Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

He got memed as hard as "Pizza slicer"

Spoiler

A lot of people think Rex is pretty bad after Shulk. Probably why-

I don't see the big dip in quality. I thought Shulk looked pretty boring. Aren't people used to strange anime designs at this point?

I honestly can't tell the difference between what anime characters are supposed to be taken seriously and which ones aren't.

I mean Rex looks nothing like that character. So I don't really get it.

 

[Roberk]

Here's an interesting topic: unlockable characters. Will Sakurai go through with his original plan for Smash 4 to have no secret characters and everyone available from the get-go for Smash 5? Will it be a Smash 4 situation with only a few unlockables? Or will there be plenty of unlockables just like in Brawl, with a lot of the roster being completely under wraps?

Personally, I've always actually enjoyed unlocking plenty of characters rather than only a few. It's fun to be surprised by who's in the game that's not a starter whether they're a veteran or newcomer. I also don't wanna end up saying "that's it?" again after unlocking everyone like in Smash 4 since I expected a few more unlockables. (Plus why in the world was Wario made a secret character in Smash 4 and not someone who was a surprising return like Lucario?)

Wario was very low in priority on the roster, I think being just above Jigglypuff and subsequently the clones. Lucario is a highly marketed Pokémon character, promoted more then than most of the Smash Pokémon roster other than Pikachu and maybe Greninja. Wario is Wario, and while that has some merit his depiction in Brawl was met with only a lukewarm response.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's 2018.

Unlockable characters in a fighting game is such a dated concept to me.

Find other means of unlockables but in multiplayer games of this nature I want access to all characters right away .

Give me something else to unlock. Stages even.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What's with all the people hating characters because of their designs? Bayonetta, Rex, WARIO?! Why so judgmental?

 

[Nekoo]

What's with all the people hating characters because of their designs? Bayonetta, Rex, WARIO?! Why so judgmental?

Something something.... First thing you see and know about a character in a fighting game is it's design in the character select screen and is sometime the first thing that attract people to this characters.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

What's with all the people hating characters because of their designs? Bayonetta, Rex, WARIO?! Why so judgmental?

An appealing design is a big part of a character's marketability.

 

[Ura]

It's a shame because unlocking the characters was something I loved to do back in the 64, Melee, and Brawl days (more so 64 and Melee though). Back before I had internet connection I would always be shocked by the characters who were unlockable.

In today's social media age it's pretty much useless to do that again. Everyone will know who's in the game well before the game launches.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Why did MoH specifically say in his video that his source was female? That just makes it easier for Nintendo to find the person giving him the info (assuming this is true).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Why did MoH specifically say in his video that his source was female? That just makes it easier for Nintendo to find the person giving him the info (assuming this is true).

Apparently he hates his aunt who works at Nintendo I'm guessing.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It's 2018.

Unlockable characters in a fighting game is such a dated concept to me.

Find other means of unlockables but in multiplayer games of this nature I want access to all characters right away .

Give me something else to unlock. Stages even.

They made something for people who don't wanna earn things. They're called "cheat codes."

I'd be fine if there were maybe 12 unlockable characters. There are some characters that really should be unlocked. Particularly clones and obscure retros like Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B.

Not as appealing when they are just treated like everyone else. They are pretty special additions.

I would say, make these eight characters unlockable

• Dr. Mario
  
• Pichu
• Dark Pit
• Lucina
• Wolf O'Donnell
• Duck Hunt
• R.O.B.
• Mr. Game & Watch

And Takamaru if he becomes a newcomer. Maybe Ice Climbers if they aren't revealed immediately.

 

[Cosmic77]

Same here. The Breath of the Wild amiibo sets don't guarantee that the four Champions will receive playable representation; at best, they could hope to be assist trophies, if not mere trophy cameos.

Even though I agree with the notion that amiibo figures do virtually nothing to boost a character's chances in Smash, you're making it seem like amiibo hurt a character's chances. I doubt an amiibo figure alone would actually dissuade Sakurai from adding a character in Smash.

Realistically, an amiibo shouldn't effect a character's likeliness either way.

What's with all the people hating characters because of their designs? Bayonetta, Rex, WARIO?! Why so judgmental?

