Triple Deluxe’s Circus to town! He makes a balloon and inflates it until it pops. Like in TD, it can change shape, though it has no impact on damage.

Dash Attack: Burning Dash. From more games than I can count, Fire’s dash attack/ Burning’s attack returns from Melee! It functions just as it does in the games, sending Kirby quite a bit further forward and dealing some Fire damage to whoever it hits.


Neutral Air: Twinkle Star. Same

Front/Back Air: Freezer Sparkle. From Ice Kirby’s midair attack in most Kirby Games, Kirby spews snow around him and spins rapidly. At higher percents it can freeze.

Up Air: Needle Stab. Coming from the rather forgettable Needle copy ability, Kirby stabs at the air above him.

Down Air: Stone. Near 1-to-1 his old Down-B from midair.

Up Smash: Geyser. Taken From Water from RTDL, it has a long hitbox right above Kirby.

Side Smash: Hammer. Similar to his old Side-Special, it does a lot of damage but has large lag.

Down Smash: Mirror Split: Mirror Kirby from Super Star and Robobot’s signature attack. Kirby has two Mirror images appear on both sides to deal damage. There’s decent range as well as invincibility frames while attacking


Neutral-B: Inhale. Changing this would be insane

Side B: Poison Ride. Using the Poison ability from Robobot, Kirby rides around on a Toxic pile of sludge like in Sonic’s Spin Dash, Yoshi's Egg Ride, and similar attacks. It’s slower than those attacks, but it leaves behind puddles of poison that deal damage.

Up B: Missile. Using the aforementioned Missile ability from Amazing Mirror, Kirby turns into a Missile in what can only be described as a supercharged variant of Villager’s Up B. Missile Kirby can dart around the stage quite easily, but he’s very difficult to control and he has no brakes.

Down B: Unstable Formula. Using the Doctor Copy ability from Robobot, Kirby starts to make a potion, randomly selected from four. It takes a few seconds to charge, but after that he can use it whenever. The fire one does the most damage, but has the smallest hitbox. The ice one has a larger hitbox and can Freeze, but deals less damage. The Electric one has 4 projectiles fall out of the bottle. Each projectile goes far, but does less damage. An opponent can get hit by multiple projectiles, if they touch all 4 it’s almost as much damage as the fire attack. The healing potion appears very infrequently, but heals 30%.

Final Smash: Hypernova. Using the Hypernova ability that debuted in Triple Deluxe, Kirby turns a rainbow color and starts inhaling rapidly, attempting to consume anything "close" to him (Close is about half of Palutena's Temple). If Kirby inhales someone, they take a lot of damage. Afterwards, Kirby spits out a giant star, which gets bigger depending on how many things he inhaled.

Please provide critisicm and ways it can be improved.
I'm not a huge fan of changing characters up like this, so I'd go for smaller edits in general. But the one thing I want from Kirby is for his Forward Air to be Double Kick from the Fighter ability, the one where he kicks twice to send out a mid ranged energy projectile. That works for your moveset too since the Forward and Back Airs are the same.
 

PeridotGX

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I'm not a huge fan of changing characters up like this, so I'd go for smaller edits in general. But the one thing I want from Kirby is for his Forward Air to be Double Kick from the Fighter ability, the one where he kicks twice to send out a mid ranged energy projectile. That works for your moveset too since the Forward and Back Airs are the same.
Yeah, I don't think he needs a complete overhaul, this was mostly for fun.
 
D

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Yeah, I don't think he needs a complete overhaul, this was mostly for fun.
I mean, a few of the things in there are really interesting, namely moving his hammer to either a Neutral Air or Forward Smash to make room for a better and more unique side special. I like the Fighter Double Kick Forward Air idea for a similar reasons, since they buff Kirby and make him more interestingwithout straying too far from what he is now.

Edit: The water geyser and needle things are cool too, since the flip kicks are kind of overused.
 
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MrReyes96

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Dillon would be great, especcially if he has tower defense based moveset
Setting up turrets and traps
 
D

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Like to know I'm not the only one.
I highly respect your kind. You guys are quite silent for being the majority.

I mean I am a competitive player, but casual 1v1 rounds are fun.
Despite my mains, I am not a try-hard. I will play low tiers and bottom tiers.
Hey now, an Assist trophy is still way better than nothing.