In their defense, Classic Wario >>>>> Biker Wario. It's no contest.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Wario was very low in priority on the roster, I think being just above Jigglypuff and subsequently the clones. Lucario is a highly marketed Pokémon character, promoted more then than most of the Smash Pokémon roster other than Pikachu and maybe Greninja. Wario is Wario, and while that has some merit his depiction in Brawl was met with only a lukewarm response.

Unlockable has never meant low priority. Wario was planned to be in Melee, but didn't quite make the cut because of time constraints, and was one of the first revealed newcomers in Brawl. That does not say low priority in the slightest. Besides, why would Wario of all characters be considered low priority? He's a very well known character in general and is one of the "main 8" of Mario characters (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Toad, Bowser, Wario and DK) that's in every multiplayer Mario spin-off game since Mario Kart 64. It'd be outright shocking to see him not in Smash Bros.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Unlockables aren't even that hard to unlock, and they give you a reason to actually play the game. If some characters can't be played right away, the spotlight will be more focused on the less popular starters that players don't want to play.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Even though I agree with the notion that amiibo figures do virtually nothing to boost a character's chances in Smash, you're making it seem like amiibo hurt a character's chances. I doubt an amiibo figure alone would actually dissuade Sakurai from adding a character in Smash.

Realistically, an amiibo shouldn't effect a character's likeliness either way.

Perhaps I should've rephrased my last statement then.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Anyone talked about the Master0fHyrule Battlefield leak yet?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Unlockables aren't even that hard to unlock, and they give you a reason to actually play the game. If some characters can't be played right away, the spotlight will be more focused on the less popular starters that players don't want to play.

I'm not playing games like Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, etc to unlock things. I'm playing them to sit down with some friends, goof off and have a good time.

There is legit no reason for a multi-player game to have characters as unlockables in this day and age. The reason to play a multi-player game is already stated in it's game type. You're playing it to play with multiple people. You don't need any extra incentive really.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Unlockables aren't even that hard to unlock, and they give you a reason to actually play the game. If some characters can't be played right away, the spotlight will be more focused on the less popular starters that players don't want to play.

And you have to think of kids of this generation growing up with these games.

If Mr. Game & Watch is available from the start, the reaction is gonna be "What the **** is this guy, I don't know who that is."

When you unlock him and the silhouette appears it's like "Ooo! Who's this guy?"

Unlocking a character along with their stage, music, content, etc, serves as a way to educate the player of that character's history, and intrigue them enough to read the trophy description and game appearances.

The fact that the character is unlockable implies there is something obscure about them that differentiates them from the commonly known characters. The same goes for clones, where making them unlockable establishes that they are extras.

 

[Hinata]

Anyone talked about the Master0fHyrule Battlefield leak yet?

A little bit, but there hasn't been any big discussion yet.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Here's an interesting topic: unlockable characters. Will Sakurai go through with his original plan for Smash 4 to have no secret characters and everyone available from the get-go for Smash 5? Will it be a Smash 4 situation with only a few unlockables? Or will there be plenty of unlockables just like in Brawl, with a lot of the roster being completely under wraps?

Personally, I've always actually enjoyed unlocking plenty of characters rather than only a few. It's fun to be surprised by who's in the game that's not a starter whether they're a veteran or newcomer. I also don't wanna end up saying "that's it?" again after unlocking everyone like in Smash 4 since I expected a few more unlockables. (Plus why in the world was Wario made a secret character in Smash 4 and not someone who was a surprising return like Lucario?)

I love unlocking things in Smash. Whether it's stages or fighter or trophies, I hope they keep the large amount of unlockables this time

What's with all the people hating characters because of their designs? Bayonetta, Rex, WARIO?! Why so judgmental?

People like or don't like designs. It's the same with movies, art, music... It's not being judgmental, it's just how people see things. Unless you're suggesting gamers forms some kind of hippie-commune "everything is wonderful and no one should ever be sad" mentality, people are going to dislike things. It all comes down to how they express those opinions.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I'm not playing games like Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, etc to unlock things. I'm playing them to sit down with some friends, goof off and have a good time.

There is legit no reason for a multi-player game to have characters as unlockables in this day and age. The reason to play a multi-player game is already stated in it's game type. You're playing it to play with multiple people. You don't need any extra incentive really.

Which is why one of the ways to unlock all of the characters is by just doing VS. matches. They appear after a certain number of matches, you defeat them, and you'll likely say "oh sweet we now have another character to play around with" and you'll just continue playing like usual. Besides, they'll probably have the required number of matches for facing a secret character be low again, if there are unlockables.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Anyone talked about the Master0fHyrule Battlefield leak yet?

Oh? What's that one?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Just because someone is someone that a user of the game might not know doesn't mean they won't pick them. The best way to educate a person about something is to have it right in their face. Not hiding it behind a lock.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm not playing games like Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, etc to unlock things. I'm playing them to sit down with some friends, goof off and have a good time.

One of the biggest flaws with Super Smash Bros. for Wii U was it's lack of Single Player content. Some people don't have friends to sit down with and goof off and some people don't want to.

Some want to have a private experience with the game. Or maybe with their family. They like discovering things.

It's a very personal and unique experience that can only be done as well as it's done in Super Smash Bros. That's probably why Sakurai changed his mind and kept the presence of unlockable characters. As little as there may be.

There is legit no reason for a multi-player game to have characters as unlockables in this day and age. The reason to play a multi-player game is already stated in it's game type. You're playing it to play with multiple people. You don't need any extra incentive really.

If that were true, there wouldn't be any single player modes. There's only eight unlockable characters in Smash for Wii U. I think you can manage.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Oh? What's that one?

Nevermind, I saw discussion on it a few pages back.

I can give this leak credit for being better than all the text ones we've gotten and that college project with Spring Man.

As if E3 can't hurry up.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I'm not playing games like Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, etc to unlock things. I'm playing them to sit down with some friends, goof off and have a good time.

There is legit no reason for a multi-player game to have characters as unlockables in this day and age. The reason to play a multi-player game is already stated in it's game type. You're playing it to play with multiple people. You don't need any extra incentive really.

Now it's my turn to be annoyed at one of YOUR opinions

For me, I LOVE unlocking characters. As much fun as multi-player is, I don't have people around 24/7 to play with, so having unlockables is a great solo play motivator. And even then, having a buddy over and completing events/modes or fighting vs matches to try and unlock things is a lot of fun

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Just because someone is someone that a user of the game might not know doesn't mean they won't pick them.

Nobody said that. But, a lot of characters get used less when there's too many to begin with.

The best way to educate a person about something is to have it right in their face.

No. No it is not. If that were true, school would be a cake walk.

Not hiding it behind a lock.

The best way to educate someone is to interest them in what they are supposed to be learning. Not to hide it in plain sight.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

School is legit just what you said. You place the subject in front of the students face. Then you interest them in it by teaching them about it. School isn't optional outside of college. To get anywhere in life you at least have to have a HS diploma.

Put R.O.B. on the front page of the character select unlocked. You get a person curious. They select him. They go to Wiki on their cellphone and look him up.

Boom. You've educated someone. Because that is how this world works now. When someone is curious about something? We whip out our phone and google or ask Siri about it.

 

[92MilesPrower]

The element of surprise is powerful, and the driving force behind unlockable characters. It's not fun to see the entire roster from the get-go and see X character is on there and be like "oh cool they're in this game". A person's attention to a character is really drawn in when they suddenly appear out of nowhere rather than just "being" there without fanfare. The surprise factor of new characters was emphasized in the Smash 4 trailers, with plenty of people being surprised by these reveals, even if most were starter characters. The same holds true for unlockables even if they're veterans.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You seem to think there's any element of surprise to an unlockable.

There isn't. Because as I said in this day and age. Everyone is attached to the internet in some form. Even if you lock someone. The first thing a person is going to do most likely is. They'll unlock one person. Maybe be shocked then go ''Gee, I wonder who else is in this game and locked."

And google away it is.

It's an old dated concept with no real surprise anymore.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Which is why one of the ways to unlock all of the characters is by just doing VS. matches. They appear after a certain number of matches, you defeat them, and you'll likely say "oh sweet we now have another character to play around with" and you'll just continue playing like usual. Besides, they'll probably have the required number of matches for facing a secret character be low again, if there are unlockables.

With smash Wii u it took up to 100 matches to unlock everyone. Sure that's not like the level of Melee where it was ridiculous , but that's still a genuine large amount for if you play it first day with all your friends.