Just ask Issac. :ohwell:
Poor Issac indeed.....
It would be nice to see Dillon become a fighter though.
 

Icedragonadam

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Dillon would be great. He's one of the few frontrunners for new Nintendo IP IMO.

And already 8 pages left already, slow down guys!
 

TheLastJinjo

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It's because you jump on most opinions you don't agree with.
I asked a question about what people would like to see and immediately people used it as an opportunity to pout about characters. If I'm jumping on things it's because all I see anymore is people complaining. Complaining about how Rex looks stupid and Bayonetta doesn't belong in Super Smash Bros and Lucario is too generic, and Ganondorf is too flexible, and clones should be cut.

I was really trying to start a positive discussion, so that's why I'm upset. That's why I jumped on them. They're not being sour and cynical BECAUSE I jumped on them. You've reversed the causality.
 
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AlphaSSB

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So folks, chances of Dillon being added?
Dillon's chances are a solid 'Decent'.

He had two games during Smash 4's development, and he has a new one slated for this year. Plus, since they're probably using Smash Wii U assets, he already has a model and animations to work with, so the time to make him would be a bit less.

However, I don't think it'll be enough for him.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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I asked a question about what people would like to see and immediately people used it as an opportunity to pout about characters. If I'm jumping on things it's because all I see anymore is people complaining. Complaining about how Rex looks stupid and Bayonetta doesn't belong in Super Smash Bros and Lucario is too generic, and Ganondorf is too flexible, and clones should be cut.

I was really trying to start a positive discussion, so that's why I'm upset. That's why I jumped on them. They're not being sour and cynical BECAUSE I jumped on them. You've reversed the causality.
You asked about character changes and a lot of people don't like the way Ganondorf is represented, so they gave their opinnion.

I've honestly been trying not to talk about my opinnions on here too much because you check the last 50 or so pages on this thread and it's people just bashing others opinnions back and forth with no reason but not really liking them. I'm more excited when we have actually game context to talk about and back up then just, here's my idea but also here's why I don't like your idea and thus it is wrong :/
 

Roberk

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Buff Ike stays.

PoR Ike is a wimp. Does he even lift bro?
Being a "wimp" makes him better IMO, I like characters who are working and struggling. Buff Ike is when he reaches his goal, but it loses the appeal of the young guy going against the odds. Plus, PoR Ike is simply more popular.
Buff Ike isn't going anywhere. Ike's whole thing is that he's a burly swordsman, so the buff design is definitely going to remain since it fits the concept better. I could see skinny Ike being an alternate though.
The PoR design also works for the burly swordsman design since Ike is young and inexperienced. He is brash so his attacks are hard but not refined, playing into his style in Smash. I like Buff Ike ("We like Ike!") but I want to see PoR Ike back in the game and there's likely not enough space for both.
 
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Arcanir

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It's because you jump on most opinions you don't agree with.

It's attitude vs attitude honestly.





So folks, chances of Dillon being added?
Pretty decent due to being a character from a new IP, both of which having a decent amount of popularity and Nintendo pushing it somewhat through their directs. It's not too high of course due to the limitations of being from a small franchise, but it's enough that I think there's a chance he could break out.

Personally, he's one of my underdog favorites for potential newcomers. He has a great design, and having played his game I feel he'd be an enjoyable character to play around with.
 
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Gumzilla

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I don't see why Ganondorf's move set doesn't make sense. He uses dark magic combined with brute strength.
I mean Ganondorf is the King of Evil who uses swords, energy balls, flies around, turns into a giant pig and many other things! Ganondorf could be so much more than a Falcon clone!
 

LancerStaff

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I asked a question about what people would like to see and immediately people used it as an opportunity to pout about characters. If I'm jumping on things it's because all I see anymore is people complaining. Complaining about how Rex looks stupid and Bayonetta doesn't belong in Super Smash Bros and Lucario is too generic, and Ganondorf is too flexible, and clones should be cut.

I was really trying to start a positive discussion, so that's why I'm upset. That's why I jumped on them. They're not being sour and cynical BECAUSE I jumped on them. You've reversed the causality.
There’s no point in arguing with these people. Once they decide to attack you instead your argument they’re not going to budge.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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Zero for Smash?
I'd be super down if it were his Mega Man Zero incarnation, X series Zero has already seen enough play in the Vs. series compared to MMZ's one appearance in SvC Chaos.