I don't expect them to take out Unlocked fighters, but I expect it to be as little as possible like last time. Really it's just an opinnion of how you play. When smash Wii u came out I immediately hopped into 8 player smash with all my college friends so I'm glad most of the cast was unlocked. I might not be doing 8 player smash this time on release night, but I'd still like to play with as much of the cast as possible.

Defintely agree that secret characters are a nostalgic feeling we can never get back.

The surprise factor of new characters was emphasized in the Smash 4 trailers, with plenty of people being surprised by these reveals, even if most were starter characters. The same holds true for unlockables even if they're veterans.

This is basically the point I am making (and I think Human Disaster). Trailers were used because they could surprise people. Unlocked characters don't surprise people anymore. Basically compare my reaction to Smash 4 trailers to the ESRB leak where all the unlocks were revealed. Much more excited by the trailers.

 

[Cosmic77]

Coming from someone who actually loves the tedious journey to collect over 700 different trophies, I think unlockable characters are a much watered-down yet bigger incentive for people to keep playing the game. Just imagine how exciting it must be for a little kid with no prior knowledge of Smash to sit down and unlock Mr. Game and Watch, this cool, old-timey character that he never even heard of before. It's fun, and it gives you an incentive to keep playing so you can unlock more. Having everything unlocked from the get-go is bound to make a newbie lose interest much faster than if there were some hidden characters.

Yeah, technology kinda ruins the mystery for most people nowadays, but that doesn't mean unlockable characters should be scrapped entirely. Truth is, there's still going to be thousands of people who weren't involved in Smash speculation enough to know which characters are on the roster. But even if there weren't, there's gonna be those weird people out there who actually like the idea of unlocking characters they already know about. I'll probably know the entire Smash Switch roster by heart before the game even comes out, but I guarantee you I'll have a lot of fun discovering what I need to do to unlock some of my favorite characters.

 

[Bowserlick]

The starting rosters should be the more popular and known characters. These characters drive sales and should be available from the start.

More obscure characters (retro/hardware/region exclusive) might be better off as unlockables. This way there is an exciting element added to them for the general gamer populace.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And whose to say there's not some asshole out there in the world who is going to see that say:

Wolf
R.O.B.
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Takamaru
Dr. Mario

are all unlockable once he unlocks say Ice Climbers first. He googles on his phone sees whose left and he just doesn't give a **** anymore about unlocking anyone because 'I don't know these people."

It's a two way street. You want to protect this concept out of nostalgia but it just is a concept that doesn't work anymore.

 

[Sage of Ice]

unlockables are fun for me! it's satisfying to open up new options, even when the option itself isn't all that exciting to me. but i could do without it if there's a decent single-player campaign, at least let me feel like i'm accomplishing something

i don't really have anyone to play with locally, and online matchups tend to be either taunt parties or way-out-of-my-league competitive types. stuff i can do by myself is a big deal

Everyone's favorite clone from Melee, Young Link, limps to eighth place. To keep it simple, ya'll don't think he's ever coming back.

i thought the biggest reason he wasn't "coming back" was that he never left in the first place? Big Link got a visual overhaul, so did Small Link. he's just Toonier now.

 

[lltacx]

Can we address how silly it is that anyone thinks that a character having an amiibo boosts their chances?
Shovel knight and Solaire are not going to be in this game. Having a game on a Nintendo console doesn’t make you that much more likely either like Skyrim or Doom.
It’s not like amiibos are a smash exclusive thing either, I just never understood this mindset.

Now that you mention it, they made a whole set of Amiibo's for every character in smash, this kind of makes me think (well hope atleast) that there will be no cuts?

I wonder what would happen if i used my Mewtwo Amiibo on Smash Switch if Mewtwo was cut (Really hope that never happens again)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

School is legit just what you said. You place the subject in front of the students face. Then you interest them in it by teaching them about it.

And that's why people struggle with school. You sit them down in front of some **** they don't care about and shove it in their face.

Kind of like Skyward Sword.

Put R.O.B. on the front page of the character select unlocked. You get a person curious. They select him. They go to Wiki on their cellphone and look him up.

Maybe. But, some people might not care. If a little kid can choose between Mr. Game & Watch and Mario, they will probably pick Mario. It's when Mr. Game & Watch suddenly appears that they begin to notice him.