It's because you jump on most opinions you don't agree with.

It's attitude vs attitude honestly.





So folks, chances of Dillon being added?
Enough to say he has a 'decent' chance imo, but nothing significant on the level of Inklings (before they were revealed).
 
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ColietheGoalie

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There’s no point in arguing with these people. Once they decide to attack you instead your argument they’re not going to budge.
He asked them what changes they'd like, and then when they said they change things because they didn't like how certain characters were portrayed so far he got upset with them. If anyone is being "sour", it's him.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Zero for Smash?
Which one? Zero is a very common name for fictional characters. I assume you mean the one from Mega Man.

Also congrats on your first post
 
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YoshiandToad

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For people who wants newcomers: Does anyone wants them to interact with the veterans in a spesific way? Like how Marth and Link challenged with Shulk.
I'd actually really like the idea of unique team victory animations;
examples:
Captain Toad tug of warring with Wario over a sack of coins,
Dillon and Sonic spindashing around the screen before posing together,
Isaac high fiving Bowser Jr with his Move ability and Jr.'s mech's boxing glove hand,
Dixie Kong rocking out with Diddy Kong,
Chibi Robo being collected by Olimar's Pikmin, etc.
 

Gumzilla

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I wanna see a Mario Party themed stage! Maybe it transitions from one minigame to another similar to Warioware inc!
 

RouffWestie

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I mean Ganondorf is the King of Evil who uses swords, energy balls, flies around, turns into a giant pig and many other things! Ganondorf could be so much more than a Falcon clone!
Very true. I've never touched Ganondorf in an official Smash game, but Crusade's take on him caught my attention instantly because his moveset reflects specific abilities he's been shown to have throughout the Zelda franchise. If there was ever some similar approach taken in an official Smash game, I think I would be more interested in him.
 
D

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I wanna see a Mario Party themed stage! Maybe it transitions from one minigame to another similar to Warioware inc!
I would like that, but what would be even more awesome would be a Nintendo Land stage.
Mario Party stage would be more likely, but hopefully Nintendo gives Nintendo Land a second chance by either releasing an new game, or at least making a stage of it in Smash Bros. Switch.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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I remember when the Flying Man and K. Rool Mii costumes came out they were referred to as "classic costumes" (or something along those lines) on the top left of the games menu screen where it would give updates on DLC and stuff.

Does anyone else remember that? I'm trying to find an image or video showing this, but I can't find it.
 
D

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And electricity and explosions. Why is everyone so sour and cynical?
Ganondorf actually used electricity magic in his games, specifically in OOT. Also remember that "using magic to enchance his fists" that you said? it's barely true.

The only moment in ANY Ganondorf fight in which he did that was in OOT in which he punches the ground with electricity to create a shockwave, every other time he is using magical attacks from a long distance (like shooting an orb and reflecting it when you throw it back) using weapons (Swords, tridents and the like) and the only time i can recall where he used a kick or punch was in his TP fight in which he sometimes kicks you, but that's it. Hell in TP he used the Sword of Six sages to fight Link as his main method of attacking.

That's why people are so sour and cynical about Ganondorf, because he gives the impression that his main method of combat is punches and kicks, when those never were his main focus. Ganondorf always used magic or weapons to ge the job done, barely using fistcuffs and the like. The only reason as to why he does is because he was a lazy last minute addition that used assets from a character that doesn't even come from the same franchise and has no relation and no reason outside of having a similar body structure to Captain Falcon, that's it. If K.Rool was a last minute clone of someone and used attacks that he never did in his games, we would be in the same scenario.


I don't see why Ganondorf's move set doesn't make sense. He uses dark magic combined with brute strength.
The "Ganon using magic to enchance his punhces" is not a faithful way to represent Ganondorf because he barely did that in his games, if it wasn't by that one moment in OOT your argument would not hold water. It would be like adding Sub-Zero in Smash, making him a clone of Captain Falcon and give him ice effects in his punches and kicks and suddenly he's faitful because of those ice effects.