Kids have a short attention span and when you dangle a brand new toy in their face, they are unable to resist.

Boom. You've educated someone. Because that is how this world works now. When someone is curious about something? We whip out our phone and google or ask Siri about it.

That's assuming they care enough to google something in the first place. Just because knowledge is easy to obtain doesn't mean people will go out of their way to obtain it. A lot of times they will just dismiss it and just say "Don't know, don't care."

It's the game's job to keep you invested and teach you things without shoving tutorials down your throat or forcing you to use Google.

Earning something is the best way to learn something in a video game. Not having it handed to you like it's anything else.

If you gave someone every single item in Ocarina of Time from the start, it's going to overwhelm them with a bunch of crap they don't understand. The items are paced out and accompanied by opportunities to experiment with their capabilities.

Breath of The Wild is similar to Super Smash Bros for Wii U in that vain. Just like there are few unlockable characters in SSB4 and you earn them quickly, there are few rune items in Breath of The Wild, and you earn them quickly.

But, it's not all given to you at once. When you give the player everything from the start, they no longer have new toys to find. Chris O'Neill from Oneyplays described Super Mario Odyssey's capture ability in a similar vein that I really liked. He said that Nintendo needs to have games that give you more toys to play with.

And hey, isn't that what Super Smash Bros has been about since the beginning?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I say still have unlockable characters, but perhaps in-game cheats to easily unlock them right away. Same with stages and if applicable, items for multiplayer. Stuff like that. It's nice for tourneys.

Anyway, the only thing that this leak mentioned that wasn't entirely safe at best was "this is a new game", since that may or may not be the case. The rest isn't rocket science. At least they provided some images, not that it makes me believe the leak either.

 

[92MilesPrower]

You seem to think there's any element of surprise to an unlockable.

There isn't. Because as I said in this day and age. Everyone is attached to the internet in some form. Even if you lock someone. The first thing a person is going to do most likely is. They'll unlock one person. Maybe be shocked then go ''Gee, I wonder who else is in this game and locked."

And google away it is.

It's an old dated concept with no real surprise anymore.

You're assuming that everyone in the world likes to spoil things for themselves. Why would many people do that to themselves? It just ruins the fun of going into things completely blind. How do you think a Marvel fan would feel after getting the entirety of Avengers Infinity War spoiled to them after trying to avoid spoilers for an entire week before seeing the movie themself?

This is basically the point I am making (and I think Human Disaster). Trailers were used because they could surprise people. Unlocked characters don't surprise people anymore. Basically compare my reaction to Smash 4 trailers to the ESRB leak where all the unlocks were revealed. Much more excited by the trailers.

The reason why you weren't surprised by the leak is because it was a leak. The game was spoiled for you, with the leak showing regular gameplay and screenshots of stuff that was supposed to be surprising for you. You saw the leaks and went into the game with the knowledge that Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, and the other unlockables were in the game without being surprised by a trailer showing them appearing out of nowhere like Greninja and Mega Man, or just them showing up out of nowhere before they even had trailers.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You seem to think there's any element of surprise to an unlockable.

There isn't. Because as I said in this day and age. Everyone is attached to the internet in some form. Even if you lock someone. The first thing a person is going to do most likely is. They'll unlock one person. Maybe be shocked then go ''Gee, I wonder who else is in this game and locked."

And google away it is.

It's an old dated concept with no real surprise anymore.

You're just arguing from your perspective of not caring about anything. Not everyone sees it the same way you do. Some people have standards and don't deliberately spoil things for themselves because they actually care about being surprised. That's why people were so upset about the leak that revealed the remaining characters and some people deliberately avoided looking at it.

Why do you think people anticipate character trailers?

For stuff like that. Ever since Sakurai started doing character trailers, nothing is more satisfying than hearing and seeing this.

It's not an outdated concept. Some people don't look up let's plays and secrets before going out to buy the game. Especially not little kids.

And even if the surprise factor isn't there, the earning factor still is, which many people think is important.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Legitimate serious question to those saying unlockables can be secret and surprising? How did you play smash Wii u (or 3DS) did you just play blindly not knowing even how to unlock the characters?

I seriously mean this, because if you followed any Nintendo new or even YouTube that characters would have been spoiled. Also I can't phatom how you unlocked characters without knowing how.

Not arguing btw literally asking.