Putting electrical and dark effects on punches is not gonna make Ganondorf faithful. Furthermore i could say that if we go by his fight in Ocarina of Time, it would make sense for him to use Magic to make himself floaty and have good jumping capabilities because he levitates in OOT, but he doesn't, but it certainly make more sense because he actually showcases this ability in his game of origin as one of his main abilities.

aaaand i know what you will say, "but you said Ganondorf enchanced his punch in that one attack so he's faithfull!" yeah i suppose by that logic if Bowser used hammers as his main method of attack in almost every move (aerials, smash attakcs and tilts) because he threw hammers against you in his boss fight in Super Mario Bros then he would be faithful.


I guarantee you that if Ganondorf was given PROPER development time back in Melee or was introduced in Brawl as a newcomer, his moveset woulnd't even be a fraction of what his moveset is in the Smash games.

I could go on but @NintendoKnight explained this in the Ganondorf thread, he has explained in detail as to why Ganondorf in Smash is just so lackluster.
 
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D

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I mean Ganondorf is the King of Evil who uses swords, energy balls, flies around, turns into a giant pig and many other things! Ganondorf could be so much more than a Falcon clone!
I disagree with this post a hundred percent.

Falcon-clone Ganondorf has earned a place in my heart.

I mean think of all the spikes, the warlock punches.... the down airs.... the down b's....... the up tilts.....
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ganondorf also outright punches Toon Link in WW, without any magical powers. He will fight down and dirty without weapons or projectiles if he wants to. Him being a brutal physical fighter is actually really faithful to him overall. It's a major characterization factor for him, even in WW, where had sympathetic traits.

There's also very few proper choices to add for projectiles. Dead Man's Volley is hardly his signature move and has been used by tons of bosses, including ones not related to Ganon/dorf. That doesn't... really leave any notable ones at all. Regular Ganon, sure, his moves still would make sense.

Honestly, updating his moves to use a few sword slashes(like his Up Air) would fit him pretty well while retaining his badass moveset that fits his personality. Likewise, enhancing his punches with magic is still magic usage. It's silly to say it's not. It's specifically Darkness and Electricity. It's honestly the only two elements he uses in canon(regular Ganon has Fire, though the Blight Ganons are more unique in that regard. And some don't really use elements like Puppet Ganon. Though I can't entirely remember if he did more than just swing at you in his first form, but the Spider and Snake forms were without elemental attacks), and unsurprisingly that's what he has in Smash. He's not what people expect, but he definitely has what he's about even then.
 

monadoboy

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What if they implemented more than one moveset per character this time? Sounds unlikely, but it would be a great way to give Link, Zelda and Ganondorf the much needed rework, while keeping their classic movesets. Many veterans could benefit from it, and it would take the wonky custom moves to the next level. That way reworked clones also keep their old moveset (Dorf, Lucina, Roy, or whoever they deside to rework).
Rex could be the poster boy for this, having a different moveset for different Blades.
 

Troykv

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For people who wants newcomers: Does anyone wants them to interact with the veterans in a spesific way? Like how Marth and Link challenged with Shulk.
I would like, it's always fun :D

The character that I would like to have in Smash are very open to be used on interactions xD
 
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Freduardo

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So folks, chances of Dillon being added?
I’m going to say decent. He was the face of the eshop for a while. He has an assist trophy. He has a Switch game coming up. Had two 3ds games.

Which apparently were not well reviewed. I am glad I played the game despite the reviews as I think it was quite well made and used the 3d effect excellently. I suppose many touch screen based games do automatically lose some points though.

That said, I thought Mallo had a shot of being in Smash 4, so I might overestimate the eshop.

And switch should really get a Pushmo game.
 
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TheDukeofDorks

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I disagree with this post a hundred percent.

Falcon-clone Ganondorf has earned a place in my heart.

I mean think of all the spikes, the warlock punches.... the down airs.... the down b's....... the up tilts.....
Couldn't all the aspects of those moves still be kept in a reworked Ganondorf? As long as the moves hit hard, are high-risk high-reward, and a few of them spike, he would still have the same play-style.

I'm mostly fine with Ganondorf's current playstyle (He's actually one of my favorite characters to use!), I just really wish his Captain Falcon roots weren't so obvious. You can keep the hit-boxes exactly the same, just change up some of the animations to use magic or a sword/trident and I'll be happy.
 

PSIguy89

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I’m genuinely curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on Dragon Quest content in this smash. It’s surprising to hear KH and Sora being thrown around far more than DQ to me. Is there a reason almost no one ever brings it up? (Plus it’s a fresh topic compared to most lol)
 
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